Author Topic: ABS in the snow  (Read 32323 times)

Offline VWKev

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #40 on: 08 December 2010, 16:00 »
I'd get my ABS out in the snow, but its just too bloody cold to take my shirt off.







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Offline simonpolly

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #41 on: 08 December 2010, 16:19 »


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Offline Snoopy

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #42 on: 09 December 2010, 07:32 »
I have used hankook tyres on the mk1 for many years since prob the mid 90s without any problems im actually a fan of them.
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Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #43 on: 09 December 2010, 07:54 »
@Rolfe - judging from the "other thread" - you won't be suitably convinced by reading, watching or listening to what anyone has to say. Don't take that offensively, but the majority of your argument was about first hand experience.

The only way you'll know for sure is to do some tests yourself. Go into a big empty car park, mark some lines in the snow and do your own testing.

Ps. Regarding your tyre-fitter, I'd rather be embarrassed asking for a new set, than involved in a crash wishing I had

Offline Rolfe

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #44 on: 09 December 2010, 15:59 »
You know what?  It was once said that it was theoretically impossible for a bumble bee to be able to fly.  The thing is, nobody told the bumble bees, and they went right on flying.  It was recognised that the theory required some adjustment.

There was a thread referenced in another forum, quite a lengthy thing, which discussed the question of using two winter tyres only.  I read the lot, twice.  It went exactly the same way as the saner bits of the threads here.  People with their heads up their backsides pontificating that any car thus equipped would be turned into a dangerous, oversteering  monster, and people who had run their cars like that for years with no trouble at all pointing out that an ounce of practical experience trumps a ton of theory any time.  The latter group pointed out that the two-tyre-only option is particularly common in the USA, despite the propensity of Merikans to sue at the drop of a hat.

What was conspicuous by its absence was any account of a single incident apparently caused by that tyre set-up - nothing from anyone's personal experience, and no links to any news reports.  Neither was there any link to any accident statistics identifying this set-up as an accident risk.  And it also appears that no country where winter tyres are optional has banned a two-tyre set-up for safety or any other reasons.  Nothing but repeated links to the same contrived videos of cars being driven at ridiculous speeds on an ice rink, with the main culprit having had its ABS disabled for greater effect.

So I'm thinking that seeing the bumble bee flying is trumping the theory here.

Several points have emerged, certainly.  Note that this discussion is relating to the car we're talking about here, the MkVI Golf GTi.  That means it has front-wheel-drive, ABS, and ESP.

  • Four winter tyres are better than two
  • Two winter tyres are better than four summer tyres
  • If you want to see any benefit at all from these two tyres, put them on the front wheels
  • This set-up will deliver all the desired benefits of winter tyres as regards not getting stuck and being able to climb hills
  • Driven sensibly, with ABS and ESP, this set-up is acceptably safe, and certainly safer than four summer tyres

This seems to be reality, supported by the experience of people who have used this set-up.  Actual, practical real-life evidence of the set-up causing safety issues seems to be on a par with examples of bumble bees that can't fly.

Rolfe.

Offline Ben Lessani

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #45 on: 09 December 2010, 16:18 »
Thus proving my point, why are you asking? Just go and test it for yourself - as you don't believe "theory"

And as with much of the internet, the <20 people that have taken part in these "discussions" are hardly representative of the majority, let alone an entire country or continent!

Offline p3asa

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #46 on: 09 December 2010, 16:19 »
Rolfe you have mentioned the Americans and their keenness to sue on numerous occasions but who would they be suing?
As the owners of their own cars they would have made that choice to have just 2 winter tyres.
If they were involved in an accident their insurance would pick up the tab so I'm unclear who would be suing who?

I've not got winter tyres but I'm certainly in the camp that 2 would surely be better than none. Especially if you knew the constraints of those tyres and drove within certain parameters.

I can see how some folk that put 2 winter tyres on would think they could drive normally i.e. speed etc but I think if you use your common sense, it allows you to go about your normal daily activities rather than being stuck in the house waiting till the snow disappears.
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Offline Rolfe

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #47 on: 09 December 2010, 16:59 »
Oh, it was just that some people were putting forward the position that having four summer tyres or four winter tyres would see you safe from liability for an accident, because they were "matched" (even if the summer tyres were being operated well outside their recommended temperature range), while having unmatched tyres would leave you open to being sued for running a dangerous car.

No I didn't really understand it either.

Rolfe.

Offline Rolfe

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #48 on: 09 December 2010, 17:01 »
Thus proving my point, why are you asking? Just go and test it for yourself - as you don't believe "theory"

And as with much of the internet, the <20 people that have taken part in these "discussions" are hardly representative of the majority, let alone an entire country or continent!

Yeah, I did try it, Tuesday.  Braked hard on a level, snow-covered road, from about 15 mph.

The car just stopped.  Nothing unusual about it.

Rolfe.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: ABS in the snow
« Reply #49 on: 09 December 2010, 17:03 »
Apparently, if you oversteered into someone you'd be liable because you'd deliberately made your car unstable by fitting winter tyres to the front...whereas fitting them to the rear, and understeering into someone was perfectly acceptable because you were in control of a stable car.
Or some other such bo11ocks.

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