Winter Tyres

[Movi]

I would change all 4 from experience. 2 is ok on the front for grip, braking and steering at low speeds. just like the autosocks.

as your speed builds summer tyres on the rear will just let go in the corners. good fun but certainly not the best option imo.   

[gizzywizzy]

Tyres arrived this morning, look to be a good bit of rubber.  If these don't help I give up.

Off to get them fitted this afternoon.  Haven't been able to get to work since Saturday so may just see an improvement tomorrow.

[Ben Lessani]

You may think its working for you, but don't advise other people to do the same. Its just plain dangerous to upgrade front tyres over rears.

You are talking utter rubish...on a FWD car, you need traction, steering and braking. Front wheels.

No, I'm afraid I'm not. It really isn't up for debate - you ALWAYS change rear tyres first, understeer is controllable, snap oversteer isn't.

http://www.tyresafe.org/news-and-events/detail/motorists-get-their-tyres--back-to-front--/
http://www.celtictyres.co.uk/front-rear.php
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Tires-2359/2-New-tires.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5YsQ_a_ijA

etc.

You're wrong and you're giving out stupid and dangerous advice.

But as mentioned, for winter tyres, it is always recommended to fit 4 at once.

[Rolfe]

I would change all 4 from experience. 2 is ok on the front for grip, braking and steering at low speeds. just like the autosocks.

as your speed builds summer tyres on the rear will just let go in the corners. good fun but certainly not the best option imo.   

They do let go on the corners, that's true.  I'm taking corners very carefully where there's snow lying.

I agree that doing all four is undoubtedly better, and that's what I originally intended to do - it was the garage who said, oh we'll just do the front pair.

An argument that doing the front pair only is not ideal, is clearly correct.  Nevertheless, front-only appears to be a viable option if you're prepared to go easy on the cornering.  An argument that suggests you might consider doing the rear pair only, which is what Ben appears to be saying, seems completely nuts.

Rolfe.

ETA:  Ben's links are all about putting the newer/better pair of a set on the back rather than the front.  They have nothing to do with the fitting of winter tyres.

[mac7]

You're wrong and you're giving out stupid and dangerous advice.

It's true that an understeering car is easier for the average joe to control than an oversteering one and that fitting your new tyres on the back might make it safer in a specific emergency situation like aquaplaning around a corner. But to say it's dangerous to fit new tyres to the front is overkill.

Anyway, some of us are pretty good at catching oversteer. More to the point, there are still plenty of cars out there which inherently oversteer and they aren't classified as dangerous.

For traction in the snow in a front wheel drive car, fitting snow tyres to the front makes sense - you're hardly going to aquaplane on snow...

[Ess_Three]

No, I'm afraid I'm not. It really isn't up for debate - you ALWAYS change rear tyres first, understeer is controllable, snap oversteer isn't.
You're wrong and you're giving out stupid and dangerous advice.

But as mentioned, for winter tyres, it is always recommended to fit 4 at once.

Strange, that in 7 years of running winter tyres, you are the only one suggesting I fit them onto the rear of a FWD car first.
The issue is very much up for debate...understeer cannot be controlled with no grip...hence, winter tyres on the front - the steering axle.

But hey, you do what you like...and I shall continue to do as I find appropriate.

[Ben Lessani]

Its nothing to do with aquaplaning - its to do with having no traction at the rear, compared to the front.

Liken it to driving round a car park with plastic trays under your rear wheels, it makes for a very unpredictable and uncontrollable driving experience. If you fit the new tyres to the rear, its easy to drive within your limitations, as you can feed in power and feel the loss of control. Fit new tyres on the front, and your driving feel won't change, giving you a false confidence going into bends or braking, where the rear end is extremely likely to step out.

Oversteer is controllable on a track or wide open, empty space - try and control it on a road with oncoming traffic and parked vehicles and you're likely to become unstuck.

Nevertheless, as I said, you're all driving £15k+ cars, why on earth would you only replace 2 tyres anyway!? It's all 4, or if you are **that** cheap, just the rears - there is no justification to change the fronts only.

[mac7]

Thanks for the explanation, but I have a pretty good grasp of the laws of physics. Some of us learned to drive in/have owned rear engined RWD cars so are completely comfortable with oversteer.

Just because someone spends £15K+ on a car it doesn't mean they have bottomless pockets. I would imagine many just can't justify forking our for 4 tyres for just a few weeks use. Like many things in life, only buying two winter tyres is a (completely safe and acceptable) compromise. And arguably better than having no winter tyres at all.

As an aside, I once found myself sideways on a dual carriageway at 60mph due to aquaplaning - part worn tyres on the front axle and new tyres on the rear. In that instance, the location of the part worn tyres made no difference whatsoever.

[Ess_Three]

Here's the thing...
On a FWD car, with winter tyres on the rear, you will never have an accident, or loose the rear end because you will never go anywhere.
To suggest fitting 'snow' or 'winter' tyres to the rear of a Golf, in preference to the front (the bit that provuded the traction, steering and braking) is so utterly stupid it's not worth spending any more time on.

[Ess_Three]

As an aside, I once found myself sideways on a dual carriageway at 60mph due to aquaplaning - part worn tyres on the front axle and new tyres on the rear. In that instance, the location of the part worn tyres made no difference whatsoever.

There is also a perfectly sensible argument that suggests that in a modern car, with ESP, ABS and traction control, going sidewards will be corrected by the electronics within the limits of the forces of nature...cross the line, and you are on your own...and on your own with no grip at the front is an accident looking for a suitable location to occur.
At least with some front end grip you have a fighting chance...which is precisely one chance more than the chance you have with no front end grip.

You fit tyres where you think your level of skill in your car has the best chance of avoiding an accident.

If you are a clogg-footed, ham-fisted inbecile driving an old RWD car...I can see how the previous advice adds up.
On a FWD Mk6 Golf with ESP/ABS etc...I cannot.