GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: GolfTi on 19 November 2010, 22:20
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Winter tyres in the UK....
Why not?
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It can only be a good thang to have winter tyres on a GTI or GTD :smiley:
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Already fitted.
And looking at the weather forecast for the next week or so, I suspect I'll be showing signs of smugness soon. :grin:
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Tuesday.
I already had one morning of slithering all over the damn road, that's enough.
Rolfe.
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Snows coming next week up here so they say so mine are now on. :evil:
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Snoops: Are your winter ones on the Monzas? Which tyres? If you have them on new wheels, pictures please.
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There on another set of monza 17s :smiley:
http://www.vredestein.com/Banden_Bandtypes.asp?BandgroepID=2&BandtoepassingID=0&BandtypeID=7&PageID=1&UserSessionID=73#
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There on another set of monza 17s :smiley:
You kept that quiet. :huh:
Which tyres, pray?
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post edited, you have pm.
I had to keep it quiet everyone kepts buying the alloys out there for sale. :grin:
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Fitted last weekend :smiley:
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...and now the roll call of wise men (and laydeez...sorry Amanda!) starts. :smiley:
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I'm still thinking about it, but was interested to see that so many people think they are a waste of money.
If you buy a cheap set of second hand wheels, thats all the real cost will be. The cost of the tyres don't really factor into it, because while you are using your winter ones. you're not wearing your others out.
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I find it quite amazing that people who live in the colder parts of the country think winter tyres are a waste of time.
I hope they get badly stuck in the snow and ice again this year. But fools never learn and will continue to cause disruption for other sensible drivers, damage their own cars plus those of others, thereby causing an increase in all our insurance premiums.
Selfish, silly, sods. :angry:
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no winter tyres for me. just driver skill is all i have ever needed in the past :wink:
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no winter tyres for me. just driver skill is all i have ever needed in the past :wink:
Bloody electronics don't allow for proper driver skill anymore.
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I've never had the misfortune to have been involved in a car accident.
I know a few people who have and it can ruin lives.
For me, anything that improves safety, especially on a car like the GTI, is a good thing. :nerd:
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I was the only person who managed to get out of the company car park earlier this year :evil: (without even trying i may add) That was simply because i had winter tyres on and a bit experience of snow i expect :grin: . I had to push and dig the rest out :undecided: Thats jinkst it for this year :grin:
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no winter tyres for me. just driver skill is all i have ever needed in the past :wink:
Thread hijack: Were you not coming down this week end to London? :smiley:
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no winter tyres for me. just driver skill is all i have ever needed in the past :wink:
Thread hijack: Were you not coming down this week end to London? :smiley:
no. im going to nottingham tomorrow so not point. maybe down next week though :wink:
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no winter tyres for me. just driver skill is all i have ever needed in the past :wink:
Thread hijack: Were you not coming down this week end to London? :smiley:
no. im going to nottingham tomorrow so not point. maybe down next week though :wink:
OK then. I feel dumped. :cry:
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I really really want/need a set of winter tyres but nobody in this part of Yorkshire seems to have the slightest inkling of what I am after. After last winters snow I have to have good rubber on my bottom or I shall slip in and out of all kinds of bother :laugh:
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I really really want/need a set of winter tyres but nobody in this part of Yorkshire seems to have the slightest inkling of what I am after. After last winters snow I have to have good rubber on my bottom or I shall slip in and out of all kinds of bother :laugh:
Kwikfit, don't seem to have the Conti 830Ps on their website anymore.
I am sure if you go onto the mytyres site, which I have already posted especially for thee, thou can type-in thy postcode and find a tyre fitting station.
Also, try blackcircles and etyres, though neither of them seem to have anything.
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I really really want/need a set of winter tyres but nobody in this part of Yorkshire seems to have the slightest inkling of what I am after. After last winters snow I have to have good rubber on my bottom or I shall slip in and out of all kinds of bother :laugh:
MyTyres will send suitable winter tyres to the local dealer. My Dad has just had some sent to a local place for Mothers new Fabia. You don't have to rely on the knowledge of the local numpties...just order what you want and let the local monkeys fit the big black round things.
I just sourced a set of VAG wheels to fit, gave them a clean up, powder coated them and he picked the nearest tyre place to fit them.
Or, the likes of Montys Wheels will supply complete packages...you pick the wheels and they'll price up with winter tyres of your choice...all delivered, balanced and ready to go. They often have some decent OEM wheels to pick from too.
For example:
VW Torontos:
http://www.montyswheelsandtyres.com/product.asp?numPageStartPosition=1&P_ID=1055&strPageHistory=cat&strKeywords=&strSearchCriteria=&PT_ID=98
At a guess, £600ish delivered with decent winter tyres fitted. (£485 with summer Falkens).
These would be ideal for you Amanda...16" and narrower tread, to give as much grip and protection as possible...without looking too silly.
My old man runs 16s on his Mk5 in winter and it doesn't look too bad.
For the roads you are on, I'd want narrower tread and higher sidewalls...you have to drive to work. I don't. If the snow is THAT deep, i'll be staying in the house!
Either MyTyres or BlackCircles (can't remember which) are offering a winter tyre + steel wheel package pretty cheap.
Personally, I'd rather source alloys...but if it's performance over looks for the winter...there's a cheap option.
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Either MyTyres or BlackCircles (can't remember which) are offering a winter tyre + steel wheel package pretty cheap.
Personally, I'd rather source alloys...but if it's performance over looks for the winter...there's a cheap option.
I know mytyres did them last year as i got my dad some.
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Here Gizzy:
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=65936867.110.16511&typ=R-172378&ranzahl=4&Breite=225&Quer=40&Felge=18&Speed=V&weiter=0&kategorie=1&Ang_pro_Seite=10&rf=1&Transport=P&F_F=1&dsco=110&sowigan=Wi
Stop dithering and get your arse protected. ASAP :kiss:
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To all the southerners:
This is what winter can be like north of Watford:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnV2Hebt57s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnV2Hebt57s)
If its like this, and you want to drive to work...I'd suggest you avoid 18" tyres - winter or otherwise.
You can spend as much as you weant, on any brand you want...but if it gets bad, and you really need them...205 wide will be better than 225 wide.
This should be considered...looks vs performance, etc.
The approved 205/55/16 option would be a better bet.
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Penguin country. :sick:
No thanks. :smug:
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Clear and frost-free night here with Wolfgang gleaming outside my front door.
Oh, what it is to live in London, England. :tongue:
Glen, be a good laddie and help the lassie (Amanda). I am too far away to take good care of her.
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Clear and frost-free night here with Wolfgang gleaming outside my front door.
Oh, what it is to live in London, England. :tongue:
No wonder it's frost free...the smog and pollution assure you of a thermal blanket.
I prefer clean, fresh air...frost on not. :grin:
Glen, be a good laddie and help the lassie (Amanda). I am too far away to take good care of her.
I'd be glad to...
I am trying to help...
But being 150 miles out from the mainland has it's limitations. I'm good...but I can't walk on water.
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Dear all
Your kind suggestions and advice much appreciated.
Going to get something sorted out on Monday and will keep you posted.
Thanks
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To all the southerners:
This is what winter can be like north of Watford:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnV2Hebt57s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnV2Hebt57s)
If its like this, and you want to drive to work...I'd suggest you avoid 18" tyres - winter or otherwise.
You can spend as much as you weant, on any brand you want...but if it gets bad, and you really need them...205 wide will be better than 225 wide.
This should be considered...looks vs performance, etc.
The approved 205/55/16 option would be a better bet.
So true its why our other car has winter 205x55x16 and my other car has much much narrower tyres. The mk6 is just too low on the front with too much power for me to risk it in worse conditions.
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To all the southerners:
This is what winter can be like north of Watford:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnV2Hebt57s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnV2Hebt57s)
If its like this, and you want to drive to work...I'd suggest you avoid 18" tyres - winter or otherwise.
You can spend as much as you weant, on any brand you want...but if it gets bad, and you really need them...205 wide will be better than 225 wide.
This should be considered...looks vs performance, etc.
The approved 205/55/16 option would be a better bet.
So true its why our other car has winter 205x55x16 and my other car has much much narrower tyres. The mk6 is just too low on the front with too much power for me to risk it in worse conditions.
The Lion Inn at Blakey is only about 15minutes away from me across the moors over which I have to drive everyday. last winter it was a total nightmare so must get some winter tyres on very soon. Am going to try some sights on Monday will keep everyone posted.
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Gizzy: For Asker's sake rubber up. Really shockingly dangerous without winter boots. :kiss:
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Anyone know the retail or trade price of the 6x16 ET50 Steelies?
Seriously considering winter tyres for the Golf
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I have asked my wonderful tyre supplier to try and source Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3s in 225/40 R18 95W. This is the only winter tyre I am willing to buy.
I will also purchase in Jan the Conti 5Ps.
I need to get rid of the Bridgestones ASAP.
Oh, I'll need to buy some more Monza Shadows too.
Selling life and limb for the next few weeks to facilitate this!
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Go to mytyres dot com and on the menu on the left choose the option for "Steel Wheels with Tyres" You can buy 16" winter tyres including steel wheels in the size you need (assuming you have a GTI)
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Kwik fit have the 18" winter contis at £162 or the 17"s at £147 again. Fitted.
Seems as though they were not available for a while.
Also some much cheaper Marangoni winter tyres.
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Don't spare pennies when it comes to you and your family life!
Got the winter continental tyres fitted today at Kwikfit and inflated with nitrogen!
Compare with the summer Bridestone RE050A, it is much quieter and the most surprising is the limo-like ride. The steering feel is not as good but I think it will need a few hundred miles to bed in!
Outside temperature in Liverpool this lunchtime 6 degree---perrfect timing!
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Every non shod Bridgestone Golf has a great ride. I can only imagine how much better this is with the winter tyres.
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So what are the best winter tyre's i'm still not sure myself? :undecided:
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So what are the best winter tyre's i'm still not sure myself? :undecided:
For 225/40 R18 W rated winter tyres it has to be the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3s or the Vertesteins. Both seem impossible to find at present. They were available from mytyres a short time ago, but have been removed from their webpage for now. The Michelins are still available in 235/40 R18 95W XL for £269.50! :sick:
For V rated tyres Continental WinterContact TS 830P 225/40 R18 92V XL for £181.50 or cheaper from Kwikfit (I am informed for approx £163) are highly rated and possibly the best.
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I guess I'm not picky enough, but I just asked my garage man to find me some winter tyres or wheels or whatever, and he's going to fir them when the car is serviced on Tuesday. He says he thinks doing the front wheels only is enough. I'll let you know how I get on!
Rolfe.
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Don't do the front wheels only as the car will have different traction levels front to back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAIa6B8QVFQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCyiBoTxCao&feature=related
A bit OTT as is normally the case in USA videos but you'll get the idea
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The Lion Inn at Blakey is only about 15minutes away from me across the moors over which I have to drive everyday. last winter it was a total nightmare so must get some winter tyres on very soon. Am going to try some sights on Monday will keep everyone posted.
This I know!
That's why I posted the link...to educate those second guessing you.
My boss lives in near there too.
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I guess I'm not picky enough, but I just asked my garage man to find me some winter tyres or wheels or whatever, and he's going to fir them when the car is serviced on Tuesday. He says he thinks doing the front wheels only is enough. I'll let you know how I get on!
Rolfe.
I don't think you are being picky...
ANY proper winter tyre is going to be streets ahead of ANY summer tyre.
Sure, there will be some winter tyres better than others, but considering it's the compound that's the important bit...and assuming most will be driving more slowly in the bad weather anyway, ANY winter tyre is going to be a huge improvement.
My father runs Avon Ice Tourings, and likes them...a mate didn't like them - both on 170TDI Mk5 Golfs.
I've used Toyo Snowprox, Pirelli Snowsomething-or-others and Vredestein Wintrac Extremes and not found any especially better than any other...but all vastly better than the summer tyres.
Vredestein Wintrac Extremes vastly better than Goodyear Eagle F1s
Pirelli Snowsomething-or-others vastly better than Continental SportContact 2s
Toyo Snowprox vastly better than Toyo Proxes T1-Rs
i've only ever run a full set though...I don't fancy loosing the rear end.
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I guess I'm not picky enough, but I just asked my garage man to find me some winter tyres or wheels or whatever, and he's going to fir them when the car is serviced on Tuesday. He says he thinks doing the front wheels only is enough. I'll let you know how I get on!
Rolfe.
I don't think you are being picky...
ANY proper winter tyre is going to be streets ahead of ANY summer tyre.
Sure, there will be some winter tyres better than others, but considering it's the compound that's the important bit...and assuming most will be driving more slowly in the bad weather anyway, ANY winter tyre is going to be a huge improvement.
My father runs Avon Ice Tourings, and likes them...a mate didn't like them - both on 170TDI Mk5 Golfs.
I've used Toyo Snowprox, Pirelli Snowsomething-or-others and Vredestein Wintrac Extremes and not found any especially better than any other...but all vastly better than the summer tyres.
Vredestein Wintrac Extremes vastly better than Goodyear Eagle F1s
Pirelli Snowsomething-or-others vastly better than Continental SportContact 2s
Toyo Snowprox vastly better than Toyo Proxes T1-Rs
i've only ever run a full set though...I don't fancy loosing the rear end.
That's my take on it as well, but I'd steer clear of the very, very cheap ones. Looking at the moment for a set for my wifes car as well. 4°C here this afternoon and chucking it down. Could feel the front of her car understeering in the conditions. I'm completely sold on them now I have them on the Golf - should be law!
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Right on mytyres website they have a set of 4 steelies 5 hole with Vredstein snow thingies size 205/55R16 91T for the set of 4 £546.40. all you guys out there up on these things are they gonna be ok on my GTI?
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So what are the best winter tyre's i'm still not sure myself? :undecided:
The german ADAC has done a test of winter tyres in the size 225/45 17. Maybe this can help you choose.
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2010_Winterreifen_Test_225_45_R17.aspx?ComponentId=40334&SourcePageId=31821 (http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/winterreifen/2010_Winterreifen_Test_225_45_R17.aspx?ComponentId=40334&SourcePageId=31821)
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Right on mytyres website they have a set of 4 steelies 5 hole with Vredstein snow thingies size 205/55R16 91T for the set of 4 £546.40. all you guys out there up on these things are they gonna be ok on my GTI?
Yep that's the size I a few in the USA running on the Mk6 GTI.
I checked the price with VW for the official 16" snow steelies in Rally black and they are £62 each. Looks like the Vreds are around £85 for the wintrac3's in this size, so that's a pretty good price :smiley:
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Right on mytyres website they have a set of 4 steelies 5 hole with Vredstein snow thingies size 205/55R16 91T for the set of 4 £546.40. all you guys out there up on these things are they gonna be ok on my GTI?
Yep that's the size I a few in the USA running on the Mk6 GTI.
I checked the price with VW for the official 16" snow steelies in Rally black and they are £62 each. Looks like the Vreds are around £85 for the wintrac3's in this size, so that's a pretty good price :smiley:
Cheers
Will try and order tomorrow.
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Right on mytyres website they have a set of 4 steelies 5 hole with Vredstein snow thingies size 205/55R16 91T for the set of 4 £546.40. all you guys out there up on these things are they gonna be ok on my GTI?
Have you tried emailing MontysWheels?
You can get OEM alloys with tyres for little more, I'd have thought.
Avon IceTourings are reasonable in that size, IIRC.
Alloys will always look better than steels...and the performance will be the same, if you stick to the same tyre size.
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Gizzy: I agree with Ess_Three. Try and get alloys rather than ugly steels. Just because there is snow, it does not mean you have to make Bonnie look like a tramp.
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Right on mytyres website they have a set of 4 steelies 5 hole with Vredstein snow thingies size 205/55R16 91T for the set of 4 £546.40. all you guys out there up on these things are they gonna be ok on my GTI?
Have you tried emailing MontysWheels?
You can get OEM alloys with tyres for little more, I'd have thought.
Avon IceTourings are reasonable in that size, IIRC.
Alloys will always look better than steels...and the performance will be the same, if you stick to the same tyre size.
Ok Glen will do thanks.
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Gizzy: I agree with Ess_Three. Try and get alloys rather than ugly steels. Just because there is snow, it does not mean you have to make Bonnie look like a tramp.
:grin: :grin:
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At least you won't worry about cleaning them
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/grunt00002/JA010923.jpg)
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Or small alloys.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zDZ7whVFF88/TMR4JK2gKBI/AAAAAAAABgc/usP7CG1kh9o/s800/P1010252.JPG)
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Gizzy: MAW73 (where is he?) got some 18" Black Monza Shadows for £350, set of four. You could put some Conti 830Ps on these.
Bonnie will look very stealthy and stylish IMO.
Cost a bit more I must admit. Style and substance will be well served.
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Gizzy: MAW73 (where is he?) got some 18" Black Monza Shadows for £350, set of four. You could put some Conti 830Ps on these.
Asker, I understand you atre a southerner, and therefore has no understanding of the depth of snow Amanda is likely to find, during 'winter' (that's the time you southerners only hear about on the news) on her drive to work.
Believe me, I would NOT want 18" wheels with 225 wide tyres in conditions as shown in the YouTube clip I posted...and that location was only a handful of miles from where she lives.
If you NEED to go to work, and want MAXIMUM winter performance in snow as well as the cold...forget 18" 225 wide tyres.
Take the advice of VW and fit the wheels and tyres approved for arctic conditions...they will offer better protection and better grip in the proper bad stuff.
We all know 18s look better...but looking better when heading to work at 7am with 4" of snow on the roads, isn't the prime concern.
Amanda has already conveyed her lack of confidence in driving in snow...so my advice would be to give her the best possible chance of successfully getting to work safely, with the best grip possible, and the most protection from doing wheel/suspension damage should a wee slide occur.
18" wheels look far better - I know, my winter wheels are 18" but I don't have to drive to work, and I'll not be going out in the snow - but a bent Golf and a dent in confidence looks far worse.
Food for thought...
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I agree with you Ess_Three.
If Amanda as you say is driving in Arctic conditions, then 16" or 17"(max) is the order of the day. But at least she should get appropriate alloys, as you have also suggested.
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I agree with you Ess_Three.
:grin:
We are making progress!
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(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/grunt00002/JA010923.jpg)
19" black alloys :evil: well they look the same anyway :grin:
I actually quite like that look. :smiley:
A car with steel wheels looks far better than a car parked in a lamp-post.
Anyone that runs polished lacquered wheels in snowy winter conditions is simply nuts imo.
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A car with steel wheels looks far better than a car parked in a lamp-post.
Amen to that.
Anyone that runs polished lacquered wheels in snowy winter conditions is simply nuts imo.
Amen to that too.
Polished lacquered wheels + ice & snow + grip = recipe for white worm by Spring.
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I've decided going to go with some OEM alloys in 16". To be honest in winter I don't give a toss about looks, I'd rather get where I'm going alive than arriving at the pearly gates some years too early. :grin:
I thank you all for your advice especially Glen who knows what he's on about. I once got caught in a snowdrift out at Insch in a Vauxhall Nova, it was a bloody nightmare tho that had narrow tyres on if I remember correctly and so mad life a tad easier.
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Gizzywizzy, take the speed rating up from "T" to "H". H is the VW recommended speed rating for the GTI on 16"
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Gizzywizzy, take the speed rating up from "T" to "H". H is the VW recommended speed rating for the GTI on 16"
Righto thanks.
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I've decided going to go with some OEM alloys in 16". To be honest in winter I don't give a toss about looks, I'd rather get where I'm going alive than arriving at the pearly gates some years too early. :grin:
Wise words...
I thank you all for your advice especially Glen who knows what he's on about.
You are too kind. I try... :wink:
I once got caught in a snowdrift out at Insch in a Vauxhall Nova, it was a bloody nightmare tho that had narrow tyres on if I remember correctly and so mad life a tad easier.
Insch?
Not Insch, Aberdeenshire surely?
Nova...there was a car! I loved mine...it was 20 years ago mind.
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I've decided going to go with some OEM alloys in 16". To be honest in winter I don't give a toss about looks, I'd rather get where I'm going alive than arriving at the pearly gates some years too early. :grin:
Wise words...
I thank you all for your advice especially Glen who knows what he's on about.
You are too kind. I try... :wink:
I once got caught in a snowdrift out at Insch in a Vauxhall Nova, it was a bloody nightmare tho that had narrow tyres on if I remember correctly and so mad life a tad easier.
Insch?
Not Insch, Aberdeenshire surely?
Nova...there was a car! I loved mine...it was 20 years ago mind.
Yes Insch in Aberdeenshire, father in law at the time lived at Old Rayne and we often spent time there, sister in law still lives in Kingsgate so I still have my ties with the Granite city.
It is also about 20 years since I bombed around in my little 1.2 Nova, it was a nippy little bugger for its time.
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Bloody Hell: My first car was a dark blue Nova in the mid-seventies!
So much in common with you guys but so far apart. :sad: :cry: :wink: :kiss:
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Bloody Hell: My first car was a dark blue Nova in the mid-seventies!
So much in common with you guys but so far apart. :sad: :cry: :wink: :kiss:
LOL, for it's time the Nova was a grand little car.
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Well my main winter car the sh!tsu now has its 145x80x13 winter tyres on ready for the snow starting tonight. Come on the snow :evil: (sh!tsu is why the mk6 has 17" winter tyres on and not 16s :wink:)
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At least you won't worry about cleaning them
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/grunt00002/JA010923.jpg)
:cool: I like these. Any 3 door pics?
I think they would look good with my roof bars / ski box / and mountain bikes on the roof. :cool: Winter Explorer Look. :nerd:
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Yes Insch in Aberdeenshire, father in law at the time lived at Old Rayne and we often spent time there, sister in law still lives in Kingsgate so I still have my ties with the Granite city.
It is also about 20 years since I bombed around in my little 1.2 Nova, it was a nippy little bugger for its time.
Happy days...I had a mighty 1.0 in a fetching shade of burgundy then a 1.4 SR beast, in grey.
My mate 'Andy fae Insch' had a red 1.2.
Fancy you knowing that area...Ellon had it's fair share of Nova boys too.
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Yes Insch in Aberdeenshire, father in law at the time lived at Old Rayne and we often spent time there, sister in law still lives in Kingsgate so I still have my ties with the Granite city.
It is also about 20 years since I bombed around in my little 1.2 Nova, it was a nippy little bugger for its time.
Happy days...I had a mighty 1.0 in a fetching shade of burgundy then a 1.4 SR beast, in grey.
My mate 'Andy fae Insch' had a red 1.2.
Fancy you knowing that area...Ellon had it's fair share of Nova boys too.
Aye well it's a small world. Having been born in Glasgow it was not too much of a hop to visit the inlaws in Aberdeen. Not so easy now from North Yorkshire. :grin:
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Stop it you Glemandas. :shocked:
I am getting very jealous. :angry:
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Got winter setups complete / ordered today.
205 55 16's for the otherhalfs posh Golf on cheap OEM alloys and some 17's for mine, again on some cheap OEM alloys (as 16's won't fit over my front brakes).
Gone for ContiWinter's for both :smiley:
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At least you won't worry about cleaning them
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/grunt00002/JA010923.jpg)
those wheels look well badass i love it!
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My first car was a dark blue Nova in the mid-seventies!
A Nova in the seventies???
Back on topic, for people who have bought steel and tyre packages from Mytyres, do you need different bolts for the steel wheels?
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http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?board=16.0
The Mk5 guys are doing the winter tyre thing too. :smiley:
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Back off topic.
Listen dubber dear, there was life in the seventies. Anyway, we will outlive you young, unhealthy things with ease. :tongue:
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Bloody hell :angry: I am totally confused now. Went down to the local tyre centre, where the chap has always been brilliant with my tyre choices etc.
He stated that I do not need to change my wheels, that he can get me a decent set of winter tyres in my size and that they will be more than adequate.
God help us I don't know what to do now.
Giz
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Bloody hell :angry: I am totally confused now. Went down to the local tyre centre, where the chap has always been brilliant with my tyre choices etc.
He stated that I do not need to change my wheels, that he can get me a decent set of winter tyres in my size and that they will be more than adequate.
God help us I don't know what to do now.
Giz
Was it Kwick Sh*T that said that?
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Back off topic.
Listen dubber dear, there was life in the seventies. Anyway, we will outlive you young, unhealthy things with ease. :tongue:
I was born in 1969 so I do remember most of the 70's. One thing I dont remember seeing until 1982 was a Vauxhall Nova.
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Dubber, how right you are. 'The child is father of the man'.
It was a Viva. Thanks for jolting my memory! :grin:
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Amanda dear:
Bloody snow. Causes so much hassle.
Which tyres did he recommend?
If you are going to use the Monza Shadows, buy Continental 830Ps V rated.
Glen and Snoopy will not be best pleased. :rolleyes:
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Bloody hell :angry: I am totally confused now. Went down to the local tyre centre, where the chap has always been brilliant with my tyre choices etc.
He stated that I do not need to change my wheels, that he can get me a decent set of winter tyres in my size and that they will be more than adequate.
God help us I don't know what to do now.
Giz
There is no harm in having a wheel and tyre package. I reckon a set of tyres should last at least 3 winters. It would be far easier (and free) to swap your wheels over before and after the winter, than it would to have to go the the tyre fitters each time. A set of tyres with wheels inside them won't take up any more space in your garage than tyres alone either.
As I've said before, there is only a very small actual cost in doing this as you can only wear out one set of tyres at a time. One thing no one has answered yet is do steel wheels require different wheels bolts to alloys?
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As I've said before, there is only a very small actual cost in doing this as you can only wear out one set of tyres at a time. One thing no one has answered yet is do steel wheels require different wheels bolts to alloys?
No they don't. How else would you fit your spare / space saver :wink:
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Amanda:
The mytyres web page for 16" steel wheels + H and V rated winter tyre combinations for a Mk6 GTi.
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/skw.pl
Over to you Glen. :smiley:
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As I've said before, there is only a very small actual cost in doing this as you can only wear out one set of tyres at a time. One thing no one has answered yet is do steel wheels require different wheels bolts to alloys?
No they don't. How else would you fit your spare / space saver :wink:
Good point, well presented. :smiley:
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As I've said before, there is only a very small actual cost in doing this as you can only wear out one set of tyres at a time. One thing no one has answered yet is do steel wheels require different wheels bolts to alloys?
No they don't. How else would you fit your spare / space saver :wink:
Good point, well presented. :smiley:
Ta :smiley:
Just to add that if you have non OEM wheels you may have different bolts anyway. I know on the MK4 if you fitted aftermarket wheels you needed different bolts - can't remember if the standard ones are radius or tapered and then you required vice-versa. I don't know if this is applicable to the MK6 :undecided:
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Amanda:
The mytyres web page for 16" steel wheels + V rated winter tyre combinations for a Mk6 GTi.
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/skw.pl
Bridgestones or Goodyear. Possibly the later.
Not too hot a choice.
Over to you Glen. :smiley:
The recommended VW winter tyre size for the mk6 GTI is 205/55 R 16 91H
H rated tyres open up more choice for you. They are speed rated up to 130mph, which you'd be mad to do in winter anyway, so have plenty in hand
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The recommended VW winter tyre size for the mk6 GTI is 205/55 R 16 91H
H rated tyres open up more choice for you. They are speed rated up to 130mph, which you'd be mad to do in winter anyway, so have plenty in hand
Edited my post! :wink:
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Just to add that if you have non OEM wheels you may have different bolts anyway. I know on the MK4 if you fitted aftermarket wheels you needed different bolts - can't remember if the standard ones are radius or tapered and then you required vice-versa. I don't know if this is applicable to the MK6 :undecided:
It does...
My BBS CHs need 60 degree taper bolts, not ball seat bolts.
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Bloody hell :angry: I am totally confused now. Went down to the local tyre centre, where the chap has always been brilliant with my tyre choices etc.
He stated that I do not need to change my wheels, that he can get me a decent set of winter tyres in my size and that they will be more than adequate.
God help us I don't know what to do now.
Giz
He is correct. you don't need to change them.
But 225 wide tyres are crap in snow regardless of the compound...far better to have a narrower tyre, but you can't get that on a 18" wheel.
225/40/18 winter tyres are fine in the cold, as that's the size I run...but I'd not want to drive in deep snow on them.
In snow, you are likely to slide and more likely to clunk a kerb. The hifgher sidewall of a 205/55/16 gives you more protection from damage - to both the wheel and tyre, and the car's suspension geometry.
Monza Shaddows in winter, with gritters throwing stuff about = white worm by spring.
It's a no brainer to me...if you NEED to drive in really bad weather, you need to give yourself the best possible chance of finding grip, with the least chance of damage to the wheels/car should a slide occur.
So cheap winter wheels with 205/55/16 tyres is THE best option.
17" or 18" winter tyres are far better than 17"/18"/19" summer tyres...but nowhere near as good as 205/55/16 winter tyres in the snow.
Only you can decide how important the journey is, and how much you are prepared to put at risk.
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It is time I got a sh!tsu like Snoops. :cool:
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http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_2705.shtml
from last year.
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Do like them winter wheels...
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Its snowing! :evil:
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Its snowing! :evil:
It is so very sunny in London town!
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and almost uniquely, sunny in manchester too :smiley:
temps nice & low mind....
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sunny and blue skies in Leeds too.
although i hear that is all about to change!! :huh:
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Got a set of Continental winter contact TS830P on order through mytyres.
A mate has a decent set of 17" shadows that he is letting me have for the winter. I know you all said drop down to 16" but I've had some experience of driving in snow both heavy on the ground and slush so I feel I shall be ok.
Will let you know how I go on.
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Rolfe
Have you had your winter tyres fitted yet? If so what did you get and how do you find them?
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Sad to say but it stopped snowing this morning. Now though its just started again and its really coming down :smiley:
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Yeah dinging down here too, promised more for overnight so may wake up to a white blanket.
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http://www.drivergear.vw.com/VW08/SKUDetailsVW08F1T4071496.Asp
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What's snow? :lipsrsealed:
Love from the sunny South West....... :grin:
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What's snow? :lipsrsealed:
Love from the sunny South West....... :grin:
Just you wait, promising snowfall for most parts of the country overnight Friday :wink:
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Just got home and snow is lying at around 1". Roads are gridlocked as drivers sit white knuckled behind the wheel wondering what this white stuff is. A guy in a BMW drove around the roundabout in front of me at around 2mph.
My god what a difference the winter tyres made to cornering and more importantly stopping! Doesn't advocate driving like a loon, but at normal reduced speeds for the snow and ice, the grip level is much, much better. Anyone who's dithering, go and get some!
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(http://euportal.aolcdn.com/p/pubtool/form1025/main_img1.image/1-496f9dce-3113-4867-989b-95205b454044.jpg) I think this golf driver needs some :grin:
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hmmm.. maybe i will get some after all :laugh:
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Rolfe
Have you had your winter tyres fitted yet? If so what did you get and how do you find them?
Got them yesterday.
The car was due its first service, so I just asked the garage to fit some winter tyres while it was in there. I have 17s anyway so I didn't see any reason for new actual wheels. In the event they just changed the front ones. Whether this is wise or not, time will tell I suppose.
I did look at the tyres, but the name on them didn't ring an immediate bell and I ain't going out right now to write it down!
The ride seems noticeably smoother and quieter than with the summer tyres. It was very frosty and slippy this morning, but although I did note the ABS coming on momentarily, once, there was no loss of traction (as I had experienced in similar weather a couple of weeks ago).
The slight shock was being told that my summer tyres, the original Bridgestones, were so barely legal (after just under 13,000 miles) that they weren't worth putting back on, so make sure to order new summer tyres come spring. Then followed spiel about performance cars, automatic transmission and wheelspin.
Rolfe.
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Just had the Conti Winters (17") fitted today.
Noticably more comfortable and less wheelspin from the bluefin. Much chunkier as you'd expect but they look good.
Don't seem to be any quieter/louder than the summer Bridgestones.
Bring on the snow.
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Looks like I'll have to give in too...
Does any one know if my Monza-shaddow wheel bolts will fit the steel wheels that Mytyres supply? Do I need
centre caps, or will the one off the shaddows be OK? Mytyres have a particularly useless telephone line...
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Which one is the smug icon?
Ahh..here it is: :smug:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Ess_Three/Golf GTI Mk6/CarInTheSnowNov2010002.jpg)
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thats not snow s3!!! i sneeze more snow than that after a night out :laugh:
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It's enough to gridlock Aberdeen currently...but then again, Aberdeen drivers are the worst in the UK in my view.
Regardless, it'll only get worse and I shall still be mobile. Happy days.
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Which one is the smug icon?
Ahh..here it is: :smug:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Ess_Three/Golf GTI Mk6/CarInTheSnowNov2010002.jpg)
should have got a white GTI... they become invisible on those conditions
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should have got a white GTI... they become invisible on those conditions
Ahh...but when staggering home from the pub, blootered and suffering from snow blindness...I way walk into it assuming it was nice soft snow, causing harm to either myself of the vehicle.
Red, is safer...
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Which one is the smug icon?
Ahh..here it is: :smug:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z72/Ess_Three/Golf GTI Mk6/CarInTheSnowNov2010002.jpg)
should have got a white GTI... they become invisible on those conditions
What are thos BBs 17 or 18"? Whatever they do look good.
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What are thos BBs 17 or 18"? Whatever they do look good.
They are 18" CHs.
Thank you for the kind comment...I'm pleased you like them. :smiley:
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I saw the TV footage last night from Aberdeen, a bunch of cars slithering around with no control at all. One nearly went sideways into a lamp post right in front of the camera.
I can understand why winter tyres aren't mandatory in Britain, but why on earth don't we see some public information stuff about the advantages of fitting them? For Pete's sake, why don't we see bloody advertisements from the tyre manufacturers telling us all about what their product can do for us in these conditions and trying to sell us some?
I swear if it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't even know such things existed. Everything I've seen about them has either been on here, or on links followed from here. The single other instance was a small, diffident little note in the window of a local garage where I stopped for petrol, just reading "winter tyres now in stock".
Every day now, we get traffic reports saying such-and-such a road should only be attempted by four-wheel-drive vehicles. Yeah, on summer tyres I suppose and watch them slither too, even if they slither with better control. A few traffic reports saying only to attempt the road if you have winter tyres fitted might concentrate some minds.
Rolfe.
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And indeed if they made more of the fact that once the temp drops below 7c you are better off with winter tyres. As I've said before, once you drive in the alps in the winter & appreciate the total lack of drama as everyone has a set of winter tyres it makes a heap of sense. You'd imagine the insurance companies might have a vested interest here too!
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Well, I've got mine on now and it's difficult to say much because "lack of drama" is about it. We had snow lying yesterday evening and again this morning, but I just drove as normal and nothing out of the ordinary happened. Since I don't have a crystal ball set to an alternate universe where I didn't fit the things, I don't know how it would have been without them.
I'm still not 100% sure about this "just put a pair on the front wheels" part, but I'll let you know how I get on.
Rolfe.
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I saw the TV footage last night from Aberdeen, a bunch of cars slithering around with no control at all. One nearly went sideways into a lamp post right in front of the camera.
Aberdeen Council fails again.
They have evidently learned nothing from last winter.
Not unsurprising, sadly.
Most of the locals seem just as stupid too...
Every day now, we get traffic reports saying such-and-such a road should only be attempted by four-wheel-drive vehicles. Yeah, on summer tyres I suppose and watch them slither too, even if they slither with better control.
Last winter I spotted several X5s and the like, slithering about with no real traction (not surprised with 285 wider tyres!) whilst I drove along with no more drama than summer tyres in winter, in my little FWD hatchback.
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Hankook Icebear?
That's what it seems to say on my front tyres now. I have no idea if it's good or bad, but 48 hours on I'm still alive!
Rolfe.
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Hankook Icebear?
That's what it seems to say on my front tyres now. I have no idea if it's good or bad, but 48 hours on I'm still alive!
Rolfe.
Hankook make some good tyres...although Asker won't approve as they aren't a 'Permium' maker...but I'd say you'll be just fine on those tyres.
They will be vastly better than your old summer tyres...as you've experienced.
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I just replaced mine today with PS3's 150 a corner, will let you know how they are once run a bit. Kwicksh*t wanted 190 a corner , I said to the guy behind the desk, who are the mugs who pay this sort of money and get raped by you guys , he just gave me smile :grin:. The tyres seem much quieter than the Dunlop's.
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(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Photo-0326.jpg)
The main roads in and around us were exactly the same this morning as the backstreet. No gritters nothing. :sad:
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Same here, we had about 3 inches this morning and the roads hadn't been gritted.
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Hankook Icebear?
That's what it seems to say on my front tyres now. I have no idea if it's good or bad, but 48 hours on I'm still alive!
Rolfe.
Hankook make some good tyres...although Asker won't approve as they aren't a 'Permium' maker... but I'd say you'll be just fine on those tyres.
They will be vastly better than your old summer tyres...as you've experienced.
They do and they are not considered, by the powers that be, a Premium make. :cool:
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Hankook Icebear?
That's what it seems to say on my front tyres now. I have no idea if it's good or bad, but 48 hours on I'm still alive!
Rolfe.
Hankook make some good tyres...although Asker won't approve as they aren't a 'Permium' maker... but I'd say you'll be just fine on those tyres.
They will be vastly better than your old summer tyres...as you've experienced.
Ive used hankook tyres on the mk1 for many many years now. I found them a good tyre myself on that car. :undecided:
I better not mension that family members are running Nankang snows then or he may have a hart attack :grin:
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You've mentioned it and I have not had coronary thrombosis. :tongue:
However, I threw-up! :sick:
Bloody cheek. :grin:
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(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Photo-0326.jpg)
The main roads in and around us were exactly the same this morning as the backstreet. No gritters nothing. :sad:
Snap, I don't even have my new rubber on yet :cry:
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(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Photo-0326.jpg)
The main roads in and around us were exactly the same this morning as the backstreet. No gritters nothing. :sad:
Snap, I don't even have my new rubber on yet :cry:
Amanda: Care to explain what you mean? :huh: :rolleyes:
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(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Photo-0326.jpg)
The main roads in and around us were exactly the same this morning as the backstreet. No gritters nothing. :sad:
Snap, I don't even have my new rubber on yet :cry:
Amanda: Care to explain what you mean? :huh: :rolleyes:
OMG :rolleyes: the snow here is the same as in Snoops photo hence 'snap'. And I don't have my new tyres on as yet hence no rubber. Are you keeping up? :laugh:
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I am honey, in a sledge. :evil:
Dry as a bone here but bloody cold -1 degree C and about to get colder.
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-3C in the Lyne valley tonight.
Rolfe.
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no snow here... despite being told everyday for the last 3 that we are going to get it :undecided:
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This is only the second day of WINTER and already I am sick to the back teeth of snow :sick:
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We had another 2" of snow ovenight and temps here at the moment are around -0.5°C and dropping. It feels like it's going to be a long, hard winter :sad:
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We had another 2" of snow ovenight and temps here at the moment are around -0.5°C and dropping. It feels like it's going to be a long, hard winter :sad:
Snowed here all day and now it's about -3 brrrrr, where are you abouts?
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Up in not so sunny Northumberland. Forecast is dropping to -5 tonight. Have mytyres given you a delivery date yet? I'm going to order some tonight for my wifes car
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Seriously considering taking 4 months off and going to my house in Athens.
22/23 degrees C in Ahens, freezing in London. Minus 3 degrees C tonight.
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Seriously considering taking 4 months off and going to my house in Athens.
22/23 degrees C in Ahens, freezing in London. Minus 3 degrees C tonight.
Hell! lets all take 4 months off and go to your house in athens!! :evil:
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Seriously considering taking 4 months off and going to my house in Athens.
22/23 degrees C in Ahens, freezing in London. Minus 3 degrees C tonight.
Hell! lets all take 4 months off and go to your house in athens!! :evil:
You are welcome, for a small fee! :grin:
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Group trip :evil:
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Up in not so sunny Northumberland. Forecast is dropping to -5 tonight. Have mytyres given you a delivery date yet? I'm going to order some tonight for my wifes car
Mytyres :rolleyes: Maybe they're cheap but their customer service is rubbish. I've heard nothing from them since 24th when I placed my order, tried phoning but they don't answer, tried e-mailing but they don't e-mail back. Going to give them until Monday and then will get seriously torn into them. Looks like more snow for us lot in the East tonight.
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Seriously considering taking 4 months off and going to my house in Athens.
22/23 degrees C in Ahens, freezing in London. Minus 3 degrees C tonight.
Asker
My bags are packed :wink: what time do we leave? :grin:
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I took a risk and let Kwik Fit do mine.
They were excellent.
Polite, efficient, cheap (cheapest quote for me online) and very careful with my wheels (they pointed out a 5mm mark I already knew about).
And they store the summer tyres for the winter.
I've not been there for a long while but was impressed, things seem to have improved.
I feel a lot safer with the winter Contis as you can really feel the difference in grip.
And it gives me peace of mind. :smiley:
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I took a risk and let Kwik Fit do mine.
They were excellent.
Polite, efficient, cheap (cheapest quote for me online) and very careful with my wheels (they pointed out a 5mm mark I already knew about).
And they store the summer tyres for the winter.
I've not been there for a long while but was impressed, things seem to have improved.
I feel a lot safer with the winter Contis as you can really feel the difference in grip.
And it gives me peace of mind. :smiley:
How much? :undecided:
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£147 for 17" or £163 for 18". Conti Winter TS830P.
Cheapest I found anywhere.
Not always available on their website, one day they are the next they're not.
Something to do with the weather probably....
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£147 for 17" or £163 for 18". Conti Winter TS830P.
Cheapest I found anywhere.
Not always available on their website, one day they are the next they're not.
Something to do with the weather probably....
They wanted 190 a corner yesterday for ps3's 500 yards away got them 148 each and I'm well pleased with them loads of grip at -2 in london right now ,very quiet noise wise too!! :smug:
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Excuse the ignorance.
What are PS3s? Michelin? (I thought they sell the Alpin for winter).?
Winter or all weather?
Edit
OK, just found out. PA3 Alpins. Among the best apparently.
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Excuse the ignorance.
What are PS3s? Michelin? (I thought they sell the Alpin for winter).?
Winter or all weather?
Edit
OK, just found out. PA3 Alpins. Among the best apparently.
All weather Michelins :cool:
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PS3 - Summer/all weather (I think that means good in the wet).
PA3 Alpin - Winter tyre.
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PS3 - Summer/all weather (I think that means good in the wet).
PA3 Alpin - Winter tyre.
Yea think your right, but im happy with them if it snow's car goes in garage anyway :cool:
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PS3 - Summer/all weather (I think that means good in the wet).
PA3 Alpin - Winter tyre.
Yea think your right, but im happy with them if it snow's car goes in garage anyway :cool:
Same here. If it snows, I'll catch a cab and a tube. :cool:
BTW: Minus 3 degrees outside the house. Horrible. :sick:
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Steve30
I only ever come on here to give and receive good, honest information.
(Hope I'm not a "troll cnut" anymore). :wink:
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Steve30
I only ever come on here to give and receive good, honest information.
(Hope I'm not a "troll cnut" anymore). :wink:
You are loverly GolfTI IMVHO as is my friend Steve. :smiley:
Steady on Asker. :shocked:
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All good in my world. :smiley:
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If I could buy Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 tyres in 225/40 R18 95W, I'd jump at the chance. They are rarer than hen's teeth. Could get them in 235/40 R18 95W (£252-£263 a tyre, :sick:) which would affect the mph reading by -1.2% compared with 225/40 R18s or -0.7% when compared with 225/45 R17s. So 62mph would be 61mph wrt 18" wheels and no speed difference wrt 17" wheels. Remember the 18" wheels read +0.5% more than 17" wheels.
I have 7.5" rims and this would be the max tyre width this rim could be fitted with. :undecided:
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Steve30
I only ever come on here to give and receive good, honest information.
(Hope I'm not a "troll cnut" anymore). :wink:
No no no was only joking mate :wink:
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No worries.
Still on my 'good guys' list.
I've always mostly enyoyed your posts.
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No worries.
Still on my 'good guys' list.
I've always mostly enjoyed your posts.
Fail spell :grin: :grin: Corrected enjoyed for you!!
Gilly does that to me, the Troll :grin:
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Right, that's it. I'm a FAN. Officially.
Woke up this morning to nearly an inch of snow. Pristine whiteness in the street outside. That much snow in my drive would have had the Bridgestones (and whatever-the-hell was on the Pug GTi-6 as well) spinning merrily. I have to go about a quarter of a mile before I meet anything that's been gritted. Again, I'd have been slithering all over the place. It would have been a toss-up whether I'd have put the AutoSocks on, to be honest, and that takes time and effort.
I just drove out. No fuss, no muss. No drama. No sign of the EPS yellow warning coming on.
Even once I got the the gritted part, it wasn't plain sailing by any means, but the Icebears took it in their stride. Even the tricky part where you have to stop on quite a steep hill as you join the main road, and it's a prime spot for getting stuck in the snow, no problemo.
I even overtook several vehicles going too damn slow on the main road, crossing the snowy ridges between the tyre tracks to do it, and no loss of traction at all. (Maybe that isn't too clever though, pride could come before a fall on that one, I may not make a habit of it.)
My only moment of slither was something I did deliberately. I took the corner turning into the driveway to the estate where I work a bit too fast, and sure enough the back end (the summer Bridgestones are still on the hind hooves) skidded out sideways. So now I know. Careful on that one. But once I was straight again, no problem. The estate roads weren't gritted of course, but I just drove right over it all.
This is my definition of a massive success.
And in fact, I needed new front tyres anyway. If I'd just let the garage put normal boots on the car last Tuesday, I'd have been a raving idiot.
Rolfe.
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Good to hear and i hope mine copes just as well as theres 5" of snow came down last night (5" on top of the car) which is now ontop of what was already there.
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Good to hear and i hope mine copes just as well as theres 5" of snow came down last night (5" on top of the car) which is now ontop of what was already there.
That might be pushing it a bit, but let us know how you get on.
Rolfe.
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Aberdeen Council fails again.
They have evidently learned nothing from last winter.
Not unsurprising, sadly.
Most of the locals seem just as stupid too...
I was driving into work on Thursday and I couldn't even see the guy who was behind me's headlights as he was so close. I was driving at a reasonable pace for 5" of snow on the ground - and the same speed as the car that was infront of me (albeit with a 10 car gap between us).
When we stopped at the lights, I pressed my parking sensor button - and he must've been about 10" from my bumper.
Why do all the idiots come out when it snows?!?
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It's all the idiots trying to show you what a fantastic driver they are. Had to laugh yesterday on the way to work. Going up the dual carraigeway theres traffic lights and then after 200yds a turn right into work. Long line of cars on the inside lane and none on the outside waiting at the lights. I pulled into the outside lane and Audi man on the inside must have thought "I can do that!" and proceeded to pull into the outside lane behind me under acceleration. He lost it big time as his summer tyres hit the snow ruts. As I got to the turn off for work, I could see him out of his car. Do hope he didn't break anything
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My old man popped round yesterday in mothers new Fabia TSI DSG.
He got stuck.
I had to dig him out of my driveway and 4 times out of the road outside my house. I doubt DSG was doing him any favours...but the Fabia wasn't any use.
The silly thing is, I have the winter wheels for the Fabia in my garage...so today I summon him round in the heavy snow, he appears slithering about all over the place, I set to and swap all 4 wheels and send him on his way as if the snow has vanished.
1-0 to winter tyres.
I haven't needed to go anywhere over the last few days...so haven't really tried my winter tyres out.
So, since the Fabia found the road passable, I de-frosted the GTI, warmed it up, dropped the clutch on the driveway and set off...no drama, no fuss, no wheelspin...only a very smug expression on the face of the driver.
2-0 to winter tyres.
Snow? Pah...
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I too will hopefully be saying:
Freezing roads - pha!
Snow - pha!
:wink: :grin:
Must say the Bilgestones have lost quite a lot of grip on the freezing roads. Steering was ever so light.
Gave my deltoids a good rest, but my state of mind was anything but calm!
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My PS3s are hanging in there, no major issues so far although the traction control light seems to be quite active :laugh:
DSG is superb as usual for me, but then I have five winters of experience so know how to use it properly
I think I am going for the winter tyres next week, if this keeps up, just checking local prices at the moment.
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Ordered a set for my wifes Yaris last night on Mytyres, £82 each including steel wheel. Same today are up to £104 each - talk about supply and demand!
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What type are most people going for.
I was thinking of just getting the fronts shod, I don't intend on going mad when it is snowing.
It would just be nice to have a bit of traction when going up my lane, 300m up hill with an S bend in the middle..
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Ordered a set for my wifes Yaris last night on Mytyres, £82 each including steel wheel. Same today are up to £104 each - talk about supply and demand!
Supply and demand and oil prices.
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Well i left Nottingham at midnight last night, no snow. 10 mins in to the journey it came down think and hard!!
tbh the bridgestones were fine. I think I am so used to them sliding about in the wet, the snow was no different. Was going past rangerovers and all sorts of 4x4's :evil:
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^^
Main reason I got winters this year was because the Bridgestones were so bad last year.
Great tyres in the summer but simply awful when it's cold and slippery.
Snow - couldn't get out of the driveway.
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^^
Main reason I got winters this year was because the Bridgestones were so bad last year.
Great tyres in the summer but simply awful when it's cold and slippery.
Snow - couldn't get out of the driveway.
So much power with the Bluefin. :grin:
Your car needs the best tyres for the summer and the winter.
You've sorted the winter ones.
Change the Bilgestones when you have the chance. Hate the bloody things.
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^^
Why Amy?
Very good tyres for the summer.
I would have preferred Contis from the factory but that's because I'm a brand junkie.
And I would have liked German (engineered) tyres on my German car.
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I just cannot stand the noise they produce and they are as slippery as as a 'merchant' in a souk in the wet.
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Horrific journey home tonight guys, 7 inches of lying snow made travelling across the moors more than a nightmare.
Didn't even consider taking my GTI so a mate in a Isuzu 4 wheel drive came and got us but even that was a touch hairy. I am hoping to be told not to venture forth tomorrow.
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Horrific journey home tonight guys, 7 inches of lying snow made travelling across the moors more than a nightmare.
Didn't even consider taking my GTI so a mate in a Isuzu 4 wheel drive came and got us but even that was a touch hairy. I am hoping to be told not to venture forth tomorrow.
I cannot believe what a 'mare you are having.
Be careful.
Where are the bloody winter rubbers?
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Horrific journey home tonight guys, 7 inches of lying snow made travelling across the moors more than a nightmare.
Didn't even consider taking my GTI so a mate in a Isuzu 4 wheel drive came and got us but even that was a touch hairy. I am hoping to be told not to venture forth tomorrow.
I cannot believe what a 'mare you are having.
Be careful.
Where are the bloody winter rubbers?
I want my winter rubbers ASAP but tbh mytyres are messing me about good and proper :angry: will have to think about giving kwiksh!t a go instead.
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BTW: minus bloody 3 degrees centigrade outside the house.
Decided to switch the fridge off and leave all the food outside. Doing my bit to reduce global flipping warming! :rolleyes:
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If the Krauts are giving you trouble, try this Frog site:
http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/tyre-type-advice.html
No, it is not a French pen!s! :grin:
GolfTi is online now and is an expert in sourcing tyres from Kwikfit. How he does it simply beggars belief. Clever boy. :smiley:
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BTW: minus bloody 3 degrees centigrade outside the house.
Decided to switch the fridge off and leave all the food outside. Doing my bit to reduce global flipping warming! :rolleyes:
I don't think it got above that all day here.
Funny though, it didn't feel that cold as I was swapping wheels.
The problem I have now is the snow is so deep that tyre tracks have made ruts...with the bit in the middle now using my front spoiled as a snowplough. It's so cold, and the snow so frozen, I'm worried about cracking the front bumper!
Maybe a lowered GTI isn't the best transport in deep snow.
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Mine unlowered was doing that this morning so i drove it back in the garage and left it :sad:
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Really freakish weather.
Our turn will come in London. The fun will then really begin as the Council never grits my road and cars have run into one another every time there is snow.
Can't wait to get my winter tyres.
The problem and worry is that 99% of the cars will be driven dangeriously on summer tyres.
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BTW: MINUS 11 DEGREES CENTIGRADE IN WALES. POOR SHEEP. BAAA!!!
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:smug: :smug: :smug:
Never bothered in the UK before but after the shocking Bridgestone performance last year I ordered early.
In Germany and other central European countries it's just a matter of when not if.
Our GTIs are shod with high performance summer tyres - not good in the winter.
More smugs.
:smug: :smug: :smug:
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My PS3s are hanging in there, no major issues so far although the traction control light seems to be quite active :laugh:
DSG is superb as usual for me, but then I have five winters of experience so know how to use it properly
I think I am going for the winter tyres next week, if this keeps up, just checking local prices at the moment.
Mike i just put the ps3's on mine and your right about the traction it does throw it out a bit but still great tyres IMO :wink:
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Bluefin, 17" (biggish boy), winter rubber, poetry, whatever next? :rolleyes:
Smarty pants! :cool:
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^^
Ich habe mehr, als du dir vorstellen kannst... :kiss:
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^^
Ich habe mehr, als du dir vorstellen kannst... :kiss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4OLmhxwEw
:wink: :smiley:
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-6.5C when I got home from choir practice at six this evening. God only knows what it is now. Forecast night minimum for Livingston is -9C, so what it'll be up in the hills here I don't want to know.
Just went out to the garage to shut off and drain the tap. It only seems like a couple of months since I had it fixed after it split during a -20C night in January.
Rolfe.
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Herr GolfTi: Beyond my imagination I am sure. :grin:
Start composing an 'Ode to the GTi'. You can get some pointers from Beethoven's 'Ode to Joy' from Symphony No 9. :cool:
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Rolfe: I am sorry I forgot about the dog. :embarassed:
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:smiley:
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:smiley:
I am very slightly confused.
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Smiley was for Rolfe. I put it in the wrong place.
Nice to here from you Rolfe :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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You were talking of Schiller Music by Christopher von Deylen.
Brilliant, even for an oldie like me who mainly listens to classical music.
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Smiley was for Rolfe. I put it in the wrong place.
Nice to here from you Rolfe :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Sorry, if you thought I was being fresh. :evil:
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You were talking of Schiller Music by Christopher von Deylen.
Brilliant, even for an oldie like me who mainly listens to classical music.
Now I'm very slightly confused :huh:
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Freude, schöner Götterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium!
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische, Dein Heiligtum.
Deine Zauber binden wieder,
Was die Mode streng geteilt,
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
Wo Dein sanfter Flügel weilt.
und so weiter.
They say the top A the sopranos have to hold for several pages was Beethoven's tinnitus note.
Rolfe.
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Meant to say. Picked friend up this afternoon, and her daughter was visiting. Daughter was apparently massively impressed by the GTi, and carried on quite a bit about what a fantastic car it is.
So the fame of our wagons is obviously widespread.
Rolfe.
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Ode to Joy (Ode an die Freude....for our German friends)
Very apt for our fantastic teutonic motors. :cool:
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Blimey! This forum gets more educational by the day! Now we're on to languages! I really wish i speak another language rather than just struggling with english! :laugh:
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Ode to Joy (Ode an die Freude....for our German friends)
Very apt for our fantastic teutonic motors. :cool:
Actually there's some fairly horrible stuff later on in that poem.
Ja, wer auch nur eine Seele
Sein nennt auf dem Erdenrund!
Und wer's nie gekonnt, der stehle
Weinend sich aus diesem Bund!
But if you don't have a friend, then crawl away and cry in a corner, we don't want you.
Nice.
Rolfe.
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He was not a very nice person in his later years and had some very filthy habits. Poor bugger was deaf with raging tinnitus. But we forgive him for all this.
His music is heavenly.
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GolfTi: Have you noticed any change in internal noise levels between the Bridgestone 050As and the Continental 830Ps?
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Maybe an option for steel wheels for winter tyres
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5099146-euro-steel-wheel
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GolfTi: Have you noticed any change in internal noise levels between the Bridgestone 050As and the Continental 830Ps?
Sorry to jump in on GolfTi - my winters are quieter and smoother than the Bridgestones I had on. Both 17" tyres in my case
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Maybe an option for steel wheels for winter tyres
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5099146-euro-steel-wheel
ETKA shows the part numbers as: -
Wheels = 5K0 601 027 03C @ £73.72 each
Trims = 5K0 601 147 G BSM @ £31.24 each
:smiley:
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A bit off topic I know and no doubt I will get shouted off the forum, but here goes nothing :grin:
The snow here this week has been horrendous and I have to journey across pretty wild terrain most days to get to work and although I love my GTI am seriously considering trading it for a Land Rover Freelander, you may say but it's only 2 or 3 weeks of the year but in reality it can be 2 or 3 months.
I am really torn, advice required.
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Wait until you have tried the GTI on winter tyres before commiting yourself. A mate of mine had a CRV and a Merc and kitted his Merc out with Avon Ice Touring winter tyres. Reckoned the Merc was better on winter tyres than the CRV was on all weather tyres and used it in preference.
You having hassle with Mytyres Gizzywizzy?
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Wait until you have tried the GTI on winter tyres before commiting yourself. A mate of mine had a CRV and a Merc and kitted his Merc out with Avon Ice Touring winter tyres. Reckoned the Merc was better on winter tyres than the CRV was on all weather tyres and used it in preference.
You having hassle with Mytyres Gizzywizzy?
I think the Freelander will put the GTI to shame going through snow :smiley:
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^^^ Agreed, a Freelander with winter tyres will be pretty hard to beat in proper snow.
The americans (in the north east and canada) seam to do pretty well with the 16's on the GTI, so I would say that's worth a try.
Got both of mine sorted on the winter wheels today, and boy do they look crap :laugh: :laugh:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk207/Stevep_010/3f024a3b.jpg)
Due to the brakes I went with 17's but with clever placement of the balancing weights it turns out I could have just got 16's.
And the A3 that will get used more in this weather so got the 205 55 16's for this one: -
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk207/Stevep_010/3a02e053.jpg)
A good pair of ebay bargins, got conti winter contact's on mine and Dunlop Sport Winter M3's on the A3 :smiley:
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Wait until you have tried the GTI on winter tyres before commiting yourself. A mate of mine had a CRV and a Merc and kitted his Merc out with Avon Ice Touring winter tyres. Reckoned the Merc was better on winter tyres than the CRV was on all weather tyres and used it in preference.
You having hassle with Mytyres Gizzywizzy?
I think the Freelander will put the GTI to shame going through snow :smiley:
On the correct tyres I agree, but not the road tyres it will come fitted with. It's been quite fun the last few days watching all the people who have invested in 4x4's after last winter slithering and sliding about, wondering why the magic of 4WD isn't working for them. If Gizzywizzy has made the investment of winter tyres already, all I;m suggesting is she waits to try them before losing a shed load on a trade in that might not be necessary
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4x4 without winter tyres are useless.
Watch the video. Says it all.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2010-Auto-Bild-Winter-4x4-TyreTest.htm
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Nothing from mytyres, contacted them over and over again, don't any of you use them :angry:
I guess I may have to give Kwikfit a go but I'd need to go through to Scarborough for that, another mare of a trip across the snowy moors, we've got at least a foot lying now and more promised tonight.
B**ggered if I know what to do.
Steve your wheels don't look too bad and if they save you and your wifes cars and more importantly yourselves from some nasty accident it doesn't matter whether you think they look crap or not.
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Amanda, my dearest,
So sorry you are having this 'mare. Can't understand why mytyres are being so ineffecient. Were you going to get their mobile service to fit your tyres/wheels?
Have you tried the French Company pneus I suggested. They are a bit cheaper in some cases than mytyres.
Hope you get it all sorted soon.
Asker
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Amanda, my dearest,
So sorry you are having this 'mare. Can't understand why mytyres are being so ineffecient. Were you going to get their mobile service to fit your tyres/wheels?
Have you tried the French Company pneus I suggested. They are a bit cheaper in some cases than mytyres.
Hope you get it all sorted soon.
Asker
I can only think mytyres took my order but don't actually have the tyres in stock, I am unable to cancel the order because it's gone past that stage on the computer order, so am stuck until they have the good manners to contact me. And no was just havng them delivered to home and then fitted by local garage.
The French lot don't have them in stock at present either. If mytyres can't deliver I shall try Kwikfit but as I said already that involves a mare of a journey.
Thanks for your help :kiss:
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Im putting it down to the demand at the moment as i know mytyres are used by a few dealership chains in my area who are also ordering alot of winter tyres for there customers. I have not had problems myself with them before but i have always had them get a local mobile company to come and fit them so maybe they just pass on the details to said company and let them sort it out.
I have tried the 4x4 route before in years gone by and its not worth it imo. A good Front wheel drive car with narrow winter tyres is good enough unless you want to go in really deep snow were the extra ground clearence of a 4x4 is needed to get over the ruts. The disadvantage of a 4x4 is the same as many cars infact weight and wide tyres. If you really want a 4wheel drive then if it was me it would be a 4 wheel drive car fitted with winter tyres.
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I can only think mytyres took my order but don't actually have the tyres in stock, I am unable to cancel the order because it's gone past that stage on the computer order, so am stuck until they have the good manners to contact me. And no was just havng them delivered to home and then fitted by local garage.
Ordered my wifes wheels and tyres on Saturday using Visa and Mytyres still showing "Payment not yet received
Being processed" in my account page. When I ordered the ones for my Golf, they were delivered in 4 days to the tyre fitter. Hope there's not going to be a delay :sad:
Wouldn't mind betting there's a hell of a demand for winter tyres after the last weeks weather.
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I can only think mytyres took my order but don't actually have the tyres in stock, I am unable to cancel the order because it's gone past that stage on the computer order, so am stuck until they have the good manners to contact me. And no was just havng them delivered to home and then fitted by local garage.
Ordered my wifes wheels and tyres on Saturday using Visa and Mytyres still showing "Payment not yet received
Being processed" in my account page. When I ordered the ones for my Golf, they were delivered in 4 days to the tyre fitter. Hope there's not going to be a delay :sad:
Wouldn't mind betting there's a hell of a demand for winter tyres after the last weeks weather.
Yeah that's what mine says but it also says unable to quote a delivery date yet. Also the option to cancel has disappeared. Funny that :sad:
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Yeah that's what mine says but it also says unable to quote a delivery date yet. Also the option to cancel has disappeared. Funny that :sad:
They are now probably on their way.
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I feel for those waiting...and hate to sound smug...
But, we have been discussing winter tyres for over a year now on various threads...why leave it so late?
Demand outstripped supply last year...it's doing the same this year.
Lets just hope the supply gets sorted out before anyone has an incident.
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A bit off topic I know and no doubt I will get shouted off the forum, but here goes nothing :grin:
The snow here this week has been horrendous and I have to journey across pretty wild terrain most days to get to work and although I love my GTI am seriously considering trading it for a Land Rover Freelander, you may say but it's only 2 or 3 weeks of the year but in reality it can be 2 or 3 months.
I am really torn, advice required.
Gizzywizzy, I second Hartside.
I live even further north than you, in the Pentland Hills. Last year my new GTi was slithering all over the place, it was a total disaster zone. Frankly it was embarrassing. The only way out at that point was AutoSocks, which are great for getting you out of trouble in very thick snow, but not for everyday use.
When the car was due its first service last Tuesday, I insisted the garage fit winter tyres at the same time. They only did the front pair (and I didn't even get the Bridgestones back because apparently I'd already worn them out!). I didn't get picky about the brand or anything, I just left it up to Andrew, whom I trust to see me right.
Wow. Just in time, is all I can say.
Yesterday morning there was an inch of snow and I just drove out of the garage and off, no wheelspin, no drama. Traction really impressive.
Today I woke up to heavy snow, but only about two inches actually lying. I was due to take three friends to Edinburgh. People started phoning me saying, should we go. The radio was telling people not to drive unless the journey was really necessary. Heavy snow had apparently fallen in the city and it was said to be horrendous. More heavy snow was forecast for the evening.
I loaded up with the AutoSocks, a snow shovel, a bag of road salt and extra windscreen deicer, and told them they were a bunch of wimps. There was certainly a lot of snow around, and the city streets were very very snowy. But I didn't need any of that paraphernalia. Just drove to the concert, and drove back. No fuss, no drama, no skidding, no wheelspin.
All my passengers are now talking about getting winter tyres for their cars.
It's chalk and cheese. The difference is phenomenal. Don't give up on the Golf till you've tried the right tyres for the conditions.
Rolfe.
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A bit off topic I know and no doubt I will get shouted off the forum, but here goes nothing :grin:
The snow here this week has been horrendous and I have to journey across pretty wild terrain most days to get to work and although I love my GTI am seriously considering trading it for a Land Rover Freelander, you may say but it's only 2 or 3 weeks of the year but in reality it can be 2 or 3 months.
I am really torn, advice required.
Gizzywizzy, I second Hartside.
I live even further north than you, in the Pentland Hills. Last year my new GTi was slithering all over the place, it was a total disaster zone. Frankly it was embarrassing. The only way out at that point was AutoSocks, which are great for getting you out of trouble in very thick snow, but not for everyday use.
When the car was due its first service last Tuesday, I insisted the garage fit winter tyres at the same time. They only did the front pair (and I didn't even get the Bridgestones back because apparently I'd already worn them out!). I didn't get picky about the brand or anything, I just left it up to Andrew, whom I trust to see me right.
Wow. Just in time, is all I can say.
Yesterday morning there was an inch of snow and I just drove out of the garage and off, no wheelspin, no drama. Traction really impressive.
Today I woke up to heavy snow, but only about two inches actually lying. I was due to take three friends to Edinburgh. People started phoning me saying, should we go. The radio was telling people not to drive unless the journey was really necessary. Heavy snow had apparently fallen in the city and it was said to be horrendous. More heavy snow was forecast for the evening.
I loaded up with the AutoSocks, a snow shovel, a bag of road salt and extra windscreen deicer, and told them they were a bunch of wimps. There was certainly a lot of snow around, and the city streets were very very snowy. But I didn't need any of that paraphernalia. Just drove to the concert, and drove back. No fuss, no drama, no skidding, no wheelspin.
All my passengers are now talking about getting winter tyres for their cars.
It's chalk and cheese. The difference is phenomenal. Don't give up on the Golf till you've tried the right tyres for the conditions.
Rolfe.
Rolfe
Great advice and much appreciated, I just need the winter tyres now so that I can at least give them a go. I would be truly gutted to let the GTI go and would miss it terrbly when the weather goes back to normal. Right, shall be on to mytyres immediately to chase up my order.
Thanks
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Amanda:
I can understand your frustration and concerns. The delay is almost probably due to a huge sudden demand. I am sure they are on their way. Normally can take up to 5 working days; but these are not normal times.
Once you have them installed, all thoughts of selling Bonnie will vanish.
See how happy Rolfe is and with just two front winter tyres!
All the best.
Asker
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I can only think mytyres took my order but don't actually have the tyres in stock, I am unable to cancel the order because it's gone past that stage on the computer order, so am stuck until they have the good manners to contact me. And no was just havng them delivered to home and then fitted by local garage.
Ordered my wifes wheels and tyres on Saturday using Visa and Mytyres still showing "Payment not yet received
Being processed" in my account page. When I ordered the ones for my Golf, they were delivered in 4 days to the tyre fitter. Hope there's not going to be a delay :sad:
Wouldn't mind betting there's a hell of a demand for winter tyres after the last weeks weather.
Yeah that's what mine says but it also says unable to quote a delivery date yet. Also the option to cancel has disappeared. Funny that :sad:
Just a reminder Gizzy yo make sure you point out any imperfections ( if any ) on your Monza alloys before they swap the tyres over. Check them for any damage before you pay the bill.
Just speaking from experience as I'm sure kwik fit put a couple of dinks on the outer rims of my alloys when they swapped the tyres over to my new winter alloys recently.
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Martin:
Gizzy is buying 4 x 16" steel wheel+winter tyre package from mytyres.
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Noticed a big difference yesterday while taking the Golf out of the drive to move the car behind it. It was constantly wheel spinning and really struggling for grip in a cul-de-sac that hadn't been gritted. It has summer tyres on it.
Then took out an old beat up Skoda again with summer tyres but couldn't believe the difference. In the same cul-de-sac it coped with the snow as if it was a dry road. I guess its the big walled, skinny tyres that worked.
So I would imagine with the right tyres on your cars there would be a noticeable difference.
I remember driving about 20 years ago and the snow was never an issue. Even the steepest hills was a doddle.
I take it its the big wide low profile tyres nowadays that are causing the problems?
I have been toying with getting 4 steelies and winter tyres for the Golf but I'd rather my pride took the hit and am staying with the Skoda for the snowy days. Considering the car and insurance costs less than what 4 winter tyres, its a no brainer. I also don't have to worry about other clowns skidding in to me.
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Martin:
Gizzy is buying the 16" steels+winter tyre package from mytyres.
Oh I get ya :wink:
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Thanks to everyone for all help and advice :smiley:
Just heard from mytyres (finally) apparently they had thought they would be able to fulfill my order immediately but due to onerous circumstances outwith their control (presumably the weather) they are unable to honour delivery at present. There was no indication of when I may expect the tyres, just my luck all the snow will be gone before they get here. :grin:
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Tyres on their way as of today :smiley:
Now just need to get my cheap set of alloys from my mate and I'm all sorted :smug:
Need them desperately now, the weather is getting worse.
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Tyres on their way as of today :smiley:
Now just need to get my cheap set of alloys from my mate and I'm all sorted :smug:
Need them desperately now, the weather is getting worse.
Excellent and at last.
You can now start cruising the moors. :evil:
Which make and size did you get?
I thought you were buyng the steel wheel + tyre package from meintyres.
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I feel for those waiting...and hate to sound smug...
But, we have been discussing winter tyres for over a year now on various threads...why leave it so late?
Demand outstripped supply last year...it's doing the same this year.
Lets just hope the supply gets sorted out before anyone has an incident.
No choice mate, circumstances dictated I could only order now for the wifes car. My Golf was sorted out about a month ago now, so it's ok. Bought my wife a new car last weekend and until then we were looking at a choice of 3 different cars until she made her mind up. You are right about ordering as early as possible as the prices have rocketed
Mytyres still haven't despached her wheels/tyres yet :sad:
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Tyres on their way as of today :smiley:
Now just need to get my cheap set of alloys from my mate and I'm all sorted :smug:
Need them desperately now, the weather is getting worse.
Excellent and at last.
You can now start cruising the moors. :evil:
Which make and size did you get?
I thought you were buyng the steel wheel + tyre package from meintyres.
I was going to buy the steelies but when I was talking to my mate at work he has a set of decent 17" alloys which he said I could have for the winter for the cheap prce of £50. Now I couldn't turn that down could I? Will get alloys and new tyres fitted at local garage and then I can cruise the moors in relative safety :evil:
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I was talking to my mate at work he has a set of decent 17" alloys which he said I could have for the winter for the cheap prce of £50. Now I couldn't turn that down could I?
:shocked:
£50! Cracking deal...as you say, one you can't turn down.
I'm sure 17s will be fine...so far my 18s have been even better than I thought, so 17s wil be at the very least as good.
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Here's the car in my carpark this morning that hasn't been cleared since Thursday...
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z92/p3eps/IMAG0244.jpg)
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Amanda:
I can understand your frustration and concerns. The delay is almost probably due to a huge sudden demand. I am sure they are on their way. Normally can take up to 5 working days; but these are not normal times.
Once you have them installed, all thoughts of selling Bonnie will vanish.
See how happy Rolfe is and with just two front winter tyres!
All the best.
Asker
Gizzywizzy, this is so true. Happy doesn't even begin to cover it. Ecstatic comes closer. I know I'm like a stuck record, but these tyres are in the "miracle" bracket.
Last year I was all over the place. Without the AutoSocks my heart was in my mouth getting in and out the cul-de-sac where I live, and it's not even steep where my house is. Even on the flat road into the estate where I work, the wheels were slipping and sliding, and the ESP light was on all the time.
This morning there was a huge dump of snow here. OK, only about 6 inches where I live, but over a foot, easily, at work.
I was seriously considering just driving out of my drive without shovelling it, and only did the shovelling because two neighbouring children showed up and got started spontaneously and I didn't want to discourage the little darlings. (This is going to turn into a lifetime supply of chocolate Santas....) Anyway, off I drove, not the slightest hesitation even when I got into the road proper where the children hadn't been active.
Although the main road had been ploughed and gritted there was still plenty snow. No problems, not even on the notorious Flotterstone brae.
As I approached the estate where I work, I began to realise the snow there was really thick. Someone in a car coming the other way was waving frantically at me, but I didn't see who it was. I turned into the estate, and indeed, the snow was very thick. The place seemed oddly deserted. Then I saw a solitary figure trudging towards me - the woman who has the next office to mine. I rolled down the window to ask what she was doing, and she said the place was shut due to the snow, go home. I went on so that I could collect some marking I had to do. I had to stop short of the building where I work because the JCB hadn't got that far, but walked the last 100 yards. I then had to do a 3-point turn in just the single track the JCB had cleared. No problem.
So then I went back home.
I didn't see the ESP light come on once. The wheels didn't spin at all. The car simply drove on over anything I steered it at, even where I had to go off the main tracks when another vehicle needed to pass, or when doing that 3-point turn.
And this is just two winter tyres, on the standard 17" front alloys. And not even a "premium brand". (They were £120 each by the way.)
I'm not just a fan, I'm DEEPLY in love.
Rolfe.
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Rolfe
Delighted to hear you are so thrilled with your winter tyres.
Should get mine in a day or two so once fitted I shall give you all a report.
Gizzy
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I was talking to my mate at work he has a set of decent 17" alloys which he said I could have for the winter for the cheap prce of £50. Now I couldn't turn that down could I?
:shocked:
£50! Cracking deal...as you say, one you can't turn down.
I'm sure 17s will be fine...so far my 18s have been even better than I thought, so 17s wil be at the very least as good.
Thanks Glen
Report in due course.
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Snow had reached Scouse land this mane. Not once the traction controll/ESP light come on! I am very impress the way the car grip even coming out of a slippery junction. Those tyres worth every penny getting me to work!
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It just went from bad to worse here. We had more snow this afternon which has turned into sheet black ice on all stretches of town roads and dual carraigeway. Maximum speed is around 5mph as the cars in front have zero traction. The bloody council haven't put any grit down at all and you couldn't stand in the road it's that slippy. I've never seen anything like it in 31 years of driving!
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4th day of major snow here. All is well despite reaching -9 on the way to work sunday morning. My winter tyres are doing me proud!! :evil:
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My winter tyres are doing me proud!!
Mine too, but all the other people on summer tyres are slowing me up :cry:
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My winter tyres are doing me proud!!
Mine too, but all the other people on summer tyres are slowing me up :cry:
I am on summer tyres :grin:
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So you're to blame! :grin:
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So you're to blame! :grin:
I have the same problem as you pal!!
If everyone pretended they had winter tyres like me... we would all get to where we want faster! :evil:
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Gilly, I think your rubber is very special. It works inside out and both ways. :evil: :laugh:
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Gilly, I think your rubber is very special. It works inside out and both ways. :evil: :laugh:
tis true i assure you :wink:
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Gilly, I think your rubber is very special. It works inside out and both ways. :evil: :laugh:
tis true i assure you :wink:
But unfortunately she won't open her mouth for a BJ! :evil: :laugh:
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Gilly, I think your rubber is very special. It works inside out and both ways. :evil: :laugh:
tis true i assure you :wink:
But unfortunately she won't open her mouth for a BJ! :evil: :laugh:
she wont even drive straight now!! hit a kerb this morning :shocked:
just to note I dont think winter tyres would have helped much here.. unless they grip ice :undecided:
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she wont even drive straight now!! hit a kerb this morning :shocked:
just to note I dont think winter tyres would have helped much here.. unless they grip ice :undecided:
Judging by how much grip mine find in ice, they maybe would have helped.
Much damage?
Hopefully not...
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she wont even drive straight now!! hit a kerb this morning :shocked:
just to note I dont think winter tyres would have helped much here.. unless they grip ice :undecided:
Judging by how much grip mine find in ice, they maybe would have helped.
Much damage?
Hopefully not...
Well it was either kerb or truck that didnt stay in its lane. I chose kerb... although it seemed soo much worse it the time. Thought it was a full frontal/ front wing as the car wouldnt drive in a straight line (steering had to be at 180 degrees to go straight).
Getting out and inspecting and it was just the mirror casing and wheel out of shape. Strangely enough no damage to the monza's :smiley:
hmmm might just give those winter tyres a go after all!! :laugh:
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hmmm might just give those winter tyres a go after all!! :laugh:
My theory is that the cost of 1 accident pretty much pays for your winter tyres.
Pay day today, so I'm going to get something ordered in the next few days.
At least you're car didn't get much damage this time. Was your last accident not in the snow too?
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People on the radio today wittering on about how we don't "do" winter tyres in this country, oh the expense and all that.
Just doing the front pair cost me a princely £240. For goodness sake, that's peanuts, and it's postponed the need to replace the regular tyres until March. The garage man was going on about how expensive mine were, too - because of the wide performance tyre size. A couple for an ordinary motor are going to be pocket change.
And what's you're insurance excess, and how much will your premium go up if you have an accident, not to mention the extreme inconvenience - and possible injury or death!
Some people have no sense.
Rolfe.
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i've probably left this a bit late but after 2 days of 'moderate snow' i'm beginning to get a bit more worried about more and more. it's not been too bad in Greater Manchester but today i did have to dig out my driveway to park up. so is the consensus just getting a pair for the front sufficient?
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I was a bit dubious about just doing the front when my garage man suggested it, but so far I have no real problem with it. If I take a corner too fast the rear end will fly out, but there's a cure for that...!
Rolfe.
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i've probably left this a bit late but after 2 days of 'moderate snow' i'm beginning to get a bit more worried about more and more. it's not been too bad in Greater Manchester but today i did have to dig out my driveway to park up. so is the consensus just getting a pair for the front sufficient?
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
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I'm ordering some 15" steels + Continental TS180S Winter Contacts (M+S) from the BMW stealership for the Mini, for the princely sum of £420 - not too bad considering its dealer prices!
As mentioned, good tyres are a bit of a no-brainer, and my 215/45/18's are just plain dangerous in snow/ice.
Love the poll results, for the MK6 section, most cars must be worth £15k+ and 40% of you don't think ~£500 on tyres is a worthwhile spend, craziness.
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No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
Why? The fronts all of the work on the Golf (steering and drive) and if you were to change just two I would have thought these were the first to be changed? Rear wheel drive, a different story.
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I reckon for a lot of people its not so much the cash as the hassle....if you happen to live in a flat, where are you going to store 4 tyres? If we adopted the european approach whereby your local garage/dealer will quite happily store your winter setup & swap them over for you, a damn sight more people would bother. Also, once you've been in a properly booted car in this weather, you see the point within yards! As more people fit them, more will get to try them & (if you'll excuse the pun) things will snowball from there.
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No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
Why? The fronts all of the work on the Golf (steering and drive) and if you were to change just two I would have thought these were the first to be changed? Rear wheel drive, a different story.
Its always rears first regardless of drive. I'm on my phone, so it'll take too long to explain, google it ;)
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Well I seem to be getting on fine with only the front tyres changed. This was at the suggestion of my garage man, who didn't seem to want to be bothered doing all four! And it seemed to make sense, given that the AutoSocks go on the front wheels only for a front-wheel-drive, and doing that was very successful last year within the limits of these things.
And you don't want to know what I just negotiated to get in to work here. If only I'd brought my camera, I'd show you. Car is running like it was on caterpillar tracks though.
Rolfe.
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Well I seem to be getting on fine with only the front tyres changed. This was at the suggestion of my garage man, who didn't seem to want to be bothered doing all four! And it seemed to make sense, given that the AutoSocks go on the front wheels only for a front-wheel-drive, and doing that was very successful last year within the limits of these things.
You may think its working for you, but don't advise other people to do the same. Its just plain dangerous to upgrade front tyres over rears.
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I could understand an exhortation to change all four, so that the traction matches and the rear tyres will grip on the corners. I'm still in two minds about that, though as I said I'm getting on so well that I'm inclined to respect the garage's suggestion just to do the front pair.
However, you seem to be suggesting that changing the rears only is a better option.
This makes absolutely no sense to me, both in logical terms, and in view of my experience last year following the advice from the AutoSocks manufacturer.
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/car-snow-socks/
The advice is firmly to fit the things to the driving wheels. There is additional advice to fit a second pair to the front wheels of a rear-wheel-drive car to improve steering control. There is no need to fit a pair to the rear wheels of a front-wheel-drive model.
Now obviously that's for AutoSocks, in which you should not be going over 30mph anyway, and they do warn about unstable rear ends if you do anything unwise. As I said, I can see the argument for doing all four feet when fitting proper winter tyres. What I can't see by any stretch of logic is any argument for doing only the rear wheels on a front-wheel-drive car.
Rolfe.
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You may think its working for you, but don't advise other people to do the same. Its just plain dangerous to upgrade front tyres over rears.
You are talking utter rubish...on a FWD car, you need traction, steering and braking. Front wheels.
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I would change all 4 from experience. 2 is ok on the front for grip, braking and steering at low speeds. just like the autosocks.
as your speed builds summer tyres on the rear will just let go in the corners. good fun but certainly not the best option imo.
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Tyres arrived this morning, look to be a good bit of rubber. If these don't help I give up.
Off to get them fitted this afternoon. Haven't been able to get to work since Saturday so may just see an improvement tomorrow.
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You may think its working for you, but don't advise other people to do the same. Its just plain dangerous to upgrade front tyres over rears.
You are talking utter rubish...on a FWD car, you need traction, steering and braking. Front wheels.
No, I'm afraid I'm not. It really isn't up for debate - you ALWAYS change rear tyres first, understeer is controllable, snap oversteer isn't.
http://www.tyresafe.org/news-and-events/detail/motorists-get-their-tyres--back-to-front--/
http://www.celtictyres.co.uk/front-rear.php
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Tires-2359/2-New-tires.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5YsQ_a_ijA
etc.
You're wrong and you're giving out stupid and dangerous advice.
But as mentioned, for winter tyres, it is always recommended to fit 4 at once.
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I would change all 4 from experience. 2 is ok on the front for grip, braking and steering at low speeds. just like the autosocks.
as your speed builds summer tyres on the rear will just let go in the corners. good fun but certainly not the best option imo.
They do let go on the corners, that's true. I'm taking corners very carefully where there's snow lying.
I agree that doing all four is undoubtedly better, and that's what I originally intended to do - it was the garage who said, oh we'll just do the front pair.
An argument that doing the front pair only is not ideal, is clearly correct. Nevertheless, front-only appears to be a viable option if you're prepared to go easy on the cornering. An argument that suggests you might consider doing the rear pair only, which is what Ben appears to be saying, seems completely nuts.
Rolfe.
ETA: Ben's links are all about putting the newer/better pair of a set on the back rather than the front. They have nothing to do with the fitting of winter tyres.
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You're wrong and you're giving out stupid and dangerous advice.
It's true that an understeering car is easier for the average joe to control than an oversteering one and that fitting your new tyres on the back might make it safer in a specific emergency situation like aquaplaning around a corner. But to say it's dangerous to fit new tyres to the front is overkill.
Anyway, some of us are pretty good at catching oversteer. More to the point, there are still plenty of cars out there which inherently oversteer and they aren't classified as dangerous.
For traction in the snow in a front wheel drive car, fitting snow tyres to the front makes sense - you're hardly going to aquaplane on snow...
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No, I'm afraid I'm not. It really isn't up for debate - you ALWAYS change rear tyres first, understeer is controllable, snap oversteer isn't.
You're wrong and you're giving out stupid and dangerous advice.
But as mentioned, for winter tyres, it is always recommended to fit 4 at once.
Strange, that in 7 years of running winter tyres, you are the only one suggesting I fit them onto the rear of a FWD car first.
The issue is very much up for debate...understeer cannot be controlled with no grip...hence, winter tyres on the front - the steering axle.
But hey, you do what you like...and I shall continue to do as I find appropriate.
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Its nothing to do with aquaplaning - its to do with having no traction at the rear, compared to the front.
Liken it to driving round a car park with plastic trays under your rear wheels, it makes for a very unpredictable and uncontrollable driving experience. If you fit the new tyres to the rear, its easy to drive within your limitations, as you can feed in power and feel the loss of control. Fit new tyres on the front, and your driving feel won't change, giving you a false confidence going into bends or braking, where the rear end is extremely likely to step out.
Oversteer is controllable on a track or wide open, empty space - try and control it on a road with oncoming traffic and parked vehicles and you're likely to become unstuck.
Nevertheless, as I said, you're all driving £15k+ cars, why on earth would you only replace 2 tyres anyway!? It's all 4, or if you are **that** cheap, just the rears - there is no justification to change the fronts only.
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Thanks for the explanation, but I have a pretty good grasp of the laws of physics. Some of us learned to drive in/have owned rear engined RWD cars so are completely comfortable with oversteer.
Just because someone spends £15K+ on a car it doesn't mean they have bottomless pockets. I would imagine many just can't justify forking our for 4 tyres for just a few weeks use. Like many things in life, only buying two winter tyres is a (completely safe and acceptable) compromise. And arguably better than having no winter tyres at all.
As an aside, I once found myself sideways on a dual carriageway at 60mph due to aquaplaning - part worn tyres on the front axle and new tyres on the rear. In that instance, the location of the part worn tyres made no difference whatsoever.
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Here's the thing...
On a FWD car, with winter tyres on the rear, you will never have an accident, or loose the rear end because you will never go anywhere.
To suggest fitting 'snow' or 'winter' tyres to the rear of a Golf, in preference to the front (the bit that provuded the traction, steering and braking) is so utterly stupid it's not worth spending any more time on.
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As an aside, I once found myself sideways on a dual carriageway at 60mph due to aquaplaning - part worn tyres on the front axle and new tyres on the rear. In that instance, the location of the part worn tyres made no difference whatsoever.
There is also a perfectly sensible argument that suggests that in a modern car, with ESP, ABS and traction control, going sidewards will be corrected by the electronics within the limits of the forces of nature...cross the line, and you are on your own...and on your own with no grip at the front is an accident looking for a suitable location to occur.
At least with some front end grip you have a fighting chance...which is precisely one chance more than the chance you have with no front end grip.
You fit tyres where you think your level of skill in your car has the best chance of avoiding an accident.
If you are a clogg-footed, ham-fisted inbecile driving an old RWD car...I can see how the previous advice adds up.
On a FWD Mk6 Golf with ESP/ABS etc...I cannot.
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Its nothing to do with aquaplaning - its to do with having no traction at the rear, compared to the front.
Liken it to driving round a car park with plastic trays under your rear wheels, it makes for a very unpredictable and uncontrollable driving experience.
Lets keep the example simple, and try your analargy reversed.
Lets put the plastic trays under the front wheels...and see you explain how this aids traction/safety in snow?
Oh..I get it. It's uber safe because you don't move.
Legendary.
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Its nothing to do with aquaplaning - its to do with having no traction at the rear, compared to the front.
Liken it to driving round a car park with plastic trays under your rear wheels, it makes for a very unpredictable and uncontrollable driving experience.
Lets keep the example simple, and try your analargy reversed.
Lets put the plastic trays under the front wheels...and see you explain how this aids traction/safety in snow?
Oh..I get it. It's uber safe because you don't move.
Legendary.
Brilliant Glen. Could not have said it more eloquently. :smiley:
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Out of curiosity does anyone know whether Michellin would fit 2 winter tyres at the front or the rear?
I know any time I have went to get a new Michellin tyre from Costco they always put the new tyres to the rear regardless of any pleading from myself. They say Michellin will not allow them to fit the front only as all the traction is from the rear and just refer you to the numerous notices on the wall.
I know this is for summer tyres but just curious if anyone has got their winter tyres from Costco?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYjIDvSdzHQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Further to Rolfe's post and an example from the manufacturer.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYjIDvSdzHQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Further to Rolfe's post and an example from the manufacturer.
I think you'd better contact the foxy little redhead and tell her she's fitted them to the wrong end of the car.
She's far less likely to have the rear end swing round whilst sitting wheelspinning, stationary, on a snowy uphill road, if she fits them to the rear.
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:laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin:
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I can understand the original idea that replacing one tyre, of a known tread and compound, with a new version of the same, should involve fitting the 'new' or more heavily treaded tyre to the rear (although, not an idea I agree with or comply with)...
But when fitting winter tyres, you are replacing both the tread pattern and compound (and in many cases differing diameters and tread widths) with something designed to work to a completely different set of parameters.
It makes NO sense at all, fitting tyres with a rubber compound and tread pattern optimised for use below 7 degrees C and/or snow, to the rear of a FWD car...and I don't care what anybody says...it's illogical and bloody stupid.
Front, or all 4....on a Golf.
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This is the price of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 winter tyres from mytyres.
Gone up by nearly £100 in 1 week!
Pilot Alpin PA3 235/40 R18 95W XL with rim protectionleiste, GRNX
Our price only £338.50
:shocked:
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Just come back from work and ooops, seem to have started something. On the front wheel drive touring cars, I've heard that when the back starts to loose grip the driver will press on even more and let the front of the car drag it's way out of the slide. But I would hope that even with winter tyres fitted you would still be cautious on normal roads. The additonal comments tickled me, as I was eating my supper on a tea tray. :smiley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYjIDvSdzHQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Further to Rolfe's post and an example from the manufacturer.
O, I watched this and did like those gloves, I wondered what she was up to at first but soon became apparent :wink: Black would have been nicer
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
Note what happens around 1m30 on the next video (this is your front winters + all season rears)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
Yes, you are right, you'll move around a damn site faster with winter tyres on the front - and for this very reason, your the one likely to get caught out.
And, in the eyes of your insurance, I could bet that you would be liable for any accident given you set the car up in a deliberately dangerous fashion.
Slide sideways into a car - and it was you that lost control.
Slide straight into a car, and its open to interpretation.
Like I said, fit 4 and there's nothing to worry about.
And the logic that "you've been fine so far" is childish, I've never had a car bump - so with that logic, I could happily downgrade my insurance to theft and fire only.
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This is the price of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 winter tyres from mytyres.
Gone up by nearly £100 in 1 week!
Typical... easy money for them I guess.
Looks like I may have to wait for the snow to vanish before I go out and get my winter tyres / wheels then!
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awww sorry dudes looks like i started a stupid argument
I see the point about "fitting new tyres to the rear", about controlling understeer and the worry of oversteer, but that only applies for normal so called 'all-weather' and 'summer' tyres driving in the rain.
what i was asking about what specifically using winter tyres only on the front. for the slow speeds we're driving i honestly don't think oversteer is a worry.
and there is also the point made previously is where i keep my normal tyres or wheels in the meanwhile? unfortunately i don't have a big shed or garage or whatever to put them. even just 2 tyres are quite large and cumbersome. and say i did decide to go 'the full monty' and get 4 basic steel wheels and fit 4 winter tyres on, where do i put 4 monza shadows? that's a whole lotta room. i'm not like Am1w and sleep with them :sad: i can't exactly just leave them out on the street until the snow goes away.
yes i see it would make absolutely no sense putting winter tyres on the rear in our front-wheel drive GTIs - if i was stuck on a hill, without the added grip on the drive wheels, i would still be stuck on the bottom of the hill and the wheels would be spinning like crazy. for winter purposes it would either have to be a) swap all 4 b) swap the fronts only c) keep all 4 normal tyres and chance it
in any case i've had a few second thoughts about converting to winter rubber - it's not been so bad where i live and lately the roads i travel seem to have been cleared pretty well. the only real problems i've had are simply parking up at home. so i think for now i'm just going to chance it and drive really really slowly.
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big fat edit :grin:
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hmmm might just give those winter tyres a go after all!! :laugh:
My theory is that the cost of 1 accident pretty much pays for your winter tyres.
Pay day today, so I'm going to get something ordered in the next few days.
At least you're car didn't get much damage this time. Was your last accident not in the snow too?
sorry peeps missed the question. yes it was... crazy white man van understeered head on into me on a bend. about 6wks without car last time :undecided:
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Like I said, fit 4 and there's nothing to worry about.
No, that's not what you said.
Nobody is disputing that fitting four winter tyres is the best way to go. The question was, though, is it a practical solution just to do the front pair.
There are two reasonable answers to this. First, that the potential for the back end swinging out is too big a risk, you should do all four. Second, that although doing just the front is not optimal, it's better than doing none of them, and perfectly practical so long as you drive within the limits of the tyres you have fitted.
We could have a perfectly sensible discussion on that basis, as both points of view can clearly be defended rationally.
You, however, chose to take the line that if you're only going to fit one pair of winter tyres, you should fit them to the rear wheels. Of a front-wheel-drive car.
This is batcrap insane, which is what several people have been trying to get through to you.
Rolfe.
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TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.
does anyone have anything other than their personal opinion/logic that winter tyres should be fitted only to the front?
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TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.
No, I don't think he has. He has provided evidence relating only to the positioning of new and part-worn tyres of the same type. He has simply not addressed the question of a single pair of winter tyres at all.
does anyone have anything other than their personal opinion/logic that winter tyres should be fitted only to the front?
Nobody has said winter tyres should be fitted only to the front. Obviously, they should be fitted to all four wheels. The question is, can they be fitted to the front only, as a compromise. This is debatable either way.
Ben seems to be saying that if you want to fit only one pair, they should go on the back wheels. This is completely bonkers. This is what we're having the actual argument about.
There are several practical examples of front-wheel-drive cars running around on front winter tyres only. Mine for one, and I just found out yesterday that a work colleague who has a long and snowy drive to work has done the same thing, and has shown up bright and early every day while others were struggling in late or not making it at all.
I know of no example of anyone running rear-only winter tyres on a front-wheel-drive. Possibly because it's a batcrap insane thing to do. It completely negates the purpose of the exercise.
Getting back to the AutoSocks analogy, the recommendations for these are the product of a great deal of research, and they are approved by many car manufacturers, including VW. They essentially turn summer tyres into winter ones (and then some). The fitting instructions say, put them on the drive wheels. They then say, if you have a rear-wheel-drive car, it is recommended to fit a second pair to the front wheels, otherwise you are likely to lose steering control. There is no suggestion that a second rear pair is necessary on a front-wheel-drive car. All the promotional videos show the things being used on front-wheel-drive cars, on the front wheels only. They're not doing this because they're ignorant, ill-informed, or haven't done their research.
Rolfe.
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TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.
No, I don't think he has. He has provided evidence relating only to the positioning of new and part-worn tyres of the same type. He has simply not addressed the question of a single pair of winter tyres at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
Note what happens around 1m30 on the next video (this is your front winters + all season rears)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
Yes, you are right, you'll move around a damn site faster with winter tyres on the front - and for this very reason, your the one likely to get caught out.
And, in the eyes of your insurance, I could bet that you would be liable for any accident given you set the car up in a deliberately dangerous fashion.
Slide sideways into a car - and it was you that lost control.
Slide straight into a car, and its open to interpretation.
Like I said, fit 4 and there's nothing to worry about.
And the logic that "you've been fine so far" is childish, I've never had a car bump - so with that logic, I could happily downgrade my insurance to theft and fire only.
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It seems common sense does not prevail.
Front wheel drive - If fitting two winter tyres (:undecided:), fit them to the driven/steering wheels. Best to fit all four wheels.
Rear wheel drive - Best to fit to all four wheels. Driven wheels are rear so they need them, front wheels for steering so they need them too.
QED.
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Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.
For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.
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TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.
does anyone have anything other than their personal opinion/logic that winter tyres should be fitted only to the front?
Yes...the last 8 years of using them.
I'd not get out of my driveway with them fitted to the rear only, because I have a FWD Golf.
That's not personal opinion or logic. It's fact. It's been a fact for the last 8 years., It'll still be a fact in 8 years time.
If you want to try a slalom at speed, you may very well lose the rear end...that'll teach you for being so fu*king stupid as to try a stunt like that.
However, with grippy winter tyres on the rear only, I'll not be trying a slalom at speed, or otherwise, as I'll be stick fast in my driveway.
Also, call be cynical, but fancy a tyre maker suggesting you fit 4 winter tyres!
Well I never.
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Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.
For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.
It wasn't so much let, with my garage, as that was all I could persuade him to fit! I asked for all four, and he reluctantly got me two and fitted them on the front. I think he needs a bit more education, because clearly four are preferable, and if a customer is prepared to pay for four, why not?
However, it's not that bad. The point is, I drive as if the summer tyres were still on, and I don't get stuck. It's the last part I like.
And also what Ess_Three just said. It's not about driving a slalom at speed, it's about not getting stuck with your drive wheels spinning. Which I experienced all too often last winter, and have not suffered at all this year despite near-identical conditions.
Rolfe.
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Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.
For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.
You, sir, are a cretin for suggesting that people should stick to summer tyres over winters (even if only on the front).
Are you another shandy drinking southerner living on the south coast?
Do you live in the real world?
In snow, getting traction is the problem...even on summer tyres you'll get where you want to go if you can keep forward motion...winter tyres allow you to keep forward motion. In order to keep forward motion, you need to keep the driven wheels providing traction...the front wheels.
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I'm just wondering, how many of these internet experts quoting websites and posting links, actually deal with harsh winters year in, year out, and actually use snow tyres?
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I'm just wondering, how many of these internet experts quoting websites and posting links, actually deal with harsh winters year in, year out, and actually use snow tyres?
For the past 4 years I've lived just outside of Milngavie - I've used 4 winter tyres or not driven!
Don't get my wrong I understand your point, but a balanced predictable loss of grip is much easier to cope with than an unbalanced, unpredictable loss of grip. Winters on the rear won't affect the dynamics of the car negatively, you would have understeer with/without, but winters only on the front can easily cause the rear to break traction - making you liable in the event of an accident.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
Note what happens around 1m30 on the next video (this is your front winters + all season rears)
Congratulations, you've proved that all four wheels are better than just the fronts, if you're going to brake hard at speed. In other news, rain is still wet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
Congratulations, you've proved that all four wheels are better than just two, whichever wheels the two are fitted on. Precipitation remains damp.
It's not stated whether the car in that test is front or rear wheel drive. More importantly, the test doesn't compare winters on front to winters on rear. Your claim is that if you're only going to fit two winter tyres, you should put them on the rear wheels, even on a front-wheel-drive car. That is still batcrap insane.
Yes, you are right, you'll move around a damn site faster with winter tyres on the front - and for this very reason, your the one likely to get caught out.
If your point is that you're less likely to have an accident if you can't get out of your drive, or the office car park, or the side street you incautiously turned into, than if you're actually driving around, then hey wow, you win.
However, if your aim is getting the car actually moving, as opposed to sitting stationary spinning its front wheels, then you still have two points to prove. First, that putting winter tyres on the rear wheels gives any improvement over not fitting them at all, and second, that putting them on the rear wheels is better than putting them on the front wheels.
Rolfe.
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For the past 4 years I've lived just outside of Milngavie - I've used 4 winter tyres or not driven!
So what's prompting you to suggest putting two winter tyres on the rear wheels only? That's the ridiculous suggestion you're being mocked for.
Suggesting that all four should be changed and not just the front two is not a contentious point.
Rolfe.
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Getting back to the AutoSocks analogy, the recommendations for these are the product of a great deal of research, and they are approved by many car manufacturers, including VW. They essentially turn summer tyres into winter ones (and then some). The fitting instructions say, put them on the drive wheels. They then say, if you have a rear-wheel-drive car, it is recommended to fit a second pair to the front wheels, otherwise you are likely to lose steering control. There is no suggestion that a second rear pair is necessary on a front-wheel-drive car. All the promotional videos show the things being used on front-wheel-drive cars, on the front wheels only. They're not doing this because they're ignorant, ill-informed, or haven't done their research.
I'm going to email them and tell them they are actively making the roads more dangerous.
And as for Manufacturer and TUV approved - shock horror - these people obviously know nothing.
I'll suggest they read this thread for some education.
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Getting back to the AutoSocks analogy, the recommendations for these are the product of a great deal of research, and they are approved by many car manufacturers, including VW. They essentially turn summer tyres into winter ones (and then some). The fitting instructions say, put them on the drive wheels. They then say, if you have a rear-wheel-drive car, it is recommended to fit a second pair to the front wheels, otherwise you are likely to lose steering control. There is no suggestion that a second rear pair is necessary on a front-wheel-drive car. All the promotional videos show the things being used on front-wheel-drive cars, on the front wheels only. They're not doing this because they're ignorant, ill-informed, or haven't done their research.
I'm going to email them and tell them they are actively making the roads more dangerous.
And as for Manufacturer and TUV approved - shock horror - these people obviously know nothing.
I'll suggest they read this thread for some education.
Of course, AutoSocks should not be driven on over 30mph, so it's not entirely comparable. The horrors shown all happened at faster speeds, or performing silly manoeuvres.
However, I'd like to see what would happen to that car in the AutoSocks clip, if the things were put on the rear wheels. My bet is it wouldn't be any different from the "before" performance.
The point about two winter tyres (in front) is not to be able to go round slaloms at speed, or tear along at the sort of speed that makes hard braking necessary, it's to get moving at all without having to drag AutoSocks on and off all the time.
Ben thinks putting the winter tyres on the rear would be better, but it seems he hasn't tried it himself and he has provided absolutely zero evidence to support his position.
Rolfe.
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- making you liable in the event of an accident.
Let's get one thing clear. Winter tyres are not mandatory in the UK...therefore, as long as your tyres - summer or otherwise - are legal, you will be no more or less liable in the event of an accident.
That's just the way it is in the UK.
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However, I'd like to see what would happen to that car in the AutoSocks clip, if the things were put on the rear wheels. My bet is it wouldn't be any different from the "before" performance.
I'll tell you:
Foxy redhead fits Autosocks to rear wheels, Golf remains precisely where it is, wheelspinning, going nowhere....exactly as shown in the 'before' clip.
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Ben needs to stick to arguing that changing all four wheels is better than just doing two. Which is obviously true.
Whether one is prepared to accept the compromise inherent in doing only the front two, and adjust one's driving accordingly, is to a large extent an individual choice. Just having the front ones changed is obviously likely to cause the rear end to become unstable if you brake too hard or corner too fast.
The idea that there's any case at all to be made for doing the rear wheels only is still batcrap insane, any way you slice it. Give it up, Ben.
Rolfe.
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Ben needs to stick to arguing that changing all four wheels is better than just doing two. Which is obviously true.
Whether one is prepared to accept the compromise inherent in doing only the front two, and adjust one's driving accordingly, is to a large extent an individual choice. Just having the front ones changed is obviously likely to cause the rear end to become unstable if you brake too hard or corner too fast.
The idea that there's any case at all to be made for doing the rear wheels only is still batcrap insane, any way you slice it. Give it up, Ben.
Rolfe.
When on earth did I say change the rear wheels only!??!?!
No, I'm afraid I'm not. It really isn't up for debate - you ALWAYS change rear tyres first, understeer is controllable, snap oversteer isn't.
...
But as mentioned, for winter tyres, it is always recommended to fit 4 at once.
Nevertheless, as I said, you're all driving £15k+ cars, why on earth would you only replace 2 tyres anyway!? It's all 4, or if you are **that** cheap, just the rears - there is no justification to change the fronts only.
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
I've been fairly consistent with what I've been saying.
Change all 4 ... or if you insist on changing some, change the rears - so as to not compromise the stability of the car.
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- making you liable in the event of an accident.
Let's get one thing clear. Winter tyres are not mandatory in the UK...therefore, as long as your tyres - summer or otherwise - are legal, you will be no more or less liable in the event of an accident.
That's just the way it is in the UK.
Its nothing to do with rules/regs. You have deliberately set up your car in a dangerous fashion, with less grip over the rear wheels and IF you have an accident with your car sliding sideways into another car - you could become equally liable or even wholly liable.
Either way if the insurers found out you changed one set only, I'm 100% they'd pounce.
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... More importantly, the test doesn't compare winters on front to winters on rear ...
Pretty sure they did, watch them again ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
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Ben
You are either a wind up merchant or totally bonkers.
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I reckon for a lot of people its not so much the cash as the hassle....if you happen to live in a flat, where are you going to store 4 tyres? If we adopted the european approach whereby your local garage/dealer will quite happily store your winter setup & swap them over for you, a damn sight more people would bother. Also, once you've been in a properly booted car in this weather, you see the point within yards! As more people fit them, more will get to try them & (if you'll excuse the pun) things will snowball from there.
Kwik Fit now do this in their 'tyre hotels'. (About time too)
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He has an Italian sounding name.
All I can say to him, 'Shatupa you face'.
Ben Lessani - You are a Bloody Loon. You do, however, entertain.
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Its nothing to do with rules/regs. You have deliberately set up your car in a dangerous fashion, with less grip over the rear wheels and IF you have an accident with your car sliding sideways into another car - you could become equally liable or even wholly liable.
Either way if the insurers found out you changed one set only, I'm 100% they'd pounce.
You know, you just can't reason with some people.
It DOES NOT MATTER what tyres you have fitted in an accident, as long as they are LEGAL.
Fitting winter tyres to the front is NOT setting your car up dangerously...it's being sensible, and trying to go about your business without whining about the weather.
If your reasoning held any water at all, the French Hot Hatch market would have been outlawed back in 1986.
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You know, you just can't reason with some people.
I'm starting to realise this ... you're a stubborn bunch.
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I'm fed up of YouTube links, utter horse-feathers being talked and frankly ridiculous talk of being liable in the case of an accident if you fit 2 winter tyres.
I've had enough...this troll has got to me. Bravo.
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You know, you just can't reason with some people.
I'm starting to realise this ... you're a stubborn bunch.
All of whom appear to be wrong too.
Odd that.
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.
Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact
More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact
I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...
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Ben - give it a rest.
Unless you are driving along country roads at 60mph what you are saying is irrelevant.
The idea for most people is simply to get out of the driveway.
All four is the sensible option, obviously, but remember Rolfe is Scottish. :wink:
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Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.
For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.
You, sir, are a cretin for suggesting that people should stick to summer tyres over winters (even if only on the front).
Are you another shandy drinking southerner living on the south coast?
Do you live in the real world?
In snow, getting traction is the problem...even on summer tyres you'll get where you want to go if you can keep forward motion...winter tyres allow you to keep forward motion. In order to keep forward motion, you need to keep the driven wheels providing traction...the front wheels.
Where did I suggest people stick to summer tyres over winters? I'm just saying if you can't afford four winter tyres, don't bother with them at all. I have a set of (FOUR!) conti 830Ps waiting to be fitted tomorrow.
It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:
1. Bob fits two front winter tyres
2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres
3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car
Or:
1. Bob fits four winter tyres
2. Bob speeds around
3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.
OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.
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Agree entirely with SoVW :afro:
Unless you are driving along country roads at 60mph what you are saying is irrelevant.
Its really not, on snow/ice - you can easily break (lateral) traction at under 10mph. And on wet roads the margin is around 20-30 mph.
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.
Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact
More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact
I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...
What is the point in fitting winter tyres to the rear, and still not being able to get out of the driveway?
I give in…
With regards to ‘SNAP OVERSTEER’…have you ever experienced it on a VW?
I’ve been sprinting & Hillclimbing cars, and doing trackdays for 20+ years, wet and dry, in FWD VWs…some with big rear ARBs, and super-sticky front tyres only to deliberately try to provoke oversteer to kill understeer…and I’ve failed every time.
So, I find it hard to see how fitting winter tyres to the front of a Golf is going to turn my Golf into the ba$tard child of a 205 GTI and an early 911….especially given the fact that no driver should be hooning about in the snow anyway.
You have completely ignored references to ESP I notice…why don’t you go out and TRY to get a Mk6 to oversteer…if you can, you are a better driver than me.
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Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.
For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.
You, sir, are a cretin for suggesting that people should stick to summer tyres over winters (even if only on the front).
Are you another shandy drinking southerner living on the south coast?
Do you live in the real world?
In snow, getting traction is the problem...even on summer tyres you'll get where you want to go if you can keep forward motion...winter tyres allow you to keep forward motion. In order to keep forward motion, you need to keep the driven wheels providing traction...the front wheels.
Where did I suggest people stick to summer tyres over winters? I'm just saying if you can't afford four winter tyres, don't bother with them at all. I have a set of (FOUR!) conti 830Ps waiting to be fitted tomorrow.
It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:
1. Bob fits two front winter tyres
2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres
3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car
Or:
1. Bob fits four winter tyres
2. Bob speeds around
3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.
OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.
If Bob SPEEDS anywhere in the snow he is c@ck and deserves everything he gets! even with 4 winter tyres!
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.
Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact
More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact
I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...
Anyone that is driving fast enough in the snow to get SNAP oversteer is driving dangerously and therefore should not be driving in the first place!
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If Bob SPEEDS anywhere in the snow he is c@ck and deserves everything he gets! even with 4 winter tyres!
Here endeth the lesson.
Any sane driver will relise that if they need winter tyres in order to leave the driveway, that they should drive uber-slow and carefully...avoiding any high speed slalom courses, constant radius skid pan areas or areas where women with kids and prams are likely to leap out at them.
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I would like to know exactly who is actually ABLE to get a Mk6 GTI to 'snap oversteer' anyway, whilst leaving ESP engaged.
...and to deliberately try to provoke it takes dedication and driver inputs so far removed from road driving, they should be locked up if they manage it on the open road.
The Mk6 GTI is a VAG car...and so will ALWAYS understeer as standard...ESP on or off.
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... More importantly, the test doesn't compare winters on front to winters on rear ...
Pretty sure they did, watch them again ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
You know what? I just wasted five minutes of my life I'll never get back and watched both clips a second time. They were exactly the same as the first time I watched them.
First clip. Cornering test, car with four winter tyres performs better than car with winter tyres on the rear only. Slalom test, car with four winter tyres performs better than car with winter tyres on the front only. No comparison between front-only and rear-only. (And we do not know whether the car used was front or real wheel drive.)
Second clip. Four winter tyres performs better than four all-season tyres. Then front-only winters is compared to four winter tyres, and again unsurprisingly the four winters does better. There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winters. Gee, I wonder why not? Could it be because it's a completely stupid thing to do and nobody even considered it?
Rolfe.
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Forget winter tyres - here's the solution at a fraction of the cost! :laugh:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tyre-Grip-Spray-solution-safer-winter-/320624598062?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa6b71c2e
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When on earth did I say change the rear wheels only!??!?!
Er, lots and lots of times?
No, I'm afraid I'm not. It really isn't up for debate - you ALWAYS change rear tyres first, understeer is controllable, snap oversteer isn't.
Like there?
Nevertheless, as I said, you're all driving £15k+ cars, why on earth would you only replace 2 tyres anyway!? It's all 4, or if you are **that** cheap, just the rears - there is no justification to change the fronts only.
And there?
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
I've been fairly consistent with what I've been saying.
Change all 4 ... or if you insist on changing some, change the rears - so as to not compromise the stability of the car.
You have repeatedly insisted that it is better to fit a single pair of winter tyres to the rear wheels than to the front. This is batcrap insane, and what people are calling you on.
Get it into your head, everyone agrees that fitting four winter tyres is the best thing to do.
There are different opinions as to how acceptable the disadvantages are of fitting winter tyres to the front wheels only, in comparison to doing all four. Some people point to the rear-end instability and say it's not worth the risk, others say that this risk can be minimised by driving within the limits of the tyres. This is a sensible debate, with reasonable points on both sides.
You are declaring that A. it is better to fit a pair of winter tyres to the real wheels of a front-wheel-drive, than to the front wheels, and that B. it is better not to fit any winter tyres at all than to do the front only.
Both of these claims are bordering on the insane, and you have provided no backing for either of them.
Rolfe.
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Forget winter tyres - here's the solution at a fraction of the cost! :laugh:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tyre-Grip-Spray-solution-safer-winter-/320624598062?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa6b71c2e
There you do Rolfe.
Spray this on your rears and make Bender happy. :evil:
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.
Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact
More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact
If you're driving in snow/slush on any sort of tyres in such a way as to provoke understeer or oversteer, you're a dangerous lunatic.
More grip on the front wheels = not getting stuck on snow ridges in car parks or on the sides of roads - fact
More grip on the rear wheels = staying exactly where you were with your four summer tyres and spending the night in the car - fact
I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the front set, so you can actually get the bloody car moving.
If, once moving, you start driving like a raving lunatic, then hell mend you.
Rolfe.
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It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:
1. Bob fits two front winter tyres
2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres
3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car
Or:
1. Bob fits four winter tyres
2. Bob speeds around
3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.
OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.
I don't know who Bob is. My name is not Bob.
I'll give you an alternative scenario.
1. Roberta fits two front winter tyres.
2. Roberta is bloody relieved she isn't sliding all over the bloody road even on the flat, and can actually drive the car in and out of her drive, and up the hill to the main road.
3. Roberta gets to work on time every day, without taking time to haul AutoSocks on and off.
4. Roberta is very well aware that she still has summer tyres on the rear wheels, and as a result does not drive like a raving lunatic. In particular, she takes corners in snow as if she had four summer tyres, and always makes sure she has plenty stopping distance to avoid sudden braking.
5. Roberta sees child on pavement, slows down, and is able to brake in good order when required.
Roberta Rolfe.
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RR
A Rolls Royce post.
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Rolfe
You are are right, Ben is wrong - fact
Not sure about your garage guy/friend, he's obviously trying to save you money and that's a refreshing change but he maybe shouldn't do this against the advice of major manufacturers and fitters, any decent one would refuse to fit two winter tyres for the reasons already mentioned.
Yes, I know, it's a money thing and they're trying to sell you more tyres but four is best.
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Its really not, on snow/ice - you can easily break (lateral) traction at under 10mph. And on wet roads the margin is around 20-30 mph.
This is quite true. I did it a couple of times on purpose so I got a feel of where the limits of the new tyre set-up were.
Of course at under 10mph the rear wheels slid sideways a yard or two and then the car straightened up again....
If you want to drive around like Jackie Stewart on packed snow, you better fit four winter tyres for sure. If you're prepared to modify your driving to accommodate the limits imposed by the summer tyres on the rear wheels, there are still significant advantages to having winter tyres on the front. Like not getting stuck with your drive wheels spinning uselessly. Something which happened to me with distressing regularity last year, but which has not occurred at all this year in identical weather conditions.
Rolfe.
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again i'm so sorry for starting this argument. it's worser than the DSG vs Manual debate. i'll just stay in the corner with my summer tyres spinning but thankful in the knowledge i won't snap oversteer into somebody's precious facial features.
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Not sure about your garage guy/friend, he's obviously trying to save you money and that's a refreshing change but he maybe shouldn't do this against the advice of major manufacturers and fitters, any decent one would refuse to fit two winter tyres for the reasons already mentioned.
Yes, I know, it's a money thing and they're trying to sell you more tyres but four is best.
I'm very much inclined to agree with you. I was perfectly prepared to shell out for four winter tyres. Andrew was obviously trying to save me money. Remember, the relevant conversation occurred in October, when nobody thought we were in for a re-run of last January, in November.
In his favour, he has saved me money in the past by slithering out of doing something I asked him to do - most notably, repair the air conditioning on the Pug GTi-6, when it wasn't economic in point of fact, and when the scrappage scheme came in I really appreciated his attitude to that one. This time, I'm not convinced his judgement is entirely sound.
On the other hand, a work colleague yesterday said she had chosen simply to fit two front winter tyres also, and was getting on fine. I'm getting on fine too - mainly because the summit of my ambition on this was not to get stuck, and that objective has been achieved in spades.
Rolfe.
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again i'm so sorry for starting this argument. it's worser than the DSG vs Manual debate. i'll just stay in the corner with my summer tyres spinning but thankful in the knowledge i won't snap oversteer into somebody's precious facial features.
Hey, no, it's been an incredibly productive debate, thanks for starting it!
Rolfe.
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.... and thanks to GolfTi for strarting this thread. :smiley:
Is anyone still voting?
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Oops.
The Manual vs DSG Auto was my fault too.
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Oops.
The Manual vs DSG Auto was my fault too.
Attaboy. :grin:
Care to start another?
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OK.
Five requests and I'll locky locky.
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BTW, this is the second longest thread after the 'non-Monza Wheel' thread which has racked up 359 posts.
This is only 12 short!
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It's a pity we can't change our votes. People who originally voted "ordered" are probably in the "already fitted" bracket by now, and those "still thinking about it" may have made up their minds.
Rolfe.
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10 short!
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People can change their votes until 22.20 on 17-02-2011.
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With regards to ‘SNAP OVERSTEER’…have you ever experienced it on a VW?
Yes, what makes VWs unique?
You have completely ignored references to ESP I notice…why don’t you go out and TRY to get a Mk6 to oversteer…if you can, you are a better driver than me.
Because you never mentioned it? And wasn't there a MK6 owner that recently wrote their car off at 40mph on a bend they took every day by losing the rear and hitting another vehicle?
Second clip. Four winter tyres performs better than four all-season tyres. Then front-only winters is compared to four winter tyres, and again unsurprisingly the four winters does better. There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winters.
Erm ... yes there was, seriously, watch it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
When on earth did I say change the rear wheels only!??!?!
Er, lots and lots of times?
Oh my god, its like talking to a moron. I quite literally quoted myself every time I mentioned rear tyres and NOT ONCE did I ever advocate fitting winter tyres to just only the rear - every single time, I said, FIT ALL 4.
There is nothing WRONG about what I'm saying, its all 100% correct - you blame me for being argumentative, and you're just being plain ignorant. The same thing I've been saying, time and time again is irrefutable fact..
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.
Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact
More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact
I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...
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i've probably left this a bit late but after 2 days of 'moderate snow' i'm beginning to get a bit more worried about more and more. it's not been too bad in Greater Manchester but today i did have to dig out my driveway to park up. so is the consensus just getting a pair for the front sufficient?
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
No you did not.
What you 'meant' was not how you put it. So don't wriggle out of it.
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Not sure who the above was directed at?
But seriously, stop advising people that only fitting front winter's is a safe thing to do, its moronic, ignorant and dangerous - to not just yourself, but other road users.
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Not sure who the above was directed at?
But seriously, stop advising people that only fitting front winter's is a safe thing to do, its moronic, ignorant and dangerous - to not just yourself, but other road users.
Don't put words in other peoples' mouths.
It is you who gives the improper 'advice' to fit winter tyres to the rear wheels first on a front wheel drive car.
Drive your short wheelbase mini with just to rear winter tyres. The wheelbase is so short, it might as well be a two-wheeler.
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In summary then.
Winter tyres are much better in the winter than summer tyres.
Summer tyres are much better in the summer than winter tyres.
Buy four if you can.
If you can only buy two then:-
Fit them to the front if you want to get out of your driveway.
Fit them to the rear if you want to be safer going around corners.
Don't buy them if you want a good excuse for staying at home.
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It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:
1. Bob fits two front winter tyres
2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres
3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work
Or:
1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car
Or:
1. Bob fits four winter tyres
2. Bob speeds around
3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.
OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.
I don't know who Bob is. My name is not Bob.
I'll give you an alternative scenario.
1. Roberta fits two front winter tyres.
2. Roberta is bloody relieved she isn't sliding all over the bloody road even on the flat, and can actually drive the car in and out of her drive, and up the hill to the main road.
3. Roberta gets to work on time every day, without taking time to haul AutoSocks on and off.
4. Roberta is very well aware that she still has summer tyres on the rear wheels, and as a result does not drive like a raving lunatic. In particular, she takes corners in snow as if she had four summer tyres, and always makes sure she has plenty stopping distance to avoid sudden braking.
5. Roberta sees child on pavement, slows down, and is able to brake in good order when required.
Roberta Rolfe.
Roberta doesn't understand that when the snow has cleared her tyres will still have a lot more grip on the front than the back and as a result has a terrible accident when rushing to get to her nail appointment in heavy rain. She ends up with a scarred face and a life of guilt from running over a group of OAPs on their way to bingo.
FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.
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Lastly, I think BL 'thinks' his mini is a RWD BMW. :rolleyes:
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Second clip. Four winter tyres performs better than four all-season tyres. Then front-only winters is compared to four winter tyres, and again unsurprisingly the four winters does better. There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winters.
Erm ... yes there was, seriously, watch it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
What are you smoking? That's the third time I've watched that clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winter tyres. First winter tyres are shown to be superior to all-season tyres, then front-only winters are shown also to be inferior to four winter tyres. That's it. In other news, rain is still wet.
When on earth did I say change the rear wheels only!??!?!
Oh my god, its like talking to a moron. I quite literally quoted myself every time I mentioned rear tyres and NOT ONCE did I ever advocate fitting winter tyres to just only the rear - every single time, I said, FIT ALL 4.
Do you have some sort of weird memory loss? It's all there in black and white. You repeatedly said that if for whatever reason someone wanted only to fit two winter tyres, they should put them on the rear.
You said it again and again and again, repeatedly, in multiple posts.
THAT is moronic.
I keep saying, [....] IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set ...
There you go again. Completely idiotic, ignorant and insane.
Rolfe.
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Dumb and Dumber at it again.
Now Dumber is worried about Rolfe when the snow clears.
Is there no stopping this idiotic duo?
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Yes, what makes VWs unique?
Unless you've had your head up your own arse over the last 20 years, you'll know VWs understeer...they are set up to do so, and anyone who competes in one the world over fights it. It plagues them...killing lap times.
Except yours it appears.
The one and only VW that oversteers.
Because you never mentioned it?
So you choose to ignore ESP because I never mentioned it. I have air in my tyres...but haven't mentioned it...so do you assume I do, or don't?
I'd say something that's a fundamental part of a modern VW is safe to assume does not need specific reference..ESP is on...you can't fully disengage it...which is why is's frustrating on the track, but such a positive thing on the road.
Now, snap oversteer...to me that's what happens when something breaks and it all goes wrong in a split second, at high speed.
When a tyre breaks traction, you have a progressive loss of traction. Not the same.
So, explain again, how at say 30-40 MPH, my Mk6 GTI with it's ESP, is going to swap ends on a sixpence with me having no say in the matter...I am after all still in charge of the steering wheel. I haven't specifically mentioned it previously, but I thought it safe to assume you'd know that.
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Roberta doesn't understand that when the snow has cleared her tyres will still have a lot more grip on the front than the back and as a result has a terrible accident when rushing to get to her nail appointment in heavy rain. She ends up with a scarred face and a life of guilt from running over a group of OAPs on their way to bingo.
Anyone can have an accident they'll regret forever, while doing something stupid. Nail appointment or not.
FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.
Maybe you could point out where anyone at all was either cheapskate (someone mentioned shortage of storage space for four tyres, that was about it), or where anyone actually "spouted advice" to fit only two winter tyres.
Because I don't recall anyone doing either.
For my own part, I reported that although I requested four winter tyres, my garage only supplied two, but that in fact they were doing what I wanted, which was preventing me getting stuck in wheelspin.
If you want to make a case that this is not in fact a safe setup, then I'm listening, because it wasn't my idea in the first place anyway and I can see the rationale.
The actual argument that has been going on, however, is with that idiot Ben who thinks fitting two rear winter tyres only is somehow a good idea.
Rolfe.
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Roberta doesn't understand that when the snow has cleared her tyres will still have a lot more grip on the front than the back and as a result has a terrible accident when rushing to get to her nail appointment in heavy rain. She ends up with a scarred face and a life of guilt from running over a group of OAPs on their way to bingo.
Another ignorant cretin.
Why do they come here?
Can't you go play elsewhere?
FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.
Maybe you should take your troll attitude back to one of the other forums?
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Just to add fuel to the fire, read this thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=933323&i=20&mid=0&nmt=Just%20fit%20winter%20tyres%20to%20the%20drive%20wheels?
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It's a fact that four winter tyres is safer than two. By having topics on forums like this where people suggest it is fine to have two on the front, it is putting innocent people's safety at risk.
Because someone will google "Winter tyres", come here and think it is fine to just have to two without understanding the possible ramifications, or reading through all our bickering. As enthusiasts we should be doing everything we can to educate the dumber public and each other on such matters. If you can't understand that I give up.
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It's not our preacher under a different user name is it?
Funny how the basic realisation that "we'll all be 'safe as f*ck' with winter tyres on the back, because nobody can actualy drive anywhere" comes through again.
The PH argument of different tread patterns and compounds and hence inherently different tyre behaviours also begs the question:
Why is it legal to have differing makes of tyre front to rear?
Or even accross the same axle?
Surely if the risk to life was oh-so-high, it would be illegal?
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It's a fact that four winter tyres is safer than two. By having topics on forums like this where people suggest it is fine to have two on the front, it is putting innocent people's safety at risk.
Because someone will google "Winter tyres", come here and think it is fine to just have to two without understanding the possible ramifications, or reading through all our bickering. As enthusiasts we should be doing everything we can to educate the dumber public and each other on such matters. If you can't understand that I give up.
I understand the basics...I've been running winter tyres for the last 7-8 years, on all 4 wheels...so heaven help me, I, more than many understand the basic argument.
I also consider myself an enthusiast, quick road driver and clubman competitor on and off.
But it's -6 outside and there is 10" of snow on the ground. I am not interested in driving enthusiastically...I just want to go to Tescos for some fresh food, and return home safely.
If Joe Public is too stupid to fit winter tyres, let them stay at home...which removes their vehicles from the roads, in turn making it harder for me to collide with anything. Job done.
4 is undoubtedly safer than 2...but some of the scaremongering associated with the fitting of front winter tyres is just rubbish.
Drive accordingly in winter, and the speeds shouldn't differ winter>summer tyres...but the traction when pulling away sure will.
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I'm leaving this topic. I'm sorry if I annoyed anyone or offended them, that wasn't really my intention and if you look at my history here you'll see I'm not a troll or (at least hopefully not) a cretin.
Yes maybe the risk is lower than I've made out, but I like reducing risks where possible so perhaps got a bit over-enthusiastic...sorry. :)
Oh and I've spent the last few days obsessing over winter tyres while waiting for my first ever set to arrive, so that's partly my excuse.
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I'm leaving this topic. I'm sorry if I annoyed anyone or offended them, that wasn't really my intention and if you look at my history here you'll see I'm not a troll or (at least hopefully not) a cretin.
Yes maybe the risk is lower than I've made out, but I like reducing risks where possible so perhaps got a bit over-enthusiastic...sorry. :)
Oh and I've spent the last few days obsessing over winter tyres while waiting for my first ever set to arrive, so that's partly my excuse.
Fair enough. I don't think anyone is disputing that fitting all four tyres is preferable. The real discussion is whether fitting only the front wheels is an acceptable compromise or not. There's room for disagreement on that, obviously. If you want to drive around in the snow like Stirling Moss, then it's a no-brainer. If your main objective is to get out of your drive and as far as the main road without getting stuck, then drive as if you're wearing summer tyres anyway, then there's more of a debate.
It's interesting that the two videos Ben linked to were tyre manufacturers who seemed to feel a marketing need to convince people that fitting only two tyres is dangerous. If it was as dangerous as that, few people would be doing it I suspect, and it would probably be illegal in Canada.
The really brainless part of the thread was Ben and his insistence that fitting a single pair on the rear was preferable to fitting a single pair in front. I'm afraid intransigent bone-headedness like that brings out the debater in me....
Rolfe.
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... that brings out the debater in me....
Rolfe.
I really like a good mass debate :smiley: :huh: :embarassed:
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FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.
aww dude it's not just about being a cheap skate. i was considering getting all 4 tyres swapped for winters, but when it warms up again and i have to swap them back, what do i do with the winter tyres? 4 tyres takes up a hefty amount of space. it wouldn't make sense for me to just throw them away would it?
all i was originally asking was whether just having winters on the fronts is enough, mainly just to get me where i need to go. none of us here are in the business of having an accident. i'm not exactly going to be bombing it down country lanes like Tommi Makinen - i think most of us are sensible enough to know better.
neither will having all 4 tyres swapped to winter rubber make you completely immune to accidents.
to be honest i don't think i'm ever going to bother with winter tyres, until such a time they may be a legal requirement in the UK. i don't really feel i travel the distances to justify spending hundreds and then taking the off only to store them somewhere where i have no space until the next winter.
today i did have problems getting up a hill. front drive wheels spinning like crazy, and lots of yellow light flashing on the dash. luckily some guys walking by (or waiting for stranded motorists...) gave me a push. thanks fellas! i was well in trouble without them
i might give the Autosocks/snowsocks or a chain a go though, that's a more sensible proposition in my circumstances. when i'm not using them i could just easily fold it away and not need lots of room to store 4 whole tyres. i promise to drive slowly in the snow mummy.
apparently you can get a pair for £50 from any Vauxhall dealer
http://www.news-insurances.com/car-insurance-snow-socks-for-your-car/0167471080
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oh also this goes off in a bit of a tangent but still on the topic of winter tyres, here's what our Secretary of State for Transport the right honourable Philip Hammond apparently said recently:
"Winter tyres wear out very quickly on normal road surfaces and cause significant damage to those surfaces, so they would not be appropriate in the UK situation"
http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/12/03/transport-minister-slammed-over-confused-winter-tyre-message/
Yep this is the TRANSPORT SECRETARY.
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Just to add fuel to the fire, read this thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=933323&i=20&mid=0&nmt=Just%20fit%20winter%20tyres%20to%20the%20drive%20wheels?
That's actually a very good thread, and what this one might have been without Ben making ridiculous statements he feels he has to either defend or pretend he didn't make in the first place.
People declaring that theoretically front-only winters would be dangerous because this or that could happen, against people who've done it for years and had no trouble, because they drive within the limits of their set-up.
Several particularly interesting points. First, that those YouTube clips Ben linked to are tyre manufacturers trying to persuade people to buy twice as much of their product. The cars are being driven far too fast on packed snow and being braked and cornered sharply, specifically to force the rear tyres to lose grip. The driver may well be encouraging the oversteer or understeer or whatever the hell it was happened.
Second, that Americans drive around on front-only winter tyres all the time, and given what a litigious bunch they are, if it was as dangerous as some people are making out, this would not be happening.
And then this one.
I said with ABS (as found on the majority of cars on our roads and every new production car, so don't say it's not a fair argument!), which nullifies any arguments relating to brake bias. ABS is designed to allow you to stop in a controlled manner even when there are different grip levels at each of the 4 wheels. In fact, ABS would be able to make best use of the extra grip afforded by the winter tyres and you would stop significantly quicker and in full control.
I hadn't thought of that part. The video clip where the rear of the car with the front-only winters tries to overtake the front, had the ABS switched off. It said so. Hey, only one of these cars has ABS, so to be fair we switched off the ABS on the other car as well.
Yeah, guys, like you're going to switch off your ABS before you set off in the snow.
Would the ABS keep the car straight anyway, in the hard braking situation?
Rolfe.
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oh also this goes off in a bit of a tangent but still on the topic of winter tyres, here's what our Secretary of State for Transport the right honourable Philip Hammond apparently said recently:
"Winter tyres wear out very quickly on normal road surfaces and cause significant damage to those surfaces, so they would not be appropriate in the UK situation"
http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/12/03/transport-minister-slammed-over-confused-winter-tyre-message/
Yep this is the TRANSPORT SECRETARY.
What an unmitigated prat. Who elects these morons?
Rolfe.
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i might give the Autosocks/snowsocks or a chain a go though, that's a more sensible proposition in my circumstances. when i'm not using them i could just easily fold it away and not need lots of room to store 4 whole tyres. i promise to drive slowly in the snow mummy.
apparently you can get a pair for £50 from any Vauxhall dealer
http://www.news-insurances.com/car-insurance-snow-socks-for-your-car/0167471080
Before you go for these (cheapskate!), read the AutoSocks page.
These cheap knock-offs are infringing the Autosocks patent (they claim), and are also vastly inferior. This could be department of "they would say that wouldn't they", but it could in fact be honest truth.
http://www.roofbox.co.uk/car-snow-socks/copiers.php
Rolfe.
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What an unmitigated prat. Who elects these morons?
Erm.... I did. :sad:
Actually I'm not ashamed to admit I actually voted Lib Dem. But sort of regretting it a bit with all the student tuition fee thing.... but that's another topic altogether!
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What are peoples' opinions on just having the original alloys and changing summer and winter tyres onto them as necessary.
Is this too sore on a single set of alloys having to change tyres twice a year?
Is it ok to fit, remove then re-fit tyres several times times until they are worn out?
Is anyone doing this?
Thanks,
ILT
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What are peoples' opinions on just having the original alloys and changing summer and winter tyres onto them as necessary.
Is this too sore on a single set of alloys having to change tyres twice a year?
Is it ok to fit, remove then re-fit tyres several times times until they are worn out?
Is anyone doing this?
Thanks,
ILT
I have the ordinary 17" alloys, much to the disdain of a lot of posters here. I just don't get off on looking at the wheels of my car when it's parked. I'm also not paranoid about kerbing the damn things, life's too short.
I just had the winter tyres fitted on the existing alloys. I don't see the problem in changing them backwards and forwards.
People who have the 18" Monza Shadows may be of a different opinion, for several reasons.
Rolfe.
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I've got 17" Monza's for my Summer tyres (much to the disdain of some :laugh: ) and 17" VW Exis STP for my winters. I don't like the idea of taking a tyre on and off a rim. Also leaves it in my hands to change the wheels back and forward when I want to
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Unless you've had your head up your own arse over the last 20 years, you'll know VWs understeer...they are set up to do so
EVERY FWD is set up to understeer - BECAUSE IT IS CONTROLLABLE.
Understeer - controllable
Oversteer - uncontrollable
What causes oversteer ... less grip on the back wheels ... what would cause that, having BETTER grip on the front wheels.
So, lets re-iterate.
Understeer - controllable
Oversteer - uncontrollable
Because you never mentioned it?
So you choose to ignore ESP because I never mentioned it.
OMFG - are you insane? You asked me why I chose to ignore your statement about ESP - when you HADN'T mentioned ESP? How am I supposed to comment on something that you haven't even said?!?!
When a tyre breaks traction, you have a progressive loss of traction.
No, you really don't - not when you have different front/rear tyres and are driving on unpredictable road surfaces.
So, explain again, how at say 30-40 MPH, my Mk6 GTI with it's ESP, is going to swap ends on a sixpence with me having no say in the matter...I am after all still in charge of the steering wheel. I haven't specifically mentioned it previously, but I thought it safe to assume you'd know that.
I REALLY don't understand your problem. You claim to have "years of experience" and are preaching on and on, but can't understand, how, in wet/slushy/snowy/icy conditions that a car could loose grip - EVEN with ALL of your years of experience and electrical aids.
You honestly baffle me. You make it sound like its not possible to have an accident in GOOD conditions with tyres that are actually balanced front/rear at 30 MPH, let alone in winter conditions.
I don't normally argue to this extent, but you are giving out STUPID and frankly DANGEROUS advice. If you choose to run a car with winters on the front - so be it, its your choice. BUT don't recommend it to other people as a viable alternative.
You know for a fact that what I am saying is correct - but I don't know why you can't actually agree?
4 all season tyres - balanced and even - poor grip all round
2 rear winters - balanced and even - poor grip all round - same handling characteristics as a normal car.
2 front winters - unbalanced, risk of oversteer, good grip up front, poor grip at rear
4 winters - balanced and even - good grip all round
I don't know whether you are choosing to ignore this or not, but I keep saying, fitting winter tyres on the rear - will not in any way enhance the overall grip in snow. No, you won't be able to put "pull out the drive", no, you won't be able to climb hills, and yes, you will get overtaken by other drivers with winter tyres on the front. They won't enhance your winter driving experience one bit, BUT the key difference is that you haven't altered the way the car was designed to drive.
As you said, FWD cars are intentionally built to encourage understeer, because its safer, and more controllable than oversteer. Yet, by fitting front winter tyres and std rear tyres - you are creating the opportunity for the car to oversteer. Don't you get it?!
I really, really, really don't know how you can argue with me - I'm just stating fact. The only thing you are providing is opinion.
For those wanting to know where to store their summer wheels, some dealerships offer to store them on your behalf.
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I have the ordinary 17" alloys, much to the disdain of a lot of posters here. I just don't get off on looking at the wheels of my car when it's parked. I'm also not paranoid about kerbing the damn things, life's too short.
Agree.
The dealer tried to tell me that a set of 18" alloys would look really good on the car. I thought the original alloys looked fine. I'd rather spend the money on something useful rather than cosmetic.
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Oh, and for the record, I'm glad I've only got a MK2 and a Mini, it means less time spent in here, around *some* of the pretentious MK6 owners - who can't differentiate between fact and opinion.
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I'm starting to get really pissed off with the crap your spouting and can only think your just trying to bait people. For gawds sake man give it a rest.
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I'm starting to get really pissed off with the crap your spouting and can only think your just trying to bait people. For gawds sake man give it a rest.
Bait nothing. Tell me what "crap" I've spouted exactly?
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... Before you go for these (cheapskate!), read the AutoSocks page.
Awww fake DVDs, fake computer games, PSP games consoles, fake cameras, fake banknotes, fake bankers drafts, fake cola, fake nappies, fake baby milk, fake Gibson Les Paul copies, fake teeth, fake boobs, fake orgasms and now fake Autosocks *sad-face*
have they made a fake GTI yet?
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Get back to the 80's Ben my man.
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Bait nothing. Tell me what "crap" I've spouted exactly?
Ben, it's not the "facts" you're spouting, it's the "opinion" you have on the dangers of fitting winter tyres to the front axle. Some of us are obviously less risk-averse than you are. Perhaps sometimes it's better to accept that others have a different opinion to you rather than suggest they are moronic.
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Bait nothing. Tell me what "crap" I've spouted exactly?
Ben, it's not the "facts" you're spouting, it's the "opinion" you have on the dangers of fitting winter tyres to the front axle. Some of us are obviously less risk-averse than you are. Perhaps sometimes it's better to accept that others have a different opinion to you rather than suggest they are moronic.
Its not my opinion, its a fact.
I've already said those people are entitled to their opinion, just don't recommend it to others - its dangerous.
Ignore me all you like - decide I'm wrong, stupid, argumentative, but for the love of god, don't go recommending dangerous set-ups to others (and that's all I'm trying to prevent).
Spend 10 mins watching these in sequence, if they really don't convince you that fitting winters only on the front, I give up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P03wqClnq-0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX1UmYG1nyk&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKw3HffVJrk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFYXOJ5KEXM&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqDJdYc8OYc&feature=fvw
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I don't know whether you are choosing to ignore this or not, but I keep saying, fitting winter tyres on the rear - will not in any way enhance the overall grip in snow. No, you won't be able to put "pull out the drive", no, you won't be able to climb hills, and yes, you will get overtaken by other drivers with winter tyres on the front. They won't enhance your winter driving experience one bit, BUT the key difference is that you haven't altered the way the car was designed to drive.
So why the %$*&£ did you repeatedly suggest that people fit winter tyres to the rear wheels? Why even raise the subject? Nobody else did.
Fitting winter tyres on the rear, according to your latest post, will do precisely bugger-all as compared to just leaving the summer tyres on.
So again I ask, why did you repeatedly suggest that people who were too cheap to buy four winter tyres, should buy two and fit them to the rear?
You're mad, you know.
Now, about this dangerous practice of fitting winter tyres to the front only. Could you point me to one country (where winters are not mandatory) where this practice is illegal? Any explanation of why it's common in America, even though Americans will sue you at the merest hint of liability? Any explanation of why so many people seem to find it a perfectly workable solution?
Got any accident statistics to show how often cars with front-only winters are involved in incidents in comparison to all-summer wheels in winter time, say?
Or are you just parroting "facts" you've read elsewhere and give credence to, without any practical experience of the issue?
Rolfe.
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Having a drastic difference in grip between the front and rear axle is highly unadvisable. Avoid this situation if you can at all help it.
When it comes to fitting two new tyres (whether it be summer, all-season, winter or snow tyres) to whichever axle, let it be clear there is no such thing as "the better" option, it is more about the "least worst" option.
The German Automobile Club (ADAC) conducted a test, by fitting gripper tyres on the FRONT axle, and ended up with the following results:
Pros
- Reduced aquaplaning when cornering.
- Significant reduction in braking distances when slippery.
- Slight reduction in braking distances when dry.
Cons
- Significant likelihood of snap oversteer (on cars without ESP).
- Likelihood of snap oversteer on cars with ESP is reduced, but if the limits of the ESP are breached (they cannot bend the laws of physics) then the ensuing break in traction tends to be more violent and uncontrollable.
The conclusion reached by ADAC is to fit gripper tyres on the rear axle. Hence, the recommendation of tyre manufacturers and motoring organisations stems from their goal to prevent any situation which could lead to snap oversteer in slippery conditions, which in their opinion overrides the benefits from fitting gripper tyres on the front axle. Essentially, their priority is ensuring and maintaining stability on the road.
My opinion - you're pretty much f***ed either way.
However, different drivers have different priorities, and if you're intelligent and mature enough to look all the facts, and take into account local conditions, then you can probably make your own decision accordingly.
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EVERY FWD is set up to understeer - BECAUSE IT IS CONTROLLABLE.
Not every FWD car is set to understeer at all.
How many have you driven?
Do you actually drive? Or just read things on the internet and sprout them as fact.
Ever driven a Clio Cup / Integra Type R/ 205 GTI?
They don’t understeer. Understeer is dialled in by VAG
OMFG - are you insane? You asked me why I chose to ignore your statement about ESP - when you HADN'T mentioned ESP? How am I supposed to comment on something that you haven't even said?!?!
Because it’s standard on the cars. A bit like having 4 wheels…and I don’t need to tell you that.
ESP changes things…a fact you conveniently choose to ignore…and this is the Mk6 GTI forum, is it not?
So all cars have it fitted…a bit like seats, an engine and 4 wheels. We don’t need to mention it because we are all clever enough to realise the GTI comes with them.
I REALLY don't understand your problem. You claim to have "years of experience" and are preaching on and on, but can't understand, how, in wet/slushy/snowy/icy conditions that a car could loose grip - EVEN with ALL of your years of experience and electrical aids.
You don’t read so well do you?
Any car can lose control, if driven by a bellend in a manner totally unsuitable for the consitions.
You drive a Mk6 GTI with winter tyres on the front (a car you evidently have Sooooo much experience of) in a suitable manner, and you will be no more likely to have an accident than a car with no winter tyres on…and you will still have the ability to pull away and brake.
That’s from experience. Not the internet.
You honestly baffle me. You make it sound like its not possible to have an accident in GOOD conditions with tyres that are actually balanced front/rear at 30 MPH, let alone in winter conditions.
There is no reason ANY accident should occur at 30 MPH in good conditions if the driver has a decent sense of awareness and a reasonable level of driving skill.
Actually, in winter, cars don’t just have accidents…accidents happen due to exterior inputs…make sure those inputs are measured, drive accordingly, and there is no reason ANY accident should occur at 30 MPH in winter conditions if the driver has a decent sense of awareness and a reasonable level of driving skill.
You know for a fact that what I am saying is correct - but I don't know why you can't actually agree?
I’ll not agree with anyone so unbelievably stupid as to suggest you are better off with winter tyres on the rear, and chooses to ignore the fact that you’ll not actually get the car moving, with them on the rear.
I hear all the stuff about balance…but you claim to have tried winter tyres…you try telling me that the difference in grip is so huge that the car will snap oversteer in normal driving? It’s utter crap. Winter tyres are an advantage...not a miracle cure for no grip.
I don't know whether you are choosing to ignore this or not, but I keep saying, fitting winter tyres on the rear - will not in any way enhance the overall grip in snow. No, you won't be able to put "pull out the drive", no, you won't be able to climb hills, and yes, you will get overtaken by other drivers with winter tyres on the front. They won't enhance your winter driving experience one bit, BUT the key difference is that you haven't altered the way the car was designed to drive.
Ahh…so your advice is to fit them on the rear, and stay stuck in the driveway.
We’ve gone full circle.
Utter genius.
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There is no reason ANY accident should occur at 30 MPH in good conditions if the driver has a decent sense of awareness and a reasonable level of driving skill.
No, there isn't, but it happens - why encourage it.
to suggest you are better off with winter tyres on the rear, and chooses to ignore the fact that you’ll not actually get the car moving, with them on the rear.
For THAT VERY reason, the lack of traction the non-winters have on the front ... would all of a sudden be at the rear (once the winters are on the front).
Ahh…so your advice is to fit them on the rear, and stay stuck in the driveway.
No. Its not. My advice is that fitting winter tyres on the rear WILL NOT change the way the car handles negatively. It would have no discernable effect on the car.
BUT by fitting winter tyres only to the front, you are provoking a dangerous situation by unbalancing the grip on the car.
Just a quick recap, (again)
4 all season tyres - balanced and even - poor grip all round
2 rear winters - balanced and even - poor grip all round - same handling characteristics as a normal car.
2 front winters - unbalanced, risk of oversteer, good grip up front, poor grip at rear
4 winters - balanced and even - good grip all round
I don't know whether you are choosing to ignore this or not, but I keep saying, fitting winter tyres on the rear - will not in any way enhance the overall grip in snow. No, you won't be able to put "pull out the drive", no, you won't be able to climb hills, and yes, you will get overtaken by other drivers with winter tyres on the front. They won't enhance your winter driving experience one bit, BUT the key difference is that you haven't altered the way the car was designed to drive.
Having a drastic difference in grip between the front and rear axle is highly unadvisable. Avoid this situation if you can at all help it.
When it comes to fitting two new tyres (whether it be summer, all-season, winter or snow tyres) to whichever axle, let it be clear there is no such thing as "the better" option, it is more about the "least worst" option.
The German Automobile Club (ADAC) conducted a test, by fitting gripper tyres on the FRONT axle, and ended up with the following results:
Pros
- Reduced aquaplaning when cornering.
- Significant reduction in braking distances when slippery.
- Slight reduction in braking distances when dry.
Cons
- Significant likelihood of snap oversteer (on cars without ESP).
- Likelihood of snap oversteer on cars with ESP is reduced, but if the limits of the ESP are breached (they cannot bend the laws of physics) then the ensuing break in traction tends to be more violent and uncontrollable.
The conclusion reached by ADAC is to fit gripper tyres on the rear axle. Hence, the recommendation of tyre manufacturers and motoring organisations stems from their goal to prevent any situation which could lead to snap oversteer in slippery conditions, which in their opinion overrides the benefits from fitting gripper tyres on the front axle. Essentially, their priority is ensuring and maintaining stability on the road.
My opinion - you're pretty much f***ed either way.
However, different drivers have different priorities, and if you're intelligent and mature enough to look all the facts, and take into account local conditions, then you can probably make your own decision accordingly.
Spot on :afro:
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Question to Ben:
If only two winter tyres were available, (let's not go into the two versus four argument as we know the answer to that one), to be fitted to Rolfe's FWD car as she needed TRACTION to get out of her drive, which axle would you fit them on?
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I've got 17" Monza's for my Summer tyres (much to the disdain of some :laugh: ) and 17" VW Exis STP for my winters. I don't like the idea of taking a tyre on and off a rim. Also leaves it in my hands to change the wheels back and forward when I want to
Has anyone any experience of swapping tyres on and off the same rims say 5/6 times?
I looked at buying another set of rims. Was going to be over £800 pounds for a set of VW 205/55/R16 (which someone here said was the VW recommended size for winter tyres for a GTI).
Local tyre place said they would swap the tyres on the rims for £20. Works out a lot cheaper. Ok a set of 16" tyres will be slightly cheaper. Then there is the issue that the insurance company may not be happy with different alloys fitted.
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Just remember you risk the chance of your wheels being marked every time the mechanic levers away at the tyre. To some that might not matter though.
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Question to Ben:
If only two winter tyres were available, (let's not go into the two versus four argument as we know the answer to that one), to be fitted to Rolfe's FWD car as she needed TRACTION to get out of her drive, which axle would you fit them on?
Purely for TRACTION getting out of her drive, obviously the front.
For SAFETY and driving around in general, the rear.
I just can't advise deliberately unbalancing the car, its well known that better tyres (better grip) should be on the rear. Emergency situations being the exception (snow socks/chains) where you'll be crawling around under 10mph anyway.
BUT, we're in the situation, where someone who hasn't used winter tyres before - who, we could safely say, perhaps isn't the most experienced winter driver, is asking the question.
Accidents tend to happen because people exceed the limits of their skill or grip. By having winters up front only, it can give you a massive sense of false confidence, yes, it will brake better, yes, it will accelerate better and yes, it will reduce understeer. So after a few days of having exceptional grip by comparison to all seasons, the driver finds the car handles not too dis-similarly. But its that **one** time, when the rear end breaks loose when accidents happen.
Even worse still is the likelihood of being at high speed on what appear to be normal gritted roads, when the imbalance in grip will causes an ever-increasing chance of oversteer.
I've been in the situation with good tyres up front (wets), and poor tyres at the rear (summers). Both had equal tread levels, and to any observer, looks perfectly safe. But on two occasions, the car snapped, and spun out, once at around 25 mph on a big roundabout, and another at around 35 mph on a country road.
It can happen so easily in summer, combine that with sub 10 deg, poor visibility, darker evenings, slow/slush/ice/rain, unpredictable other road users; why take the added risk of deliberately unbalancing the car?
I've got 17" Monza's for my Summer tyres (much to the disdain of some :laugh: ) and 17" VW Exis STP for my winters. I don't like the idea of taking a tyre on and off a rim. Also leaves it in my hands to change the wheels back and forward when I want to
Has anyone any experience of swapping tyres on and off the same rims say 5/6 times?
I looked at buying another set of rims. Was going to be over £800 pounds for a set of VW 205/55/R16 (which someone here said was the VW recommended size for winter tyres for a GTI).
Local tyre place said they would swap the tyres on the rims for £20. Works out a lot cheaper. Ok a set of 16" tyres will be slightly cheaper. Then there is the issue that the insurance company may not be happy with different alloys fitted.
There shouldn't really be an issue (those on track days would probably be able to confirm), worse case, the alloy would need re-beading (~£15 p/w).
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... why take the added risk of deliberately unbalancing the car?
To have fun on roundabouts! :grin:
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Has anyone any experience of swapping tyres on and off the same rims say 5/6 times?
I'd only go down this route if you can find someone trustworthy not to damage your alloys.
I looked at buying another set of rims. Was going to be over £800 pounds for a set of VW 205/55/R16 (which someone here said was the VW recommended size for winter tyres for a GTI).
Local tyre place said they would swap the tyres on the rims for £20. Works out a lot cheaper. Ok a set of 16" tyres will be slightly cheaper. Then there is the issue that the insurance company may not be happy with different alloys fitted.
As if you would shell out £xxx for another set of alloys just for winter... do what the Continentals do and get some steel wheels - save your nice alloys for the rest of the year when the roads aren't gritted. Preferably 16-inch (as you mention) as I'm led to believe narrower tyres work better in slippery conditions, not to mention it keeps the cost of winter motoring down.
You also get peace of mind since you won't be endlessly worried about kerbing or damaging your brand new alloys (you're driving on slippery roads, so it can happen!) and another bonus is you won't have to clean them all the time (a godsend in winter!).
And if the insurance company doesn't like the idea of changing wheels & tyres for reasons of enhanced safety, clearly you need to send your business elsewhere!
And for those undecided on the matter:
Winter tyres still work when warm. Summer tyres stop working when cold.
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Question to Ben:
If only two winter tyres were available, (let's not go into the two versus four argument as we know the answer to that one), to be fitted to Rolfe's FWD car as she needed TRACTION to get out of her drive, which axle would you fit them on?
Purely for TRACTION getting out of her drive, obviously the front.
For SAFETY and driving around in general, the rear.
With the winters on the rear only, Rolfe won't be 'driving around in general' as she won't be able to get out of her driveway!
With the winters on the front only, Rolfe will have traction and at least will be able to drive her car.
But best to fit all four wheels with winter tyres. We know this.
End of story.
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Can someone please lock this thread?? If for no other reason than the sake of Ess-Three and Rolfe's Sanity!!! :laugh:
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GolfTi has the power.
It's the longest thread ever.
Let's see how many posts it will reach. :grin:
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Question to Ben:
If only two winter tyres were available, (let's not go into the two versus four argument as we know the answer to that one), to be fitted to Rolfe's FWD car as she needed TRACTION to get out of her drive, which axle would you fit them on?
Purely for TRACTION getting out of her drive, obviously the front.
For SAFETY and driving around in general, the rear.
With the winters on the rear only, Rolfe won't be 'driving around in general' as she won't be able to get out of her driveway!
With the winters on the front only, Rolfe will have traction and at least will be able to drive her car.
So be it, but that loss of traction they once had on the front, will now be on the rear.
I just can't advise deliberately unbalancing the car, its well known that better tyres (better grip) should be on the rear. Emergency situations being the exception (snow socks/chains) where you'll be crawling around under 10mph anyway.
BUT, we're in the situation, where someone who hasn't used winter tyres before - who, we could safely say, perhaps isn't the most experienced winter driver, is asking the question.
Accidents tend to happen because people exceed the limits of their skill or grip. By having winters up front only, it can give you a massive sense of false confidence, yes, it will brake better, yes, it will accelerate better and yes, it will reduce understeer. So after a few days of having exceptional grip by comparison to all seasons, the driver finds the car handles not too dis-similarly. But its that **one** time, when the rear end breaks loose when accidents happen.
Even worse still is the likelihood of being at high speed on what appear to be normal gritted roads, when the imbalance in grip will causes an ever-increasing chance of oversteer.
I've been in the situation with good tyres up front (wets), and poor tyres at the rear (summers). Both had equal tread levels, and to any observer, looks perfectly safe. But on two occasions, the car snapped, and spun out, once at around 25 mph on a big roundabout, and another at around 35 mph on a country road.
It can happen so easily in summer, combine that with sub 10 deg, poor visibility, darker evenings, slow/slush/ice/rain, unpredictable other road users; why take the added risk of deliberately unbalancing the car?
4 all season tyres - balanced and even - poor grip all round
2 rear winters - balanced and even - poor grip all round - same handling characteristics as a normal car.
2 front winters - unbalanced, risk of oversteer, good grip up front, poor grip at rear
4 winters - balanced and even - good grip all round
Stop confusing opinion with fact.
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Ben, we will agree to disagree with you.
It is stalemate.
Rolfe just wishes to drive her car by at least leaving her driveway and making some short journeys. She won't be tearing around in the snow/ice. She is probably a better driver than you or I.
With winters on the rear only, her car will be stuck in the garage.
Is it so difficult for you to understand this simple fact?
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And for those undecided on the matter:
Winter tyres still work when warm. Summer tyres stop working when cold.
That's why I had considered something like a Nokian WR G2 which is apparently considered an all weather tyre. But it is a compromise and will not be as good as a true winter tyre or a true summer tyre.
An all weather trye will work in warm and cold weather.
This would also mean no need to swap tyres or buy new rims.
... just considering my options, before my car arrives.
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Is it so difficult for you to understand this simple fact?
No its not, which is why I keep agreeing with you on this ...
... yes, it will brake better, yes, it will accelerate better and yes, it will reduce understeer.
BUT it is a dangerous practice. As I keep saying, over and over again, you don't have to be tearing around on snow, or ice to get caught out with a car with balanced grip - f**k up the front/rear grip balance and you are asking for trouble.
The better tyres always go on the rear first, then follow it up with the fronts.
Stop telling people that fitting 2 front winter tyres is viable, its dumb, dangerous, selfish and ignorant.
You can't agree to disagree with a fact, its not optional, rain remains wet ;)
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Here you go Irish LT:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm
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Ben,
FACT - I have never advocated the fitting of just two winter tyres over four.
You are the perfect mule IMO.
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I have never advocated the fitting of just two winter tyres over four.
I didn't say you did. But you did say it was a viable alternative to run only 2 fronts (budget/availability of 4 tyres).
This was the exact point I have been contesting from the very beginning ..
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
The better tyres always go on the rear first, then follow it up with the fronts.
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I did for TRACTION and so did you.
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I did for TRACTION and so did you.
For front-end traction, yes, I didn't contest, I agree!
I'm saying that deliberately unbalancing the grip of the car is not safe, the way to avoid it, is to put the better tyres at the rear.
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I thought we were discussing TRACTION not balance.
Keep to the point.
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I thought we were discussing TRACTION not balance.
Keep to the point.
My point, the entire time, was to keep the car's grip, even and safe, nothing to do with front-end traction.
So that, if only 2 tyres are upgraded, then it should just be the rear two - as it won't effect the handling of the car, followed by the front two.
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I thought we were discussing TRACTION not balance.
Keep to the point.
My point, the entire time, was to keep the car's grip, even and safe, nothing to do with front-end traction.
So that, if only 2 tyres are upgraded, then it should just be the rear two - as it won't effect the handling of the car, followed by the front two.
You are again confusing the issue. You are really talking about balance/handling and not an improvement in traction.
The point all along has been an improvement in traction for a FWD car.
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I thought we were discussing TRACTION not balance.
Keep to the point.
My point, the entire time, was to keep the car's grip, even and safe, nothing to do with front-end traction.
So that, if only 2 tyres are upgraded, then it should just be the rear two - as it won't effect the handling of the car, followed by the front two.
You are again confusing the issue. You are really talking about balance/handling and not an improvement in traction.
The point all along has been an improvement in traction for a FWD car.
I'm not confusing anything - I think its your ignorance that has confusing you.
I originally got involved when someone asked ...
i've probably left this a bit late but after 2 days of 'moderate snow' i'm beginning to get a bit more worried about more and more. it's not been too bad in Greater Manchester but today i did have to dig out my driveway to park up. so is the consensus just getting a pair for the front sufficient?
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
I've been saying one statement the entire time. No, fitting a pair to the front wheels isn't sufficient, its unsafe and dangerous.
For safety, to keep the car balanced and retain its normal handing characteristics - you should always upgrade rear tyres first, followed by the front tyres.
But for winter tyres, you should change all 4. IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2, make it the rear set. In order to preserve the same handling characteristics that the car normally has.
Fitting front winters only, will upset the front/rear grip and make the car unsafe.
Always rears first, fronts last.
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I am not being ignorant, you mule.
If I did put winter rubber on, I would do so for all four wheels. This is a given.
I am not talking about handling or safety issues either. You brought these into the equation.
My question is: Will fitting winter tyres to the front axle of a FWD car improve its traction?
Answer: Yes or No.
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My question is: Will fitting winter tyres to the front axle of a FWD car improve its traction?
Answer: Yes or No.
It will improve front-end grip, yes. I've said this, time and time again. Any time anyone asks about front-end traction being better with front winters, I keep saying yes, I haven't disagreed with anyone on that point.
Whilst that might well be your question, but isn't what I am saying - which is what you are deliberately trying to ignore.
Again ...
I originally got involved when someone asked ...
i've probably left this a bit late but after 2 days of 'moderate snow' i'm beginning to get a bit more worried about more and more. it's not been too bad in Greater Manchester but today i did have to dig out my driveway to park up. so is the consensus just getting a pair for the front sufficient?
No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.
I've been saying one statement the entire time. No, fitting a pair to the front wheels isn't sufficient, its unsafe and dangerous.
For safety, to keep the car balanced and retain its normal handing characteristics - you should always upgrade rear tyres first, followed by the front tyres.
But for winter tyres, you should change all 4. IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2, make it the rear set. In order to preserve the same handling characteristics that the car normally has.
Fitting front winters only, will upset the front/rear grip and make the car unsafe.
Always rears first, fronts last.
I'm calling you ignorant, because I keep saying the same thing, and you keep arguing that I'm not?!
4 all season tyres - balanced and even - poor grip all round
2 rear winters - balanced and even - poor grip all round - same handling characteristics as a normal car.
2 front winters - unbalanced, risk of oversteer, good grip up front, poor grip at rear
4 winters - balanced and even - good grip all round
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I am not deliberately trying to ignore the issues handling/balance/safety you have raised.
So we have agreed that fitting winter tyres to the front axle will improve the traction for a FWD car.
Good.
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What I also agree with you is that all four wheels must have winter tyres to maintain good traction/balance/handling/safety.
Whether it is just on the front or on the rear is neither here nor there. Not good practice.
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So we have agreed that fitting winter tyres to the front axle will improve the traction for a FWD car.
Front-end traction, at the cost of provoking oversteer, yes.
Whether it is just on the front or on the rear is neither here nor there. Not good practice.
It does make a difference though (which is what I'm repeatedly trying to say!).
Winters only at the rear won't change anything about the cars safety/handling.
Winters only at the front will upset the handling/grip of the car.
Its basic tyres 101 to always fit better tyres at the rear.
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(http://www.austinthirdgen.org/upload/yawn.jpg)
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Don't ever practice Law, Ben.
The judge will lose patience with you and throw your case out tout suite!
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Don't worry, IT is more my forté ;)
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Which is going to last longer, the snow or this thread? :grin:
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IT = Internet torture :cry:
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IT = Internet torture :cry:
:D
But you know what I am saying is right.
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IT = Internet torture :cry:
:D
But you know what I am saying is right.
Bye, bye.
PS: mini-w@nker
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That's why I had considered something like a Nokian WR G2 which is apparently considered an all weather tyre. But it is a compromise and will not be as good as a true winter tyre or a true summer tyre.
An all weather trye will work in warm and cold weather.
This would also mean no need to swap tyres or buy new rims.
... just considering my options, before my car arrives.
A few things about all season and winter tyres.
All season tyres are designed for dry, wet and light snow conditions. As you correctly point out, these are a compromise tyre. You can't mistake these for summer tyres, as they have a M+S (mud & snow) mark on the sidewall, and are the most common type of tyre sold in America. They are not very common in the U.K./Europe/Asia/Australia.
Winter tyres are specifically designed for cold conditions, and have a snowflake symbol next to the M+S symbol on the sidewall. The additional marking shows that the tyre meets prescribed test criteria and ensures good winter properties (note: the snowflake symbol originated from U.S./Canadian requirements, but like the DOT code, is used by many tyre manufacturers worldwide).
Looking at photos of the Nokian WR G2, it has a snowflake symbol on the sidewall, which would indicate it's a proper winter tyre.
It seems like the decision is borderline for you, so let's use some common sense.
I wouldn't get all season tyres. You would lose too much in terms of objective performance and subjective feel in the dry (what's the point of a GTI/GTD otherwise?). So that just leaves winter tyres.
The kicker for me would be the type of snowfall you receive. If you receive regular or consistent snowfall, no matter how light, then no question - proper winter tyres are definitely worth it, especially since it's likely to be below 7°C.
However, if snowfall is inconsistent or rare (once every 5 years or something), then I'd forgo winter tyres, really. Whilst the temperature won't be ideal for summer tyres, I think you'll at least be able to cope, even if winter tyres would provide far better performance. You know, calculated risk and all that jazz.
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Locky locky.