GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: GolfTi on 09 July 2009, 21:06
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I've never had an automatic and have driven one once recently (Golf GT Sport mk5).
Not that impressed as I prefer control, I can't see what all the fuss is about with the DSG.
Surely it's just a slick and fast auto box....
I've ordered mine with a manual box, the dealer told me they get about a 50/50 split with manual/DSG.
Purely a personal opinion so no flack please.
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Oh, I was getting flak for choosing the DSG!
I think it entirely depends on the driver, and how you drive and what you want from the car. I've never had an automatic and wasn't even thinking about it. But I drove an automatic in the USA last autumn and liked it - partly because it's a lot easier to adapt to a left-hand-drive if you're not worrying about gears.
Then a couple of hours before my test drive a neighbour started to talk about the benefits of automatics.
Then the test-drive car happened to be a DSG. The salesman asked if I was OK to drive that, and I said OK, still not thinking about it. However, that evening I started to think about it. And decided to have it.
I get the feeling the anti-DSG voices are those who like over-revving their engines in low gear, and those who haven't driven one. The more DSG cars that are arriving, the more people are saying they like them. And if racing cars use them, then they can't be that much of a liability.
But manual has to be fine too - especially if you're not a lazy sod like me who can't be bothered to change down to overtake.
Rolfe.
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Ive never owned an auto before and only drove a car twice with it (mk5 & mk6 GTI) but this time I am going for DSG. I think it suits my driving conditions
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The best thing about the DSG is its also a manual. Whack it in M and use the stick and paddles to change on a fast road blast and its great fun, knowing your gears are changing quicker than those of a ferrari are nice aswell :grin:
Oh and for anyone who thinks manual is quicker
(one of the fastest human gear changers vs DSG)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o
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DSG is a cracking bit of kit and really is fast. I think I prefer manual for that bit more hands on fun.
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But DSG is manual mate, just knock the gear stick up and down instead of into positions!
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But DSG is manual mate, just knock the gear stick up and down instead of into positions!
I've never driven the GTI's DSG, only Audi TT's (S-Tronic) It had park, neutral, reverse and sport If I remeber rightly, Is that what you mean by still using the gear stick ? and of course the same flappy paddles for changing up and down.
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No, you knock the stick to the left and then can be used to change up and down (by knocking it up for up and down for down) and you can use the paddles. It means when you are turning and the paddles are out of reach you can knock the stick for the next gear.
Some people complain of it not holding gear but a DSG map allows for the gear to be held without changing and for a higher rev limit for a few quid, should come standard but i imagine its to save on emissions and for the common driver.
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No, you knock the stick to the left and then can be used to change up and down (by knocking it up for up and down for down) and you can use the paddles. It means when you are turning and the paddles are out of reach you can knock the stick for the next gear.
Some people complain of it not holding gear but a DSG map allows for the gear to be held without changing and for a higher rev limit for a few quid, should come standard but i imagine its to save on emissions and for the common driver.
Oh I didnt know that. I may call a garage and ask if I can take a DSG GTI out.
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It took me a good while to fully get to grips with it (over a month) and learn about how to use it (how much throttle to use to hold gears and when to change for optimum gears) but its so worth it! Great in D, fun in S on the motorway and a blast in manual when out for a spirited drive!
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No, you knock the stick to the left and then can be used to change up and down (by knocking it up for up and down for down) and you can use the paddles. It means when you are turning and the paddles are out of reach you can knock the stick for the next gear.
Some people complain of it not holding gear but a DSG map allows for the gear to be held without changing and for a higher rev limit for a few quid, should come standard but i imagine its to save on emissions and for the common driver.
Oh I didnt know that. I may call a garage and ask if I can take a DSG GTI out.
I wonder how many manual demo cars they have! :wink:
I had no thought about an automatic and had never heard of the DSG till I showed up for the test drive. If the demo car had been a manual I would probably have a manual on order right now (except reading this stuff I might be reconsidering rather smartish).
The dealer didn't try to sell me on it, and I'm only now catching on to some of what was going on and what he said - I accidentally knocked the stick to the left (when parked) and he said, you've just put it into manual. I didn't even ask him what he meant.
But all the cars I've seen (OK, three) have been DSGs. I'm thinking, softly, softly catchee monkey....
Rolfe.
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Theres loads of tweaks coming out for DSG now. A manual is very simple where as a DSG can be a manual and so much more!
Kickdown delete
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6nsSbpx-ps
A nice insight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EdjEE0edPw
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My MKVI is manual and my Scirocco was DSG.
DSG is superb but I think you become a little detached as it's easy to just leave it in auto. With a manual you have to change gears, with DSG it just adapts to whatever you are doing and gets on with it. DSG feels luxurious but not as 'raw' as a manual with clutch control.
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It took me a good while to fully get to grips with it (over a month) and learn about how to use it (how much throttle to use to hold gears and when to change for optimum gears) but its so worth it! Great in D, fun in S on the motorway and a blast in manual when out for a spirited drive!
I can see I need to learn. Actually, not just the DSG.
I have been driving since I was 17. I passed my test first time. I've never had a lesson since. I was almost 32 before I got my first car (I had a motorbike before that), but I've driven about 12,000 miles a year ever since then.
I had riding lessons for years, went on long after I could sit on a pony and walk trot and canter. I had singing lessons for years, and need more. Even top pros take lessons. Actually, even my motorbike lessons were more involving than my driving lessons - these were given by ACU guys, and they were really enthusiastic. Car driving lessons are just about getting you from A to B and passing the test.
I can see from a lot of these videos that there are driving skills and tricks I'm completely unaware of, stuff you wouldn't try on a public road, and certainly not for the first time. I guess I'll get to grips with the DSG OK. But I'm thinking I'd like to learn more. Never too late to learn, they say. Does anyone know of any driving courses held on a track where pros will impart some of these car handling skills to the ordinary Joe - or Jill as the case may be?
Rolfe.
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i've driven autos before and whilst you can knock them into a "manual" mode, its not like having a clutch and stick. now i know that DSG is an automated twin-clutch manual and its beats the spots off most human gear changers, but there's something in the pysche about the art of manually changing gear. think about those motoring film sequences where they liven the scenes up with copious gear changing! using paddles is undoubtedly quick and efficient, but it is perhaps too cold and clinical.
i've tried a DSG in a diesel golf before, didn't think that much about it. will try out a DSG gti this weekend and who knows... perhaps i'll come back a convert (tho a convert that will be £1.5k poorer!)
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Well, I originally intended to have the leather seats, but changed my mind the other way on that.
So I reckon I'm ahead on the deal.
Rolfe.
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How does the DSG cope with 3 to 5 changes or 5 to 3 or 6 to 4 etc?
From what I can gather most people use Auto mode most of the time which is probably what I'd do if I had DSG. And it uses more petrol, not much, but more.
Golf GTI Automatic ????? (Did they ever exist mk1-4?) :wink:
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erm....dsg is actually better on fuel as it sits in higher gears and puts less effort on the engine which means less fuel :wink: To give you an idea i can get 32mpg in my R32 while in D with no effort to achieve it, just general driving.
It is fine for block changes, just double press the paddle if you want to drop two cogs and you're there in 0.5 secs (or what ever it is lol)
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VW official figures show DSG as having a slightly lower mpg, slightly higher CO2 and slower top end (just..)
Obviously it depends on how you drive.
I can get 45mpg out of my mk5 manual GTI when I try. (30mpg when I don't)
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No they dont mate
(ed30 and R32, cant find GTI)
Ed30 (man) R32 (man)
Urban: 24.8 18.8
Extra-urban: 44.1 33.6
Combined: 34.0 26.2
Ed30 (DSG) R32 (DSG)
Urban: 26.2 21.4
Extra-urban: 44.8 36.2
Combined: 35.3 28.8
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I just checked the advertised figures for the Mk VI, and these are (combined) 38.8 for the manual and 38.3 for the DSG.
The manual has it, according to that, but half a mile per gallon isn't anything to lose sleep over.
Rolfe.
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Found this in my travels... TT DSG Vs TT Manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M
DSG was 0.4 secs faster round a track.
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No they dont mate
(ed30 and R32, cant find GTI)
Ed30 (man) R32 (man)
Urban: 24.8 18.8
Extra-urban: 44.1 33.6
Combined: 34.0 26.2
Ed30 (DSG) R32 (DSG)
Urban: 26.2 21.4
Extra-urban: 44.8 36.2
Combined: 35.3 28.8
Check out the VW site or a brochure.
The GTI manual has a better mpg, lower CO2 and higher top end. Fact.
That's a GTI mk6 manual compared with a GTI mk6 DSG. (VW official figures)
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You mean the same 'official' 0-60 of 7.2 when it was being tested at nearly a second quicker :rolleyes:
Writing fact at the end proves nothing mate, DSG is more economical, it is always in the optimum gear for the revs which uses as little power as possible when in D and driving slowly.
I just posted up the stats for you to see!
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You mean the same 'official' 0-60 of 7.2 when it was being tested at nearly a second quicker :rolleyes:
Writing fact at the end proves nothing mate, DSG is more economical, it is always in the optimum gear for the revs which uses as little power as possible when in D and driving slowly.
I just posted up the stats for you to see!
I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
Have VW got their figures wrong?
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Unsure, seems strange there is a noticable difference on the MK5 (in various engines from ED30 to R32) but there is a minor difference with the MK6 and it the other way around?
In all the MK5's the DSG is the more economical option, proven and backed up by various owners of both and comparisons. Will have to wait for more road tests and facts from sources other than VW.
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Unsure, seems strange there is a noticable difference on the MK5 (in various engines from ED30 to R32) but there is a minor difference with the MK6 and it the other way around?
In all the MK5's the DSG is the more economical option, proven and backed up by various owners of both and comparisons. Will have to wait for more road tests and facts from sources other than VW.
i think there's an article in last month's EVO about the way automatics are tested and how in fact the tests are very biased against manuals!! its all to do with what gear the cars are tested in so the official figures we see are actually very far off the everyday driving figures!!
i'll try and dig the article out - made for some interesting reading!!
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Tootling along in 6th, spot a gap that will get you safely out of the way of some gormless driving, press accelerator and the best gear is selected in an instant. The little turbo spools up quickly and you are away. Perfect every time.
In a manual everyone faffs around when the unexpected happens. Fine on a track but not so good in real life.
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Tootling along in 6th, spot a gap that will get you safely out of the way of some gormless driving, press accelerator and the best gear is selected in an instant. The little turbo spools up quickly and you are away. Perfect every time.
In a manual everyone faffs around when the unexpected happens. Fine on a track but not so good in real life.
Your on a road dude, not a race track, or you've been watching Fast and Furious too many times. :grin:
Not all manual drivers faff about, I'm pretty sure I speak for a lot of people when I say we know what gear were in, we know how fast were going and we know what gear to drop to to get the best acceleration, it may take a split second longer than a DSG (I believe reactions play a big part too) but does anyone really care ?
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These last two posts perfectly demonstrate why the DSG will suit some people but not others. I freely admit I'm in the first group. I'm frequently tootling along in 6th and do exactly as described. OK, I get past well enough, but I'd be a lot better off if I changed down. I recognise my deficiencies in this respect, and realise that it's worth my while shelling out for the DSG.
And I'm sure there are also lots of people in the second group, who have a reflex action that picks the right gear and selects it before carrying out any manoeuvre. Jolly good. You're a better driver than me. You have no need to shell out for the DSG.
Isn't it great that VW makes both sorts of cars, and we can each choose the one that suits us best! So, can we discuss the pros and cons sensibly, to allow everyone to decide which choice is best for them, and not get aerated that one or the other is objectively "best"?
Rolfe.
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Where the MK6 is concerned..
DSG is less economical. fact
DSG is not quicker 0-60. fact
And a DSG cannot changed down gears quicker than me. fact (and I will prove it)
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Unsure, seems strange there is a noticable difference on the MK5 (in various engines from ED30 to R32) but there is a minor difference with the MK6 and it the other way around?
In all the MK5's the DSG is the more economical option, proven and backed up by various owners of both and comparisons. Will have to wait for more road tests and facts from sources other than VW.
Looks as though we are both right on this Jules.
On all of the mk5 petrol models the DSG is more economical - for some reason it's the other way around with the diesel engines .
On the mk6 the 2.0 ltr TSI has a better mpg and CO2 with a manual box however the smaller engines are better with the DSG (7 spd).
Mk 6 Diesels are better again with manual.
Not much in it either way - it seems to depend on the engine.
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Where the MK6 is concerned..
DSG is less economical. fact
DSG is not quicker 0-60. fact
And a DSG cannot changed down gears quicker than me. fact (and I will prove it)
DSG is advertised as half a mile less per gallon, so yes, nobody is really disagreeing. It's not much though - much less than the variation you'll get with different driving styles or road conditions.
DSG is advertised as the same o-60 time as the manual, nobody is really arguing.
And fine, you're good at gear changing. You get to save £1,305. For those of us who are lesser mortals though, it's an option worth considering.
Rolfe.
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Where the MK6 is concerned..
DSG is less economical. fact
DSG is not quicker 0-60. fact
And a DSG cannot changed down gears quicker than me. fact (and I will prove it)
DSG is advertised as half a mile less per gallon, so yes, nobody is really disagreeing. It's not much though - muck less than the variation you'll get with different driving styles or road conditions.
DSG is advertised as the same o-60 time as the manual, nobody is really arguing.
And fine, you're good at gear changing. You get to save £1,305. For those of us who are lesser mortals though, it's an option worth considering.
Rolfe.
I was just clearing a few things up. thank you for your oh so valuable input :wink: :rolleyes:
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Why do I only spot typos after someone has quoted my post? :sad:
Rolfe.
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Why do I only spot typos after someone has quoted my post? :sad:
Rolfe.
your careless. dsg will suit you :tongue:
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I await the Mk6 version of that now famous Japanese clip on Youtube of the Mk5 manual .v. DSG drag race. My money is still on the DSG in the Mk6 to hand the manual it's ass.
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Why do I only spot typos after someone has quoted my post? :sad:
Rolfe.
your careless. dsg will suit you :tongue:
Sorry R32UK. Couldn't resist. :evil:
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Why do I only spot typos after someone has quoted my post? :sad:
Rolfe.
your careless. dsg will suit you :tongue:
Sorry R32UK. Couldn't resist. :evil:
lol.. point taken :grin:
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found the article - i'll get it scanned but the jist of it is that the tests are done on a rolling road and the shift speeds for manual cars are stupidly low. Automatics however are allowed to run the test in whatever gear they want thus give the impression that they emit much lower emissions :nerd:
So all you DSG drivers who think they will benefit from a few more MPG don't count on it!!
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Where the MK6 is concerned..
DSG is less economical. fact
DSG is not quicker 0-60. fact
And a DSG cannot changed down gears quicker than me. fact (and I will prove it)
Always makes me chuckle people writing FACT!
You have seen tests where both cars have been used daily to compare over a long period of time for mpg figures then?
You have seen various tests using timing gear with dsg's and manual's on the same day for fairness (temp, track condition etc) have you mate?
You are officially the fastest gear changer ever then FACT if you can change quicker than a DSG! :laugh:
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My company mk5 GTI DSG in my hands over the past 3 years gets ~3mpg less average than my own personal manual mk5 GTI does. (thats brim to brim countless times) But i put that down to driving style, that the DSG is loaded with options and the box is heavier anyway were mine is basic spec, and also that the DSG is iirc slightly lower geared.
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Where the MK6 is concerned..
DSG is less economical. fact
DSG is not quicker 0-60. fact
And a DSG cannot changed down gears quicker than me. fact (and I will prove it)
Always makes me chuckle people writing FACT!
You have seen tests where both cars have been used daily to compare over a long period of time for mpg figures then?
You have seen various tests using timing gear with dsg's and manual's on the same day for fairness (temp, track condition etc) have you mate?
You are officially the fastest gear changer ever then FACT if you can change quicker than a DSG! :laugh:
The first 2 points I made are fact because they say so in the mk6 brochure. I havent had the luxury of having driven both so on this occasion I think I will throw caution to the wind and go with VW's figures (remember this is the mk6 and not the mk5 we are talking about).
As for dsg being more economical... i very much doubt it. The MK5 dsg I had over a period of 5 fills was not even close to providing the same economy my manual does, even though the book stated it was very slightly better.
Lets try a little ewxperiment..
Change down from 6th to 2nd using your dsg and i will do the same... whos quicker now?? :wink: :grin:
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I think its difficult to quantify which of the two is efficient and good for the mileage. The DSG is a new technology that is being improved very quickly and is I must admit dam-n good. Its like having an AI in the car already geared to change into the gear you are just thinking of changing to. In my opinion, it all lies in the driver. Whether manual or DSG, it all depends on the way you drive the car. I believe I read in another thread that Rolfe did mentioned after her test drive with the DSG, she felt that her way of driving her manual Peugeot was inefficient. So I guess if you tend to floor it whether with the DSG or the manual, MPG I reckoned would suck either way.
Just my thoughts, and I think what would lay the matter to rest is to have two identical cars, one with DSG and the other manual, drive the same circuit at the same speed and see what happens. And that would be a finding worth waiting for. :tongue:
Cheers,
HM
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I think its difficult to quantify which of the two is efficient and good for the mileage. The DSG is a new technology that is being improved very quickly and is I must admit dam-n good. Its like having an AI in the car already geared to change into the gear you are just thinking of changing to. In my opinion, it all lies in the driver. Whether manual or DSG, it all depends on the way you drive the car. I believe I read in another thread that Rolfe did mentioned after her test drive with the DSG, she felt that her way of driving her manual Peugeot was inefficient. So I guess if you tend to floor it whether with the DSG or the manual, MPG I reckoned would suck either way.
Just my thoughts, and I think what would lay the matter to rest is to have two identical cars, one with DSG and the other manual, drive the same circuit at the same speed and see what happens. And that would be a finding worth waiting for. :tongue:
Cheers,
At a guess.. thats what VW would have done during testing :rolleyes:
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At a guess.. thats what VW would have done during testing :rolleyes:
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ha ha ha yeah you are probably right... but what I wanted to see is an independent party such as Top Gear or Fifth Gear to put the issue to rest... You know Volkswagen has always been a little conservative in whatever they publish...
HM
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I don't think my driving is especially fuel-inefficient, but I have a bad habit of going quickly up into 6th and staying there, even going uphill and overtaking. The Peugeot pulls pretty well whichever gear you're in so it's forgiving of that. But I should definitely change down more.
So, I'm lazy. I hope the DSG will take care of this without me having to bother. I hope the fuel consumption isn't much less than the manual though, I bought the figure of 0.5mpg which is OK, but if it was much more than that I could regret the DSG.
Rolfe.
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Lets try a little ewxperiment..
Change down from 6th to 2nd using your dsg and i will do the same... whos quicker now?? :wink: :grin:
Still the DSG mate as being in S will put it straight down to the quickest gear :wink:
My DSG gets 30mpg driving in London.
Fair enough its the MK6 but DSG will still be more economical as it relaxes you into driving it slower as its easier. I barely press the pedal in the 32 as its so easy to drive and im in 6th by about 15mph!
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At a guess.. thats what VW would have done during testing :rolleyes:
ha ha ha yeah you are probably right... but what I wanted to see is an independent party such as Top Gear or Fifth Gear to put the issue to rest... You know Volkswagen has always been a little conservative in whatever they publish...
HM
[/quote]
Which is why I now believe they have corrected what they got wrong in MK5 book. Never could get dsg to be as economical as manual with my driving style.
with the extra initail cost of dsg, plus that of the dsg services and limitations on modding, if your buying dsg for economy then its a bit of a false economy really :undecided:
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Lets try a little ewxperiment..
Change down from 6th to 2nd using your dsg and i will do the same... whos quicker now?? :wink: :grin:
Still the DSG mate as being in S will put it straight down to the quickest gear :wink:
My DSG gets 30mpg driving in London.
Fair enough its the MK6 but DSG will still be more economical as it relaxes you into driving it slower as its easier. I barely press the pedal in the 32 as its so easy to drive and im in 6th by about 15mph!
I agree, that with the 32 the low down torque always means it settles into 6th very quickly. But in every day driving if you want to go a little faster it always wants to drop a couple of cogs too many.
For the dsg to get from 6th to 2nd it does still have to go down through each gear :wink:. I would go straight from 6th to 2nd :tongue:
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I would doubt if anyone is buying the DSG for economy. I'm buying it because I think I'll like it, and hoping I don't pay for it with too much of a decrease in economy.
Of course, specifying it instead of the leather seats, makes me £460 up on the deal at the start! :wink:
Rolfe.
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I don't think my driving is especially fuel-inefficient, but I have a bad habit of going quickly up into 6th and staying there, even going uphill and overtaking. The Peugeot pulls pretty well whichever gear you're in so it's forgiving of that. But I should definitely change down more.
When I test drove the manual GTI a few weeks ago, there is an indicator on which gear (most efficient) I should be on and this is located at the top mid-section of the speedometer. What amazes me is that it constantly suggested that I should be on the 6th gear even at 50km/h...
Rolfe, I think we are all guilty of being lazy when driving a manual once in awhile. The DSG will help you drive more efficiently. I got the manual because I want my driving to be an engaging one. I currently drive an automatic BMW 5 series and I miss the feel of being in control with a manual especially driving in winding and hilly roads.
HM
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According to that indicator, I'm already doing it right then? :rolleyes:
I expect I'll only know once I've driven the thing a bit, but I'm hoping to be in the right gear going up hills without having to take a hand of the steering wheel and a bit of my brain from the road. You know what they say about multi-tasking thinking as you get older.... :cool:
I drove an ordinary automatic (at least I think it was ordinary) for a day in the USA last year and liked it - though I have to say I didn't do anything especially demanding. I'm looking forward to getting used to it and losing the reflec to hit the clutch. (When I was having my GTi test drive I inadvertently tested its emergency stop by hitting the brake hard with my left foot.... :sad: )
Rolfe.
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Lets try a little ewxperiment..
Change down from 6th to 2nd using your dsg and i will do the same... whos quicker now?? :wink: :grin:
For the dsg to get from 6th to 2nd it does still have to go down through each gear :wink:. I would go straight from 6th to 2nd :tongue:
You have to change down through though (travel the stick from 6th to 2nd and depress and release the clutch) The dsg will just drop straight down. I could also hit the peddle 4 times which woul dbe quicker than you moving the stick.
It changes quicker than the ferrari F430's box mate! DSG is silly fast!
(hate it when it quotes you without the /quote bit at the end!!)
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I agree, that with the 32 the low down torque always means it settles into 6th very quickly. But in every day driving if you want to go a little faster it always wants to drop a couple of cogs too many.
For the dsg to get from 6th to 2nd it does still have to go down through each gear :wink:. I would go straight from 6th to 2nd :tongue:
[/quote]
I agree with you... :evil:
HM
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I currently drive an automatic BMW 5 series and I miss the feel of being in control with a manual especially driving in winding and hilly roads.
HM
fully agree. i had a 530i auto and i actually had more fun in my wife's manual aygo! hence manual for me in the gti :)
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You cant compare a BMW auto against the twin clutch semi-aut DSG box on the GTI :rolleyes:
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as impressive as the dsg is at fast changes what can isay but it all feels Numb
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Fair enough.
I will put money on you not using manual properly though :evil:
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You cant compare a BMW auto against the twin clutch semi-aut DSG box on the GTI :rolleyes:
I was not comparing the performance of the automatic transmission of the BMW and the DSG on the Golf GTI. I was comparing the feeling of driving a manual over an automatic transmission. No matter the fact that the DSG has the manual option (via paddles or shifting with the stick), it still lacks the sense of engagement when one drives with the clutch and shifting the gear manually. The sensation of feeling involved in the manual drive cannot be compared to just flicking a paddle and say that its also engaging...
In any case, this is subjective and all of us can argue/discuss which is a better feel till the end of days and still reach no conclusions... ha ha ha
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Fair enough.
I will put money on you not using manual properly though :evil:
i don't understand i use manual to my driving taste/mood
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Fair enough.
I will put money on you not using manual properly though :evil:
As I mentioned earlier Jules, it is likely that some of us lazy humans may err on gear shifting resulting in the inefficient use of manuals but one cannot deny the feeling of exhililaration dring one over the DSG. I have driven both and I must say the DSG is a good and excellent piece of engineering. In performance, I cant deny its capabilities. Its great but somehow I miss something. Cant quite put my finger on it, but I lack a certain feel about it.
HM
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I mean manual in DSG. It took me over a month to fully get to grips with manual when it 'clicked'
Im well aware of the capabilities of a 'proper' manual, i had a type r before which has one of the best gear boxes in any car! Manual mode in DSG is smoother and quicker than even that and is a joy to use coupled with the stick to knock up and down for when the peddles are out of reach!
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Fair enough.
I will put money on you not using manual properly though :evil:
As I mentioned earlier Jules, it is likely that some of us lazy humans may err on gear shifting resulting in the inefficient use of manuals but one cannot deny the feeling of exhililaration dring one over the DSG. I have driven both and I must say the DSG is a good and excellent piece of engineering. In performance, I cant deny its capabilities. Its great but somehow I miss something. Cant quite put my finger on it, but I lack a certain feel about it.
HM
I think you put your finger on it right there! :grin:
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All you luddites will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century eventually! The day is fast approaching where manuals will be reserved for top end performance/niche models only. You can't stop the march of technology.
Vive la revolution! :grin:
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Does a DSG still require a full driving licence, or would an automatic licence cover it ?
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Love this ad!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41DuKI9OKbs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41DuKI9OKbs)
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
That's a brilliant AD.
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All you luddites will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century eventually! The day is fast approaching where manuals will be reserved for top end performance/niche models only. You can't stop the march of technology.
Vive la revolution! :grin:
another 30 yrs or so and I will be in the prime dsg age bracket anyway :laugh: :grin:
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All you luddites will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century eventually! The day is fast approaching where manuals will be reserved for top end performance/niche models only. You can't stop the march of technology.
Vive la revolution! :grin:
another 30 yrs or so and I will be in the prime dsg age bracket anyway :laugh: :grin:
:grin:
Another good vid here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M). Think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread.
Hopefully it might convince some of you non-believers that the DSG is a serious piece of kit and not some gimmick, or oldsmobile auto box.
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I dont doubt that dsg is better round a track for an average driver. however I think a pro will be able to produce equally impressive results.
My problem with the dsg is simply that it puts people into lazy mode.. whats the point in buying a "fun hot hatch" then taking the "fun" away??
might as well buy something else... :undecided: Obviously those who live and drive in built up areas, you are slightly forgiven :tongue:
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All you luddites will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century eventually! The day is fast approaching where manuals will be reserved for top end performance/niche models only. You can't stop the march of technology.
Vive la revolution! :grin:
another 30 yrs or so and I will be in the prime dsg age bracket anyway :laugh: :grin:
:grin:
Another good vid here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M). Think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread.
Hopefully it might convince some of you non-believers that the DSG is a serious piece of kit and not some gimmick, or oldsmobile auto box.
0.4 secs faster and £1500 more expensive. For a third of that money, you could get a remap. Blow the DSG away and have £1000 in your pocket.
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But that's just the thing R32UK - for me and I dare say a lot of others, it doesn't take away the fun. I still really enjoy the DSG box and find it still puts a smile on my face. I don't miss my old manual cars at all, and I really don't think I'd ever go back to a manual. The box is so versatile and has a 'mode for every mood'. If I'm driving to work in busy traffic or just feel like a lazy drive I stick it in D, when I want a sportier, more aggressive shift pattern I stick it in sport, and when I want to be more involved or when out on the twisties I drive it in manual and it's a howl.
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But that's just the thing R32UK - for me and I dare say a lot of others, it doesn't take away the fun. I still really enjoy the DSG box and find it still puts a smile on my face. I don't miss my old manual cars at all, and I really don't think I'd ever go back to a manual. The box is so versatile and has a 'mode for every mood'. If I'm driving to work in busy traffic or just feel like a lazy drive I stick it in D, when I want a sportier, more aggressive shift pattern I stick it in sport, and when I want to be more involved or when out on the twisties I drive it in manual and it's a howl.
I guess thats why its almost a perfect 50/50 split when it comes to new golf orders! :laugh:
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All you luddites will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century eventually! The day is fast approaching where manuals will be reserved for top end performance/niche models only. You can't stop the march of technology.
Vive la revolution! :grin:
another 30 yrs or so and I will be in the prime dsg age bracket anyway :laugh: :grin:
:grin:
Another good vid here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M). Think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread.
Hopefully it might convince some of you non-believers that the DSG is a serious piece of kit and not some gimmick, or oldsmobile auto box.
0.4 secs faster and £1500 more expensive. For a third of that money, you could get a remap. Blow the DSG away and have £1000 in your pocket.
Seeing as DSG's are more sought after for second hand models you will be better off keeping that £1000 for when you sell it on :wink:
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All you luddites will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century eventually! The day is fast approaching where manuals will be reserved for top end performance/niche models only. You can't stop the march of technology.
Vive la revolution! :grin:
another 30 yrs or so and I will be in the prime dsg age bracket anyway :laugh: :grin:
:grin:
Another good vid here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M). Think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread.
Hopefully it might convince some of you non-believers that the DSG is a serious piece of kit and not some gimmick, or oldsmobile auto box.
0.4 secs faster and £1500 more expensive. For a third of that money, you could get a remap. Blow the DSG away and have £1000 in your pocket.
Seeing as DSG's are more sought after for second hand models you will be better off keeping that £1000 for when you sell it on :wink:
Your probably right about the second hand ones being sought after.. only you will be very lucky to see your £1000 back. Not to mention that the incompetence of dealerships will probably add to the number of problems we see with dsg in future. :lipsrsealed:
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Hi,
I think having the DSG in a spanking new car is fine. But if it were me, I would not get a DSG after the car is more than 5 years old. I am pretty certain that maintenance and issues with it will start to crop in after 5 years. So I would still go for a manual car for long term savings. This is not to say I am against people in getting the DSG in their new car. Its just that I am balancing long term use over ease of use in the short term.
I would wait for a few more years until reliablility issues with the DSG is fully ironed out. Considering commercial introduction of the DSG was only made in 2008, the technology needs to mature a little longer before I am confident in it.
HM
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I've no intention of letting a dealer maintain my new car. There is a small independent garage in the village where I live, and when I switched the Peugeot to him after nine years of dealer service, it was like a different car. And he's cheaper. (And the garage is 10 minutes walk from my house and there is a bus stop outside that can take me to work.) So we'll see.
If it does turn out to be a liability, I've always got the option of changing at that stage, and put it down to experience. But having read all the discussion, I'm up for giving it a go!
Rolfe.
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I would wait for a few more years until reliablility issues with the DSG is fully ironed out. Considering commercial introduction of the DSG was only made in 2008, the technology needs to mature a little longer before I am confident in it.
HM
What reliability issues are you referring to? The DSG box has proven to be extremely robust and reliable, as much so as the manual. I have mine over a year and a half and it hasn't skipped a beat yet, and my car is putting out a lot more than 200bhp. I've only ever read of one problem on an internet forum (may have been this one?) where someone's mechatronics unit failed and was replaced under warranty. I've also seen plenty of the manual boys complaining of clutch issues such as slip, and indeed failures. This DSG reliability issue that some people keep referring to is a red-herring IMO.
And for the record DSG was introduced with the Mk5 in 2005. It's been around for four years now. That's pretty mature technology in my book. VW/Audi would have ditched it if it wasn't up to the job. Instead they are continuing to develop the technology with the new 7 speeds and higher torque versions etc..
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DSG since 2008? The 7 speed was introduced then not DSG :rolleyes: Think you have made up issues that dont exist to put yourself off mate. There are 0 known issues, absoloutly nothing wrong or commonly wrong with DSG. The only times i have heard of it failing are due to too much power (like any clutch) or not having oil replaced.
DSG has been around since before 2003 iirc, thats 6 years and still no issues.
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Yeah perhaps I have been inaccurate, I was refering to the 7 speed DSG and how it is being applied to the new mk6s since this is a forum for mk6s... Please see this link for issues with the DSGs... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3968936
Since I believe the forum is for discussions, I am just making points for discussion and not to make absolute statements.
HM
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99% of those are low mileage problems. No common long use issues.
The mk6 is not getting the 7speed? Its been created purely for lower engined models as it has a much lower torque threshold.
Have no problem with you making points, as long as there not as inaccurate as they keep being.
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I would say the jerkiness at roundabouts and when reversing are issues to consider. As is clutch slip. Although I know hurdy has had these issues and managed to get them resolved through a dsg software upgrade. Maybe these little issues have been ironed out... yet to be confirmed though i would say.
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99% of those are low mileage problems. No common long use issues.
The mk6 is not getting the 7speed? Its been created purely for lower engined models as it has a much lower torque threshold.
Have no problem with you making points, as long as there not as inaccurate as they keep being.
Hah! and short term problems is not a prelude to long term issues dear? And if you care to google the issues with DSGs, there are longer term problems surfacing. When I pointed out the problems with the DSG has not matured yet, I meant it takes more than 5 years to iron out all the kinks. It took more than 10 - 15 years of classic auto transmissions to become reliable as it is today. I am not saying DSG is bad. All I am saying it will take awhile before I would rely on it after the warranty ends. I aint forking Euro3k to replace the box after 5 - 6 years.
As to my inaccuracies, well I dont think other that the fact I meant to say its for the mk6, I have erred elsewhere... in any case, you should be polite and not be so sarcastic on open forums.
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DSG has been around since before 2003 iirc, thats 6 years and still no issues.
And from no issues to lots? Am I the only one not being accurate? ha ha ha We all make mistakes or make inaccuracies... I just want to thank you for pointing out mine...
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There are not 'lots' of issues so im not inaccurate. The only ones are immediate warranty issues. The same as all other issues in a new car. No, short terms issues are not problems in the long term once they have been rectified....why do you think they offer warranties :rolleyes:
Oh the key word was 'open' so ill be as sarcastic as i like thanks, there are no rules that state i must be polite, just not offensive :wink:
I would say the jerkiness at roundabouts and when reversing are issues to consider. As is clutch slip. Although I know hurdy has had these issues and managed to get them resolved through a dsg software upgrade. Maybe these little issues have been ironed out... yet to be confirmed though i would say.
Mine isnt jerky mate, in S it is but thats inevitable. Reversing is also perfectly fine, not sure what you mean? Clutch slip is to do with oil, hurdy is running over 300bhp mate so hardly even fair to mention, run the same through a manual clutch and its going to slip at some point as it was made for 230bhp by VW.
A DSG map does fix all the minor niggles VW hasnt though (higher rev limit, higher launch on R32's, holding gears longer in M and a few more)
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Well Jules, this is a place for discussing cars and not about social conditioning. You have
your definition of what constitutes polite and I have mine... So I will not continue on that issue.
All I am saying is, in my opinion I would wait a little longer before buying a car with the DSG. Yes, warranties are there for many reasons but it does not justify the fact there are still problems with the DSG in new cars even after 5 years or so being in the market as you so eloquently mentioned. Its one thing to have your trims rattle and another when your DSG is causing you to `head-bang` due to jerkiness. No new owner should feel that way in their new car regardless of warranty. I know many people loves the DSG, but as I said, its a subjective thing.
So dont take the issue so seriously and be less uptight. Relax, life at 23 is just the beginning... pace yourself... :laugh:
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Has anybody here actually taken delivery of a Mk VI with DSG yet? Interested to hear any first-hand experiences.
Rolfe.
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Has anybody here actually taken delivery of a Mk VI with DSG yet? Interested to hear any first-hand experiences.
Rolfe.
yup.
Love it for general driving (which is 99% of the time),but like the guys say its missing a little something (being able to combine clutch, gears and accelerator) to do exactly what you want. But saying that I am a convert, in future I'd see DSG as an essential rather than an option.
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i drove a DSG yesterday. as you'd expect, it felt very smooth and presented no problems at all. made it really easy to drive. kept the car very quiet as well.
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Well Jules, this is a place for discussing cars and not about social conditioning. You have
your definition of what constitutes polite and I have mine... So I will not continue on that issue.
All I am saying is, in my opinion I would wait a little longer before buying a car with the DSG. Yes, warranties are there for many reasons but it does not justify the fact there are still problems with the DSG in new cars even after 5 years or so being in the market as you so eloquently mentioned. Its one thing to have your trims rattle and another when your DSG is causing you to `head-bang` due to jerkiness. No new owner should feel that way in their new car regardless of warranty. I know many people loves the DSG, but as I said, its a subjective thing.
So dont take the issue so seriously and be less uptight. Relax, life at 23 is just the beginning... pace yourself... :laugh:
No one has a problem with you deciding that DSG is not for you. Horses for courses etc..Just say it's not for me, but don't try to invent problems that don't exist. Remember, you are talking to lots of members here who have been running the DSG box for years on their Mk5's, who likely know a thing or two about it's reliability.
There are no known issues with the DSG gearbox. It's as reliable as the manual. So deciding you are not willing to get a car with DSG because of reliability fears is completely groundless, and frankly bonkers.
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My Dear Max,
I am not trying to invent problems for the DSG. Far from it, I am just expressing an opinion and concern to the forum. The same as you are. So I am not sure what's your issue with me having mine?
HM
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Judging by the posts so far seems to be a definite Marmite option.
Personally I wouldn't want an auto box in a car like a GTI, surely some of the driving experience is lost and that sort of defeats the object in owning one.
No matter how quick and slick the changes are an auto will never have the same control as a manual, also an auto is not able to anticipate gear changes (putting the car in the correct gear just before you need it). Yes, there is a manual mode but...
Just my opinion.
Thankfully VW have given us all the choice. :wink:
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My Dear Max,
I am not trying to invent problems for the DSG. Far from it, I am just expressing an opinion and concern to the forum. The same as you are. So I am not sure what's your issue with me having mine?
HM
No issue at all with you having your opinion, just attempting to point out that it is irrational and groundless.
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No issue at all with you having your opinion, just attempting to point out that it is irrational and groundless.
[/quote]
Ha ha ha I am not even going to dignify a response to this sort of one track mind.
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I agree with GolfTi, its two different feeling to driving a car. If you like an automatic and hassle free, get the DSG. If you want the thrill and exhiliration of feeling in control, get the manual.
I believe that more complicated a technology is, more things can go wrong with it. Of course I am not making a scientific statement that I regard the DSG will fail or is unreliable. I just feel so and I would want a solid discussion on the matter to appease my curiosity and what is VAG doing to ensure that its customers are satisfied whether its defective chips or components in the mechatronics or what nots.
I guess thats why I joined this forum, since I wanted to have a lively discourse with what common people felt about the Golfs and in particular the Mk6s including the new GTI.
Cheers,
HM
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I'd have no issues with buying DSG again, had it in the Scirocco but wouldn't pay the extra for it now, hence the MK6 manual. I just prefer the feel of the manual but did love the DSG. If it was a no cost option then i might be tempted but just wouldn't pay for it.
However I don't keep my cars for long, certainly not as long as warranty periods so it's irrelevant for me. I did have an Audi A4 multitronic and had three gear boxes under warranty in a year. Audi dealers call that gearbox 'multitragic' but one things for sure, DSG is a fantastic & innovative bit of kit but with more bits moving and two clutches etc, surely the more problems are possible to occur. High performance usually means high maintenance. Who's got a high mileage car with DSG? That could shed some light?
Nowadays though I bet a new manual gearbox in a GTI would cost the earth....
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:lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=123043.0
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R32UK
Thanks - interesting stuff.
Anyone know of any problems with the manual gearboxes??
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Here is the standard way of leaving manual drivers for dust...
Wait until they settle into 6th then floor it.
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:lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=119912.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=120015.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=81643.0
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Here is the standard way of leaving manual drivers for dust...
Wait until they settle into 6th then floor it.
so then you will only be racing yourself if manual drivers settle in sixth gear, you come across like them turbo diesel drivers who put their foot down over 20 yards in traffic trying to prove something
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Here is the standard way of leaving manual drivers for dust...
Wait until they settle into 6th then floor it.
Wow!! thats amazing :rolleyes:
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R32UK
Thanks - interesting stuff.
Anyone know of any problems with the manual gearboxes??
I've heard a few who have had problems with the dual mass flywheel
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:lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=119912.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=120015.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=81643.0
Thanks for them links Jules. Sounds like mk5's are sh!t.
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:lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=119912.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=120015.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=81643.0
Thanks for them links Jules. Sounds like mk5's are sh!t.
Easy tiger!! I have one of them :grin:
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:lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=119912.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=120015.0
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=81643.0
Thanks for them links Jules. Sounds like mk5's are sh!t.
And mk6's are what? Oh yes, facelifted mk5s...... :grin:
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Now ,now ladies play nice,we don`t want to end up with slanging match again. :tongue:
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Now ,now ladies play nice,we don`t want to end up with slanging match again. :tongue:
Its Sunday evening, happy hour is from 7 till 8. :smiley:
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Then Top Gear is on at 8 so the world goes on hold...... :lipsrsealed:
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Then Top Gear is on at 8 so the world goes on hold...... :lipsrsealed:
oh shizzel... thats now!!
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Then Top Gear is on at 8 so the world goes on hold...... :lipsrsealed:
oh shizzel... thats now!!
You not got it on series link ? :shocked:
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Then Top Gear is on at 8 so the world goes on hold...... :lipsrsealed:
oh shizzel... thats now!!
You not got it on series link ? :shocked:
Have now!! :grin:
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Lets try a little ewxperiment..
Change down from 6th to 2nd using your dsg and i will do the same... whos quicker now?? :wink: :grin:
Nope - you loose! If you use the kickdown in the DSG, it can go from 6th to 2nd in less than a third of a second, whilst 'blipping' the throttle to match the engine revs. Try going from 6th to 2nd in a manual, and you will need serious clutch, throttle and stick control. Been there, done that, still wearing the T-shirt!
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For the dsg to get from 6th to 2nd it does still have to go down through each gear :wink:. I would go straight from 6th to 2nd :tongue:
Not necessarilly. The ONLY time the DSG goes through each gear like that is when it is in manual mode, and the shifts are called for 'manually' via the paddles or shift lever. But when it is in any of the auto modes, or even in manual mode and kickdown is used, the DSG can 'skip' certain ratios - and when in 6th, it DOES kickdown straight into 2nd! :nerd: :smug: :nerd: :smug:
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I would wait for a few more years until reliablility issues with the DSG is fully ironed out. Considering commercial introduction of the DSG was only made in 2008, the technology needs to mature a little longer before I am confident in it.
Huh - you are only 5 years late with that! The DSG was introduced in 2003 in the Mk4 R32, and the Audi TT - and have more than proved their reliability. I suggest you look at the wikipedia DSG article (which was mainly written by me) - and you will realise that the DSG is basically two manual gearboxes in one - so ancient technology, a pair of oil-bathed multi-plate clutches (which are used in nigh-on all motorbikes, so again, well-proven technology), and a 'mechantronics' module - which is exactly what ALL electronically controlled conventional autoboxes use. So what, exactly, needs 'proving' ????
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I would wait for a few more years until reliablility issues with the DSG is fully ironed out. Considering commercial introduction of the DSG was only made in 2008, the technology needs to mature a little longer before I am confident in it.
Huh - you are only 5 years late with that! The DSG was introduced in 2003 in the Mk4 R32, and the Audi TT - and have more than proved their reliability. I suggest you look at the wikipedia DSG article (which was mainly written by me) - and you will realise that the DSG is basically two manual gearboxes in one - so ancient technology, a pair of oil-bathed multi-plate clutches (which are used in nigh-on all motorbikes, so again, well-proven technology), and a 'mechantronics' module - which is exactly what ALL electronically controlled conventional autoboxes use. So what, exactly, needs 'proving' ????
Yep, I have been corrected on this point. Strangely, I was reading wikipedia too but I guess I must have quoted the wrong year. ho ho ho In any case, what I was trying to point out is that whilst I like the technology that the DSG brings, there are still issues plaguing it. Some are lucky and some not. What worries me is that even after 6 years, people are still having problems with the DSG. So until production is more consistent and better QC introduced, I will stick to manual.
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Yep, manual is of course infallible! Not heard of any issues of a manual ever going wrong on any cars :undecided:
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Yep, manual is of course infallible! Not heard of any issues of a manual ever going wrong on any cars :undecided:
Well, nothing is a sure thing... my dear... even for manuals :nerd: but its just I that I dont want to end up in a workshop too often. Been there once too many a time because I liked a technology and I went for it but then ended up wasting my time and my enthusiasm trying to get it fixed. I know some of you folks swear by it but I will wait for a bit. I am not a techie like some of you folks but I guess my perception needs convincing he he he.
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manuals never go wrong? Wrong! somehow i managed to bust up my accord type r's gear box. lost reverse gear. luckily was still under warranty.
prob down to my human error, but still fallible.
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See, if the GTI/R32 maual was on par with the civic type r's manual box then i would say go for it over the DSG, however any manual after that is a clunky piece of turd :grin:
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See, if the GTI/R32 maual was on par with the civic type r's manual box then i would say go for it over the DSG, however any manual after that is a clunky piece of turd :grin:
the type r gearboxes had excellent gear changes. i'm hoping the manual golf is decent enough.
that said, i was lucky enough to try a 911's manual gearbox yesterday, tbh, it was pretty poor! i got the wrong gear a couple of times and crunched the box once (the clutch has a really low biting point)....
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I found the 911's very close to the type r's mate (was a 996 carrera 2 iirc) I tried the R32 in manual, after my type r i found it awful so new DSG was for me!
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hmmm... i was driving a 996 carerra 2 as well. this was on one of those experience day things.
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the type r gearboxes had excellent gear changes. i'm hoping the manual golf is decent enough.
that said, i was lucky enough to try a 911's manual gearbox yesterday, tbh, it was pretty poor! i got the wrong gear a couple of times and crunched the box once (the clutch has a really low biting point)....
The clutch must be worn out, and the cables need adjusting.
They should be like a rifle blot...silky smooth, and mechanical.
In saying that, the Short Shifter can make 1st-2nd hard when the gearbox oil is cold, and it's easy to baulk between 2nd-3rd and 4th-5th...you can easily hit the dead space between 3rd and 5th...not great. The standard shift is harder to mess up, I seem to recall.
You shouldn't be able to crunch it at all...I can pretrty much flat shift in mine, with barely a tap on the clutch...and it doesn't crunch. (I'm sure it will if I keep driving like that though!).
My Integra Type R had the best gearbox I've ever used...it was sublime.
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dc2 or dc5?
(at risk of this turning into a type r forum! :evil:)
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I found the 911's very close to the type r's mate (was a 996 carrera 2 iirc) I tried the R32 in manual, after my type r i found it awful so new DSG was for me!
In my view it is too...
Type-R possibly just a bit smoother...but then it doesn't have the loads to deal with, so it can be lighter in action.
I'm not a fan of VAG manual boxes in either feel or use.
Every one I've had had ended up with 2nd gear synchro wear - probably down to me trying to go accross the gate quickly with little clutch!
But, every one has gone the same way.
020, 02A, 02M...I ended up having my 02A reboilt, and sold the S3 with a clunk on the 2nd to 3rd change.
Fair enough, if you slow the shift down, they were fine...but it's mine and I want to be able to change gear as fast as I want without the gearbox destroying itself (other makers can manage it...why not VAG)...I'm thinking DSG this time around.
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dc2 or dc5?
(at risk of this turning into a type r forum! :evil:)
DC2. Shh....! :wink:
(Probably the best car I've owned & ever driven hard. 911 is good...but breaks a lot. The ITR never broke or missed a beat, road or track.)
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I agreed Porsche 6 speed aren't the best in the world. (Strangely their 5 speeder is much better.) I don't think it's that bad. Maybe that the car you drove around had a very hard life. Also if the car got the shortshift option, they are notoriously difficult to use when the weather is cold. Saying this if you find a Porsche gearbox difficult to use, you can forget those from GT3, Aston, Ferrari or R8. They are a real challenge. But if you get it right, it is very satisfying! It make you feel like you are a very good driver!
I was really tempted to go for the DSG as I will use the Golf as a daily driver. After driving a manual version with ACC. I think the gearchange is good enough for me that I don't think it will be hard work to drive that car in town. Its no way near the best though! The best manual gearbox I ever experience are usually cars from Japan and France---a 2003 Civic Type-R, 306 Rallye, 106 Rallye and MX-5. Not sure whether it got something to do with low torque with these cars????
Its less convincing to buy a DSG this time
1. Same acceleration from 0-60mph. Slower in-gear acceleration. Lost 2mph topspeed (Not important in UK)
2. Use a touch more fuel and will cost more to fix
Saying this, I did tell my dealer Im happy with DSG if I can get my car earlier! :smiley:
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not the mention the extra cost!
good or bad, i just like changing gears, hence for me DSG is out
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Point taken about the manual being clunky.. but this was only when new. After a couple of thousand miles it smooth as a babies butt
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The R32 i tried wasnt mate. Possibly a dog though?
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Oh dear... :cry:
Had an extended test drive of a GTI DSG yesterday...and ended up taking it back early because I couldn't get on with the gearbox.
Drove DSG on a 170 TDI and liked it...but on a petrol? Not for me...
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I must admit, the one I test drove was very smooth and I was dead impressed given it has clutches and not a torque converter. Having driven autos for the last ten years, I'm going from an auto (with steptronic) to a DSG and was happy with the instant gear change when using the paddles, compared with the second or so delay with the auto. I realise you don't get as much control as in a manual (when booting it from a standing start, say) but I'm happy for the car to do most of the gear changes for me now, unless I feel the urge to press on a bit.
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Oh dear... :cry:
Had an extended test drive of a GTI DSG yesterday...and ended up taking it back early because I couldn't get on with the gearbox.
Drove DSG on a 170 TDI and liked it...but on a petrol? Not for me...
Tell us more... what was it specifically you didn't get on with?
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Tell us more... what was it specifically you didn't get on with?
In 'manual' it still changed up when it wanted to...not when I did.
Also, dropped down another gear, when I didn't want it to - came up behind a lorry in 6th, in 'manual', clicked down 2 into 4th...lorry passes, I plant the foot and am happy in 4th...but no, DSG wants 3rd, hence jarring, much revving and much swearing by the driver as car lurches about.
In 'normal' it changed up about the right point, for me...
In 'sport' it revved higher than I probably would for the load the engine was under.
Midway round a corner, in 5th, I press the accellerator to allow the boost to build and the torque to pull me through the bend...but no, it decides to drop a gear, just about on the apex of the bend...no, no, no.
I really wanted to like it...I had convinced myself I was having a DSG GTI...but 15 mins later it had me swearing...and 2 hours later pulling my hair out.
I liked it on a Mk5 GT TDI 170...maybe it just suits the lower revving, torquey diesels better?
Anyway, I came away feally deflated. I really thought I'd like it, and keen to option it...but came away with a deep hatred of it.
Horrible!
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Quite a similar experience to what I found, but it does take practice to improve. Its almost like the car is only using the accelerator to decide which gear you should be in.
You will have more fun in the manual anyway :wink:
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Can you get a remap for the DSG? I'm sure I've seen people talking about these things elsewhere, they seemed to mention you could then have it hold onto the gear and not change up near the rev limit.
I bet the salesman must have really enjoyed himself in some of the test drives :smiley: (white knuckle ride).
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Quite a similar experience to what I found, but it does take practice to improve. Its almost like the car is only using the accelerator to decide which gear you should be in.
I'm sure it may get 'better', or me more tolerant...but I don't want to have to get more tolerant...I want the car to do exactly as I want...not the other way round.
But, it's not going to happen.
You will have more fun in the manual anyway :wink:
You are quite right...
Even the 'clicks' of the paddles was underwhelming. A real let down in all honestly.
No matter...despite not liking the gearbox, this long test at least allowed me to judge the car properly...and I'm impressed.
Quicker than I thought. Deceptively so really...
Be much better as a manual though... :evil:
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Can you get a remap for the DSG? I'm sure I've seen people talking about these things elsewhere, they seemed to mention you could then have it hold onto the gear and not change up near the rev limit.]
Maybe...but you shouldn't have to buy a new car and immediately start putting right the wrongs...it should be just so from new. With manual, it is.
I bet the salesman must have really enjoyed himself in some of the test drives :smiley: (white knuckle ride).
Fortunately this last test drive was a 'take it away for as long as you want, it's full of fuel...but please don't bend it' sort of un-accompanaied test drive.
The best sort...
I want to drive how I will drive my car...not how some goon in a cheap suit and plastic shoes decides I should drive.
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[/quote]
...not how some goon in a cheap suit and plastic shoes decides I should drive.
[/quote]
:grin:
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Can you get a remap for the DSG? I'm sure I've seen people talking about these things elsewhere, they seemed to mention you could then have it hold onto the gear and not change up near the rev limit.]
Maybe...but you shouldn't have to buy a new car and immediately start putting right the wrongs...it should be just so from new. With manual, it is.
But then you could also use the same arguement about the engine, why chip it (but people do)? I would have thought engine, gearbox and other systems in modern cars have a margin of safety and tolerance built in, all you're doing is changing it to behave they way you prefer (and reducing the margins). :huh:
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But then you could also use the same arguement about the engine, why chip it (but people do)? I would have thought engine, gearbox and other systems in modern cars have a margin of safety and tolerance built in, all you're doing is changing it to behave they way you prefer (and reducing the margins). :huh:
Indeed you could..
But you'd chip it to give you more of what you want...not completely change the function, just do more of what it does anyway.
Same for fitting big brakes...
But with DSG you'd have to completely change it's operation...which would involve removing it and fitting a 6 speed manual with a gear lever, in order to make me happy with it.
No matter, I went in with an open mind...and came out with a very firm opinion.
Manual it is.
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You mean the same 'official' 0-60 of 7.2 when it was being tested at nearly a second quicker :rolleyes:
Writing fact at the end proves nothing mate, DSG is more economical, it is always in the optimum gear for the revs which uses as little power as possible when in D and driving slowly.
I just posted up the stats for you to see!
I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
Have VW got their figures wrong?
There is and article on EVO Magazine, July issue I think, arguing about the Co2 and fuel Economy figures of Automatic cars.
In summary, Car markers cheat using gearboxes map for gear selection that manual car can not copy because the car would stall. I will try to scan the article and post it here
I am still deating fi manual o DSG. I the future maybe I will do a remap, a mkVI and it seems that DSG can not hold to much torque, 280Nm is the limit?
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Hurdy and jonnyc have ALOT more torque than that :laugh:
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In 'manual' it still changed up when it wanted to...not when I did.
It will only change up above redline to protect the engine - that's the only instance in which it will change up in manual. Did you redline it? If not, then are you sure you were in manual (i.e. shifter in the gate to the left of D), or just the temporary manual takeover when you start shifting with the paddles with the shifter still in D? In the manaul takeover mode it reverts to auto after 30s of non-use of the paddles, and so might change up in this case.
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It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too
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It will only change up above redline to protect the engine - that's the only instance in which it will change up in manual. Did you redline it?
I did, and it changed up...not that I'm in the habit of sitting on the limiter, but on the track, there is a regular instance where I have done in the past, to avoid a up, immediate down change...I wanted to know it would do it, as a manual will...and it won't.
If not, then are you sure you were in manual (i.e. shifter in the gate to the left of D), or just the temporary manual takeover when you start shifting with the paddles with the shifter still in D? In the manaul takeover mode it reverts to auto after 30s of non-use of the paddles, and so might change up in this case.
Accross the gate for sure....I got fed up with the ECU taking over and reverting back in temporary manual takeover.
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It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too
I didn't like that either...
I had already decided 4th would be fine, as I'd dropped two gears (at the speed 'it' wanted too, not the speed I wanted it to!) but oh no, DSG wanted 3rd...
The result was manic revving and much cursing...
4th and full throttle would have been just fine.
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It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too
I didn't like that either...
I had already decided 4th would be fine, as I'd dropped two gears (at the speed 'it' wanted too, not the speed I wanted it to!) but oh no, DSG wanted 3rd...
The result was manic revving and much cursing...
4th and full throttle would have been just fine.
try it in an R32 mate.. scares the crap out of anyone stood within 10ft of you!! :laugh:
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try it in an R32 mate.. scares the crap out of anyone stood within 10ft of you!! :laugh:
I remembered it working better on the 3.2 V6s...doesn't it blip the throttle on a down change on the 3.2?
I couldn't hear that on the GTI.
The 3.2 is maybe better suited to DSG.
Certainly the TDIs seem better suited, from my experience.
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Jules, you can override the kickdown in manual by holding the '+' paddle after a shift-up while mashing the pedal into the kickdown switch. :nerd:
Ess_Three, full throttle on a DSG car is full travel of the accelerator as far the kickdown switch only but not beyond it. You'll feel a definite resistance when you get to the kickdown switch. This is WOT in a DSG car. You must have gone beyond WOT and into the kickdown on that bend. There is a way to override it as I said above. There is a definite learning curve with DSG - you've really got to understand how it works and the logic it uses to get the most out of it. I know this won't be everyone's cup of tea, as some people will say I just want to be able to drive the car without having to learn how to use it first and that's understandable too.
Edited for typo.
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It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too
I didn't like that either...
I had already decided 4th would be fine, as I'd dropped two gears (at the speed 'it' wanted too, not the speed I wanted it to!) but oh no, DSG wanted 3rd...
The result was manic revving and much cursing...
4th and full throttle would have been just fine.
Thats why a test drive is not a good enough example. All the things you have said you dont like happened because you cant use DSG. Once you know how to use it its sublime, some people just dont click with it though which is fair enough.
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I've been reading this tread with some interest as I'm about to make a decision on DSG/Manual :undecided: When I bought my mk5 everybody was going on about the dsg and I was sure about my manual choice as I didn't want an "automatic" :tongue:
Then after getting mine I drove a mates dsg and felt geeeez this thing is something else.... so
After driving a 6 DSG last weekend I was blown away by it :cool: It's clear that it's a different application all together when it comes to driver input. For me the DSG box will work... well because I'm no longer "racing" my cars... :laugh: gear selection into corners with lift off oversteer and all sorts of reckless boyish behaviour is not going to go on forever (in my case) :grin: so the comfort of a dsg for city use and the fun element while planting your rightfoot is more than sufficient for keeping me entertained.
About 2 years ago I went to a motorshow and drove with a professional instructor. This was in a mk 5 DSG on a short circuit track and boy was I impressed with his skills :cool: Won't even manage to do half the stuff he did with a manual so guess as MaxQ said you have to learn the dsg's dynamics. So I don't really think the one is better than the other. It all depends on what kind of driver you want to be and to use your tools correctly... :cool:
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Jules, you can override the kickdown in manual by holding the '-' paddle while mashing the pedal into the kickdown switch. :nerd:
Ess_Three, full throttle on a DSG car is full travel of the accelerator as far the kickdown switch only but not beyond it. You'll feel a definite resistance when you get to the kickdown switch. This is WOT in a DSG car. You must have gone beyond WOT and into the kickdown on that bend. There is a way to override it as I said above. There is a definite learning curve with DSG - you've really got to understand how it works and the logic it uses to get the most out of it. I know this won't be everyone's cup of tea, as some people will say I just want to be able to drive the car without having to learn how to use it first and that's understandable too.
Thats interesting i didn't know that. I'm bouncing between the manual and DSG on a weekly basis. But this advise might just convince me to go DSG.
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Thats why a test drive is not a good enough example. All the things you have said you dont like happened because you cant use DSG. Once you know how to use it its sublime, some people just dont click with it though which is fair enough.
I understand there is an element of understanding and adapting to be done. But I'm not prepared to. I'll adapt to the limits of the chassis and brakes...but the gearbox has to do what I want it to do - like the manual does.
So for me, it was a no-brainer.
I'd argue that an extended test drive isn't enough.
I was frustrated with it within 10 mins, didn't like it by 30 mins...and after an hour, I hated it.
No amount of living with it was going to give me any other opinion...it doesn't do what I want it to...so I'll buy the manual instead.
I'm sure it's different for others...
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I understand there is an element of understanding and adapting to be done. But I'm not prepared to. I'll adapt to the limits of the chassis and brakes...but the gearbox has to do what I want it to do - like the manual does.
Um, but it was doing what you told it to do... you just weren't telling it the right things because obviously you don't understand how to use a DSG. I guess it's a case of someone blaming the tools for his own mistakes.
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i thought this discussion had ended 10 pages ago when it was decided that a manual is for a real driver and a dsg is for an old man/granny
:grin:
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Thought I may aswell dive in.
I remember speaking to someone at Volkswagen when we all went to the Mark 6 Golf training at Milton Keynes about customers (mis)understandings around DSG. He said then that by the end of the year (2009) they intend to include a "training" DVD with every new car that has a DSG box. This presumably would explain exactly what it does, how to get the most from it etc. So far we haven't seen any info about these DVDs but I hope they do bring them out. Not only would they be a good thing for customers to have once they've got the car (Could even watch it on the RNS510) but also for guys like you who are still undecided?
If they do bring anything out, i'll be sure to post on here.
Incidentally, there are several videos on youtube (mainly from the states) where people have made some actually quite factual films explaining DSG....
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Have gone for DSG (my first auto in 20 years - clearly must be getting middle aged) in the Mk6 I pick up on Tuesday. Previous car was a Z4 3.0 Coupe and before that I had a number of test in TTs some manual some S-Tronic (Audis DSG) it was mainly the S-tronic that nearly swung it for the TT. This time I decided I'd give the DSG a try as it seems to give you the best of both worlds. My intention at the moment is pop it in D and in town and in heavy traffic (M6 etc) and then in manual when pushing on probably using the paddles rather than lever...and in this situation it swaps cogs quicker than I can and is no less involving. Hasn't all this technology come from F1?
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I would wait for a few more years until reliablility issues with the DSG is fully ironed out. Considering commercial introduction of the DSG was only made in 2008, the technology needs to mature a little longer before I am confident in it.
Huh - you are only 5 years late with that! The DSG was introduced in 2003 in the Mk4 R32, and the Audi TT - and have more than proved their reliability. I suggest you look at the wikipedia DSG article (which was mainly written by me) - and you will realise that the DSG is basically two manual gearboxes in one - so ancient technology, a pair of oil-bathed multi-plate clutches (which are used in nigh-on all motorbikes, so again, well-proven technology), and a 'mechantronics' module - which is exactly what ALL electronically controlled conventional autoboxes use. So what, exactly, needs 'proving' ????
Yep, I have been corrected on this point. Strangely, I was reading wikipedia too but I guess I must have quoted the wrong year. ho ho ho In any case, what I was trying to point out is that whilst I like the technology that the DSG brings, there are still issues plaguing it. Some are lucky and some not. What worries me is that even after 6 years, people are still having problems with the DSG. So until production is more consistent and better QC introduced, I will stick to manual.
OK, but as others have no doubt pointed out, manual gearboxes can go wrong, manual clutches can wear out, the dual mass flywheel on a manual is known to be a weak point . . . .
But for the DSG specifically, the only real 'achilies heel' - if it could even remotely be described as such, is the mechatronics. But these mechatronics are used on ALL modern electronically controlled automatic gearboxes - so BMW, Merc, Audi, Shaguar, Lexus, etc, etc. You dont hear of normal autoboxes failing - and the DSG will be just as reliable as any conventional auto - or any manual box.
And as a final couple of points, if the DSG were so 'fragile', then why is it used on the Bugatti Veyron, and why is it that Porsche are now using it too - the PDK. :wink:
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Tell us more... what was it specifically you didn't get on with?
In 'manual' it still changed up when it wanted to...not when I did.
Also, dropped down another gear, when I didn't want it to - came up behind a lorry in 6th, in 'manual', clicked down 2 into 4th...lorry passes, I plant the foot and am happy in 4th...but no, DSG wants 3rd, hence jarring, much revving and much swearing by the driver as car lurches about.
In 'normal' it changed up about the right point, for me...
In 'sport' it revved higher than I probably would for the load the engine was under.
Midway round a corner, in 5th, I press the accellerator to allow the boost to build and the torque to pull me through the bend...but no, it decides to drop a gear, just about on the apex of the bend...no, no, no.
I really wanted to like it...I had convinced myself I was having a DSG GTI...but 15 mins later it had me swearing...and 2 hours later pulling my hair out.
I liked it on a Mk5 GT TDI 170...maybe it just suits the lower revving, torquey diesels better?
Anyway, I came away feally deflated. I really thought I'd like it, and keen to option it...but came away with a deep hatred of it.
Horrible!
It honestly seems like you didn't give the DSG a chance. The DSG uses an adaptive shift pattern - but it needs to 'learn' the drivers style. This can take a couple of engine on/engine off cycles (just like when an engine ECU adapts to different fuel grades). :nerd:
Give it another much longer go. :wink:
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It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too
No it wont. The gearbox still shifts automatically, even if kickdown has been activated. :nerd:
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It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too
I didn't like that either...
I had already decided 4th would be fine, as I'd dropped two gears (at the speed 'it' wanted too, not the speed I wanted it to!) but oh no, DSG wanted 3rd...
The result was manic revving and much cursing...
4th and full throttle would have been just fine.
try it in an R32 mate.. scares the crap out of anyone stood within 10ft of you!! :laugh:
Its prolly YOU they are scared of! :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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And as a final couple of points, if the DSG were so 'fragile', then why is it used on the Bugatti Veyron, and why is it that Porsche are now using it too - the PDK. :wink:
Would that be the same Bugatti Veyron that uses the Haldex??? :tongue: Maybe we should save that discussion for another day! :grin:
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In my earlier post about overriding the kickdown switch in manual - I meant the '+' paddle and not the '-' paddle. I've edited my post. It has no practical use on the road for driving IMO but is used on rolling roads to ensure a full in gear run at WOT. All you DSG owners try it for yourselves - flick the gear selector over to manual, change up a gear using the '+' paddle but keep the paddle held, mash your right foot to the floor all the way into the kickdown, and viola - no kickdown (as long as the paddle is held).
Disclaimer: This ain't in the owners manual, so do so at your own risk!
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As an aside, I think the DSG kickdown function can even be disabled completely using VAG-COM.
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Um, but it was doing what you told it to do... you just weren't telling it the right things because obviously you don't understand how to use a DSG. I guess it's a case of someone blaming the tools for his own mistakes.
Umm...well the thing is, when 'I' decide I want that I want 4th gear for driving 'my' car on a road I know, and overtaking in a manner I am happy with...4th is the blo*dy gear I expect the gearbox to stay in...whether manual or DSG.
I don't want the ECU deciding I my selecting 4th isn't correct and selecting 3rd.
I want 4th...
I'm in manual...
I've dropped two gears manually...
I accellerate in 4th because I only want 4th gear accelleration, but I want full throttle, 4th gear accelleration - as I would in a manual car...but no, DSG wants 3rd.
I fail to see how me selecting 4th was me in some way not understanding a gearbox (manual or DSG in manual...it's still 4th)..nor do I see how your comment stands about me blaming the 'tool' for my mistakes.
It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?
At least with a manual it stays in the gear I want.
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It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?
That's one aspect of DSG that a lot of people would like to see changed (i.e kickdown should be disabled in M mode).
There are DSG remaps available that will disable kickdown in M mode (as well as other tweaks), so it is possible.
With practice it is possible to "feel" the point at which kickdown is about to kick in, and you can learn to avoid kickdown, but the natural thing to do when overtaking is mash your right foot to the floor :evil:
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Um, but it was doing what you told it to do... you just weren't telling it the right things because obviously you don't understand how to use a DSG. I guess it's a case of someone blaming the tools for his own mistakes.
Umm...well the thing is, when 'I' decide I want that I want 4th gear for driving 'my' car on a road I know, and overtaking in a manner I am happy with...4th is the blo*dy gear I expect the gearbox to stay in...whether manual or DSG.
I don't want the ECU deciding I my selecting 4th isn't correct and selecting 3rd.
I want 4th...
I'm in manual...
I've dropped two gears manually...
I accellerate in 4th because I only want 4th gear accelleration, but I want full throttle, 4th gear accelleration - as I would in a manual car...but no, DSG wants 3rd.
I fail to see how me selecting 4th was me in some way not understanding a gearbox (manual or DSG in manual...it's still 4th)..nor do I see how your comment stands about me blaming the 'tool' for my mistakes.
It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?
At least with a manual it stays in the gear I want.
But that's the thing; you are expecting the DSG in manual mode to behave like a fully manual box and it isn't, it's a DSG in manual mode. Your expectations were wrong because you didn't know how a DSG was supposed to work. If you don't like a kick down that's fine, I can accept that, but don't blame the box for a design feature that you didn't know about and you initiated by putting your foot down when, as others have stated, it's something that can be avoided if you are aware of it.
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I am curious of how many % of cars capable of having DSG are so equipped and of these how many are expierencing mechantronic faults. If VAG have so much confidence why doesn't the unit come with a 10 year parts warranty. Personally I am leaning towards DSG but not a potential £2k bill.
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Um, but it was doing what you told it to do... you just weren't telling it the right things because obviously you don't understand how to use a DSG. I guess it's a case of someone blaming the tools for his own mistakes.
Umm...well the thing is, when 'I' decide I want that I want 4th gear for driving 'my' car on a road I know, and overtaking in a manner I am happy with...4th is the blo*dy gear I expect the gearbox to stay in...whether manual or DSG.
I don't want the ECU deciding I my selecting 4th isn't correct and selecting 3rd.
I want 4th...
I'm in manual...
I've dropped two gears manually...
I accellerate in 4th because I only want 4th gear accelleration, but I want full throttle, 4th gear accelleration - as I would in a manual car...but no, DSG wants 3rd.
I fail to see how me selecting 4th was me in some way not understanding a gearbox (manual or DSG in manual...it's still 4th)..nor do I see how your comment stands about me blaming the 'tool' for my mistakes.
It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?
At least with a manual it stays in the gear I want.
The point people are making is that it would have stayed in 4th for you had you not mashed the pedal into the kickdown switch - thereby asking the box to kickdown for immediate acceleration. If you just wanted a full throttle run in gear you just select the gear and push the accelerator all the way as far as the kickdown switch and not beyond it. This is full throttle on a DSG car and it does take a bit of feel and learning for your right foot. You can feel a definite resistance when you get to the kickdown. The car won't kickdown and you'll get your full throttle run in 4th.
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I am curious of how many % of cars capable of having DSG are so equipped and of these how many are expierencing mechantronic faults. If VAG have so much confidence why doesn't the unit come with a 10 year parts warranty. Personally I am leaning towards DSG but not a potential £2k bill.
From what I've read, the VW DSG problem is related to a specific (faulty) batch of Mechatronic units (something to do with a Teflon coated solenoid switch or something, where the Teflon coating comes off). There is a recall in America :
Linky (http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/28/news/recalls-tsbs/volkswagen-recalls-53300-new-vehicles-announces-service-program-to-address-dsg-complaints/)
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But that's the thing; you are expecting the DSG in manual mode to behave like a fully manual box and it isn't, it's a DSG in manual mode. Your expectations were wrong because you didn't know how a DSG was supposed to work. If you don't like a kick down that's fine, I can accept that, but don't blame the box for a design feature that you didn't know about and you initiated by putting your foot down when, as others have stated, it's something that can be avoided if you are aware of it.
Yes, I was, you are correct.
In Auto, I'd expect it to do what it wants...but in manual, I was expecting a 6 speed automated manual type gearbox...I expected it to behave like a manual, when in the mode described as 'manual'.
And it didn't...
For me, that was the deal breaker.
I understand that for others, it's no big deal, or they'll drive round it, or have it rtemapped out...but for me...it's a simple 'no thanks'.
I shouldn't have to 'avoid' things in 'manual'.
Manual should mean manual...and in the case of the DSG, it doesn't.
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The point people are making is that it would have stayed in 4th for you had you not mashed the pedal into the kickdown switch - thereby asking the box to kickdown for immediate acceleration. If you just wanted a full throttle run in gear you just select the gear and push the accelerator all the way as far as the kickdown switch and not beyond it. This is full throttle on a DSG car and it does take a bit of feel and learning for your right foot. You can feel a definite resistance when you get to the kickdown. The car won't kickdown and you'll get your full throttle run in 4th.
I understand the point.
What I don't understand is why in Manual, does 'it' decide that it should kick down...if I want full throttle (pedal hard down) at relatively modest speeds to allow the torque to build and take ma past an obstacle, why does DSG overwrite that decision with a dropdown?
I was told - and fully expected - manual to mean manual - regardless of the amount of throtte travel asked for....and that's not the case.
I'm sure some love it, or live with it...but I can't / won't.
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And as a final couple of points, if the DSG were so 'fragile', then why is it used on the Bugatti Veyron, and why is it that Porsche are now using it too - the PDK. :wink:
Would that be the same Bugatti Veyron that uses the Haldex??? :tongue: Maybe we should save that discussion for another day! :grin:
Yes, but the Veyron only uses a Haldex to send power to the front axle (the same as the Audi R8). But both use a Torsen inside the rear axle (instead of a conventional open diff). :nerd:
Score draw? :tongue: :grin: :grin:
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From what I've read, the VW DSG problem is related to a specific (faulty) batch of Mechatronic units (something to do with a Teflon coated solenoid switch or something, where the Teflon coating comes off). There is a recall in America :
Linky (http://www.autoinsane.com/2009/08/28/news/recalls-tsbs/volkswagen-recalls-53300-new-vehicles-announces-service-program-to-address-dsg-complaints/)
Wow. Thanks for that. A pretty recent recall and a major one at that.
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It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?
That's one aspect of DSG that a lot of people would like to see changed (i.e kickdown should be disabled in M mode).
Why? I just don't get that - because to enable the kickdown, you have to press the accelerator pedal against a noticable step in resistance - and if you can't feel that through your right foot, then maybe you should sell the car, and use the bus! :rolleyes:
There are DSG remaps available that will disable kickdown in M mode (as well as other tweaks), so it is possible.
Agree. But even in manual mode, kickdown can be exceedingly usefull if used correctly.
With practice it is possible to "feel" the point at which kickdown is about to kick in, and you can learn to avoid kickdown, but the natural thing to do when overtaking is mash your right foot to the floor :evil:
Well then you only have yourself to blame. The kickdown switch is very noticeable. :wink:
And don't forget, the DSG has an 'intelligent kickdown' too. :nerd: :smug:
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Well then you only have yourself to blame. The kickdown switch is very noticeable. :wink:
And don't forget, the DSG has an 'intelligent kickdown' too. :nerd: :smug:
It can have as much 'intelligent' bits and pieces as VAG deem appriopriate...but it still doesn't axcuse manual not being manual.
DSG isn't - mechanically speaking - an automatic gearbox in the accepted sense, it's an automated manual...so why when you choose to control the logic using your brain, and not an electronic one, can't it just leave you to it, as other manufacturers automated manuals do?
In auto, I would be happy for the ECU to use as much learning and 'intelligent' calculations as it sees fit..but in manual, it should move to the correct gear when you ask it to (within the mechanical limits of the engine) - which it doesn't...it moves when it wants to (you can't just tap straight down 3 gears if the engine revs and road speed make it safe to do so, as it'll drop one, then wait, then wait again) and should remain in the gear 'you' selected until 'you' change it.
That would be what manual means.
You shouldn't have to worry about pressing the pedal down too far in manual either...it should just stay in the damn gear yoiu select. End of.
In auto, fine...do what it wants and you'd learn to adapt to it.
But in manual, it should mean manual. And it doesn't.
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Well then you only have yourself to blame. The kickdown switch is very noticeable. :wink:
And don't forget, the DSG has an 'intelligent kickdown' too. :nerd: :smug:
It can have as much 'intelligent' bits and pieces as VAG deem appriopriate...but it still doesn't axcuse manual not being manual.
DSG isn't - mechanically speaking - an automatic gearbox in the accepted sense, it's an automated manual...so why when you choose to control the logic using your brain, and not an electronic one, can't it just leave you to it, as other manufacturers automated manuals do?
In auto, I would be happy for the ECU to use as much learning and 'intelligent' calculations as it sees fit..but in manual, it should move to the correct gear when you ask it to (within the mechanical limits of the engine) - which it doesn't...it moves when it wants to (you can't just tap straight down 3 gears if the engine revs and road speed make it safe to do so, as it'll drop one, then wait, then wait again) and should remain in the gear 'you' selected until 'you' change it.
That would be what manual means.
You shouldn't have to worry about pressing the pedal down too far in manual either...it should just stay in the damn gear yoiu select. End of.
In auto, fine...do what it wants and you'd learn to adapt to it.
But in manual, it should mean manual. And it doesn't.
It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe. An argument can be made for whether the kickdown function should be available in manual or not. However, with a bit of experience you'll know where full throttle is and where the kickdown starts.
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It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe.
Well, it wasn't as instant as I'd have expected...probably a couple of seconds. Not what I was expecting based on driving other automated manuals (E-Gear, PDK, SMG etc)...I didn't imagine it, that's for sure.
An argument can be made for whether the kickdown function should be available in manual or not. However, with a bit of experience you'll know where full throttle is and where the kickdown starts.
I don't doubt that for one minute...what's surprising is that it's there at all when in manual.
No matter. I tried it, went in with an open mind and really wanted to like it, and probably tried to trip it up where I could as I didn't want to buy the car then find out I didn't like it....what's surprising to me was quite how soon I disliked it - especially after really liking it on a 170 TDI.
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This thread could go on and on.
I had DSG in my scirocco and have manual in the GTI. Both great but different, manual is for me for now but I can see the appeal of the DSG but unless you drive it around in manual all the time the manual box is more engaging for me.
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It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe.
Well, it wasn't as instant as I'd have expected...probably a couple of seconds. Not what I was expecting based on driving other automated manuals (E-Gear, PDK, SMG etc)...I didn't imagine it, that's for sure.
An argument can be made for whether the kickdown function should be available in manual or not. However, with a bit of experience you'll know where full throttle is and where the kickdown starts.
I don't doubt that for one minute...what's surprising is that it's there at all when in manual.
But the kick down button is a manual function. It only operates when you hit it. You're talking as if the car decides when to drop down and it doesn't. It's no different than if you put your hand on a paddle and change down but you're using a foot instead.
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well i hope no one flames me for this! just putting in my thoughts and 2 cents!
in my humble opinion, both are good. i believe which one to chose if purely up to the buyer, of which, he may have various reasons for making the decision.
on my part, (not considering on how much the car cost here :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:, oh by which, if you do the currency exchange, you can buy 2 GTI's and crash test one there! haha)
i'm driving a manual car. a Honda Jazz, i've done a lot of things to that car. all extreme NA, to extreme Turbo charging it.
have seen and felt what it can do and where and what the limits are. :sick:
a manual car is great fun though, but in my place, 60% of times, i get into a traffic jam, and trust me, using a 3 puck clutch is no fun in a traffic jam that can last about 1hr! :angry:
for my upcoming GTI, i'll chose the DSG, because, 1st of all, its a new game plan for me.
2nd, looking at the traffic situation here, i'll probably live longer getting less angrier! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
3rd, looking at the specs that its faster than the manual, (don flame me ok! lol! i know it been debated tones of times), i'd like to give it a try! considering the fact that when i used to race, once in a while i'd miss shift! :embarassed: :embarassed:
with the DSG, all you go is up, or down without miss shifting!
i'll miss the heel and toe for sure, but with the DSG i think i'll feel like an F1 driver! :embarassed: :laugh: :grin:
i guess its all to preference and the driver's current situation! lol! :wink:
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Did no one else notice that you cant actually use the paddles when going round a corner??? :huh: :sad:
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Did no one else notice that you cant actually use the paddles when going round a corner??? :huh: :sad:
Agreed,
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You can, its easier to use the gearstick though.
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Did no one else notice that you cant actually use the paddles when going round a corner??? :huh: :sad:
Agreed,
is that cos the paddles are fixed to the steering column? shouldn't really be changing gears mid-corner though no? (esp a sharp one where the paddles are further away)
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Did no one else notice that you cant actually use the paddles when going round a corner??? :huh: :sad:
Agreed,
is that cos the paddles are fixed to the steering column? shouldn't really be changing gears mid-corner though no? (esp a sharp one where the paddles are further away)
Yeah they are fixed. Shouldn't really be.. but for road use its sometimes required. On a track its obviously different, which is why I stand by my original statement that dsg would be great for track use (if you dont know how to drive :tongue:). :evil:
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It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe.
Well, it wasn't as instant as I'd have expected...probably a couple of seconds. Not what I was expecting based on driving other automated manuals (E-Gear, PDK, SMG etc)...I didn't imagine it, that's for sure.
Well I don't know what rpm you were at and what gears you were attempting to flick through, but you can take it from me, a DSG owner for 2 years, that the car will drop gears as fast as you can hit the paddles. I just tried it this evening on my way home from work.
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It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe.
Well, it wasn't as instant as I'd have expected...probably a couple of seconds. Not what I was expecting based on driving other automated manuals (E-Gear, PDK, SMG etc)...I didn't imagine it, that's for sure.
Well I don't know what rpm you were at and what gears you were attempting to flick through, but you can take it from me, a DSG owner for 2 years, that the car will drop gears as fast as you can hit the paddles. I just tried it this evening on my way home from work.
I can vouch for that - the changes are instantaneous.
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Well I don't know what rpm you were at and what gears you were attempting to flick through, but you can take it from me, a DSG owner for 2 years, that the car will drop gears as fast as you can hit the paddles. I just tried it this evening on my way home from work.
And you can take it from me, that the Mk6 GTI I drove didn't...and I tried it several times.
I want click, click, click.
It went down one, delay, down another, long delay, down a gain.
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But the kick down button is a manual function. It only operates when you hit it. You're talking as if the car decides when to drop down and it doesn't. It's no different than if you put your hand on a paddle and change down but you're using a foot instead.
I make my living controlling processes...and in Manual, nothing happens unless the operator (or driver) tells it to.
In Automatic, the controller (ECU) looks after it.
Kickdown, in MANUAL is not a MANUAL function, its an AUTOMATIC function...manual should mean MANUAL and should remove kickdown completely and stay in the gear you have selected. If the ECU changes down when in MANUAL it's not in MANUAL as I'd expect it to be.
That's the point I'm making.
I didn't click the paddle to change gear because I disn't want any other gear than the one I had selected...and that shouldn't change regardless of the position of my right foot.
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Well I don't know what rpm you were at and what gears you were attempting to flick through, but you can take it from me, a DSG owner for 2 years, that the car will drop gears as fast as you can hit the paddles. I just tried it this evening on my way home from work.
And you can take it from me, that the Mk6 GTI I drove didn't...and I tried it several times.
I want click, click, click.
It went down one, delay, down another, long delay, down a gain.
Well then there was something wrong with the car you drove. You have DSG owners categorically telling you that is not how the car behaves.
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20 pages :rolleyes:
If he doesnt like it he doesnt like it! Its an option for a reason; some people wont like it!
This section needs a mod as these threads are pointless and this will not help anyone new to here, if anything it will put them right of the forum!
Lets move on guys, this was all done in the mk5 section a long time ago and, although im sure it will happen in the mk7 section, lets try and buck the trend and cut it short :wink:
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This section needs a mod as these threads are pointless and this will not help anyone new to here, if anything it will put them right of the forum!
As someone trying to decide whether to have DSG I've actually found this 'debate' very interesting and informative. This thread plus a search of the Mk5 forum have provided a huge amount of useful information. Having been out this morning and actually driven a DSG I thought I'd throw in my opinion.
Although the drive was only a half hour, I have to say I was very, very impressed with the system. As an automatic with occasional use as a manual it seems almost perfect. In heavy traffic it would be ideal - just like any auto box - and I understand why many people would choose it. However, like Ess_Three I'm not convinced by the manual mode. In my opinion he's right - manual should mean total manual override without possibility of intervention of the computer.
I understand the arguement regarding the kickdown switch being a manual control and I'm sure I would gain the finesse needed to prevent it activating but really the kickdown is a throttle position switch for the benefit of the ECU when in automatic mode and in my opinion should be disabled in manual mode.
It's not great engineering - two paddles and a centre lever really are more than adequate for manual control of the system. To include a fourth by keeping kickdown activated in manual mode is too much. They should keep it simple. After all a manual gearbox works just fine with two controls - clutch and gear lever.
Plus I'm a lover of the satisfaction of driving a car well. Automated systems like ABS, ESP, DSG, ETC(!) might be safer, or quicker, or supposedly 'more efficient' than me, but I enjoy providing the input myself. Let a machine to do the work and you take away from the man.
Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...
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http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/vw-and-audi-models-recalled-over-two.html :rolleyes: :lipsrsealed:
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Well then you only have yourself to blame. The kickdown switch is very noticeable. :wink:
And don't forget, the DSG has an 'intelligent kickdown' too. :nerd: :smug:
It can have as much 'intelligent' bits and pieces as VAG deem appriopriate...but it still doesn't axcuse manual not being manual.
DSG isn't - mechanically speaking - an automatic gearbox in the accepted sense, it's an automated manual...so why when you choose to control the logic using your brain, and not an electronic one, can't it just leave you to it, as other manufacturers automated manuals do?
In auto, I would be happy for the ECU to use as much learning and 'intelligent' calculations as it sees fit..but in manual, it should move to the correct gear when you ask it to (within the mechanical limits of the engine) - which it doesn't...it moves when it wants to (you can't just tap straight down 3 gears if the engine revs and road speed make it safe to do so, as it'll drop one, then wait, then wait again) and should remain in the gear 'you' selected until 'you' change it.
That would be what manual means.
You shouldn't have to worry about pressing the pedal down too far in manual either...it should just stay in the damn gear yoiu select. End of.
In auto, fine...do what it wants and you'd learn to adapt to it.
But in manual, it should mean manual. And it doesn't.
It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe.
But kickdown is still far quicker. In manual mode, when using the paddles, the DSG only works sequentially - which means it has to go from 6 to 5, 5 to 4, 4 to 3, etc. It can not 'skip' intermediate gear ratios. However, with kickdown, it completely over-rides the sequential gear change pattern - and can go from 6th straight into 2nd, completely missing out all the ratios in between. :nerd: :smug:
So the paddles, AND the kickdown - both have very distinct advantages and disadvantages over each other. :wink:
An argument can be made for whether the kickdown function should be available in manual or not.
I personally think that disabling the kickdown in manual mode is completely un-necessary - you are loosing out on a very valid and useful advantage. :rolleyes:
ETTO though.
However, with a bit of experience you'll know where full throttle is and where the kickdown starts.
Exactly. A throttle pedal is not just an 'on/off' switch. It needs to be correctly modulated, and the kickdown 'button switch' can be very clearly discerned under your right foot. Anyone who can't 'feel' the kickdown switch really shouldn't be driving at all! :wink:
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It will drop down 3 gears almost instantly by tapping the paddle 3 times if the rpm allows. You certainly don't have to wait for each gear like you describe.
Well, it wasn't as instant as I'd have expected...probably a couple of seconds. Not what I was expecting based on driving other automated manuals (E-Gear, PDK, SMG etc)...I didn't imagine it, that's for sure.
An argument can be made for whether the kickdown function should be available in manual or not. However, with a bit of experience you'll know where full throttle is and where the kickdown starts.
I don't doubt that for one minute...what's surprising is that it's there at all when in manual.
But the kick down button is a manual function. It only operates when you hit it. You're talking as if the car decides when to drop down and it doesn't. It's no different than if you put your hand on a paddle and change down but you're using a foot instead.
Exactly - you hit the nail firmly and squarely on its head! :afro:
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Did no one else notice that you cant actually use the paddles when going round a corner??? :huh: :sad:
Huh, I can! :undecided:
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It's not great engineering
I hope that was a typo! Because any who thinks the DSG is NOT great engineering needs their head looking at!
two paddles and a centre lever really are more than adequate for manual control of the system. To include a fourth by keeping kickdown activated in manual mode is too much. They should keep it simple. After all a manual gearbox works just fine with two controls - clutch and gear lever.
But the DSG is NOT classed as a 'manual'. For the purposes of driving licence requirements, the DSG is simply classed as an 'automatic transmission'. It doesn't matter a jot on weather the innards are 'manual' based, epicyclic based, chain-drive based - or what ever. And because it is classed as an 'auto', then it must have a 'kickdown' function.
Trying to 'compare' the DSG manual mode with a genuine manual gearbox is grossly misleading. It would be like trying to compare David Cameron with John Prescott - both are politicians (just like a DSG and a manual are both 'transmissions') - but one is handsome, amenable, slim, polite, well-educated and takes care of his appearance. The other is a fat, ugly, obnoxious, agressive, rude, slob!
Plus I'm a lover of the satisfaction of driving a car well. Automated systems like ABS, ESP, DSG, ETC(!) might be safer, or quicker, or supposedly 'more efficient' than me, but I enjoy providing the input myself. Let a machine to do the work and you take away from the man.
I generally agree wholeheartedly with that. However, not everyone is 100% fit and healthy - which is why stuff like power steering, servo assisted brakes, and auto transmissions are available. And others don't have the necessary 'mechanical sympathy' to properly 'control' all the functions on a car.
Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...
Definately. Ask for a full day unacompanied test drive.
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http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/08/vw-and-audi-models-recalled-over-two.html :rolleyes: :lipsrsealed:
That isn't displaying for me, but they are Yanks - the peeps who sue when they kill their pet dogs in their microwaves - because the instruction book fails to specifially state that you shouldn't put a live pooch in a microwave! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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It's not great engineering
I hope that was a typo! Because any who thinks the DSG is NOT great engineering needs their head looking at!
I agree - it's by far the best bit of automotive engineering I've seen for a long time. It's the kickdown switch remaining active that I'm not sure about.
Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...
Definately. Ask for a full day unacompanied test drive.
I've arranged to borrow a Mk5 DSG for a week and have a proper play. Is this earlier version going to behave in the same way as the Mk6 with DSG?
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But the DSG is NOT classed as a 'manual'. For the purposes of driving licence requirements, the DSG is simply classed as an 'automatic transmission'. It doesn't matter a jot on weather the innards are 'manual' based, epicyclic based, chain-drive based - or what ever. And because it is classed as an 'auto', then it must have a 'kickdown' function.
Whilst I agree with all your points...but VW dealers making a big play of the manual mode being just like a manual is missleading.
Personally, I still believe that it's damn good as an auto, if an auto is what you want...but maintain that having a manual mode should remove kickdown. Manaul should mean manual...anything else isn't manual.
DSG in manual does not behave like an automated manual. If people accept that, then fine...but to pretend it does is plain daft.
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Well, since "manual" actually means "by hand", strictly speaking, and the DSG seems to have an extra function that's controlled by the foot, then technically you're right.... :rolleyes:
Rolfe.
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It's not great engineering
I hope that was a typo! Because any who thinks the DSG is NOT great engineering needs their head looking at!
I agree - it's by far the best bit of automotive engineering I've seen for a long time. It's the kickdown switch remaining active that I'm not sure about.
But it is very easy to 'feel' the kickdown switch. Even when I have my rigger boots on, I can still (just :embarassed:) feel it - so with 'normal' shoes, it shouldn't be a problem.
Having said all that, I've still not decided whether to have DSG or not! Perhaps a longer test drive is needed...
Definately. Ask for a full day unacompanied test drive.
I've arranged to borrow a Mk5 DSG for a week and have a proper play. Is this earlier version going to behave in the same way as the Mk6 with DSG?
The boxes are exactly the same. There are obviously improvements and tweaks in the software, such as Launch Control - but 'mechanically-wise', they are identical. And don't forget, they were also used in the Seat Cupra Challenge race series for two (or was it three :undecided:) seasons - without a single DSG failure. :wink:
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But the DSG is NOT classed as a 'manual'. For the purposes of driving licence requirements, the DSG is simply classed as an 'automatic transmission'. It doesn't matter a jot on weather the innards are 'manual' based, epicyclic based, chain-drive based - or what ever. And because it is classed as an 'auto', then it must have a 'kickdown' function.
Whilst I agree with all your points...but VW dealers making a big play of the manual mode being just like a manual is missleading.
Personally, I still believe that it's damn good as an auto, if an auto is what you want...but maintain that having a manual mode should remove kickdown. Manaul should mean manual...anything else isn't manual.
DSG in manual does not behave like an automated manual. If people accept that, then fine...but to pretend it does is plain daft.
I agree with all your comments, except the kickdown issue.
But if stealers are actually trying to state it behaves the same as a proper manual, then they want want suspending from the ceiling, by their gonads, with cheese wire! :angry: Stealers who misrepresent things really make me very angry - and I will then go out of my way to show them up!
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Well, since "manual" actually means "by hand", strictly speaking,
I wonder what would happen if I asked my Mrs to give me a 'manual job'? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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I wonder what would happen if I asked my Mrs to give me a 'manual job'? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Well, since "manual" actually means "by hand", strictly speaking,
I wonder what would happen if I asked my Mrs to give me a 'manual job'? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
I imagine it would be alot better than an "auto job" :tongue: :grin: :grin:
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for what its worth here's my two-penneth worth.
i was initially all set for a manual, however owing to a dealer c0ck up and a decent financial offer I ended up with a DSG.
- driving around in D is pretty relaxing though you have to learn not to press too hard as it will kick down. very easy (and tempting) to go too fast!
- sports mode holds the gears for ages, perhaps a little too long
- manual is very quick and works well doing what i want. agree is it less tactile an experience, but can't argue it is a lot smoother than my gearchanges and it'll never get lost amongst 6 gears which is what I've done before on other 6 geared cars.
- the "creep" at low speeds can be a little slow to engage. i notice this especially when parking. the car has rolled fwds or backwards a little when i was actually expecting the gearbox to hold the car on an incline. - this can be unsettling!
- the DSG does look better and better for impressing your mates. the gear stick looks nicer and feels nicer and flappy paddles always a nice touch. good weight to the paddles too.
will be interesting to try it on a track once I've run it in properly :)
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- driving around in D is pretty relaxing though you have to learn not to press too hard as it will kick down. very easy (and tempting) to go too fast!
But unless you are driving in rigger boots or 16 eyelet Doc Martins, the kickdown button switch is very easy to feel. So with 'normal' footwear, you must have very poor throttle control if you can't work out that you have just pressed the kickdown button. :rolleyes: OK, if you are new to the world of auto gearboxes, it might take a little getting used to, and needing to 'remap the brain' not to mash the pedal hard into the floor boards. :wink:
- sports mode holds the gears for ages, perhaps a little too long.
Erm, that is EXACTLY what sport mode is for (RTFM). :rolleyes: It is specifically designed to obtain maximum performance from the engine, therefore will delay changes until just below the red line. :nerd: So sport mode should NOT be used during the running in period. :wink:
- manual is very quick and works well doing what i want. agree is it less tactile an experience, but can't argue it is a lot smoother than my gearchanges and it'll never get lost amongst 6 gears which is what I've done before on other 6 geared cars.
You'll be in for a shock then, especially if you 'paddle down' and also hit the kickdown - that really confuses the DSG, and you end up with a couple of seconds of zero drive, even with full throttle - whilst the box tries to work out which cog to select. :smug:
- the "creep" at low speeds can be a little slow to engage. i notice this especially when parking. the car has rolled fwds or backwards a little when i was actually expecting the gearbox to hold the car on an incline. - this can be unsettling!
The initial engaging of 1st and reverse should never take more than about half a second. :nerd: Though if you are caught 'napping' say at traffic lights in neutral, and suddenly notice cars infront have disapeared on green, it does feel like an eternity to engage 1st and pick up the drive. :embarassed:
Re the 'rolling' forwards and backwards - NO manual gearbox (which the DSG is, albeit electronically controlled) with conventional gear 'cogs' is designed to stop rolling on inclines - that is what the handbrake and footbrake is for. VWs can be equiped with an optional 'hill hold control' - but that has nothing to do with the DSG - but is merely an electronic method of applying the rear brakes.
- the DSG does look better and better for impressing your mates. the gear stick looks nicer and feels nicer and flappy paddles always a nice touch. good weight to the paddles too.
Agreed. :afro:
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re: kick down. i wasn't hitting the kick down button. i know from my old bmw auto that there is a kick down button, but this is waaay down the throttle. just too sudden a press of the throttle seemed to make it drop a gear.
re: sports mode... yes yes ok dad! :tongue: i was testing it out thats all.... promise not to abuse it again :)
re: good tip re: paddle down and kick down, didn't realise that. can't imagine i would do it, but thanks anyway
re: creep... when at the traffic lights i keep it in gear (rightly or wrongly) I never leave in N. that way no getaway issues!
ah well. all a learning experience. and don't worry dad, i won't try launch control until i've read (and followed (sorta)) your running in instructions!! :tongue:
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re: kick down. i wasn't hitting the kick down button. i know from my old bmw auto that there is a kick down button, but this is waaay down the throttle. just too sudden a press of the throttle seemed to make it drop a gear.
Ahhhh, I see. Yes, all auto boxes will change down if they need to when increasing the throttle opening - but usually it is just one cog at a time. But with kickdown, it can go straight from 6th to 2nd in a blink of the eye! :cool: And I really don't get why some 'manual diehards' want to disable the kickdown in manual - kickdown, when used correctly, is the mutts nuts! :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
re: sports mode... yes yes ok dad! :tongue: i was testing it out thats all.... promise not to abuse it again :)
I bet you like licking the top of those PP3 9volt batteries too! :laugh: :laugh:
re: good tip re: paddle down and kick down, didn't realise that. can't imagine i would do it, but thanks anyway
Yeah, when you first do it, it tends to relax the anal sphincter! :shocked: :shocked:
re: creep... when at the traffic lights i keep it in gear (rightly or wrongly) I never leave in N. that way no getaway issues!
Nooooooooooooooooo. Leaving the DSG in gear whilst stationary for anything more than a few seconds is BAD. It will overheat your oil, and could well shorten the life of the clutch. Use the handbrake and neutral, please . . . pretty please. :nerd:
ah well. all a learning experience. and don't worry dad, i won't try launch control until i've read (and followed (sorta)) your running in instructions!! :tongue:
Righty ho. But I'll be watching you! :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Well I spent last week hairing around the English countryside in a borrowed Mk5 GTI so that I could get properly aquainted with the DSG. After 450 miles on all sorts of roads and traffic conditions, I've made my decision.
In between drives I referred to all your comments and guides to proper DSG use and explanations for how it can behave etc, which I found invaluable for getting the best out of the car in a relatively short time.
Just wanted to say thanks - this forum really is the best I have come across.
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...and your decision is?
Have I missed that bit?
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...and your decision is?
Have I missed that bit?
Oops. Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I chose the manual.
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...and your decision is?
Have I missed that bit?
Oops. Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I chose the manual.
:wink:
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...and your decision is?
Have I missed that bit?
Oops. Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I chose the manual.
the drivers choice :cool:
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the drivers choice :cool:
Excellent decision...
Let me guess...you sat down, looked at the pedals and lever, then remembered you are blessed with two working arms and legs? :evil:
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the drivers choice :cool:
Excellent decision...
Let me guess...you sat down, looked at the pedals and lever, then remembered you are blessed with two working arms and legs? :evil:
:grin:
and realised that some things are better left to a human being to decide rather than a computer!
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and realised that some things are better left to a human being to decide rather than a computer!
Oh, I hear you! :grin:
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the drivers choice :cool:
Excellent decision...
Let me guess...you sat down, looked at the pedals and lever, then remembered you are blessed with two working arms and legs? :evil:
:grin:
and realised that some things are better left to a human being to decide rather than a computer!
All of the above :grin: plus I found myself getting bored with flicking paddles and increasingly leaving it in Drive - eventually I could see myself leaving it there almost all of the time. Okay if you've grown up playing Gran Turismo I suppose.
I suspect that DSG-type technologies and the comming hybrid/electric future will mean the gear lever eventually becomes a thing of the past, so I might as well enjoy a manual 'box while I still can.
DSG would however be my choice in a low-revving diesel, where there is little point in being 'involved'.
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, so I might as well enjoy a manual 'box while I still can. :smiley:
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, so I might as well enjoy a manual 'box while I still can. :smiley:
Yup, I was trying to avoid saying the DSG had no 'involvement', but you can't get away from the fact! :tongue:
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It's all down to preference at the end of the day. DSG is more efficient and faster. Manual requires more involvement and skill.
I like DSG because after so many years of driving manuals my left knee hurts :smiley:
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DSG would however be my choice in a low-revving diesel, where there is little point in being 'involved'.
That's where I was surprised with the Petrol/DSG combo...as in the 170 TDIs it was really good...seems to suit the TDIs really well.
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My low revving R32 petrol works well too! Have to say i do prefer the DSG in my car than my mums GTI, probably more to do with the fact i dont really like turbo cars though.
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My low revving R32 petrol works well too!
As it happens I'm taking out an R32 DSG tomorrow - my local dealer seems pretty keen to offload it on me rather than take a deposit on the new R, but I reckon I might agree with you there - the DSG suits 'lazy' (in a good way) engines with big torque.
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My low revving R32 petrol works well too!
As it happens I'm taking out an R32 DSG tomorrow - my local dealer seems pretty keen to offload it on me rather than take a deposit on the new R, but I reckon I might agree with you there - the DSG suits 'lazy' (in a good way) engines with big torque.
Buy it! :lipsrsealed:
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My low revving R32 petrol works well too!
As it happens I'm taking out an R32 DSG tomorrow - my local dealer seems pretty keen to offload it on me rather than take a deposit on the new R, but I reckon I might agree with you there - the DSG suits 'lazy' (in a good way) engines with big torque.
Enjoy, be careful though. In S (or low gears) when you floor it you just go! No waiting for the turbo or feeding the power down and up to get grip! First time i drove it i hurt my back as i floored it round a corner expecting a little slide (as my fwd ctr used to do trying to get grip) and it ripped me to the side and shot off :laugh: i was sold instantly!
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I was following a 59 reg boxter s up fron bretagh holt roundabout.
He gunned it.
In a manual I would not have shifted fron 6th to 2nd.
The DSG did.
Result: A very glum looking boxter driver.
Unless you are really a racing driver the DSG is MUCH faster in real life.
Get one now before they all have one.
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I was following a 59 reg boxter s up fron bretagh holt roundabout.
He gunned it.
In a manual I would not have shifted fron 6th to 2nd.
The DSG did.
Result: A very glum looking boxter driver.
Unless you are really a racing driver the DSG is MUCH faster in real life.
Get one now before they all have one.
I suspect that it may well have been faster, dropping from 6th to 2nd...but with an aware driver who was obviously up for a 'play', what sort of pudding would have been in 6th to start with when deciding to play with a Boxster?
Not me...
So DSG may be faster...faster at spitting you into a hedge when it decides to change down right on the apex of a bend...
Faster at disconnecting drive when you confuse it by flapping at the paddles like a performing seal...
It maybe depends on the driver, but for me, I found progress was faster with the manual, as I knew where I was with ther car and was able to concentrate on driving rather than worrying about what the gearbox was going to decide to do next. Maybe you'd get used to it and after a period, maybe you'd adapt.
I didn't want to...I just want to get in and drive it. I'll adapt to the chassis and brakes and grip I have...but the gearbox should be a given.
To each their own, I guess.
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^^^ Exactly what kind of pleb would have been in 6th to start with?? :rolleyes:
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What are you trying to say? that only the dsg equipped GTI would be able to take on a boxter and win!!! load of pi55 the dsg box is only a couple of seconds faster than the manual (and that is not proven) and why the f57k would anyone be in 6th and thinking of challenging for a race. Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all, me? I am more than happy with my driver involving manual box.
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Most new really fast road cars can only be bought with DSG boxes in one form or other.
Like Gordon Brown, manual is on the way out.
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Most new really fast road cars can only be bought with DSG boxes in one form or other.
Like Gordon Brown, manual is on the way out.
i think we have established that dsg is quicker at changing gear. deciding which gear to be in.... erm no.
If being 1/10 sec faster at changing gears is your priority then you go ahead and enjoy. I am more than comfortable in my manual doing as real drivers once did. :rolleyes:
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Most new really fast road cars can only be bought with DSG boxes in one form or other.
Maybe so...but a fast car that's controlled by a computer to the point that any chump can get in it and drive it, holds little allure for me.
I like the drive to be an experience. If I want to feel isolated and let the computer do all the work, I'll 'drive' on the Playstation and save myself a fortune on depreciation, road tax and insurance.
Fast does not always = fun.
Fast = fast, but with such a nannying computer safety net that other than being a complete bell-end behind the wheel, it's impossible to crash it...so the car ends up dull in most respect other than outright speed - which you are then so isolated from the sensation of, that it's boring going fast too.
There is this facination nowadays on making everything easy...lazy almost. Hence too many people 'forget' how to be aware and drive like they are in a little bubble, with their car doing much of the work.
What a sad state...
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s3, if you really liked driving you wouldn't buy a VW Golf.
The steering is just not up to finesse.
Perhaps a Nissan GT-R or a Veyron?
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s3, if you really liked driving you wouldn't buy a VW Golf.
The steering is just not up to finesse.
Why not?
If you wanted something pratcical for the shopping run/school run, but something you can take out on the backroads for a bit of fun at weekends?
Or maybe you have something silly for weekends...and need something practical for during the week, but aren't ready to admit defeat and buy a Picasso just yet.
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but aren't ready to admit defeat and buy a Picasso just yet.
[/quote]
that will never happen :grin:
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s3, if you really liked driving you wouldn't buy a VW Golf.
The steering is just not up to finesse.
Why not?
If you wanted something pratcical for the shopping run/school run, but something you can take out on the backroads for a bit of fun at weekends?
Or maybe you have something silly for weekends...and need something practical for during the week, but aren't ready to admit defeat and buy a Picasso just yet.
I still cant get my head round this, and dont want to take it off topic but I have to ask. If a £23k Golf GTI without extras, is classed as shopping run, shool run and bit of fun car, then what are cars at £10k-£15k classed as ? (and dont say sh!t)
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that will never happen :grin:
Snap!
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I still cant get my head round this, and dont want to take it off topic but I have to ask. If a £23k Golf GTI without extras, is classed as shopping run, shool run and bit of fun car, then what are cars at £10k-£15k classed as ? (and dont say sh!t)
A Golf GTI at £28600 is still a shopping car to me...as that's what I'll do in it.
It's not in any way related to cost...it's what you buy it for.
You buy a Elise/Exige/911 etc for weekend fun (a sportscar)...
You buy a GTI to drive to work, take the kids to school and fetch the shopping.
You buy a people carrier when you have no desire to live any more.
Simples.
A £10-15k car is likely to be a smaller shopping car, older fancier car or less well specced shopping car.
Does it matter?
A Golf is a Golf...regardless of what you think the badge tells you...it's a Golf.
A car most people will use everyday to go to work in and fetch the shopping in.
Therefore, making it a shopping car.
Just a shopping car a step up from some of the sh!te out there.
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I still cant get my head round this, and dont want to take it off topic but I have to ask. If a £23k Golf GTI without extras, is classed as shopping run, shool run and bit of fun car, then what are cars at £10k-£15k classed as ? (and dont say sh!t)
A Golf GTI at £28600 is still a shopping car to me...as that's what I'll do in it.
It's not in any way related to cost...it's what you buy it for.
You buy a Elise/Exige/911 etc for weekend fun (a sportscar)...
You buy a GTI to drive to work, take the kids to school and fetch the shopping.
You buy a people carrier when you have no desire to live any more.
Simples.
A £10-15k car is likely to be a smaller shopping car, older fancier car or less well specced shopping car.
Does it matter?
A Golf is a Golf...regardless of what you think the badge tells you...it's a Golf.
A car most people will use everyday to go to work in and fetch the shopping in.
Therefore, making it a shopping car.
Just a shopping car a step up from some of the sh!te out there.
Well for me personally, I've never had a great amount of money growing up and only in the part 15 years or so I have been able to start living at a decent standard. I appreciate money more and the value of it. I'm proud to now be in a comfortable position to own a GTI, so when I see people say its 'Just a Golf' or 'Its a shopping run car' it f**kin riles me, but I think I get it now, there's some people out there that are spoon fed spoilt thingys and have probably never worked a day in their life, or are lucky enough to have a high paid pen pusher job that they have lost all track of reality and can discredit the GTI so easily. Just because you and others think thats what the car is, doesnt make it so, some people including myself have worked hard as f**k to get one. Count yourself lucky you have one and possibly more than one car, the snob nosed arrogance is oozing out of some people here its ridiculous, others are not as lucky and its an achievement owning one including myself.
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On Order : GTI mk6, 3dr Manual, Candy White, Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack. - Build Week 39
You missed DSG from the list. A man who really understood money would not have Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack.
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Well for me personally, I've never had a great amount of money growing up and only in the part 15 years or so I have been able to start living at a decent standard. I appreciate money more and the value of it. I'm proud to now be in a comfortable position to own a GTI, so when I see people say its 'Just a Golf' or 'Its a shopping run car' it f**kin riles me, but I think I get it now, there's some people out there that are spoon fed spoilt thingys and have probably never worked a day in their life, or are lucky enough to have a high paid pen pusher job that they have lost all track of reality and can discredit the GTI so easily. Just because you and others think thats what the car is, doesnt make it so, some people including myself have worked hard as f**k to get one. Count yourself lucky you have one and possibly more than one car, the snob nosed arrogance is oozing out of some people here its ridiculous, others are not as lucky and its an achievement owning one including myself.
Well since that was a thinly veiled attempt at having a dig at me...let me educate you:
I put a boiler suit on and get covered in crap every day working 12-15 hour shifts, for 2 weeks. Then I have some time off, and have done so for the last 20 years whilst some people on here will still sucking on mummy's nipples.
So, no pen pushing, no suit, no office, no spoon fed, no rich family (folks have a Golf 'shopping car' too..oh, and a Polo...so that probably makes them Royalty in your book) just a desire to get an apprenticeship, get a job working hard outside, often on nightshift, in February, in 80 Knot winds and driving snow...to enable me to buy nice cars - so from that point of view, I can hold whatever opinion I like, don't you think?
Or is that not allowed because you have decided something else without knowing anything about people who dare to hold a different view?
You could call my opinions arrogant, I call it saying how I see it.
I could accuse your opinion of delusions of grandeur.
The car is, after all, a Golf...it it not?
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I agree its only a car after all.. :undecided:
We all work hard im sure but lets keep to the topic at hand :wink:
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Well for me personally, I've never had a great amount of money growing up and only in the part 15 years or so I have been able to start living at a decent standard. I appreciate money more and the value of it. I'm proud to now be in a comfortable position to own a GTI, so when I see people say its 'Just a Golf' or 'Its a shopping run car' it f**kin riles me, but I think I get it now, there's some people out there that are spoon fed spoilt thingys and have probably never worked a day in their life, or are lucky enough to have a high paid pen pusher job that they have lost all track of reality and can discredit the GTI so easily. Just because you and others think thats what the car is, doesnt make it so, some people including myself have worked hard as f**k to get one. Count yourself lucky you have one and possibly more than one car, the snob nosed arrogance is oozing out of some people here its ridiculous, others are not as lucky and its an achievement owning one including myself.
Well since that was a thinly veiled attempt at having a dig at me...let me educate you:
I put a boiler suit on and get covered in crap every day working 12-15 hour shifts, for 2 weeks. Then I have some time off, and have done so for the last 20 years whilst some people on here will still sucking on mummy's nipples.
So, no pen pushing, no suit, no office, no spoon fed, no rich family (folks have a Golf 'shopping car' too..oh, and a Polo...so that probably makes them Royalty in your book) just a desire to get an apprenticeship, get a job working hard outside, often on nightshift, in February, in 80 Knot winds and driving snow...to enable me to buy nice cars - so from that point of view, I can hold whatever opinion I like, don't you think?
Or is that not allowed because you have decided something else without knowing anything about people who dare to hold a different view?
You could call my opinions arrogant, I call it saying how I see it.
I could accuse your opinion of delusions of grandeur.
The car is, after all, a Golf...it it not?
Sounds like Oil rig work or other off shore work going by those shifts, isnt that something like 2 weeks on and countless weeks off ? I'd love to work 3 months out of a year.
Ahh so now your buying nice cars. That is more of a respectful way of describing it, rather than a f**kin shopping cart to take to Sainsburys.
If it was a golf, then the GTI wouldnt exist, so no, its not a Golf.
I surely cant be the only one that has these views ?
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I still cant get my head round this, and dont want to take it off topic but I have to ask. If a £23k Golf GTI without extras, is classed as shopping run, shool run and bit of fun car, then what are cars at £10k-£15k classed as ? (and dont say sh!t)
You buy a people carrier when you have no desire to live any more.
Therefore, making it a shopping car.
first point - correct. anyone who buys a picasso etc is a loser who is happy with his lot in life, ie driving at 60mph and being overtaken by micras.
second point - utter sh1te. a 28k car is not a shopping car. a 1.6 golf is a shopping car. a gti is not. i certainly don't do the shopping in mine, that's the missus job :cool: but then she does the shopping in her 3.0 a4 so does that make that a shopping car too? :rolleyes:
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Sounds like Oil rig work or other off shore work going by those shifts, isnt that something like 2 weeks on and countless weeks off ? I'd love to work 3 months out of a year.
Correct. Offshore Ops Tech, on an oil platform.
No office, no rich family...no inheritance...just hard work.
2 weeks on, 3 off, if you want to be pedantic. Or 140 days a year. :wink:
However, lets not detract from the fact that it'sa job and I have to buy my cars just like the next man...so surely my opinions are as valid as the next man's?
Ahh so now your buying nice cars. That is more of a respectful way of describing it, rather than a f**kin shopping cart to take to Sainsburys.
Sainsbury's? Now who has money?
Adsa or Tescos for me.
The Golf GTI is a nice car, yeah.
As current cars go...a very nice one.
Just like my previous two were, I'll imagine.
Not a sportscar, not a Supercar...but a bloody nice car...to use everyday, and do everyday jobs in, like fetch the shopping.
If it was a golf, then the GTI wouldnt exist, so no, its not a Golf.
I'm sorry...I'm obviously missing the point here...isn't the GTI a trim level of the Golf range.
So it's a Golf?
...and since it'll be my money buying one, and me driving one, fetching my shopping in it...it'll be my shopping car.
Why does that offend you so much?
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second point - utter sh1te. a 28k car is not a shopping car. a 1.6 golf is a shopping car. a gti is not. i certainly don't do the shopping in mine, that's the missus job :cool:
Why is that so, in your mind?
If the car you are buying is to be used to scoot about, shopping, visiting, doing the school run etc...why is it not a shopping car?
That's what it'll get used for...therefore that's what it is.
What exaclty does a GTI morph into over and above a 1.6 Golf, when GTI badges are fitted?
she does the shopping in her 3.0 a4 so does that make that a shopping car too?
If you asked her, I'd say it would.
Or would you take exception to her saying that?
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What does all this have to do with a 'Manual or DSG' thread...? :tongue:
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second point - utter sh1te. a 28k car is not a shopping car. a 1.6 golf is a shopping car. a gti is not. i certainly don't do the shopping in mine, that's the missus job :cool:
Why is that so, in your mind?
If the car you are buying is to be used to scoot about, shopping, visiting, doing the school run etc...why is it not a shopping car?
That's what it'll get used for...therefore that's what it is.
What exaclty does a GTI morph into over and above a 1.6 Golf, when GTI badges are fitted?
she does the shopping in her 3.0 a4 so does that make that a shopping car too?
If you asked her, I'd say it would.
Or would you take exception to her saying that?
because by saying that its a shopping car implys that the car has been bought primarily to do the shopping. which neither of our cars are. that's one of its many uses. my gti should therefore be a 'going to work car' by your reasoning because that's where i'm going the majority of the time. if i thought of it like that why would i spend 28k instead of buying a 10k piece of sh1t. i bet you're the kind of person that thinks that a car is to get you from A to B?! :wink:
and a gti is different in so many ways to a 1.6, not just the badge :rolleyes:
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What does all this have to do with a 'Manual or DSG' thread...? :tongue:
absolutely nothing :grin:
and even though there is a heated discussion about 'shopping cars' its all ready been decided that a manual is best :grin:
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What does all this have to do with a 'Manual or DSG' thread...? :tongue:
absolutely nothing :grin:
and even though there is a heated discussion about 'shopping cars' its all ready been decided that a manual is best :grin:
+1 :wink:
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because by saying that its a shopping car implys that the car has been bought primarily to do the shopping. which neither of our cars are.
...but mine has. Hence, shopping car.
that's one of its many uses. my gti should therefore be a 'going to work car' by your reasoning because that's where i'm going the majority of the time.
if i thought of it like that why would i spend 28k instead of buying a 10k piece of sh1t.
Call it what you like.
spend what you like.
I'll not loose sleep over it.
i bet you're the kind of person that thinks that a car is to get you from A to B?! :wink:
You couldn't be further from the truth...
A look at my car history will tell you that.
But, you believe what you want.
and a gti is different in so many ways to a 1.6, not just the badge :rolleyes:
But it's still a Golf isn't it?
Anyway, sorry for going off topic.
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What does all this have to do with a 'Manual or DSG' thread...? :tongue:
absolutely nothing :grin:
and even though there is a heated discussion about 'shopping cars' its all ready been decided that a manual is best :grin:
+1 :wink:
Correct. Be it for fetching the shopping or going to work...manual it is.
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...but mine has. Hence, shopping car.
i believe you implied that all gti's were shopping cars. if yours is for that then fine. but for others its not (pretty much everyone else). a gti is not a shopping car. your gti is a shopping car.
glad that's cleared up -excellent discussion though, you can't beat a heated debate!! :laugh:
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On Order : GTI mk6, 3dr Manual, Candy White, Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack. - Build Week 39
You missed DSG from the list. A man who really understood money would not have Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack.
I'f I wanted a Taxi I'd hail one for a few quid, I'm not in the habit of spending £1500 for one.
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On Order : GTI mk6, 3dr Manual, Candy White, Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack. - Build Week 39
You missed DSG from the list. A man who really understood money would not have Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack.
I'f I wanted a Taxi I'd hail one for a few quid, I'm not in the habit of spending £1500 for one.
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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i believe you implied that all gti's were shopping cars. if yours is for that then fine. but for others its not (pretty much everyone else). a gti is not a shopping car. your gti is a shopping car.
I'll settle for that.
glad that's cleared up -excellent discussion though, you can't beat a heated debate!! :laugh:
Here-here! :grin:
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that was fun lol :grin:
(i need to get out more!!)
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that was fun lol :grin:
(i need to get out more!!)
If you go out, put a coat on...it's getting cold.
you may even want to consider some 'winter tyres'? :smug:
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On Order : GTI mk6, 3dr Manual, Candy White, Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack. - Build Week 39
You missed DSG from the list. A man who really understood money would not have Full Leather, Xenons, ACC, 18", RCD510 + Dynaudio, DAB Radio, Winter Pack, Luxury Pack.
I'f I wanted a Taxi I'd hail one for a few quid, I'm not in the habit of spending £1500 for one.
I thought that's why you ordered a white car
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that was fun lol :grin:
(i need to get out more!!)
If you go out, put a coat on...it's getting cold.
you may even want to consider some 'winter tyres'? :smug:
ha ha ha!
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I'f I wanted a Taxi I'd hail one for a few quid, I'm not in the habit of spending £1500 for one.
:laugh:
you may even want to consider some 'winter tyres'? :smug:
Stay on topic :lipsrsealed: :tongue:
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I still cant get my head round this, and dont want to take it off topic but I have to ask. If a £23k Golf GTI without extras, is classed as shopping run, shool run and bit of fun car, then what are cars at £10k-£15k classed as ? (and dont say sh!t)
A Golf GTI at £28600 is still a shopping car to me...as that's what I'll do in it.
It's not in any way related to cost...it's what you buy it for.
You buy a Elise/Exige/911 etc for weekend fun (a sportscar)...
You buy a GTI to drive to work, take the kids to school and fetch the shopping.
You buy a people carrier when you have no desire to live any more.
Simples.
A £10-15k car is likely to be a smaller shopping car, older fancier car or less well specced shopping car.
Does it matter?
A Golf is a Golf...regardless of what you think the badge tells you...it's a Golf.
A car most people will use everyday to go to work in and fetch the shopping in.
Therefore, making it a shopping car.
Just a shopping car a step up from some of the sh!te out there.
Well for me personally, I've never had a great amount of money growing up and only in the part 15 years or so I have been able to start living at a decent standard. I appreciate money more and the value of it. I'm proud to now be in a comfortable position to own a GTI, so when I see people say its 'Just a Golf' or 'Its a shopping run car' it f**kin riles me, but I think I get it now, there's some people out there that are spoon fed spoilt thingys and have probably never worked a day in their life, or are lucky enough to have a high paid pen pusher job that they have lost all track of reality and can discredit the GTI so easily. Just because you and others think thats what the car is, doesnt make it so, some people including myself have worked hard as f**k to get one. Count yourself lucky you have one and possibly more than one car, the snob nosed arrogance is oozing out of some people here its ridiculous, others are not as lucky and its an achievement owning one including myself.
Well said I a in total agreement with you.
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So, to summarise 27 pages of the great manual vs DSG battle: each to their own?
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Did I miss anything? :grin:
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I would prolly get my next GTI or the R in DSG. I will be using the current GTI for at least 2 years and when I finish my stint in the Netherlands I would prolly sell it. I dont particularly like the R styling but lets see what the MKVII will look like by then :)
HM
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Had my R32 DSG drive and hey, what a fantastic car. The aural delight of having six cylinders really makes a difference to the enjoyment of driving. The DSG down-changes sound brilliant. And the DSG seemed much better suited to it than in the GTI. But what's with the hair-trigger throttle response? When I pulled out of our local Sainsbury's I actually startled myself by how suddenly the thing accelerated! I guess that'll be the 4WD traction too.
After a quick blast round my local 'test route', which incidentally passes both a Tesco and an Asda, I decided that I would have enjoyed myself more driving one with a manual gearbox.
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you will find that with the R32. The accelerator is literally like a go faster pedal, and will pull from virtually standstill in any gear. With the GTI its almost like its asking you if you would like to go faster, then responding.
Like a posted over on the MK5 board where I had a DSG for a month, it felt like all or nothing, and the power was a little difficult to control with the throttle alone. Manual allows you to just tootle along where necessary... i once drove from work to home in nothing but 6th gear just for a laugh :grin:
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Yeah, but although I've chosen between manual and DSG, now I don't know whether to buy an R32 or an R.
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Yeah, but although I've chosen between manual and DSG, now I don't know whether to buy an R32 or an R.
Definately the R32!!! It has 6 cylinders!!! But the R is more economical, looks better, likely better built, LED rear lamps... AIYOH!! Let me sit down and catch my breath... Too much thinking after a meal is not good...
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Yeah, but although I've chosen between manual and DSG, now I don't know whether to buy an R32 or an R.
Get the R32 and save yourself 10k. when you grow a little tired of it... turbo it and make the R look like its going backwards everytime you see one :laugh:
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Golf R,
DSG
(as advised by head of VW Individual, Reiner Mangold... see Car Nov. for details).
Manual and clutch is for men between 28 and 45, just maturing and loving their new found sense of worth.
Utter nuts, but you have to be over 45 or under 28 to see it.
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What does that even mean??
You will chose dsg because you spend alot of time in traffic or your simply not wanting to enjoy your driving as much as a manual driver. Simples.
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What does that even mean??
You will chose dsg because you spend alot of time in traffic or your simply not wanting to enjoy your driving as much as a manual driver. Simples.
I think if I lived in a big city and did most of my driving sitting in urban traffic, I'd probably have looked at DSG with a different set of requirements...and probably liked it better. Can't argue with how it works in traffic - nice and relaxed.
I wonder what the split is, Manual vs DSG, urban vs rural drivers?
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I actually found it quite jerky in stop start traffic.. quite easy to confuse it. Plus reversing into my garage was a chore to say the least. but no doubt it slow moving traffic it would be a god send.
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sounds like you should start a thread on it! i am manual, and i do a mixture of town (solid traffic) and rural roads (put one's foot down time).
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sounds like you should start a thread on it! i am manual, and i do a mixture of town (solid traffic) and rural roads (put one's foot down time).
Not another thread!
There will be civil unrest if we do that (again).
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For the love of god, don't start anothe thread! However I live out in the sticks but commute into the city and have DSG...great for when I can't be bothered to change gears when I'm still half asleep in the mornings, and great for spirited driving in manual mode on the way home
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Maybe we can finally put this issue to bed!! this is a quote from the magazine "Volkswagen Driver" issue 113 October 2009. Quote "Not so long ago, the new DSG semi-auto was lauded as 'the thing to have', providing seamless automatic shifting, with manual override when required, and it was even claimed to produce improved performance and fuel economy with the conventional manual transmission.
While there are undoubtedly some advantages for the average driver in normal road use, none of our definitive performance tests were ever able to substantiate those claims for the DSG. It's significant that the official figures now sing a slightly different tune, giving a fractionally higher top speed for the manual, identical values for 0-60 time and now actually showing slightly inferior figures for fuel economy and emissions with the DSG. Its only advantage seems to be that it rates as slightly quieter, by one decibel". unquote. As before it is down to personal taste as is everything in life!!! lol
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Well put GW!! we have a winner :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
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Well put GW!! we have a winner :lipsrsealed: :laugh:
Hurah!
Down with lies and un-truths...long live the manual transmission! :tongue:
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Although I do claim to have highlighted these figures somewhere near the start of this thread :grin:
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To further the argument for manual (and i drive a DSG btw), I was reading EVO mag, 100 greatest drivers cars of all time - all entirely subjective - but one telling line in it was that none of the top 10 had DSG/ PDK/ SMG or similar....
Personally I think its true. For driver involvement you can't beat a manual.
However for those of us who have other needs such as traffic driving, partners who don't like manual.... DSG is a good alternative.
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I had a DSG R32, swapped to much more fun and mental ASTRA VXR, and will soon be getting a DSG MK6 GTI
Having worked my way through the 29 pages of this thread, I would agree with most of what everybody says, but I finally decided that I just can't be arsed to change gears anymore!
Decision helped by new baby in the back seat, causing enough of a distraction, can do with out worrying about gears too, and the fact that i am a lazy $hite!
I wouldn't bother if it was a standard auto box (had a citroen auto on hols, seemed to take a week in between changes) but I know the DSG is good enough to keep up with my boy racer moments when I have them, or my road rage moments when I have them, or to sit out the traffic jams for me, when am fed up of 1st 2nd 1st 2nd 1st etc.
Just my two pennorth, but you can't not buy something because it might break outside of warranty!
Each to his/ her own.
I wish VW had thrown in a stop/ start button, tight ba$tards.
Cheers all.
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Just my two pennorth, but you can't not buy something because it might break outside of warranty!
I agree. Had I liked the DSG, I would happily have paid the premuim for it, and wouldn't have given it another thought...if it breaks, it breaks.
I'm sure I'll manage to wreck the 2nd the 3rd synchro on the manual anyway...I usually do on VAG gearboxes. Oh well. Life's too short to worry about it.
I wish VW had thrown in a stop/ start button, tight ba$tards.
For me, not so much!
A key works just fine...there is something satisfying about the precision of twisting a key, rather than operating a microswitch!
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Maybe we can finally put this issue to bed!!
LOL ... No !! :evil:
5th Gear Test of Audi TT DSG vs Manual around a track :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROqVLz4z8M
Despite being 20kg heavier than the manual, the DSG was quicker :drool: :drool: : :grin:
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Hello ladies and gentlemen.
I've found this thread an eye-opener - I never realised that the DSG had this 'kickdown' feature activated, even in manual mode. Like some other posters, I too had the idea that the manual mode was indeed 'manual' in that you just selected the gear you wanted (with consideration that you 'cannot' go into 2nd gear at 140mph ahem) and it would just stick in that gear.
In terms of my own personal experience, sometime last year I was lucky enough to briefly test drive a DSG equipped Golf GTI Mk5. I thought this is a brilliant driving experience! (actually in retrospect perhaps that might have been because that car had the most powerful engine I had ever driven... :undecided: ) I had driven an automatic before but the DSG I thought and still think is an amazing piece of equipment. When I first drove it I thought "This is EXACTLY like Gran Turismo on the PlayStation!" To think that changing gear with pressing one little button instead of stomping on a pedal and having to move my hand from the wheel and wiggle a stick around, just unreal.
After reading this thread, as I've mentioned I've learned this kickdown is on even in manual mode. Personally I think this would put me off, even if I could feel in the right pedal where kickdown would be activated, the natural instinct would be to floor it if I wanted to go fast. I'm guessing many of you have played Gran Turismo. I play it with 'manual' gears shifting down and up with L2 + R2 buttons, and it would pee me off no end if the car started to change gears by itself. I'm guessing it would be something I would be able to adapt to if I did go for a DSG car, but still nontheless it seems to be a bit of a learning curve, and it means if somebody else were to drive the car, they would have to 'learn' too.
Plus another thing that I believe has not mentioned so far, is if you were wanting to do mad close-quarters Russ Swift style manoeuvres such as doughnuts, J-turns and whatever else you call these things, I understand you would need the direct control of a manual to achieve this. I've never been mad (or rich) enough to try this on my own car, but this is the kinda stuff I mean -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjDJwEfhmJo
I've also been lucky enough to test drive a manual Mk6, and I echo what has been said before that if feels like a rifle bolt. Well, actually I can only imagine what that would feel like as I've never fired a gun, but the stick did feel firm but smooth when it shifted in, and the clutch pedal felt surprisingly light. Considering the level of power a GTI has, I think it's a very usable car for mere mortals like myself with arms only ever used to moving a USB mouse all day long...
For me, considering the stage where I am in my life (i.e. still young(ish) and no arthritis in the legs, and increased cost of DSG) I would choose a manual. Also picking manual will mean that if at some point I ever get fed up of a GTI, I could just get another car and not forget how to drive a manual and have to 'learn' to change gears again.
As for the slightly off-topic thing about 'shopping cars', well everybody has their own opinion of that. My own opinion is that the GTI is simply a very nice car. One of the things that stand out for me with the GTI is simply the versatility of it. Like lots of things in life I like things that are versatile. As a car, the GTI ticks lots and lots of boxes. It looks great, it drives great. I could drive to work in it, I could give my mates a lift in it, in 5 door guise my grandparents shouldn't have too much trouble getting in (although it's likely I should probably at least seen to be driving sensibly as a) I don't wanna kill my grandma b) don't want their teeth to fall out), it's got bootspace for luggage on the airport run. If I pulled up outside the house of a girl I was dating, there is half a chance she won't look at me funny and tell me to p155 0FF. And another point, if equipped with DSG, I can pretend I'm Lewis Hamilton and change gears with buttons on the steering wheel.
So, erm there is my 2 and a half pence on manual vs DSG. DSG is a great system, but manual will do fine.
Thank you for reading.
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The next gen of cars are going hybrid.
You can't have manual with those.
So long unloved clutch pedal.
Hello proper driving with hands on the steering wheel, not faffing around like a cyclist and his cogs.
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The next gen of cars are going hybrid.
You can't have manual with those.
So long unloved clutch pedal.
Hello proper driving with hands on the steering wheel, not faffing around like a cyclist and his cogs.
Eh? When was the last time a cyclist had to take his hands off to change gear?
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Lance still uses down tube mounted shifters when he's in the mountains...hands off bars to activate. The rest of us are in the 21st Century with shifters in the brake levers :smug:
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Lance still uses down tube mounted shifters when he's in the mountains...hands off bars to activate. The rest of us are in the 21st Century with shifters in the brake levers :smug:
That was a few years ago to get the weight down on his climbing bikes, now all riders have bikes that are at the UCI minimum weight limit.
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Handlebar shifters = DSG paddles
Down tube levers = gear lever
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Handlebar shifters = DSG paddles
Down tube levers = gear lever
:grin: Good analogy! I need a mechatronics unit on my bike to change gear for me, because it's too much effort to twist the hand grip.
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:grin: Good analogy! I need a mechatronics unit on my bike to change gear for me, because it's too much effort to twist the hand grip.
You need this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXVhm3xakq0
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:grin: Good analogy! I need a mechatronics unit on my bike to change gear for me, because it's too much effort to twist the hand grip.
You need this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXVhm3xakq0
Yeah, impressive - but will it be as involving??! :laugh:
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At the risk of hijacking the thread...
Another technology that never went away but has been relegated to occasional use is the down tube road shifter. We have all seen Lance, Marco, and many other Tour de France riders equipping their bikes with a front down tube shifter for climbing stages. Why? For front shifting nothing beats either a down tube or thumb shifter. Friction is the way to go for precise adjustment and no chain rub. It is also the way to go if you want to lighten up your already light road bike, a must for gaining an edge on the competition.
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My Jack Taylor had down tube shifters.
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My Jack Taylor had down tube shifters.
Can you climb hills on it like Lance Armstrong?
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At the risk of hijacking the thread...
Another technology that never went away but has been relegated to occasional use is the down tube road shifter. We have all seen Lance, Marco, and many other Tour de France riders equipping their bikes with a front down tube shifter for climbing stages. Why? For front shifting nothing beats either a down tube or thumb shifter. Friction is the way to go for precise adjustment and no chain rub. It is also the way to go if you want to lighten up your already light road bike, a must for gaining an edge on the competition.
Don't know where you got that from but it must be well old, Pantani snuffed it years ago. Manufacturers have built more 'trimming' into front shifting on road bikes to alleviate cable rub. D12 is the nuts though and nothing like DSG as you still decide when to shift up and down, it just does it quicker and smoother than cable operated.
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Well for me personally, I've never had a great amount of money growing up and only in the part 15 years or so I have been able to start living at a decent standard. I appreciate money more and the value of it. I'm proud to now be in a comfortable position to own a GTI, so when I see people say its 'Just a Golf' or 'Its a shopping run car' it f**kin riles me, but I think I get it now, there's some people out there that are spoon fed spoilt thingys and have probably never worked a day in their life, or are lucky enough to have a high paid pen pusher job that they have lost all track of reality and can discredit the GTI so easily. Just because you and others think thats what the car is, doesnt make it so, some people including myself have worked hard as f**k to get one. Count yourself lucky you have one and possibly more than one car, the snob nosed arrogance is oozing out of some people here its ridiculous, others are not as lucky and its an achievement owning one including myself.
Actually, what he said. And I've got three university degrees and vets are supposed to be among the higher earners in the population. And I'm not actually complaining about my income, but I'm chuffed to bits to be able to own a Golf GTi. I'm especially pleased that it will go fetch the cat food and the milk, and ferry the entire car-pool to choir practice, and also go like a bat out of hell when I want it to.
The idea of one person owning more than one car does my head in. The Golf GTi is all the car I want, and that's exactly the point.
Rolfe.
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So, to summarise 27 pages of the great manual vs DSG battle: each to their own?
I think that's about it!
I hear all the remonstrations from the manual brigade, and I've driven manual cars for nearly 40 years. I'm just getting used to the DSG and I haven't got the hang of the kickdown yet (I don't feel this "stop" before the kickdown kicks in, but no doubt I'll get there), but the sheer versatility of the DSG is impressive.
I've decided I love it. Each to his own though, and I don't see any point in slagging off those of the opposite persuasion.
Rolfe.
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So, to summarise 27 pages of the great manual vs DSG battle: each to their own?
I think that's about it!
I hear all the remonstrations from the manual brigade, and I've driven manual cars for nearly 40 years. I'm just getting used to the DSG and I haven't got the hang of the kickdown yet (I don't feel this "stop" before the kickdown kicks in, but no doubt I'll get there), but the sheer versatility of the DSG is impressive.
I've decided I love it. Each to his own though, and I don't see any point in slagging off those of the opposite persuasion.
Rolfe.
Of course you do.
One of the most effective slagging posts ever.
PS I raise your three degrees with a Ph.D.
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(I don't feel this "stop" before the kickdown kicks in, but no doubt I'll get there)
that's because in D mode it will change down itself for you if the engine is struggling or if you give it a bit more sudden oomph on the throttle.
tho today i tried driving around in manual mode, pootling along in 6th at 40mph, pressed the pedal hard, though not to the kick down, and sure enough it does stay in 6th. if i go for kick down, it'll drop straight into 2nd in an instant. if i was in D and in 6th, then a firm prod on the throttle (not to kick down) and it'll drop to 4th.
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[quote author=Hairy Porter link=topic=122285.msg1159053#msg1159053 date=1253573
Of course you do.
One of the most effective slagging posts ever.
PS I raise your three degrees with a Ph.D.
[/quote]
One of mine's a PhD s well. :tongue:
Rolfe.
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The idea of one person owning more than one car does my head in. The Golf GTi is all the car I want, and that's exactly the point.
Why does the idea of owning more than one car do your head in?
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The idea of one person owning more than one car does my head in. The Golf GTi is all the car I want, and that's exactly the point.
Why does the idea of owning more than one car do your head in?
Exactly?? Give me the means and I would own a fleet of cars on for each day of the year if I could!!
variety is the spice of life... or are you a mashed potato only kinda girl?? :tongue:
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Multiple tax, insurance, MOTs, maintenance hassles, garage space needed....
I can only drive one at a time, and they don't get tired like horses do. I like the Golf because it will do everything from getting the groceries through ferrying aged parent and getting me to work to going like a bat out of hell.
Rolfe.
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Multiple tax, insurance, MOTs, maintenance hassles, garage space needed....
...and?
As long as they are insured, MOTd, taxed and legal...what's the problem?
Variety is the spice of life!
I can only drive one at a time, and they don't get tired like horses do. I like the Golf because it will do everything from getting the groceries through ferrying aged parent and getting me to work to going like a bat out of hell.
I agree...but if other people want to have a 'fleet' of cars...good on 'em, I say.
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Multiple tax, insurance, MOTs, maintenance hassles, garage space needed....
...and?
As long as they are insured, MOTd, taxed and legal...what's the problem?
Variety is the spice of life!
I can only drive one at a time, and they don't get tired like horses do. I like the Golf because it will do everything from getting the groceries through ferrying aged parent and getting me to work to going like a bat out of hell.
I agree...but if other people want to have a 'fleet' of cars...good on 'em, I say.
The problem? Money! I have lots of other things I'd rather spend it on!
Sure, it's a free country. It still does my head in!
Rolfe.
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Back on topic, I'm not used to the DSG yet, but I know I'm going to like it.
Getting in the right gearstick position still isn't automatic (no pun intended!). I need to think, and when I'm slowing to corner my hand goes automatically to the stick. I also accidentally shove it into manual sometimes just as I'm preparing to drive off, because my hand thinks that's the direction of first gear.
I don't know the difference between neutral and park.
I'm occasionally disconcerted by a gear-change I wasn't expecting, but I imagine I'll soon get used to that. It's never gone into a gear I didn't actually want. I noticed when driving to work this morning (first time ever) that leaving Carlops, accelerating out of the 30mph zone and travelling uphill, it changed down to 5th. I'd probably have left the Peugeot in 6th there, because it pulled well enough, but 5th is a better gear for that bit of road.
I'm not sure if I've met the kick-down yet or not. I sort of suspect not, because I haven't noticed any "stop" on the accelerator pedal travel. I think I've just noticed the ordinary change-down that will happen if you ask for more power to pull out for overtaking. I think I may have to find a nice quiet stretch of motorway (preferably with no cop cars) to try out the kick-down.
The tiptronic and manual modes are very easy to utilise, though I haven't given them much of an airing yet.
Overall, one very very happy camper here.
Rolfe.
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Rolfe you do make me laugh :grin: :grin: :grin:
You have only managed to make it kick down one gear??How long have you had the car?? :laugh:
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Five days? And it didn't turn a wheel yesterday.
I've kicked down more than one gear though. I'm just not sure if it was the "kickdown" function TT has been going on about or not though. It could just have been a normal change-down as I pulled out to overtake.
Rolfe.
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Five days? And it didn't turn a wheel yesterday.
I've kicked down more than one gear though. I'm just not sure if it was the "kickdown" function TT has been going on about or not though. It could just have been a normal change-down as I pulled out to overtake.
Rolfe.
Put some miles on the clock.... get it warm then thrash its a$$ :evil: :evil:
Its what the GTI is all about!!
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Five days? And it didn't turn a wheel yesterday.
I've kicked down more than one gear though. I'm just not sure if it was the "kickdown" function TT has been going on about or not though. It could just have been a normal change-down as I pulled out to overtake.
Rolfe.
Put some miles on the clock.... get it warm then thrash its a$$ :evil: :evil:
Its what the GTI is all about!!
+1 :laugh:
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I've just discovered that our choir is supposed to be singing in St Machar's Cathedral in Aberdeen on 4th October. Now that should be a fun drive. I just need to put out a call for non-nervous passengers!
Honestly, went to pick up a neighbour to go to choir practice on Sunday, and she took one look at the new car and said "that's more like it!". Which is all very well. But by the time I'd overtaken a Ford Ka pootling along at about 45, I was getting lectures about not speeding.
I'm quite happy to take up to 3 passengers to Aberdeen, but they'd better get used to the idea we won't be hanging around.
So long as I can stop reading the instruction manual long enough to get the RCD 310 playing the Monteverdi Vespers and learn the bloody music.
Rolfe.
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Rolfe, you better figure out the difference between neutral and park BEFORE you leave it on a hill with nothing but the handbrake stopping it from going for a wander? :grin:
In park it will be parked without the ability to roll anywhere, which in neutral it could.
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Ah, so it's equivalent to leaving a manual in the appropriate gear for parking on an incline?
Gotcha.
Rolfe.
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the drivers choice :cool:
Excellent decision...
Let me guess...you sat down, looked at the pedals and lever, then remembered you are blessed with two working arms and legs? :evil:
And so are Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Fernando Alonso, et al - but they only have two pedals (one stop and one go), and change gear with flappy paddles! :tongue:
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I was following a 59 reg boxter s up fron bretagh holt roundabout.
He gunned it.
In a manual I would not have shifted fron 6th to 2nd.
The DSG did.
Result: A very glum looking boxter driver.
Unless you are really a racing driver the DSG is MUCH faster in real life.
Get one now before they all have one.
I suspect that it may well have been faster, dropping from 6th to 2nd...but with an aware driver who was obviously up for a 'play', what sort of pudding would have been in 6th to start with when deciding to play with a Boxster?
Not me...
You just don't get it! With a DSG, you CAN be happily pootling along in 6th, and should your mood instantly change, floor the throttle, and the DSG WILL change to 2nd far quicker than any gifted manual driver.
So DSG may be faster...faster at spitting you into a hedge when it decides to change down right on the apex of a bend...
Wrong again, the DSG doesn't work like that, UNLESS you hit the kickdown.
Faster at disconnecting drive when you confuse it by flapping at the paddles like a performing seal...
That may be true, but you only usually do that trick once! :wink:
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
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I don't know the difference between neutral and park.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox#Operation :wink: :wink:
I'm not sure if I've met the kick-down yet or not. I sort of suspect not, because I haven't noticed any "stop" on the accelerator pedal travel. I think I've just noticed the ordinary change-down that will happen if you ask for more power to pull out for overtaking. I think I may have to find a nice quiet stretch of motorway (preferably with no cop cars) to try out the kick-down.
The 'best' way to try out the kickdown > find yourself a quiet, straight, dry bit of road > drive along at about 35mph, with the stick across into the 'manual' position, and in 6th gear > now slowly press the accelerator pedal > initially, the car will just accelerate in 6th gear. Now back off to about 35mph, but this time, press the accelerator pedal all the way to the floor > you will feel a little 'click' at the bottom of the travel > the box will probably change from 6th to 2nd, and the car will accelerate like a scolded cat! :nerd: Oh, ENJOY. :afro:
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So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG?
Now there's a question. Anyone feel up to answering that one?
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
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So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG?
Now there's a question. Anyone feel up to answering that one?
The answer to that specific question is very easy! :wink:
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask. If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
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All the modern ones with any money behind them use a DSG box.
The little few cars a year boys struggle on with clutches and sticks.
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All the modern ones with any money behind them use a DSG box.
The little few cars a year boys struggle on with clutches and sticks.
Pagani have money.
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In park it will be parked without the ability to roll anywhere, which in neutral it could.
I understood on more typical automatic gearboxes, the 'Park' function locks the transmission of the wheels without linking the engine to the transmission, thus it stops the car rolling forward or backwards, whilst Neutral is like neutral on a manual, just no gear so it leaves the wheels/transmission free to roll. I presume DSG works in a similar fashion. I presume also if you were being towed, you would need to put the gear into neutral otherwise you would just wreck the transmission and/or gearbox.
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask.
Sorry, but that is NOT what the 'edit post' function is for. Extremely bad forum manners to totally edit out the original context - w@nker! :rolleyes:
If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
Do your own research for a change! :rolleyes:
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All the modern ones with any money behind them use a DSG box.
The little few cars a year boys struggle on with clutches and sticks.
Pagani have money.
Money doesn't buy technology though!
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask.
Sorry, but that is NOT what the 'edit post' function is for. Extremely bad forum manners to totally edit out the original context - w@nker! :rolleyes:
If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
Do your own research for a change! :rolleyes:
Now now, no need to resort to name calling when you cant find an answer to my question.
Just as I suspected from you though, when a know it all doesnt have an answer, the brain doesnt know what to do.
If a manual box is good enough for Pagani, its good enough for me.
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In park it will be parked without the ability to roll anywhere, which in neutral it could.
I understood on more typical automatic gearboxes, the 'Park' function locks the transmission of the wheels without linking the engine to the transmission, thus it stops the car rolling forward or backwards,
Nearly. The park function actually locks the final drive crownwheel, which is locked to the engine via the locked clutches.
whilst Neutral is like neutral on a manual, just no gear so it leaves the wheels/transmission free to roll. I presume DSG works in a similar fashion. I presume also if you were being towed, you would need to put the gear into neutral otherwise you would just wreck the transmission and/or gearbox.
You cant tow a DSG at all. It needs to be a wheel free or flat-bed lift
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I don't like VW as a brand.
The link with Hitler always put me off buying one.
I only bought a VW because of the DSG.
Now everyone else is using them I can look to other brands next time (I considered the Golf R but it offers nothing new).
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask.
Sorry, but that is NOT what the 'edit post' function is for. Extremely bad forum manners to totally edit out the original context - w@nker! :rolleyes:
If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
Do your own research for a change! :rolleyes:
Now now, no need to resort to name calling when you cant find an answer to my question.
Just as I suspected from you though, when a know it all doesnt have an answer, the brain doesnt know what to do.
Erm, what the fcuk are you on about? Just because I didn't cower to your arrogant demand, you suddenly think that I don't 'know' the answer! For the record, I DO know the answer, but narrow little minds like yours can't seem to accept 'facts', nor fundamental decency of conduct on the forum - and that is why I can't be ar$ed in wasting my time on muppets like you! :angry:
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...
And so are Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, Fernando Alonso, et al - but they only have two pedals (one stop and one go), and change gear with flappy paddles! :tongue:
Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
There are plenty of reasons why Formula 1 cars all have the flappy-paddle systems, it's all to achieve the maximum performance from the machine. As well as increasing acceleration and more time by the engine applying power to the wheels, the convenience for the drivers just having to press a button to change gear rather than having to physically move their hand from the wheel, wiggle a stick then move it back to the wheel to take a corner or whatever other move, it allows the drivers to concentrate more on the general job of driving and racing to finish first.
When talking about mere consumer level cars that mortals like me to drive, it's going to be more of a comfort and convenience thing, as well as another big factor which is financial cost. DSG costs over £1000 more than manual on a GTI. For people like me who haven't got £1000s to spend on additional features, it's something to consider not having. After all, some of us are just after a nice car that's practical and comfortable and not wanting to cane the pants off it. And most of us know how to drive manual anyway and we're used to it so why have to change habit? I agree with the previous poster, DSG isn't the final thing in gearboxes; wiggling the stick still has simplicity and familiarity going for it, I think for lots of years to come.
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I don't like VW as a brand.
The link with Hitler always put me off buying one.
But the modern Volkswagen brand has very little to do with Hitler. It actually owes its existance to the British Army, the REME, and one certain Army Major, Ivan Hurst. So you could say VW is a British company, based in Germany! :wink:
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I don't like VW as a brand.
The link with Hitler always put me off buying one.
But the modern Volkswagen brand has very little to do with Hitler. It actually owes its existance to the British Army, the REME, and one certain Army Major, Ivan Hurst. So you could say VW is a British company, based in Germany! :wink:
My wife is from Oldham, knew the Hirst family very well indeed.
The way he was pushed out once VW was back on the rails was typically Germanic.
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I don't like VW as a brand.
The link with Hitler always put me off buying one.
I only bought a VW because of the DSG.
Now everyone else is using them I can look to other brands next time (I considered the Golf R but it offers nothing new).
I'm sorry as I'm just a n00b on this forum for saying this, but that's one of the most stupid things I've read on the Internet. VW has long swept away it's roots with those organisations. If you look at VW history, a Yorkshireman called Major Ivan Hirst probably has more to do with what VW is today than Hitler,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#1945:_British_Army.2C_Major_Ivan_Hirst.2C_unclear_future
And considering they have created iconic vehicles such as the original Beetle and the Campers which are loved all over the world, I'm surprised when you see VW all you can think of is Hitler.
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I don't like VW as a brand.
The link with Hitler always put me off buying one.
I only bought a VW because of the DSG.
Now everyone else is using them I can look to other brands next time (I considered the Golf R but it offers nothing new).
I'm sorry as I'm just a n00b on this forum for saying this, but that's one of the most stupid things I've read on the Internet. VW has long swept away it's roots with those organisations. If you look at VW history, a Yorkshireman called Major Ivan Hirst probably has more to do with what VW is today than Hitler,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#1945:_British_Army.2C_Major_Ivan_Hirst.2C_unclear_future
Didn't I just say that about two posts ago? :tongue: :smiley:
And considering they have created iconic vehicles such as the original Beetle and the Campers which are loved all over the world, I'm surprised when you see VW all you can think of is Hitler.
Ahhhh, but the ORIGINAL Beetle was a 'Hitler' car! :wink:
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...
Ahhhh, but the ORIGINAL Beetle was a 'Hitler' car! :wink:
Well whether it was or wasn't a Hitler car, I don't think most people think of it like that, I certainly don't. Don't peace lovin' hippies dig that car? Lots of people and counties have particular periods in history that they are not proud of. But the world isn't like that anymore is it? Well it certainly is better than what it used to be. At least we aren't living in a World War where we are in fear of bombs dropping on our heads.
Sorry about repeating what was said earlier, the replies are so quick, I get a bit delayed whilst I'm typing out my reply.
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I think both DDRFan and T_T, you are forgetting the most important point of all, which is simply that Hairy Porter is a n0b. So you really are wasting your time.
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I think both DDRFan and T_T, you are forgetting the most important point of all, which is simply that Hairy Porter is a n0b. So you really are wasting your time.
I agree entirely.
He's a wind up merchant and the more you respond the more kicks he gets.
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i got bored reading 3 pages of TT's signature in this thread.
however i will say TT i can't believe you are comparing super cars to a GTI. not really a direct comparison is it. At the end of the day, manual is better. we have all come to that conclusion. btw TT, you didn't answer my question from yesterday - how old are you out of interest?
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask.
Sorry, but that is NOT what the 'edit post' function is for. Extremely bad forum manners to totally edit out the original context - w@nker! :rolleyes:
If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
Do your own research for a change! :rolleyes:
Now now, no need to resort to name calling when you cant find an answer to my question.
Just as I suspected from you though, when a know it all doesnt have an answer, the brain doesnt know what to do.
Erm, what the fcuk are you on about? Just because I didn't cower to your arrogant demand, you suddenly think that I don't 'know' the answer! For the record, I DO know the answer, but narrow little minds like yours can't seem to accept 'facts', nor fundamental decency of conduct on the forum - and that is why I can't be ar$ed in wasting my time on muppets like you! :angry:
I dont know fundeamental decency, yet you just called me a wayne kerr and a muppet ? :grin: Again, you don't know why Pagani doesnt choose retarded flappy paddles and are making a big hooha out of it. Dont worry, none of us are, we appreciate the help you do give when you do know something.
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i got bored reading 3 pages of TT's signature in this thread.
however i will say TT i can't believe you are comparing super cars to a GTI. not really a direct comparison is it. At the end of the day, manual is better. we have all come to that conclusion. btw TT, you didn't answer my question from yesterday - how old are you out of interest?
Has to be 40+ - He has waaaay too much info for a young head.
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask.
Sorry, but that is NOT what the 'edit post' function is for. Extremely bad forum manners to totally edit out the original context - w@nker! :rolleyes:
If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
Do your own research for a change! :rolleyes:
Now now, no need to resort to name calling when you cant find an answer to my question.
Just as I suspected from you though, when a know it all doesnt have an answer, the brain doesnt know what to do.
Erm, what the fcuk are you on about? Just because I didn't cower to your arrogant demand, you suddenly think that I don't 'know' the answer! For the record, I DO know the answer, but narrow little minds like yours can't seem to accept 'facts', nor fundamental decency of conduct on the forum - and that is why I can't be ar$ed in wasting my time on muppets like you! :angry:
I dont know fundeamental decency, yet you just called me a wayne kerr and a muppet ? :grin: Again, you don't know why Pagani doesnt choose retarded flappy paddles and are making a big hooha out of it. Dont worry, none of us are, we appreciate the help you do give when you do know something.
the NEW Pagani will have flappy paddles though
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/226146/pagani_zonda_c9_mule.html
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i got bored reading 3 pages of TT's signature in this thread.
however i will say TT i can't believe you are comparing super cars to a GTI. not really a direct comparison is it. At the end of the day, manual is better. we have all come to that conclusion. btw TT, you didn't answer my question from yesterday - how old are you out of interest?
Has to be 40+ - He has waaaay too much info for a young head.
i would say 55 plus to be honest. cause all his useful info and experience (which is helpful) is turning into a bit of an old man know it all :laugh:
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i got bored reading 3 pages of TT's signature in this thread.
however i will say TT i can't believe you are comparing super cars to a GTI. not really a direct comparison is it. At the end of the day, manual is better. we have all come to that conclusion. btw TT, you didn't answer my question from yesterday - how old are you out of interest?
Has to be 40+ - He has waaaay too much info for a young head.
i would say 55 plus to be honest. cause all his useful info and experience (which is helpful) is turning into a bit of an old man know it all :laugh:
his sig does say he's retired :wink:
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i got bored reading 3 pages of TT's signature in this thread.
however i will say TT i can't believe you are comparing super cars to a GTI. not really a direct comparison is it. At the end of the day, manual is better. we have all come to that conclusion. btw TT, you didn't answer my question from yesterday - how old are you out of interest?
Has to be 40+ - He has waaaay too much info for a young head.
i would say 55 plus to be honest. cause all his useful info and experience (which is helpful) is turning into a bit of an old man know it all :laugh:
You better edit that quick before you turn into a wayne kerr too :grin:
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Get in the real world!! for the last time the dsg box is not the be all and end all,
Really? :rolleyes:
So why does the 1000 horsepower Bugatti Veyron ONLY use a DSG? And why have Porsche developed their own version of the DSG - aka PDK? What about the Mitsubishi DCT? :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug: These are all dual-clutch automated manual transmissions! :nerd:
Why does the Zonda PS not use a DSG or DSG equivalent ?
And where did that come from? :rolleyes:
Can't you answer the question ?
I actually replied to your 'original version' of your post. Your 'edited' post completely changed the context of what you originally wrote! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I edited to make it a better question to ask.
Sorry, but that is NOT what the 'edit post' function is for. Extremely bad forum manners to totally edit out the original context - w@nker! :rolleyes:
If DSG and its equivalent was that good, why wouldnt the Zonda PS use it ? I just thought as you mentioned a few supercars that use it, you may be able to tell us why there are other supercars that dont ?
Do your own research for a change! :rolleyes:
Now now, no need to resort to name calling when you cant find an answer to my question.
Just as I suspected from you though, when a know it all doesnt have an answer, the brain doesnt know what to do.
Erm, what the fcuk are you on about? Just because I didn't cower to your arrogant demand, you suddenly think that I don't 'know' the answer! For the record, I DO know the answer, but narrow little minds like yours can't seem to accept 'facts', nor fundamental decency of conduct on the forum - and that is why I can't be ar$ed in wasting my time on muppets like you! :angry:
I dont know fundeamental decency, yet you just called me a wayne kerr and a muppet ? :grin: Again, you don't know why Pagani doesnt choose retarded flappy paddles and are making a big hooha out of it. Dont worry, none of us are, we appreciate the help you do give when you do know something.
the NEW Pagani will have flappy paddles though
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/226146/pagani_zonda_c9_mule.html
Rhyso, are you and TT not one and the same person ?
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Rhyso, are you and TT not one and the same person ?
nope :tongue:
I'm younger and far better looking :laugh: :laugh:
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You better edit that quick before you turn into a wayne kerr too :grin:
it does seem if you disagree with TT you are a tosspot. as informative as he is some of his statements are utter sh1te. plus i've noticed he never replies to comments when he's in the wrong. but then again, he's probably got nowt else to do after pottering around the garden and walking the dog so then he comes on here for hours on end and talks at people instead of with them. :rolleyes:
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Rhyso, are you and TT not one and the same person ?
nope :tongue:
I'm younger and far better looking :laugh: :laugh:
:grin:
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You better edit that quick before you turn into a wayne kerr too :grin:
it does seem if you disagree with TT you are a tosspot. as informative as he is some of his statements are utter sh1te. plus i've noticed he never replies to comments when he's in the wrong. but then again, he's probably got nowt else to do after pottering around the garden and walking the dog so then he comes on here for hours on end and talks at people instead of with them. :rolleyes:
That is actually spot on what you have just said.
Thing is, if this old biddy has retired then I've been called a muppet and a w@nker by an old man, I dont know wither to laugh, cry. sit in the corner shaking or go for a long shower and scrub myself as I feel violated. :grin:
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You better edit that quick before you turn into a wayne kerr too :grin:
it does seem if you disagree with TT you are a tosspot. as informative as he is some of his statements are utter sh1te. plus i've noticed he never replies to comments when he's in the wrong. but then again, he's probably got nowt else to do after pottering around the garden and walking the dog so then he comes on here for hours on end and talks at people instead of with them. :rolleyes:
That is actually spot on what you have just said.
Thing is, if this old biddy has retired then I've been called a muppet and a w@nker by an old man, I dont know wither to laugh, cry. sit in the corner shaking or go for a long shower and scrub myself as I feel violated. :grin:
:grin: :grin: :grin: funniest post ever - made me laugh out loud - now trying to cover it up as my work is not funny therefore its quite obvious i'm not working!! :grin:
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I dont see why if a super has/has not got DSG is relevant as to why you would want it in your golf? :huh:
Its like saying you want a sunroof on your bike, just because it works so well on your car... they are for 2 totally differing purposes in my eyes.
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Please please can we kill this thread now? I'm compelled to read it on a daily basis but it really did run out of steam ten pages ago......
Onto more interesting subjects? Now can anyone advise me on fitting a sunroof to my bicycle? :grin:
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(http://camelsnose.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/prisoner-penny-farthing-550.jpg)
Rolfe.
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:grin: :grin:
Sorry Rolfe.... i meant electric sunroof :tongue: :grin:
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(http://api.ning.com/files/e*tI2msPEo0c7z*IjTHC6xE1Rqg2Ik8LwUTv3G1IszDJfY5ZanPa6lyFnVIrWc5ixyPQmFo29hE3qmUeAXQZhSRT8WLZb-n1/gay_thread.jpg)
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^^ You hair really is growing back quite quickly is it not Jules?? :tongue: :grin:
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Why does the GTI get 6 gears in the DSG but other models get 7?
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Why does the GTI get 6 gears in the DSG but other models get 7?
I think the 7-speed DSG is for low-torque engines only.
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^^ You hair really is growing back quite quickly is it not Jules?? :tongue: :grin:
:grin:
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Jules, where have you been, I've missed your wise cracks. :smiley:
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Barcelona, was beautiful! Lovely weather too :smiley:
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Barcelona, was beautiful! Lovely weather too :smiley:
Huh. I was there on 14th September and got soaked.
Rolfe.
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27 and pure sun yesterday, i got burned to a crisp :grin:
Arrived sunday, rained that evening and was perfect after! Spent a whole day at the zoo which was superb! Saw a MK6 GTI in white, i swear i see one every week lol
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27 and pure sun yesterday, i got burned to a crisp :grin:
Arrived sunday, rained that evening and was perfect after! Spent a whole day at the zoo which was superb! Saw a MK6 GTI in white, i swear i see one every week lol
Twelve years ago every car in Spain was white. Then blacks and dark colours which get very hot, the new trend for white cars is very welcome and sensible.
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Barcelona, was beautiful! Lovely weather too :smiley:
I'm jealous. :sad:
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Barcelona, was beautiful! Lovely weather too :smiley:
I'm jealous. :sad:
.. and I thought you were Kev :huh: :tongue:
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Having had a chance to experiment a little with the dsg now, one downside for me is that in manual mode the gearstick is counterintuitive for me.
Surely it should be push for downshifts and pull for upshifts?
Luckily I don't use the stick for manual changes and thank god the paddles were set right (unlike the pdk system).
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Can you get DSG on a Nissan Micra?
No, they are manuals, as are most weedy little cheap cars.
Can you get manual on a Veyron?
No, they are DSG, as are most powerful expensive cars.
I rest my case.
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jesus wept, is this topic still going on?
can't it just be agreed to disagree? rather than harp on about which is best.
DSG is ace because i can't be arsed to change gear, but loads of my mates would always take a manual, and thats how life's rich tapestry works!
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You can get an automatic Micra though! :wink:
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Can you get DSG on a Nissan Micra?
No, they are manuals, as are most weedy little cheap cars.
Can you get manual on a Veyron?
No, they are DSG, as are most powerful expensive cars.
I rest my case.
Can you get dsg on a diesel bottom of the range golf? Yes
Can you get a manual Zonda? Yes
What was your point again?? :rolleyes:
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The old Pagani is to be replaced by a new model.
With DSG :grin:
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The old Pagani is to be replaced by a new model.
With DSG :grin:
Thats to keep up with the speed wars. No one said it wasnt quicker, just that it wasnt better.
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For the love of god, I'm the worlds worst at keeping debates open but this ran its course yonks ago, please lock this now.