ABS in the snow

[Ess_Three]

I have repeatedly asked you how you can take an inherently understeering (by design) car and make it oversteer...and you repeatedly choose to ignore the question.

Tyre pressures, suspension stiffness, ARB, height of the front/rear.

I'm not keen on arguing with you Glen as I know you know a lot about cars in general, especially VW's, but I've managed to make mine oversteer on various occasions, both deliberately and accidentally.

Mk3: big ARBs (specifically rear), Koni coilovers, poly bushes, lots of negative camber, hard rear tyre pressures, low ride height...it doesn't oversteer...road or track.
Mk6: ACC in sport, hard rear tyre pressures, low ride height...it doesn't oversteer either.
so, I'll ask again, how do I make one of these uber-oversteering VWs?

[Ess_Three]

Hero to many Ess-three.  All the best for the festive season, who's cooking the turkey (hope he's a good chef) Keep up the good work and keep warm

Not so sure about hero to any!
Weather forecast is bad...lots of people worrying about getting off next week...no flying Thurs/Fri, forecast awful for today/tomorrow...so a flight backlog, Christmas looming and the faces are getting more misearable.
At least the Christmas food is on board...so the chef will be busy! Happy days.

Oh, one of the heaters broke in the control room yesterday afternoon...I'm struggling to maintain 20.6 degrees C in here.
It's a tough life.

[Ess_Three]

Correction, you can't

That is correct...I can't because my car is well set up and I can drive.
But by your reeasoning I'm likely to have my car swap ends at the drop of a hat with winter tyres on the front...despite my failing to make my GTIs oversteer throughout the last 17 years.

I've not ignored, it, I've answered it hundreds of times - you can do it by deliberately altering the front/rear grip. I posted 10s of videos and links to further explain this.

Ahh yes...your videos.
No actual experience though. And you choose to avoid the actual experience of those that argue.
Another clueless internet expert.

Because that wasn't the question you asked. But now you have asked, ESP can help prevent oversteer - but not break the laws of physics, ie. go put the trays under your rear wheels, drive round a car park and see if ESP saves you.

This may come as a shock to you...but I don't own tea trays.
I don't want them.
and I'll never put them under the rear wheels.
So that video is utterly irrelevant.

I do have a car with ESP though, and I do drive at speeds appropriate to the conditions.

Seriously, stop arguing, its boring.

Hopefully you'll get bored and crawl back under the rock you recently appeared from.
You just like to appear, post your YouTube links, stand on your soapbox lording it above the rest of us and expect us to roll over...whilst offering little actual, personal experience.

Well, no.

[Ben Lessani]

Everything is irrelevant to you eh?

Like I said before, we all get it - in your eyes, it is impossible for any VW to oversteer (regardless of the fact, that I and many almost all other VW owners seem to be able to).

I don't really know how it is possible to reason with you? You asked, how can you make a car oversteer - and I answered simply, reduce the grip on the rear/increase the grip at the front. This is really simply replicated by taking the trays under the rear wheels example. (basic, extreme example, but valid nonetheless)

So lets re-hash, for about the 50th time now ...

Better tyres on the front = vehicle is more prone to oversteer
Better tyres on the rear = vehicle stability is uncompromised and remains the same
Same tyres all round = vehicle stability is uncompromised and remains the same

This is a view shared by everyone in the tyre industry, everyone in the motorsport industry, everyone in the tyre fitting industry, oh and everyone else - apart from you.

The problem being now, that you are knee-deep in your own stupid, offensive and frankly ridiculous comments; making it almost impossible for you to backtrack and admit that perhaps your experience isn't quite all-encompassing and 'might' be wrong.

So, rather than furthering this dumb thread, why don't you stop posting and I'll stop posting After all, its Christmas - give the forum a gift and shut your mouth

[Ess_Three]

Ben, I think you are the most arrogant fur-lined, ocean going fuc*witt I have ever had the missfortune to read posts from.

You consistantly roll out the same old tired drivel/quotes/video clips, despite people offering personal experiences to prove otherwise.
You choose to ignore the basics of simple car design, and standard fitted satety features...
And you speak from a position of authority, in the Mk6 forum...without owning one.
Have you ever driven one?
Have you ever driven one on snow tyres?
Do you even get snow in your world?

Once again, I'll state that theory is a wonderful thing...but when reality and theory collide, reality wins. Every time.


We all get the basics...heaven knows you've wasted 10 or more pages repeating the same old tired crap.
The specifics however, are distorted or ignored.


This thread wasn't dumb before you ruined it (a repeat performance I may add) so politely, why don't you f**k off back to the forum you normally post in?
Is that the Mini forum?
Or the Mk2 Forum?


At the risk of making you appear even more ignorant and stupid, I'll let you intio a little chassis tweak for most of the Champoinship winning FWD sprint cars over the last 10 years...fit super sticky tyres to the front, and less grippy to the rear, so you kill understeer, induce oversteer to help the car rotate, and get the power back on harder with less lock applied.
You'll no doubt have a video to rubbish this...but being actively involved in motorsport over the years, I know what goes on from actually building and setting up...rather than watching it on youTube.
Therefore, I find it hard to take your comment "everyone in the motorsport industry" industry very seriously...as you clearly are a clot with little or no knowledge.

I'll await your usual response...a personal attack on anyone who happens to disagree with you.



But, if you happen to be some free-thinking genius chassis engineer that actually wants to help, and since you can get a unicycle to overster:
Please help me get my Mk3 to oversteer...as I can't set it up to progressively lift off oversteer, despite trying the usual tricks to achieve it by, and I quote:

you can do it by deliberately altering the front/rear grip

I have tried higher rear tyre pressures, a big back ARB, R888s on the front, T1Rs on the rear, negative camber at the rear, toe in/out (tried both) at the rear.
I'm stumped...I want 30ish degrees of lift-off oversteer...and can't get it.
Maybe fitting snow tyres to the front would do it?
Or tea trays at the rear?

[am1w]

Many, many years ago when I was at school, I had two Bens in my class.

One Ben was a bully, was obnoctious, willfull and was disliked by one and all. Later in life he became a used car salesman. I had the misfortune of bumping into him some years back. He was even worse than I care to remember and looked the worse for wear.

The other Ben was the complete opposite and became a brilliant surgeon and a good friend.

Ying and Yang.