ABS in the snow

[Ess_Three]

I think thats the problem, people with winter tyres will be lulled into this false sense of security that they can drive faster when really the only time they can drive faster is in light snow, and even then you can only go as fast as the car in front (who probably won't have winter tyres).   I am happy keeping my all weather tyres on and just taking the extra care in driving. 

Anyone that flies about like a lunatic on the snow should be locked up.
For those of us that get lots of snow, every winter, winter tyres make the difference betweeen going somewhere, and going nowhere. I can't even get out of the driveway with summer tyres on, whereas with winter tyres on, I can find the traction to drive away.
If I keep summer tyres on, I stay at home...not through choice.

Not to mention the benefits of having the correct compound when it's just cold, not snowy...benefits in braking specifically.

I tried an ABS test last night, on a snowy/slushy open road..and had to hit the brakes damn hard to kick the ABS in...way harder than any sane driver would brake in the conditions if driving appropriately.

[Rolfe]

Thanks for all the helpful replies chaps.

It sounds like the last remaining barrier to peace-of-mind rests on braking stability.

If you have ESP you'll be mostly fine. It is still possible to get the back to step out, but I imagine it'll be difficult under most circumstances. Just keep doing what you're doing and life should be sweet.

Well, obviously I have ESP, because the GTi Mk VI has ESP.  As you say, braking stability is the concern.

I don't mind taking corners carefully.  I used to drive a motorbike and had full RAC/ACU training on that.  Staying alive when cornering was a big issue.  Even today, I have a bit of a reflex that says, "if you have to brake while you are cornering you have made a bad mistake".  I've tried the limits of the two-tyre set-up when cornering and I know how it behaves.  The solution is to corner as if you're still wearing summer tyres.

I had a bad experience when I was a teenager, back in the pleistocene, driving my Dad's car, and I didn't treat a snow-packed road up by Netherburn with the respect it deserved.  I totally lost traction and spun into the ditch.  I had to get a farmer to pull me out with his tractor, and I found I'd wrecked the car's radiator.  That was a learning experience and a half.  I do not want to find myself in that situation again.

come on lads, your doing something wrong if you cant drive with normal tyres in the snow.

Have you actually tried to drive the MkVI in thick snow, in the supplied tyres?  I did last year, and I can tell you it's a nightmare.  It won't go up any sort of hill, and if you get the drive wheels into piled snow for any reason, you're not going anywhere until you've got a shovel out.

I think thats the problem, people with winter tyres will be lulled into this false sense of security that they can drive faster when really the only time they can drive faster is in light snow, and even then you can only go as fast as the car in front (who probably won't have winter tyres).   I am happy keeping my all weather tyres on and just taking the extra care in driving. 

What "all-weather tyres"?  Aren't the supplied tyres summer tyres?  I thought they were, but I'm open to correction.  I have to say the performance of the Bridgestones last year would not have qualified as "all-weather".

Anyone that flies about like a lunatic on the snow should be locked up.

What he said.  "I don't want winter tyres because I might then behave like a certifiable lunatic" is a poor answer.

The difference in performance between the supplied tyres and winter tyres is phenomenal.  I'm absolutely gobsmacked by the difference, I have to say.  And the main effect of the difference is that I'm not getting stuck.

Last night, I was elected driver to get to choir practice.  The word has spread that I'm the one running around happily in the snow, while everyone else is scared witless.  This is in marked contrast to last year, when I was the one who couldn't even get up the hill to the carol concert in the school hall.  Coming back, the temperature was reading -13C, so instead of dropping my last passenger at the end of her road, I rashly said I'd go into the side road and drop her at her door.  The problem is there wasn't a decent turning area cleared, and I ended up having to do a sort of seven-point turn that had me in piled snow at each turn.  No problem.  The winter tyres just bit through whatever I set them at, and I got round and back out in good order.

It's not about "going faster", it's about going anywhere at all.

Right now I'm sitting at work having my coffee break, and it is snowing fit to bust outside.  The cars and the car park are disappearing under a white blanket.  It's already got to the point where last year I know I'd have had to beg for shovelling help and a push to get going, and actually, it would be AutoSocks time.  I'll let you know how it pans out, because right now, the more it snows (tiddley pom) the more it goes (tiddley pom) on snowing.  But I have at least some reasonable hope that I'll be able to get in the car and drive away.

For those of us that get lots of snow, every winter, winter tyres make the difference betweeen going somewhere, and going nowhere. I can't even get out of the driveway with summer tyres on, whereas with winter tyres on, I can find the traction to drive away.
If I keep summer tyres on, I stay at home...not through choice.

Not to mention the benefits of having the correct compound when it's just cold, not snowy...benefits in braking specifically.

What he said.  I'm not so far north and we don't get a lot of snow predictably, every winter.  Nevertheless it gets cold enough to justify winter tyres every winter, and then they're on if the snow does come.

I don't want to drive fast in this, I just want to be able to drive at all.  Today, it wouldn't be not getting out of my driveway that would be the issue, it would be not getting home.  I'm a convert.

Rolfe.

[Hyperspace]

Well, obviously I have ESP, because the GTi Mk VI has ESP.

Oops, didn't pick that up. I mean, obviously, else why would you be posting here... :embarassed:



Anyway, you say that you drive to the conditions, so it seems like you know what you're doing.

And if it does go all pear shaped, you have ESP as backup, so the issue of ABS in relation to braking stability is moot.

I'd say that pretty much settles it, unless you have more questions.

[Rolfe]

Well, I don't know, I still think the arguments that four winter tyres are the optimal set-up are pretty sound.  I could easily get another pair next year (and then it will be ridiculously mild for six months....).  I'm getting on great at the moment though.

I said I'd update on how I got on.  No trouble.  Some of the technicians had dug a bit of a track out of the car park, but there was still a lot of piled snow under my wheels where I was parked.  On the Bridgestones, I know I'd have needed them to dig my front wheels out before I got moving, but on the Icebears the car reversed out and onto the cleared area in good order.  It also drove straight over the place where I saw someone else stuck earlier, having to be dug out.  I don't know what happened to the people who left behind me....

You just need to turn on the TV to see what it was like in central Scotland today.  My wheels behaved like true gentlemen through the entire thing.  We were lucky that the road home wasn't blocked by idiots who had got stuck.  That's always a risk though.  The sooner everybody gets persuaded to change their tyres, and going out in winter in Scotland in summer tyres becomes as antisocial as drink-driving, the better.

Rolfe.

[Hyperspace]

Yes, four tyres are better than two, but we were discussing in terms of your particular setup.

Think of it like this - by having only two winter tyres you've removed a layer of defence (rear grip), so it now means you're relying on your last line of defence (ESP) as your main defence.

But at least you're fortunate enough to have a last line of defence, which is better than nothing.

So unless your feeling particularly cursed this winter, just buy the extra pair next year.

[Rolfe]

Had another amazing day today, driving around at -18C on snow and ice, and parking on piled snow.  Amazing grip.  Other people slithering around like lemons.

If I ask Andrew to fit four winter tyres next year, after this little lot, he's likely just to say "three bags full" and do it.

Rolfe.

[am1w]

If I ask Andrew to fit four winter tyres next year, after this little lot, he's likely just to say "three bags full" and do it.
Rolfe.

Why not just do it this year? You'll be twice as safe at least and infinitely more mobile.

[Hyperspace]

Judging from Rolfe's posts it sounds like it can wait 'til next winter.

[Rolfe]

I don't think it's possible to be infinitely, or even significantly, more mobile than I am at present.  And if there is a safety issue, I'm not convinced it's all that marked either.

I suspect the front tyres have taken me to 90%.  It's just a question of whether I want the other 10% or not, when I haven't found the limits of what I've got yet.

Rolfe.

[am1w]

Fair enough. Not worth the bother then. Hope Ben takes note!
Corrected my spelling error. Being a bit myopic and a rotten typist causes these spelling errors.