Winter Tyres

[Ess_Three]

Yes, what makes VWs unique?

Unless you've had your head up your own arse over the last 20 years, you'll know VWs understeer...they are set up to do so, and anyone who competes in one the world over fights it. It plagues them...killing lap times.
Except yours it appears.
The one and only VW that oversteers.

Because you never mentioned it?

So you choose to ignore ESP because I never mentioned it. I have air in my tyres...but haven't mentioned it...so do you assume I do, or don't?
I'd say something that's a fundamental part of a modern VW is safe to assume does not need specific reference..ESP is on...you can't fully disengage it...which is why is's frustrating on the track, but such a positive thing on the road.

Now, snap oversteer...to me that's what happens when something breaks and it all goes wrong in a split second, at high speed.
When a tyre breaks traction, you have a progressive loss of traction. Not the same.

So, explain again, how at say 30-40 MPH, my Mk6 GTI with it's ESP, is going to swap ends on a sixpence with me having no say in the matter...I am after all still in charge of the steering wheel. I haven't specifically mentioned it previously, but I thought it safe to assume you'd know that.

[Rolfe]

Roberta doesn't understand that when the snow has cleared her tyres will still have a lot more grip on the front than the back and as a result has a terrible accident when rushing to get to her nail appointment in heavy rain. She ends up with a scarred face and a life of guilt from running over a group of OAPs on their way to bingo.

Anyone can have an accident they'll regret forever, while doing something stupid.  Nail appointment or not.

FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.

Maybe you could point out where anyone at all was either cheapskate (someone mentioned shortage of storage space for four tyres, that was about it), or where anyone actually "spouted advice" to fit only two winter tyres.

Because I don't recall anyone doing either.

For my own part, I reported that although I requested four winter tyres, my garage only supplied two, but that in fact they were doing what I wanted, which was preventing me getting stuck in wheelspin.

If you want to make a case that this is not in fact a safe setup, then I'm listening, because it wasn't my idea in the first place anyway and I can see the rationale.

The actual argument that has been going on, however, is with that idiot Ben who thinks fitting two rear winter tyres only is somehow a good idea.

Rolfe.

[Ess_Three]

Roberta doesn't understand that when the snow has cleared her tyres will still have a lot more grip on the front than the back and as a result has a terrible accident when rushing to get to her nail appointment in heavy rain. She ends up with a scarred face and a life of guilt from running over a group of OAPs on their way to bingo.

Another ignorant cretin.
Why do they come here?
Can't you go play elsewhere?

FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.

Maybe you should take your troll attitude back to one of the other forums?

[am1w]

Just to add fuel to the fire, read this thread.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=933323&i=20&mid=0&nmt=Just%20fit%20winter%20tyres%20to%20the%20drive%20wheels?

[SoVW]

It's a fact that four winter tyres is safer than two. By having topics on forums like this where people suggest it is fine to have two on the front, it is putting innocent people's safety at risk.

Because someone will google "Winter tyres", come here and think it is fine to just have to two without understanding the possible ramifications, or reading through all our bickering. As enthusiasts we should be doing everything we can to educate the dumber public and each other on such matters. If you can't understand that I give up.

[Ess_Three]

It's not our preacher under a different user name is it?

Funny how the basic realisation that "we'll all be 'safe as f*ck' with winter tyres on the back, because nobody can actualy drive anywhere" comes through again.

The PH argument of different tread patterns and compounds and hence inherently different tyre behaviours also begs the question:
Why is it legal to have differing makes of tyre front to rear?
Or even accross the same axle?

Surely if the risk to life was oh-so-high, it would be illegal?

[Ess_Three]

It's a fact that four winter tyres is safer than two. By having topics on forums like this where people suggest it is fine to have two on the front, it is putting innocent people's safety at risk.

Because someone will google "Winter tyres", come here and think it is fine to just have to two without understanding the possible ramifications, or reading through all our bickering. As enthusiasts we should be doing everything we can to educate the dumber public and each other on such matters. If you can't understand that I give up.

I understand the basics...I've been running winter tyres for the last 7-8 years, on all 4 wheels...so heaven help me, I, more than many understand the basic argument.

I also consider myself an enthusiast, quick road driver and clubman competitor on and off.
But it's -6 outside and there is 10" of snow on the ground. I am not interested in driving enthusiastically...I just want to go to Tescos for some fresh food, and return home safely.

If Joe Public is too stupid to fit winter tyres, let them stay at home...which removes their vehicles from the roads, in turn making it harder for me to collide with anything. Job done.

4 is undoubtedly safer than 2...but some of the scaremongering associated with the fitting of front winter tyres is just rubbish.
Drive accordingly in winter, and the speeds shouldn't differ winter>summer tyres...but the traction when pulling away sure will.

[SoVW]

I'm leaving this topic. I'm sorry if I annoyed anyone or offended them, that wasn't really my intention and if you look at my history here you'll see I'm not a troll or (at least hopefully not) a cretin.

Yes maybe the risk is lower than I've made out, but I like reducing risks where possible so perhaps got a bit over-enthusiastic...sorry.

Oh and I've spent the last few days obsessing over winter tyres while waiting for my first ever set to arrive, so that's partly my excuse.

[Rolfe]

I'm leaving this topic. I'm sorry if I annoyed anyone or offended them, that wasn't really my intention and if you look at my history here you'll see I'm not a troll or (at least hopefully not) a cretin.

Yes maybe the risk is lower than I've made out, but I like reducing risks where possible so perhaps got a bit over-enthusiastic...sorry.

Oh and I've spent the last few days obsessing over winter tyres while waiting for my first ever set to arrive, so that's partly my excuse.

Fair enough.  I don't think anyone is disputing that fitting all four tyres is preferable.  The real discussion is whether fitting only the front wheels is an acceptable compromise or not.  There's room for disagreement on that, obviously.  If you want to drive around in the snow like Stirling Moss, then it's a no-brainer.  If your main objective is to get out of your drive and as far as the main road without getting stuck, then drive as if you're wearing summer tyres anyway, then there's more of a debate.

It's interesting that the two videos Ben linked to were tyre manufacturers who seemed to feel a marketing need to convince people that fitting only two tyres is dangerous.  If it was as dangerous as that, few people would be doing it I suspect, and it would probably be illegal in Canada.

The really brainless part of the thread was Ben and his insistence that fitting a single pair on the rear was preferable to fitting a single pair in front.  I'm afraid intransigent bone-headedness like that brings out the debater in me....

Rolfe.

[Irish Love Toy]

... that brings out the debater in me....

Rolfe.

I really like a good mass debate  :embarassed: