Manual or DSG?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I would wait for a few more years until reliablility issues with the DSG is fully ironed out. Considering commercial introduction of the DSG was only made in 2008, the technology needs to mature a little longer before I am confident in it.

Huh - you are only 5 years late with that!  The DSG was introduced in 2003 in the Mk4 R32, and the Audi TT - and have more than proved their reliability.  I suggest you look at the wikipedia DSG article (which was mainly written by me) - and you will realise that the DSG is basically two manual gearboxes in one - so ancient technology, a pair of oil-bathed multi-plate clutches (which are used in nigh-on all motorbikes, so again, well-proven technology), and a 'mechantronics' module - which is exactly what ALL electronically controlled conventional autoboxes use.  So what, exactly, needs 'proving' ?

Yep, I have been corrected on this point. Strangely, I was reading wikipedia too but I guess I must have quoted the wrong year. ho ho ho In any case, what I was trying to point out is that whilst I like the technology that the DSG brings, there are still issues plaguing it. Some are lucky and some not. What worries me is that even after 6 years, people are still having problems with the DSG. So until production is more consistent and better QC introduced, I will stick to manual.

OK, but as others have no doubt pointed out, manual gearboxes can go wrong, manual clutches can wear out, the dual mass flywheel on a manual is known to be a weak point . . . .

But for the DSG specifically, the only real 'achilies heel' - if it could even remotely be described as such, is the mechatronics.  But these mechatronics are used on ALL modern electronically controlled automatic gearboxes - so BMW, Merc, Audi, Shaguar, Lexus, etc, etc.  You dont hear of normal autoboxes failing - and the DSG will be just as reliable as any conventional auto - or any manual box.

And as a final couple of points, if the DSG were so 'fragile', then why is it used on the Bugatti Veyron, and why is it that Porsche are now using it too - the PDK. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Tell us more... what was it specifically you didn't get on with?

In 'manual' it still changed up when it wanted to...not when I did.
Also, dropped down another gear, when I didn't want it to - came up behind a lorry in 6th, in 'manual', clicked down 2 into 4th...lorry passes, I plant the foot and am happy in 4th...but no, DSG wants 3rd, hence jarring, much revving and much swearing by the driver as car lurches about.

In 'normal' it changed up about the right point, for me...
In 'sport' it revved higher than I probably would for the load the engine was under.

Midway round a corner, in 5th, I press the accellerator to allow the boost to build and the torque to pull me through the bend...but no, it decides to drop a gear, just about on the apex of the bend...no, no, no.

I really wanted to like it...I had convinced myself I was having a DSG GTI...but 15 mins later it had me swearing...and 2 hours later pulling my hair out.

I liked it on a Mk5 GT TDI 170...maybe it just suits the lower revving, torquey diesels better?

Anyway, I came away feally deflated. I really thought I'd like it, and keen to option it...but came away with a deep hatred of it.
Horrible!

It honestly seems like you didn't give the DSG a chance.  The DSG uses an adaptive shift pattern - but it needs to 'learn' the drivers style.  This can take a couple of engine on/engine off cycles (just like when an engine ECU adapts to different fuel grades). 

Give it another much longer go. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too

No it wont.  The gearbox still shifts automatically, even if kickdown has been activated. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

It will drop down in manual if you hit the 'kick' button too

I didn't like that either...
I had already decided 4th would be fine, as I'd dropped two gears (at the speed 'it' wanted too, not the speed I wanted it to!) but oh no, DSG wanted 3rd...
The result was manic revving and much cursing...
4th and full throttle would have been just fine.

try it in an R32 mate.. scares the crap out of anyone stood within 10ft of you!! 

Its prolly YOU they are scared of! 

[R32UK]

And as a final couple of points, if the DSG were so 'fragile', then why is it used on the Bugatti Veyron, and why is it that Porsche are now using it too - the PDK. 

Would that be the same Bugatti Veyron that uses the Haldex???    Maybe we should save that discussion for another day! 

[Max Q]

In my earlier post about overriding the kickdown switch in manual - I meant the '+' paddle and not the '-' paddle. I've edited my post. It has no practical use on the road for driving IMO but is used on rolling roads to ensure a full in gear run at WOT. All you DSG owners try it for yourselves - flick the gear selector over to manual, change up a gear using the '+' paddle but keep the paddle held, mash your right foot to the floor all the way into the kickdown, and viola - no kickdown (as long as the paddle is held).

Disclaimer: This ain't in the owners manual, so do so at your own risk!

[Max Q]

As an aside, I think the DSG kickdown function can even be disabled completely using VAG-COM.

[Ess_Three]

Um, but it was doing what you told it to do... you just weren't telling it the right things because obviously you don't understand how to use a DSG. I guess it's a case of someone blaming the tools for his own mistakes.

Umm...well the thing is, when 'I' decide I want that I want 4th gear for driving 'my' car on a road I know, and overtaking in a manner I am happy with...4th is the blo*dy gear I expect the gearbox to stay in...whether manual or DSG.
I don't want the ECU deciding I my selecting 4th isn't correct and selecting 3rd.
I want 4th...
I'm in manual...
I've dropped two gears manually...
I accellerate in 4th because I only want 4th gear accelleration, but I want full throttle, 4th gear accelleration - as I would in a manual car...but no, DSG wants 3rd.

I fail to see how me selecting 4th was me in some way not understanding a gearbox (manual or DSG in manual...it's still 4th)..nor do I see how your comment stands about me blaming the 'tool' for my mistakes.
It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?

At least with a manual it stays in the gear I want.

[JonnyG]

It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?

That's one aspect of DSG that a lot of people would like to see changed (i.e kickdown should be disabled in M mode). 

There are DSG remaps available that will disable kickdown in M mode (as well as other tweaks), so it is possible.

With practice it is possible to "feel" the point at which kickdown is about to kick in, and you can learn to avoid kickdown, but the natural thing to do when overtaking is mash your right foot to the floor         

[AdrianM]

Um, but it was doing what you told it to do... you just weren't telling it the right things because obviously you don't understand how to use a DSG. I guess it's a case of someone blaming the tools for his own mistakes.

Umm...well the thing is, when 'I' decide I want that I want 4th gear for driving 'my' car on a road I know, and overtaking in a manner I am happy with...4th is the blo*dy gear I expect the gearbox to stay in...whether manual or DSG.
I don't want the ECU deciding I my selecting 4th isn't correct and selecting 3rd.
I want 4th...
I'm in manual...
I've dropped two gears manually...
I accellerate in 4th because I only want 4th gear accelleration, but I want full throttle, 4th gear accelleration - as I would in a manual car...but no, DSG wants 3rd.

I fail to see how me selecting 4th was me in some way not understanding a gearbox (manual or DSG in manual...it's still 4th)..nor do I see how your comment stands about me blaming the 'tool' for my mistakes.
It's my car, I'm driving and I want 4th...what's so hard about staying in 4th?

At least with a manual it stays in the gear I want.

But that's the thing; you are expecting the DSG in manual mode to behave like a fully manual box and it isn't, it's a DSG in manual mode. Your expectations were wrong because you didn't know how a DSG was supposed to work. If you don't like a kick down that's fine, I can accept that, but don't blame the box for a design feature that you didn't know about and you initiated by putting your foot down when, as others have stated, it's something that can be avoided if you are aware of it.