Excuses to buy a MKVI

[luca]

I know the s3 is the same as the r32 underneath, i felt the s3 turned in a little better than the R, i put it down to the s3 being lighter up front.
Wouldnt mind going in a quattro to see what its like, will have a go soon and report back.
Gotta love test drives

[topher]

Oh dear, we're still stuck on the interpretation of that sentence With a torsen system, even the clever T-3 which allows 100% rwd, you cannot kill drive to the rear wheels, with haldex you can. At least that's how I read it.. since like you say any other way would be inaccurate. That is what puts the haldex ahead in my opinion - having drive to the rear wheels in ALL circumstances is not ideal (its not like they thought, 'hey lets disable the haldex completely under braking to make it more fun and likely to kill you!' ) ABS has evolved to the point that any assisted engine braking from the driven rear axle is just unnecessary and a waste of energy (save the whales, man.)

You can get the whole TG power lap board here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

Wouldn't worry about people still working with and developing torsen stuff, they'll learn eventually. Haldex is the iPod, torsen a gramophone. People will love them both but one is sitting on a shelf in a museum.

As for Quaife, while anarchistic habit pulls me toward the Peloquin brand just because of the way it came about - ATB diff has to be the best handling mod available for any 1wd Golf (dangle dangle), but other than a brief stint in a peloquin'd up Rallye I don't have any experience with them in '4wd' applications.

p.s older than me = stuck in their ways, no matter how much Mr. Brown accuses me of agism!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

Didnt Volkswagen design the Bugatti Veyron?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

Yup, because Volkswagen Group own Bugatti.  Without the brave move by on of the VW senior execs, the Veyron wouldn't exist!

Maybe they use similar technologies? What works for one of the worlds quickest cars will surely work for .:R32.

 

The Veyron AND the R32 both use Haldex, but as I've repeatedly stated, simply because of engineering requirements.  The fact that the Veyron needs TWO haldex units, and tyres wider than two of the R32s doesn't enter the equation then?  

TT the reason I wrote that is because VW also designed the Veyron and what I am trying to highlight is that if they can create such an amzing Haldex system for a Veyron then you can hardly say the Haldex in the .:R32 is not up to standard...

You have misread me then.  I'm not saying the R32, or any Haldex system "isn't up to standard".  I did state the Haldex can give some unusual handling "characteristics" - that is my personal opinion, and I'm perfectly at liberty to post my "opinion" here.  I also accept that others may have a differing opinion, and that's fine too.  But the most crucial "crux" of my postings, are to dispel the blatant, and completely unfounded myth that Haldex can apportion more than 50% torque to the axle it is controlling.

And VW did not create the Haldex system - they merely purchase the Haldex unit from the Swedish Haldex AB.

You are the only one against Haldex it seems and I have experience of Audi Quattro and I love it. I have also been in a .:R32 and must admit it didnt feel any different and that was with the same driver who just happens to have completed and advanced driving course at Audi in South Africa.

I am NOT against Haldex!    The Haldex system works, but I'm just highting its limitations! 

And the fact that one person cant tell the difference between on system and another is hardly scientific.  And I can't comment on RSA "Advanced" driving courses, but going by the state of some of the pure dangerous folk in the UK who gladly display the "IAM" sticker on their windscreen, and then pull out of junctions, or slam on the anchors in the middle of a roundabout - I'll gladly give them a wide berth and treat them with the appropriate contempt.  If you are talking about "Don Palmer" types of advanced driving, then that is another ball game altogether! 

Finally, I'd be fairly confident that Sabine would be able to tell the difference between Haldex and Torsen! 

What Sharpie is saying is that if Haldex is good enough for a Veyron you cant fault it.

Sorry Mike, but that is the wrong logic.  Haldex has to be used on the Veyron because it physically can not use Torsen.

And yes I know the Veyron cant do the whole torsen 4 wheel drive system but think about it. Almost everything in the Veyron had to either be designed from scratch or changed to work in the Veyron. IF they doubted Haldex they would have come up with something new and better.

Hummmmm . . . the Veyron wasn't really "designed from scratch".  They utilised the VR/W engine technology which was already in use in other VAG products.  Michelin supplied the tyres, AP the brake calipers, SGL the discs, BorgWarner the main gearbox, TRW the electronic handbrake, Behr for all the radiators and intercoolers, etc.

But you completely miss the point, that the Torsen was impossible to use as the centre diff.  Indeed, it doesn't have a centre diff at all.  It HAS to use two separate Haldex units, and that is purely down to its basic design.  If it had that mighty engine up the front, and raised the engine up high enough to use a front diff mounted on the longitudinal centre line of the car - then they would have definately been able to use Torsen.  But then it would have been really fugly, and impossbile to drive, unless you had monster truck wheels - and basically wouldn't have sold.

It is a similar situation to using brown paper bags verses plastic cartons for packaging.  Your bunch of grapes, or a block of cheese might be fine in a brown paper bag from you local market stall - but a pint of milk in a paper bag just aint gonna happen - unless you want to "water" the pavement!  See what I'm trying to say? 

I say this with no mechanical expertise at all and I admit that but sometimes common sense comes into play.

Peace out... 

Certainly a lively debate! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

....Now then, guys - T_T is only sharing a depth of information about the quattro/4WD and Haldex differences and how they work - A valuable education imo. No need for anyone to take offence and take posts personally either way. One man's meat is another man's poison etc and we each have our own individual preferences.

Thank-you Robin.  It seems I have an "allie".   

[Hurdy]

Is any of this actually linked with excuses to buy a MKVI?

[topher]

hush you! it's not often I get to have a full on technical discussion on here with people that actually know their material

[sharpie]

Is any of this actually linked with excuses to buy a MKVI?

better delete this thread hurdy, that would upset a few people

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I know the s3 is the same as the r32 underneath, i felt the s3 turned in a little better than the R, i put it down to the s3 being lighter up front.

Yeah, the R32s VR6 lump really is quite a bit heaver than the S3s four pot turbo lump.

BTW, was it the latest S3 with the 265PS 2.0TFSI you had a go in?

Wouldnt mind going in a quattro to see what its like, will have a go soon and report back.
Gotta love test drives

Go for it.  I found it very hard to refuse the keys to the latest RS6 for a whold day.  It would have been mighty rude not to! 

[luca]

I know the s3 is the same as the r32 underneath, i felt the s3 turned in a little better than the R, i put it down to the s3 being lighter up front.

Yeah, the R32s VR6 lump really is quite a bit heaver than the S3s four pot turbo lump.

BTW, was it the latest S3 with the 265PS 2.0TFSI you had a go in?

Wouldnt mind going in a quattro to see what its like, will have a go soon and report back.
Gotta love test drives

Go for it.  I found it very hard to refuse the keys to the latest RS6 for a whold day.  It would have been mighty rude not to! 

Yes it was the new s3,
Doubt the audi dealer would let me have the rs6 for the day, im only 20 . Dont think i would want to buy an rs6 at this moment in time, would lose alot of money on it very quickly. My dad has lost quite a bit off his e60 m5. Had it nearly 3 years but to sell it now would be silly, plus he enjoys it too much

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Oh dear, we're still stuck on the interpretation of that sentence

You'll need to surgically remove "Torsen" from me - it flows through my veins in the form of green gunge!   

With a torsen system, even the clever T-3 which allows 100% rwd, you cannot kill drive to the rear wheels, with haldex you can. At least that's how I read it.. since like you say any other way would be inaccurate.

Yep, hurrah, spot on! 

But I don't really see what advantages are gained from completely isolating the drive to the rear, on a car designed for four wheel drive?  LandRovers, and other dedicated "off roaders" don't (unless they throw the usual Landie trick of throwing the rear prop!).    

That is what puts the haldex ahead in my opinion - having drive to the rear wheels in ALL circumstances is not ideal (its not like they thought, 'hey lets disable the haldex completely under braking to make it more fun and likely to kill you!' ) ABS has evolved to the point that any assisted engine braking from the driven rear axle is just unnecessary and a waste of energy (save the whales, man.)

OK, I can see where you are coming from - about not wanting all the drive to go to the rear at all times (accelerating hard down hill and round a bend - it would be good for more torque to be going to the front than rear - but Torsen could do this without "thinking", whereas Haldex wouldn't be able to do so, because Haldex don't utilise an inclination sensor in their electronics).  But for completely removing drive to the rear??? 

And I don't see your point on the ABS issue either.  Because on a Haldex car, the front axle will still be utilising all the available engine braking, with the rear, effectively just trailing and not adding to the same level of stability which is provided under 4wd traction.

You can get the whole TG power lap board here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track#Power_Laps

OK, ta, will look later.

Wouldn't worry about people still working with and developing torsen stuff, they'll learn eventually. Haldex is the iPod, torsen a gramophone. People will love them both but one is sitting on a shelf in a museum.

Oi - nob off with all your "digital" music!  Vinyl rulez! 

As for Quaife, while anarchistic habit pulls me toward the Peloquin brand just because of the way it came about - ATB diff has to be the best handling mod available for any 1wd Golf (dangle dangle), but other than a brief stint in a peloquin'd up Rallye I don't have any experience with them in '4wd' applications.

But, but, but - let me get this perfectly clear - are you saying that both the Peloquin and the Quaiffe are good diffs? 

p.s older than me = stuck in their ways, no matter how much Mr. Brown accuses me of agism!

I'm so grey, the mrs uses my head for a mirror - not now I've shaved it off though!