Excuses to buy a MKVI

[Teutonic_Tamer]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

Didnt Volkswagen design the Bugatti Veyron?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

Yup, because Volkswagen Group own Bugatti.  Without the brave move by on of the VW senior execs, the Veyron wouldn't exist!

Maybe they use similar technologies? What works for one of the worlds quickest cars will surely work for .:R32.

 

The Veyron AND the R32 both use Haldex, but as I've repeatedly stated, simply because of engineering requirements.  The fact that the Veyron needs TWO haldex units, and tyres wider than two of the R32s doesn't enter the equation then?  

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Didnt know that about the haldex. Still not keen on any 4x4. IMO you cant beat a well setup rwd car. Even fwd can benefit over 4x4 if it has a good diff and is light enough. An example is the megane r26r which punches well above its weight on track.

Pure bolloxs.  Sheer fantasy.  Why was 4wd banned in F1?  Why did 4wd transform overnight rallying.  Why does the Veyron need 4wd.  Why does any TDI A4 need 4wd.  Why can't a lightweight, race prepared M3s keep anywhere near a lardy completely standard S4 on a wet track.  Why cant a standard M3/AMG Merc keep up with an RS4 on a wet road?

I suggest you wake up and smell the coffee.  Sorry for being so blunt mate, but 4wd has massive advantages over either front or rear wheel drive, even Haldex systems. 

LOL i find it funny how people speak behind their keyboard, you can be as blunt as you want, i only take people seriously face to face. I dont need to wake up at all. 4X4 isnt the best thing since sliced bread, neither is the rs4 or its torsion 4x4. For rallying 4x4 is best. You keepmentioning wet roads all the time, on a dry road the m3 is more than a match for the rs4 aswell as many other cars. The megane is proof that fwd can work extremely well if set up properly, most of the best supercars in the world are rwd there must be a good reason for this. If you went to ferrari and said build your next car with 4x4 they would probably laugh and tell you to wake up and smell the coffee.

Oh dear.  ETTO, but I bet you are the only one to have that opinion.

Have a nice day!

[luca]

I'll have a lovely day thanks

[08micsta]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

Didnt Volkswagen design the Bugatti Veyron?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

Yup, because Volkswagen Group own Bugatti.  Without the brave move by on of the VW senior execs, the Veyron wouldn't exist!

Maybe they use similar technologies? What works for one of the worlds quickest cars will surely work for .:R32.

 

The Veyron AND the R32 both use Haldex, but as I've repeatedly stated, simply because of engineering requirements.  The fact that the Veyron needs TWO haldex units, and tyres wider than two of the R32s doesn't enter the equation then?  

TT the reason I wrote that is because VW also designed the Veyron and what I am trying to highlight is that if they can create such an amzing Haldex system for a Veyron then you can hardly say the Haldex in the .:R32 is not up to standard...

You are the only one against Haldex it seems and I have experience of Audi Quattro and I love it. I have also been in a .:R32 and must admit it didnt feel any different and that was with the same driver who just happens to have completed and advanced driving course at Audi in South Africa.

What Sharpie is saying is that if Haldex is good enough for a Veyron you cant fault it. And yes I know the Veyron cant do the whole torsen 4 wheel drive system but think about it. Almost everything in the Veyron had to either be designed from scratch or changed to work in the Veyron. IF they doubted Haldex they would have come up with something new and better.

I say this with no mechanical expertise at all and I admit that but sometimes common sense comes into play.

Peace out... 

[RedRobin]

....Now then, guys - T_T is only sharing a depth of information about the quattro/4WD and Haldex differences and how they work - A valuable education imo. No need for anyone to take offence and take posts personally either way. One man's meat is another man's poison etc and we each have our own individual preferences.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Discounting the credibility of a source (audiworld) because someone once said something silly or wrong on there at some time or other pretty much voids any information; fact or opinion, that has ever, or will ever be posted on any forum anywhere They may be stupid americans for the most part but then its not their fault you misinterpreted the 0-100% as being a rear driven range - which while is lovely for going sideways is not a goal set when looking to achieve maximum grip.

Erm, I did NOT misinterpret their 100% claim! 

And sure, on all forums, you get the odd muppet, I think you'll find that on most UK forums, we also have enough people with intelligence to sort the wheat from the chaff.  How do you explain AudiWorlds FSI/S4 claim - it certainly wasn't from any official press release from Audi (which AudiWorld claim to use), and nor is it from lifting any S4 bonnets - sorry "hoods". 

Torsen (although lets call it quattro from now on, because that is the name it deserves from the rally heritage regardless of what audi marketing reps want to stick badges on) just doesn't have the diversity, precision, timing or even close to the range of input or output you get with haldex which some people find 'twitchy' and others find just perfect.

Now you are just avoiding a question I posed.  Please tell me how the Haldex disengages drive from the front axle?  I does NOT - which means that the R32/TT/A3/S3 Haldex system can ONLY go from (front:rear, in case of any doubt) 100:0 to 50:50 (a 50% variation, in one direction only).  How can that be better than the current Torsen range of 80:20 to 0:100 (an 80% variation, in BOTH directions)

What about the fact that Haldex completely disengages for braking, thereby not utilising the rear axle to assist with engine braking?

Sorry, but Haldex does NOT have the traction range, nor the engine braking abilities has Torsen.  Yes, you can alter the behaviour of the Haldex to be more proactive, and even have it set "on" all the while.  But to do the latter, and you then loose ABS on the rears (not good, because modern ABS also controls the brake bias).  And you can NEVER (on a front engined car) set a Haldex up to give 100% (or anything above 50% to the rear axle).

Yes quattro is fine, but haldex is better (hence my point quoting the R32 is faster around the topgear track than an S4 despite the power/weight disadvantage. Not hugely scientific, but real world and tangible) and I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before the archaic technology is lost in the motoring history archives forever.

Got a link to the TopGear stuff?

And do I presume you work somewhere near Ingoldstadt or Nekarsulm (or however they are spelt!  :embarassed:) - because I don't think that the engineers at Audi AG or quattro GmbH would agree about the the Torsen being "archaic", nor do all the other completely separate OEM manufacturers who use Torsen.

BTW, what is your opinion on Quaiffe diffs, being as this is a Golf forum, before we all go massively OT.

[sharpie]

....Now then, guys - T_T is only sharing a depth of information about the quattro/4WD and Haldex differences and how they work - A valuable education imo. No need for anyone to take offence and take posts personally either way. One man's meat is another man's poison etc and we each have our own individual preferences.

you might need this  if you have problems crawling back out

[Teutonic_Tamer]

To a certain extent it will come down to personal choice.

What!?!? 

But TT is just old and stuck in his ways so make your own mind up

Erm, I may be gettin on a bit (ish), but I certainly aint "stuck in my ways"! 

[08micsta]

BTW, what is your opinion on Quaiffe diffs, being as this is a Golf forum, before we all go massively OT.

Ask RedRobin. HE is getting one in less than a month and can comapre it to a .:R32. His rite up got lost in the server crash.

Mike

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Didnt know the r32 was quicker than the s4 round the tg track. Just shows that the haldex is very good, when i test drove an r32 i thought it hadled very well as did the s3 i drove.

The R32 and the S3 use an identical Haldex, and have identical suspension setup, and share an identical floorpan (chassis) - so they will both be on a par with each other, bar any differences in tyres.

Never driven a torsion 4x4 so cant compare properly until i have driven one

Then go drive one.  You might just be pleasantly surprised.  Don't forget, most Audi garages will let you have the car for a whole day, unaccompanied.