Winter Tyres

[p3eps]

This is the price of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 winter tyres from mytyres.
Gone up by nearly £100 in 1 week!

Typical... easy money for them I guess.
Looks like I may have to wait for the snow to vanish before I go out and get my winter tyres / wheels then!

[DDRFan]

awww sorry dudes looks like i started a stupid argument

I see the point about "fitting new tyres to the rear", about controlling understeer and the worry of oversteer, but that only applies for normal so called 'all-weather' and 'summer' tyres driving in the rain.
what i was asking about what specifically using winter tyres only on the front. for the slow speeds we're driving i honestly don't think oversteer is a worry.

and there is also the point made previously is where i keep my normal tyres or wheels in the meanwhile? unfortunately i don't have a big shed or garage or whatever to put them. even just 2 tyres are quite large and cumbersome. and say i did decide to go 'the full monty' and get 4 basic steel wheels and fit 4 winter tyres on, where do i put 4 monza shadows? that's a whole lotta room. i'm not like Am1w and sleep with them  i can't exactly just leave them out on the street until the snow goes away.

yes i see it would make absolutely no sense putting winter tyres on the rear in our front-wheel drive GTIs - if i was stuck on a hill, without the added grip on the drive wheels, i would still be stuck on the bottom of the hill and the wheels would be spinning like crazy. for winter purposes it would either have to be a) swap all 4 b) swap the fronts only c) keep all 4 normal tyres and chance it

in any case i've had a few second thoughts about converting to winter rubber - it's not been so bad where i live and lately the roads i travel seem to have been cleared pretty well. the only real problems i've had are simply parking up at home. so i think for now i'm just going to chance it and drive really really slowly.

[R32UK]

big fat edit

[R32UK]

hmmm might just give those winter tyres a go after all!! 

My theory is that the cost of 1 accident pretty much pays for your winter tyres.
Pay day today, so I'm going to get something ordered in the next few days.

At least you're car didn't get much damage this time.  Was your last accident not in the snow too?

sorry peeps missed the question. yes it was... crazy white man van understeered head on into me on a bend. about 6wks without car last time

[Rolfe]

Like I said, fit 4 and there's nothing to worry about.

No, that's not what you said.

Nobody is disputing that fitting four winter tyres is the best way to go.  The question was, though, is it a practical solution just to do the front pair.

There are two reasonable answers to this.  First, that the potential for the back end swinging out is too big a risk, you should do all four.  Second, that although doing just the front is not optimal, it's better than doing none of them, and perfectly practical so long as you drive within the limits of the tyres you have fitted.

We could have a perfectly sensible discussion on that basis, as both points of view can clearly be defended rationally.

You, however, chose to take the line that if you're only going to fit one pair of winter tyres, you should fit them to the rear wheels.  Of a front-wheel-drive car.

This is batcrap insane, which is what several people have been trying to get through to you.

Rolfe.

[R32UK]

TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.

does anyone have anything other than their personal opinion/logic that winter tyres should be fitted only to the front?

[Rolfe]

TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.

No, I don't think he has.  He has provided evidence relating only to the positioning of new and part-worn tyres of the same type.  He has simply not addressed the question of a single pair of winter tyres at all.

does anyone have anything other than their personal opinion/logic that winter tyres should be fitted only to the front?

Nobody has said winter tyres should be fitted only to the front.  Obviously, they should be fitted to all four wheels.  The question is, can they be fitted to the front only, as a compromise.  This is debatable either way.

Ben seems to be saying that if you want to fit only one pair, they should go on the back wheels.  This is completely bonkers.  This is what we're having the actual argument about.

There are several practical examples of front-wheel-drive cars running around on front winter tyres only.  Mine for one, and I just found out yesterday that a work colleague who has a long and snowy drive to work has done the same thing, and has shown up bright and early every day while others were struggling in late or not making it at all.

I know of no example of anyone running rear-only winter tyres on a front-wheel-drive.  Possibly because it's a batcrap insane thing to do.  It completely negates the purpose of the exercise.

Getting back to the AutoSocks analogy, the recommendations for these are the product of a great deal of research, and they are approved by many car manufacturers, including VW.  They essentially turn summer tyres into winter ones (and then some).  The fitting instructions say, put them on the drive wheels.  They then say, if you have a rear-wheel-drive car, it is recommended to fit a second pair to the front wheels, otherwise you are likely to lose steering control.  There is no suggestion that a second rear pair is necessary on a front-wheel-drive car.  All the promotional videos show the things being used on front-wheel-drive cars, on the front wheels only.  They're not doing this because they're ignorant, ill-informed, or haven't done their research.

Rolfe.

[Ben Lessani]

TBH ben has a very valid point as he has backed up his statement.

No, I don't think he has.  He has provided evidence relating only to the positioning of new and part-worn tyres of the same type.  He has simply not addressed the question of a single pair of winter tyres at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

Note what happens around 1m30 on the next video (this is your front winters + all season rears)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA

Yes, you are right, you'll move around a damn site faster with winter tyres on the front - and for this very reason, your the one likely to get caught out.

And, in the eyes of your insurance, I could bet that you would be liable for any accident given you set the car up in a deliberately dangerous fashion.

Slide sideways into a car - and it was you that lost control.
Slide straight into a car, and its open to interpretation.

Like I said, fit 4 and there's nothing to worry about.

And the logic that "you've been fine so far" is childish, I've never had a car bump - so with that logic, I could happily downgrade my insurance to theft and fire only.

[am1w]

It seems common sense does not prevail.

Front wheel drive - If fitting two winter tyres (), fit them to the driven/steering wheels. Best to fit all four wheels.

Rear wheel drive - Best to fit to all four wheels. Driven wheels are rear so they need them, front wheels for steering so they need them too.

QED.

[SoVW]

Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.

For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA

You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.