Winter Tyres

[am1w]

People can change their votes until 22.20 on 17-02-2011.

[Ben Lessani]

With regards to ‘SNAP OVERSTEER’…have you ever experienced it on a VW?

Yes, what makes VWs unique?

You have completely ignored references to ESP I notice…why don’t you go out and TRY to get a Mk6 to oversteer…if you can, you are a better driver than me.

Because you never mentioned it? And wasn't there a MK6 owner that recently wrote their car off at 40mph on a bend they took every day by losing the rear and hitting another vehicle?

Second clip.  Four winter tyres performs better than four all-season tyres.  Then front-only winters is compared to four winter tyres, and again unsurprisingly the four winters does better.  There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winters. 

Erm ... yes there was, seriously, watch it again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

When on earth did I say change the rear wheels only!??!?!

Er, lots and lots of times?

Oh my god, its like talking to a moron. I quite literally quoted myself every time I mentioned rear tyres and NOT ONCE did I ever advocate fitting winter tyres to just only the rear - every single time, I said, FIT ALL 4.

There is nothing WRONG about what I'm saying, its all 100% correct - you blame me for being argumentative, and you're just being plain ignorant. The same thing I've been saying, time and time again is irrefutable fact..

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.

Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact

More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact

Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact

I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...

[am1w]

i've probably left this a bit late but after 2 days of 'moderate snow' i'm beginning to get a bit more worried about more and more. it's not been too bad in Greater Manchester but today i did have to dig out my driveway to park up. so is the consensus just getting a pair for the front sufficient?

No, you have to change the rears first, then the fronts.

No you did not.
What you 'meant' was not how you put it. So don't wriggle out of it.

[Ben Lessani]

Not sure who the above was directed at?

But seriously, stop advising people that only fitting front winter's is a safe thing to do, its moronic, ignorant and dangerous - to not just yourself, but other road users.

[am1w]

Not sure who the above was directed at?
But seriously, stop advising people that only fitting front winter's is a safe thing to do, its moronic, ignorant and dangerous - to not just yourself, but other road users.

Don't put words in other peoples' mouths.
It is you who gives the improper 'advice' to fit winter tyres to the rear wheels first on a front wheel drive car.
Drive your short wheelbase mini with just to rear winter tyres. The wheelbase is so short, it might as well be a two-wheeler.

[GolfTi]

In summary then.

Winter tyres are much better in the winter than summer tyres.
Summer tyres are much better in the summer than winter tyres.

Buy four if you can.
If you can only buy two then:-
 Fit them to the front if you want to get out of your driveway.
 Fit them to the rear if you want to be safer going around corners.

Don't buy them if you want a good excuse for staying at home.

[SoVW]

It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:

1. Bob fits two front winter tyres

2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres

3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.

Or:

1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work

Or:

1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car

Or:

1. Bob fits four winter tyres

2. Bob speeds around

3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.

OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.

I don't know who Bob is.  My name is not Bob.

I'll give you an alternative scenario.

1.  Roberta fits two front winter tyres.

2.  Roberta is bloody relieved she isn't sliding all over the bloody road even on the flat, and can actually drive the car in and out of her drive, and up the hill to the main road.

3.  Roberta gets to work on time every day, without taking time to haul AutoSocks on and off.

4.  Roberta is very well aware that she still has summer tyres on the rear wheels, and as a result does not drive like a raving lunatic.  In particular, she takes corners in snow as if she had four summer tyres, and always makes sure she has plenty stopping distance to avoid sudden braking.

5.  Roberta sees child on pavement, slows down, and is able to brake in good order when required.

Roberta Rolfe.

Roberta doesn't understand that when the snow has cleared her tyres will still have a lot more grip on the front than the back and as a result has a terrible accident when rushing to get to her nail appointment in heavy rain. She ends up with a scarred face and a life of guilt from running over a group of OAPs on their way to bingo.

FFS, stop being cheapskates. If you can't afford four winter tyres vs two, buy a cheaper GTI and properly maintain it, or don't drive if conditions don't allow. Spouting advice on public forums that puts other peoples lives at risk to save a few pounds is retarded and irresponsible.

[am1w]

Lastly, I think BL 'thinks' his mini is a RWD BMW.

[Rolfe]

Second clip.  Four winter tyres performs better than four all-season tyres.  Then front-only winters is compared to four winter tyres, and again unsurprisingly the four winters does better.  There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winters. 

Erm ... yes there was, seriously, watch it again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

What are you smoking?  That's the third time I've watched that clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

There is no test of a set-up of rear-only winter tyres.  First winter tyres are shown to be superior to all-season tyres, then front-only winters are shown also to be inferior to four winter tyres.  That's it.  In other news, rain is still wet.

When on earth did I say change the rear wheels only!??!?!

Oh my god, its like talking to a moron. I quite literally quoted myself every time I mentioned rear tyres and NOT ONCE did I ever advocate fitting winter tyres to just only the rear - every single time, I said, FIT ALL 4.

Do you have some sort of weird memory loss?  It's all there in black and white.  You repeatedly said that if for whatever reason someone wanted only to fit two winter tyres, they should put them on the rear.

You said it again and again and again, repeatedly, in multiple posts.

THAT is moronic.

I keep saying, [....] IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set ...

There you go again.  Completely idiotic, ignorant and insane.

Rolfe.

[am1w]

Dumb and Dumber at it again.
Now Dumber is worried about Rolfe when the snow clears.
Is there no stopping this idiotic duo?