Excuses to buy a MKVI

[Teutonic_Tamer]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

[R32UK]

I must say that I originally would have agreed with TT's explanation of the twitch! This really can scare the shizzel out of you... like i found when I was first got the car and was pushing on round a corner. However with time, and then the discovery of the ESp switch I dont find this a problem any more. I know exactly how the car is going to behave. I find that its the ESP that causes it to be twitchy. Hence the reason when raod tests are carried out on the r32 they no doubt test it with the esp off and all rave about its handling ability!

For me the ESP provides just too much involvement in your driving... individually braking each wheel as it sees neccessary even when you just coasting. Turn it off and you have yourself an amazing handling car!! The haldex works like a dream... providing the right amount of power just where you need it.

Just to note, my 4WD S4 handled a lot better than any other 2wd car I've ever driven, and was never ever twitchy. In the wet I drove it the same as I did in the dry, (apart from braking distances of course). I'm a 4WD fan but not sure about the Haldex system...good old "Quattro" I say  

I can say that I drive the same in the wet as the dry and never find any problems. THe haldex works like a dream and you seem to have endless grip available. The only time I have had the twitch was that once and tbh I was really really pushing it round a small RA.. driving at silly speed by my own admission. I would rather have the twitch than to have been parked in the middle of it tbh. But you can probably expect a few problems anyway when you get your entry speed all wrong

[sharpie]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

If there was a better 4wd system available to use then they would have used it on the Veyron. This chat about 4wd haldex not being worthwhile due to the extra weight is pure nonsense. In my (admittedly short) experience as a passenger in a g2 syncro, it was clear that the grip levels are way beyond that of a 2wd car.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

interesting read of haldex vs. torsen here http://forums.audiworld.com/a3/msgs/9923.phtml

Ohhhhh dear.  We are dealing with thick Yanks here, who are clearly retarded with their knowledge of how the Haldex works.  The Haldex does NOT "always work" - fact.  The Haldex can NOT apportion 100% drive to the rear axle - fact.  These are the same thick yanks on AudiWorld who categorically state the B6 and B7 S4 had FSI - just blatantly factually WRONG.  A similar bunch also inhabit AudiZine, who categorically state that the B7 RS4 was NOT made in an Avant.


They are also retarded in their opinion regarding "understeering" RS4s.  The simple fact, is that when any Torsen car is driven correctly, it does NOT understeer.  Torsen quattros understeering "because of the Torsen" is just pure fantasy!  The primary reason of a car understeering is bad driving.  Yes, I accept that some cars may have an increased tendency to understeer when compared to others, but Torsen quattro Audis do NOT fit into that example.

imo - haldex is a better, more efficient technology. The Veyron uses the same principle, and so will the next generation of AWD Porsches. Torsen diffs belong back in the era of leaf springs and carburettors.

Sorry, but Haldex is considerably inferior in its "application" of four wheel drive.  Just because it relies on electronics, that means jack schit!

Yes, the Torsen is relatively old "technology", but it works, and it works perfectly and flawlessly.  The wheel is also old technology, but because nothing has been invented to better it, it is still with us.

Your comparison of carbs and leaf springs are very much a red herring.  Carbs and leaf springs were both very inefficient, and had serious design and operational flaws, and better methods are now used.  Actually, to stay with springs, the torsion bar is also quite aincient, but that is still in use today, even on Porsches and the Veyron. 

And to reiterate, the Veyron and Porsche examples bear no relation to a Golf.  They are very expensive, relatively exclusive, rear engined sports cars/supercars.  A Golf / Audi A3 is a front engined family hatchback, of which you will see many in your daily travels, compared to - how many Veyrons??? 

[luca]

Didnt know that about the haldex. Still not keen on any 4x4. IMO you cant beat a well setup rwd car. Even fwd can benefit over 4x4 if it has a good diff and is light enough. An example is the megane r26r which punches well above its weight on track.

[topher]

Ohhhhh dear.  We are dealing with thick Yanks here, who are clearly retarded with their knowledge of how the Haldex works.  The Haldex does NOT "always work" - fact.  The Haldex can NOT apportion 100% drive to the rear axle - fact.

the only mention of 100% drive is to the front wheels, pay closer attention

Sorry, but Haldex is considerably inferior in its "application" of four wheel drive.  Just because it relies on electronics, that means jack schit!

Yes, the torsen method is a better way to get more driven wheels at once, but then that isn't the best way to acheive optimum grip and control, is it

just admit you're a quattro fanboy

Haldex is the future. Whether a new C4S or veyron have any comparable qualities with a golf is irrelevant, the application of the technology is the proof in the pudding.

To reference the once again much overused TG track as an example... R32 > S4 despite the 40bhp/tonne disadvantage. But then perhaps they left the manual crank handle in the grille and overfilled the oil in the headlamps and were overladen

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I must say that I originally would have agreed with TT's explanation of the twitch! This really can scare the shizzel out of you... like i found when I was first got the car and was pushing on round a corner. However with time, and then the discovery of the ESp switch I dont find this a problem any more. I know exactly how the car is going to behave. I find that its the ESP that causes it to be twitchy.

Hmm. . . .  I wonder why I experienced this twitch on the A3 3.2 quattro, which has the identical pwertrain, transmission, suspension, brakes etc as your R32 - and it was apparent weather the ESP was on or off! 

I certainly havn't driven the R32 for any extended period in "anger", but when I did "provoke" it - it displayed the same uneasy "steppy" torque transfer.  The sales bint in the back asked me if I'd broken something, so I showed her again.  She relied "oh youve got the ESP working" - to which I replied, "sorry dear, but I turned it off before we set off".  To which an argument ensued with the sales bint about me not being "allowed" to turn off the ESP on test drives.  And I kindly pointed out my S4 in the car park . . . and the V10 S6 which I'd borrowed recently - and all driven with the ESP off.  She then instucted me to end the test drive immediately, and return straight to the stealership slowly.  As you can guess, I didn't buy an R32, nor any car from that stealership, and she no longer works there.

So, I dunno, but EVERY Haldex car I've driven has always displayed the same handling traits.  Maybe different tyres are causing differing handling characteristics - just like on the Mich PS2 vs Goodyear thread.  What seems to be of concern though, is that I thought the Golf V GTI, and presumably the R32 too, was supposed to have an enhanced ESP system, which was meant to be less intrusive.  I certainly don't get any real intervention from the ESP on the GTI, unless I'm driving like a tool in the wet or sommat.  Even with the current mix of Mich PS2 and Dunlop ShyteMaxx, the ESP allows a considerable tollerance, particularly when compared to say the Golf V GT TDI 170! 

For me the ESP provides just too much involvement in your driving... individually braking each wheel as it sees neccessary even when you just coasting. Turn it off and you have yourself an amazing handling car!! The haldex works like a dream... providing the right amount of power just where you need it.

Is the above happening in a straight line, or when cornering.  If it does it when cornering, it may be working as designed, being as the VR6 lump is quite a heavy beast, when compared to the GTI 4-pot lump.

Maybe your ESP is not working correctly! 

Oh, don't get me wrong.  I've never stated that Haldex doesn't work!  :embarassed:  I just personally find it works very differently to Torsen, and I can sense those differences.  Perhaps if I'd never owned my S4/RS4, and only driven Haldex cars, I may have formed a different opinion! 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

What does the new TTS use, as I believe it has a transverse 2ltr 4 cylinder engine. If it is quattro/torsen, why cant they use that in the new GTI-R  

It is still a Haldex.  Tranverse engined cars can NOT use the Torsen as the centre diff.  It is simply down to the differences between a longitudinal gearbox and transverse transaxle.

[08micsta]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

Didnt Volkswagen design the Bugatti Veyron?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

Maybe they use similar technologies? What works for one of the worlds quickest cars will surely work for .:R32.

 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, consider the fact that the bugatti veyron uses a haldex system.

And . . . .

It costs a gazillion times more beer tokens than a Golf, has over a thousand horsepower, and has tyres wider than Cherie Blairs humongous gob.

I think your example is slightly irrelevent in the context of the Volkswagen Golf.  <yawn>

If there was a better 4wd system available to use then they would have used it on the Veyron. This chat about 4wd haldex not being worthwhile due to the extra weight is pure nonsense. In my (admittedly short) experience as a passenger in a g2 syncro, it was clear that the grip levels are way beyond that of a 2wd car.

Oh FFS - read the posts properly.

The Veyron uses Haldex because it is a rear engined car.  That means completely different engineering principles, and also means a separate "transfer box"-style gearbox, with offset rear propshaft and unequal length rear driveshafts - which physically means it can not use the Torsen as the centre diff.  It is the overall engineering package which decides the type of four wheel drive system - not any particular operational preference! 



Furthermore, where did I state "4wd haldex not being worthwhile" - due to weight or otherwise.  I didn't.  I was merely comparing the "differences". 

Finally, the G2 synchro used the pre-haldex viscous coupling, and worked different to the Haldex, in that the rears were always driven (due to the need for keeping the fluid at the correct workable viscosity, same as viscous cooling fans).  And being a "passenger" how do you know how much throttle was being applied?