Excuses to buy a MKVI

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Is any of this actually linked with excuses to buy a MKVI?

Of course it is Mr Hurdy - we are all discussing weather to go for the 4motion versions!   

BTW, bump your DSG thread.  I want to give you and answer to your slip-slip-slip prob, but can't find the thread.   

[RedRobin]

Back on the subject of Haldex....

I recently drove an APS Stage3 Mk5 R32 with Haldex in Race mode and did so 'in anger' (actually calmly but as the expression goes). I found it twitched when powering out of a large roundabout - Not a problem but I drove it back-to-back with a Mk5 GTI highly modified by VW Racing and with a Quaife diff. The point is that this particular GTI felt much quicker on the same roundabout and was much better planted than the R32 on the whole route. In fact I didn't manage to unsettle the GTI though I didn't really want to on a public road! ESP was On in both cars.

The only time I've found ESP intrusive has been on this issue of tyres (another thread).

I've ridden in quattro S4's but never driven one, so I can't make a comparison.

P.S.- I think that all our chat about Haldex and quattro etc is very relevant to the Mk6, or at least to the rumoured GTI-R version with "AWD". I've also learnt a lot about Haldex etc from this thread.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I know the s3 is the same as the r32 underneath, i felt the s3 turned in a little better than the R, i put it down to the s3 being lighter up front.

Yeah, the R32s VR6 lump really is quite a bit heaver than the S3s four pot turbo lump.

BTW, was it the latest S3 with the 265PS 2.0TFSI you had a go in?

Wouldnt mind going in a quattro to see what its like, will have a go soon and report back.
Gotta love test drives

Go for it.  I found it very hard to refuse the keys to the latest RS6 for a whold day.  It would have been mighty rude not to! 

Yes it was the new s3,

OK, ta.

Doubt the audi dealer would let me have the rs6 for the day, im only 20 .

It really depends on what you already drive, and how well you know your local dealer.  I've known my local Audi dealer for over 10 years, and they certainly didn't dangle RS, or even S keys when I first wandered in there.  They did let me loose in a B5 A4 2.8q for the day.  I suppose it all depends on weather you just want a jolly, or have real intent on considering a purchase.

Dont think i would want to buy an rs6 at this moment in time, would lose alot of money on it very quickly. My dad has lost quite a bit off his e60 m5. Had it nearly 3 years but to sell it now would be silly, plus he enjoys it too much

Yeah, the RS6 really is silly money.  Shame really, because I'd really consider swapping my RS4 for one, but by the time I'd spec'd ceramic anchors, recaro buckets, sunroof, de-restricted, and uprated ICE, I'd be looking at about £90k      That's just silly money, and you are probably into GT3 territory.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Back on the subject of Haldex....

I recently drove an APS Stage3 Mk5 R32 with Haldex in Race mode and did so 'in anger' (actually calmly but as the expression goes). I found it twitched when powering out of a large roundabout - Not a problem but I drove it back-to-back with a Mk5 GTI highly modified by VW Racing and with a Quaife diff. The point is that this particular GTI felt much quicker on the same roundabout and was much better planted than the R32 on the whole route. In fact I didn't manage to unsettle the GTI though I didn't really want to on a public road! ESP was On in both cars.

The only time I've found ESP intrusive ahs been on this issue of tyres (another thread).

I've ridden in quattro S4's but never driven one, so I can't make a comparison.

Interesting comments, thanks.

Do you happen to know if the APS R32 had its Haldex permanently locked on in race mode?  Because if so, then you can get whats called "transmission wind-up" on 4WDs with the centre diff locked.  Being as the Haldex is not a diff, if it were locked fully, then cornering would produce the characteristic twitching on corners.

Incidentally, all this 4wd corner twitching reminds of identical symptoms from RalliArt Mitsubishi Evos and Gallants, which also use electronic "diffs".

[RedRobin]

Do you happen to know if the APS R32 had its Haldex permanently locked on in race mode?  Because if so, then you can get whats called "transmission wind-up" on 4WDs with the centre diff locked.  Being as the Haldex is not a diff, if it were locked fully, then cornering would produce the characteristic twitching on corners.

Incidentally, all this 4wd corner twitching reminds of identical symptoms from RalliArt Mitsubishi Evos and Gallants, which also use electronic "diffs".

....It has a 3-way switch, one being Race mode. I don't know if Marcus has it switched to Race constantly.

I'm looking forward to sharing my soon upcoming Quaife experience. I think, but I'm not certain, that such diffs can be fitted to R32's front and back.

[luca]

I know the s3 is the same as the r32 underneath, i felt the s3 turned in a little better than the R, i put it down to the s3 being lighter up front.

Yeah, the R32s VR6 lump really is quite a bit heaver than the S3s four pot turbo lump.

BTW, was it the latest S3 with the 265PS 2.0TFSI you had a go in?

Wouldnt mind going in a quattro to see what its like, will have a go soon and report back.
Gotta love test drives

Go for it.  I found it very hard to refuse the keys to the latest RS6 for a whold day.  It would have been mighty rude not to! 

Yes it was the new s3,

OK, ta.

Doubt the audi dealer would let me have the rs6 for the day, im only 20 .

It really depends on what you already drive, and how well you know your local dealer.  I've known my local Audi dealer for over 10 years, and they certainly didn't dangle RS, or even S keys when I first wandered in there.  They did let me loose in a B5 A4 2.8q for the day.  I suppose it all depends on weather you just want a jolly, or have real intent on considering a purchase.

Dont think i would want to buy an rs6 at this moment in time, would lose alot of money on it very quickly. My dad has lost quite a bit off his e60 m5. Had it nearly 3 years but to sell it now would be silly, plus he enjoys it too much

Yeah, the RS6 really is silly money.  Shame really, because I'd really consider swapping my RS4 for one, but by the time I'd spec'd ceramic anchors, recaro buckets, sunroof, de-restricted, and uprated ICE, I'd be looking at about £90k      That's just silly money, and you are probably into GT3 territory.

I really like the rs6 but wouldnt buy one so wouldnt waste the dealers time. Driving an ed30 at the moment but i think the TTRS is on the cards for next year, 5cyl engines just sound nuts

[R32UK]

I must say that I originally would have agreed with TT's explanation of the twitch! This really can scare the shizzel out of you... like i found when I was first got the car and was pushing on round a corner. However with time, and then the discovery of the ESp switch I dont find this a problem any more. I know exactly how the car is going to behave. I find that its the ESP that causes it to be twitchy.

Hmm. . . .  I wonder why I experienced this twitch on the A3 3.2 quattro, which has the identical pwertrain, transmission, suspension, brakes etc as your R32 - and it was apparent weather the ESP was on or off! 

I certainly havn't driven the R32 for any extended period in "anger", but when I did "provoke" it - it displayed the same uneasy "steppy" torque transfer.  The sales bint in the back asked me if I'd broken something, so I showed her again.  She relied "oh youve got the ESP working" - to which I replied, "sorry dear, but I turned it off before we set off".  To which an argument ensued with the sales bint about me not being "allowed" to turn off the ESP on test drives.  And I kindly pointed out my S4 in the car park . . . and the V10 S6 which I'd borrowed recently - and all driven with the ESP off.  She then instucted me to end the test drive immediately, and return straight to the stealership slowly.  As you can guess, I didn't buy an R32, nor any car from that stealership, and she no longer works there.

So, I dunno, but EVERY Haldex car I've driven has always displayed the same handling traits.  Maybe different tyres are causing differing handling characteristics - just like on the Mich PS2 vs Goodyear thread.  What seems to be of concern though, is that I thought the Golf V GTI, and presumably the R32 too, was supposed to have an enhanced ESP system, which was meant to be less intrusive.  I certainly don't get any real intervention from the ESP on the GTI, unless I'm driving like a tool in the wet or sommat.  Even with the current mix of Mich PS2 and Dunlop ShyteMaxx, the ESP allows a considerable tollerance, particularly when compared to say the Golf V GT TDI 170! 

For me the ESP provides just too much involvement in your driving... individually braking each wheel as it sees neccessary even when you just coasting. Turn it off and you have yourself an amazing handling car!! The haldex works like a dream... providing the right amount of power just where you need it.

Is the above happening in a straight line, or when cornering.  If it does it when cornering, it may be working as designed, being as the VR6 lump is quite a heavy beast, when compared to the GTI 4-pot lump.

Maybe your ESP is not working correctly! 

Oh, don't get me wrong.  I've never stated that Haldex doesn't work!  :embarassed:  I just personally find it works very differently to Torsen, and I can sense those differences.  Perhaps if I'd never owned my S4/RS4, and only driven Haldex cars, I may have formed a different opinion! 

It only happens on fast sweeping bends (a certain downhill strech I encounter on the way home). Its very slight but you can feel the car making minor adjustments to keep it in line... but as I say this is only if I hit the bend at a high speed 8.5+mph. I again have not owned or driven a Torsen vehicle so cant really comment on the differences. But I do stand with Topher on this one (0bviously ) esp the weight of his post about the R32 being quicker than the lighter more powerful S4

[topher]

almost.. S4 is heavier, but still 40bhp/ton advantage

edit: and just a little bit of on-topicness.. nosied at a few shots of the mk6 over the last few days and it isn't growing on me yet, so unless they do a really tasty 'R' version (with the mighty mighty haldex) that isn't S3 money i'll be praying for a high performance version of the 'rocco instead

[NewGolf]

Ok so after some light reading on here(yikes) I decided to give a friend of mine a phone call and ask if he was ok if I drove his R32 to compare it to my GTI.
I was in fact going to compare it to my S4 which I sold a few months ago, but didn't tell him that 

Ok so here goes. Hoofed it off the line in the dry, it was already warmed up, so fully dumped the clutch at big revs! Big squeals from the front, seemingly up to about 10mph then it seemed to gain some grip and get the power down. He didnt mind me hammering the car as he's agreed a trade in price and waiting for a BMW M3 (I did try talk him out of it!).

Compared to my standard GTI, I actually found it quite "bland", ok it sounded nicer than the GTI (but no way near as good as the S4 mind you), but a lot less power than I had expected. It has just been serviced for 30k miles, just over 2 years old from memory. It went Ok, but not impressive and after hammering it for about half an hour around the coast roads here, I experianced some twitchiness. The R32 in no way felt as planted, or as powerful as the S4.

I have a "run" I use to test cars out, it's my way home from work, I have been using it for about 7 years so know the road very well. I did the usual run a couple of times and found it cornered with less grip and felt a lot slower than the S4. in fact at some points I actually thought I had either a wheel off the ground, or the 4wd was playing up. It felt too bouncy and twitchy for my liking.

After owning the S4 for 2 years, thrashing it from new and taking it for laps of the "Ring", I feel its a far faster car, the 4WD is far superior and the car much more planted. I wouldn't own an R32, I test drove 2 of them when test driving the GTI and wasn't impressed with it then either. I'm guessing Haldex isnt for me. Hammering the S4 from a standing start, it just launches off and away you go, wet or dry. I can only assume Audi use Quattro as its the better product for their range of engines and superior to Haldex?

TT in this case I'd have to fully agree with you, IMO and limited knowledge of 4WD systems, (but plenty of experiance of driving them), its Quattro/Torsen all the way for me.

Oh and my S4 B7 wasn't FSI, as far as I'm aware the RS4 has the FSI engine, not the S4.

And a RWD car handles better than a 4WD car?, your kidding right? Not a chance. Wet or dry, 4WD is far better. Period.

Still have no idea how the R32 beat the lap time of the S4 mind you (by under half a second if I remember right?), I guess the Stig was busy playing with his heated seats, the S4 was running on low octane or something? I had raced a few R32's, no trouble at all.. the wife actually reminded me I overtook a black one on the 2nd lap I took at the Nurburgring. The owner came over to me for a chat afterwards, (UK owner) and commented how he liked the RS4's. I had to explain that I only had an S4, but had changed the front grill to an RS4 version as I thought it looked better. 

[R32UK]

Good to get your opinion there NewGolf. But just because you went past a driver isnt really the most credible way of judging which car is the better at handling.

The fact is the R32 is quicker when driven round a track by a pro driver. it doesnt matter what feels faster... all that matters is what is faster. I have said on here previously that my brothers GTTDi feels faster than my R32... but I know for sure it isnt.