Poll

Who thinks they are a good idea? Who thinks they are a waste of money?

Won't waste my money.
11 (24.4%)
Have already ordered them.
7 (15.6%)
Still thinking about it.
13 (28.9%)
Won't waste my money.
14 (31.1%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Voting closed: 17 February 2011, 22:20

Author Topic: Winter Tyres  (Read 89211 times)

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #320 on: 03 December 2010, 18:27 »
I'm fed up of YouTube links, utter horse-feathers being talked and frankly ridiculous talk of being liable in the case of an accident if you fit 2 winter tyres.

I've had enough...this troll has got to me. Bravo.


 

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #321 on: 03 December 2010, 18:28 »
You know, you just can't reason with some people.

I'm starting to realise this ... you're a stubborn bunch.

All of whom appear to be wrong too.
Odd that.

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #322 on: 03 December 2010, 18:34 »
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.

Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact

More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact

Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact

I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...

Offline GolfTi

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #323 on: 03 December 2010, 18:45 »
Ben - give it a rest.

Unless you are driving along country roads at 60mph what you are saying is irrelevant.

The idea for most people is simply to get out of the driveway.

All four is the sensible option, obviously, but remember Rolfe is Scottish. :wink:



Mk7 GTI. DBP, DCC, Winter pack. Mine since new, July 2013.
GTI no. 4. Golf no. 5.  VW no. 7.

Offline SoVW

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #324 on: 03 December 2010, 18:46 »
Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.

For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA

You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.

You, sir, are a cretin for suggesting that people should stick to summer tyres over winters (even if only on the front).
Are you another shandy drinking southerner living on the south coast?
Do you live in the real world?

In snow, getting traction is the problem...even on summer tyres you'll get where you want to go if you can keep forward motion...winter tyres allow you to keep forward motion. In order to keep forward motion, you need to keep the driven wheels providing traction...the front wheels.


Where did I suggest people stick to summer tyres over winters? I'm just saying if you can't afford four winter tyres, don't bother with them at all. I have a set of (FOUR!) conti 830Ps waiting to be fitted tomorrow.

It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:

1. Bob fits two front winter tyres

2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres

3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.

Or:

1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work

Or:

1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car

Or:

1. Bob fits four winter tyres

2. Bob speeds around

3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.

OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.

Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #325 on: 03 December 2010, 18:50 »
Agree entirely with SoVW :afro:

Unless you are driving along country roads at 60mph what you are saying is irrelevant.

Its really not, on snow/ice - you can easily break (lateral) traction at under 10mph. And on wet roads the margin is around 20-30 mph.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #326 on: 03 December 2010, 19:30 »
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.

Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact

More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact

Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact

I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...


What is the point in fitting winter tyres to the rear, and still not being able to get out of the driveway?
I give in…

With regards to ‘SNAP OVERSTEER’…have you ever experienced it on a VW?
I’ve been sprinting & Hillclimbing cars, and doing trackdays for 20+ years, wet and dry, in FWD VWs…some with big rear ARBs, and super-sticky front tyres only to deliberately try to provoke oversteer to kill understeer…and I’ve failed every time.
So, I find it hard to see how fitting winter tyres to the front of a Golf is going to turn my Golf into the ba$tard child of a 205 GTI and an early 911….especially given the fact that no driver should be hooning about in the snow anyway.
You have completely ignored references to ESP I notice…why don’t you go out and TRY to get a Mk6 to oversteer…if you can, you are a better driver than me.

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline Jimble

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #327 on: 03 December 2010, 19:36 »
Do NOT only fit two winter tyres, either to the front or back. Either stick to four summers and don't drive if you can't, or put on FOUR winters.

For a good example of why not, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cBSWEhimdA

You are potentially putting other people's lives at risk, as well as your own. I am shocked that people on this thread have had garages let them only put front winters on. It's like sending someone out on 4 bald tyres.

You, sir, are a cretin for suggesting that people should stick to summer tyres over winters (even if only on the front).
Are you another shandy drinking southerner living on the south coast?
Do you live in the real world?

In snow, getting traction is the problem...even on summer tyres you'll get where you want to go if you can keep forward motion...winter tyres allow you to keep forward motion. In order to keep forward motion, you need to keep the driven wheels providing traction...the front wheels.


Where did I suggest people stick to summer tyres over winters? I'm just saying if you can't afford four winter tyres, don't bother with them at all. I have a set of (FOUR!) conti 830Ps waiting to be fitted tomorrow.

It's not a complicated concept. I'll put it in a simple 1,2,3 scenario to make it easier for you to grasp:

1. Bob fits two front winter tyres

2. Bob loves the extra traction and speeds away, happily overtaking losers with their summer tyres

3. Bob panics as child runs out from between parked cars and tries to swerve to avoid, but instead of keeping control spins onto pavement and runs over mother with pram.

Or:

1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on and either can't get off his drive, gets bus or bikes in or has day off work

Or:

1. Bob leaves four summer tyres on manages to get off drive but realising he has no grip drives around slowly and scared for his own life / car

Or:

1. Bob fits four winter tyres

2. Bob speeds around

3. Bob panics as child runs out but successfully swerves around / brakes with shorter shopping distance and remains on road.

OK, maybe that's not made it simple enough for you to grasp but my point is that because of the increased grip you are more likely to drive faster and will be caught out in the event of an emergency manoeuvre, or just going around a corner a bit too fast or not being able to brake in time. You may not be running "illegal" tyres but you could still be responsible for the injury or death of someone or yourself. For the sake of a couple of hundred quid.
If Bob SPEEDS anywhere in the snow he is c@ck and deserves everything he gets! even with 4 winter tyres!
Currently pootling around in our family wagen, a Tiguan SEL 😂

Offline Jimble

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #328 on: 03 December 2010, 19:40 »
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you are giving out dangerous advice.

Less grip over the back wheels = snap oversteer - fact
Less grip over the front wheels = controllable understeer - fact

More grip over the front wheels = better front-end traction - fact
More grip over the front wheels = snap oversteer - fact

Balanced grip over the all wheels = normal handling characteristics - fact

I'm not advocating changing 2 tyres, I keep saying, change all 4 tyres. BUT IF YOU INSIST on changing only 2 tyres, make it the rear set, so it doesn't cause the above ...
Anyone that is driving fast enough in the snow to get SNAP oversteer is driving dangerously and therefore should not be driving in the first place!
Currently pootling around in our family wagen, a Tiguan SEL 😂

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Winter Tyres
« Reply #329 on: 03 December 2010, 19:42 »
If Bob SPEEDS anywhere in the snow he is c@ck and deserves everything he gets! even with 4 winter tyres!

Here endeth the lesson.

Any sane driver will relise that if they need winter tyres in order to leave the driveway, that they should drive uber-slow and carefully...avoiding any high speed slalom courses, constant radius skid pan areas or areas where women with kids and prams are likely to leap out at them.

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.