GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Daz Auto on 04 September 2016, 20:51
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I am interested to know why people here, on the GolfGTIforum, decided to buy a GTI instead of a Golf R?
I have looked at a few reviews and noticed that some of them concluded that the Golf R was a better choice.
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Company car tax was silly on the R so decided on a GTi which is cheaper than my current focus mk3
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Firstly I'm in no doubt that the 'R' is a great car, fast and grippy. But the GTI is also a great car if not as fast. It's not exactly slow, has better economy, has a tartan interior which is more fun and overall I think is a bit less, serious. I love mine and I'm very pleased with it. Would I change it for an 'R'? Tempting yes, the extra speed sounds exciting but for now I'm happy with my choice.
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The (standard/PP) GTI isn't particularly "hot" as a hot hatch these days - the Clubsport is where the MK7 GTI should have been to keep up with the Focus ST and Megane Cup in the BHP stakes, and the Civic R type wipes the floor with it.
Giving cheap access to the R via leases and (in the early days) very high GFVs for PCPers gave the GTI a right pasting - who it their right mind would want to pay £50-100pm more for a 220ps GTI than a 300ps Golf R?
If VW want to kill off the GTI as a serious hot hatch then they've been going the right way about it the last few years. The highest output variant of the Golf used to be a niche model, not any more (Clubsport S excepted).
The MK8 GTI should be packing at least 270ps to be taken seriously by anyone who isn't already a dedicated VAG fan on the lookout for their next hot hatch.
If the Focus RS remains as rare as hen's teeth, and if it had an interior worthy of a German motor, i'd probably be getting one of those next - if the residuals are healthy, the RRP looks an absolute bargain,
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Because I don't need 4wd where I live. The GTi pp has the great lsd and the same brakes as the R. It weighs 100kg less so will stop quicker and is significantly more economical day to day. The R has a better power to weight and faster off the line but I don't think there is enough to make driving enjoyment a decider.
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It depends what you want, why by a g60? Why not get a 1.8t mk2 or go the whole hog with a rallye?
Why by an rs500? An ordinary 3 door is rare too and can easily be as fast as the rs500
All depends on what you want. What you need is rarely what you want.
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Nobody has yet mentioned the styling, yes I have some agreement with all the other posts but for me the gti is better looking than the R or the new clubsport and that was my deciding factor.
Mine is the gti pp I have added a peddle box and now I have the package of looks, performance and economy as well as being an iconic model, I have wanted a gti for 30 years and maybe the kids of today will want an R in 20/30 years time, so I guess another very good reason would be which golf first give you that itch that one day you had to scratch.
The last thing I would say is that the gti gets up to speed limits so quickly that it's almost impossible to utilise all of the performance on offer, so with speed restrictions and speeding enforcement the benefits of a faster golf are a little diluted, I can see positives in owning a clubsport for exclusivity or an R For four wheel drive but I still prefer the gti, it's just a really good all rounder.
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As Monkeyhanger says, it's the value of the R that makes it an attractive buy/lease/PCP compared to the GTI when looking at it in the cold light of day.
The GTI PP is an incredibly underrated car and performs better than the 70bhp deficit would have you believe.
Traction is the R's great asset in a damp and soggy country.
I really liked my GTI and I really like my R too.
Both have quite different characters bearing in mind they're just variations on a theme.
If you don't use the upper end of the rev range then the GTI is as quick as an R so driving style and looks will play a part. Mind you, if you don't use the upper rev ranges you'd probably be better off with a stage 1 GTD (with decent tyres) than either of the hot petrols. At least you'd then be able to use 90% of the lower gear performance a lot more of the time and have lower running costs to boot.
Incidentally, I ran some insurance quotes for all three performance Golfs (ignoring the ClubSport) and there was only a few quid between them all.
I'd quite like a go in a ClubSport to see if it really does offer the best blend of GTI nimbleness and R performance.
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Nobody has yet mentioned the styling, yes I have some agreement with all the other posts but for me the gti is better looking than the R or the new clubsport and that was my deciding factor.
Mine is the gti pp I have added a peddle box and now I have the package of looks, performance and economy as well as being an iconic model, I have wanted a gti for 30 years and maybe the kids of today will want an R in 20/30 years time, so I guess another very good reason would be which golf first give you that itch that one day you had to scratch.
The last thing I would say is that the gti gets up to speed limits so quickly that it's almost impossible to utilise all of the performance on offer, so with speed restrictions and speeding enforcement the benefits of a faster golf are a little diluted, I can see positives in owning a clubsport for exclusivity or an R For four wheel drive but I still prefer the gti, it's just a really good all rounder.
Perfectly put and exactly why I bought a GTI.
Add in the relative rarity of the GTI compared to the R and there you have it.
Nobody in their right mind can criticise the R's abilities, but it's not for everybody.
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When I first bought my GTI PP, the Golf R was not available. There was not even any confirmation of the Golf R being released at the time. I absolutely love my GTI PP and to date it is the best car I have ever owned. This is going on the history of Civic Type-R's and other hot hatches. In photos, the styling of the Golf R when it was released was a lot more understated and ordinary looking than the GTI from most angles, I for one was unsure of the styling. However in the flesh the Golf R looks fantastic. The Golf GTI PP has great performance and the e-Diff is something else, it's like the car is on rails. But there are still times when I get tramping in wet weather pulling away from a junction and feel there could be more grip. This is mainly due to the bridgestone tyres VW fits to the wheels and can be fixed to a degree with different tyres. But I still feel the Golf R will provide greater traction on the same tyres (Bridgestones) with it being AWD. Also I feel ready for a change and upgrade in power.
I have always wanted to own a Golf R since seeing the MK5 and MK6 variants but it was just too expensive and out of reach financially. Don't get me wrong my GTI PP is a fantastic car but I am on the 3 year mark of ownership and feel ready to try a Golf R. When the MK8 GTI is released I may go back to owning a GTI as it is such a great car and I would prompt anyone to own one. It just I want to see what all the hype is about the Golf R and be able to say I have owned one.... Which I will be able to do in just a few short weeks as my Golf R on order, is at Emden right now waiting to come across the channel to the UK. :smiley:
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I think the GTD is the best looking of the bunch - best standard wheels, no lipstick in the front light lenses. I'd rather have a boxed GTD than a standard GTI. There seems far more resilience in the GTDs lump for stretching it further than stock than either the GTI or Rs engine.
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I wouldn't buy a gtd for several reasons, petrol engines are nicer to drive, the red stripe would be a must, gtd is what the driver used to be, its almost a gti, but not quite. The only thing I like more about the gtd is the exhaust exit is how the gti always was, but now with a pipe either side, there is no reason for that
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I wouldn't buy a gtd for several reasons, petrol engines are nicer to drive, the red stripe would be a must, gtd is what the driver used to be, its almost a gti, but not quite. The only thing I like more about the gtd is the exhaust exit is how the gti always was, but now with a pipe either side, there is no reason for that
I'd be the same. I had a MK6 GTD and it was a nice, very capable car but I had no love for it. Hated the diesel clatter especially on cold mornings. I was parking in an underground carpark at the time so that amplified it! It wasn't even particularly economical to compensate.
The rear end of the MK7 GTD is very plain... VW made no effort at all with the rear valence or the exhausts (pea shooters). It could be a 1.6 blue motion... I'm not a huge fan of the GTI wheelbarrow exhaust setup either but at least it's different.
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You don't need a cheap Lease deal or GFV to make a car right for you, you also don't need much BHP to go fast either. Some of the best Hot Hatch cars, and still the best over the last 10 years have way less BHP than the Golf R or the Civic or the Focus for that matter. Its about how they perform as a whole, compared to 0-60/0-100 times.
If you want/need/desire 4WD and 300BHP then the R ticks the box its a perfect car for this, and better than the other options in the Audi range, or other manufactures at that price point.
In 2014 (and the same now )I wanted a VAQ diff, as light a car as possible, manual, I also didn't want the brakes biased LSD system in the R, not a fan of using brakes to go forward. So a 3 door Golf GTI PP manual was the right choice FOR ME.
If you are thinking of getting a R or GTI no amount of PCP equations or GFV figures will make a car make sense, other wise we will all just drive cars on the cheapest monthlys. No amount of people on a forum will help either. If people want the R its great news, go and get the car you want im sure you would love it to bits its a great car, others have different interests and ideas of what works for them...
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I preferred the looks of the GTI. I wasn't even looking for a golf and saw a white one in the showroom. Loved the white with red accents and tartan seats.
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Having had a PP for 2 years and my R for 1 year my personal opinion is that the R is a much better car in every way except the look of the car. The front of the PP with its Red stripe and fog light bumper is much better looking than the Rs grey accent and ugly black grills - required for the extra cooling the R needs, the colour of the R needs to be carefully chosen in my opinion or it can look really ugly. Interior colour is a personal thing but I like both standard colourways equally.
On the road the 4 wheel drive R feels much more solid and planted - it is heavier - and saying goodbye to the PPs front tramp on a spirited getaway is a blessing. The extra grip round corners inspires so much more confidence in the R.
Finally my R was over 15 seconds a lap faster round Bedford under the same sort of weather conditions than my PP-
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I wouldn't buy a gtd for several reasons, petrol engines are nicer to drive, the red stripe would be a must, gtd is what the driver used to be, its almost a gti, but not quite. The only thing I like more about the gtd is the exhaust exit is how the gti always was, but now with a pipe either side, there is no reason for that
The exhaust positioning is one of my favourite things on the GTI. Very distinctive and sets it apart from the GTD which could very well be a lesser model from the rear.
Regarding wheels, the first thing everybody commented on when I took delivery of my car was how fantastic the Austin alloys looked.
Each to their own :whistle:
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In November my GTD will be replaced with an R and hopping over the GTI
One of my frustrations with the GTD was the getaway and though improved with better tyres, the winter is closing in again and feathering my acceleration off the line was something wanted to avoid this time around.
Looked at another GTD or a GTI and then the R and it really was down to the 4 Motion which swayed it for me and for better getaways as once up and running my GTD is more than stable and accelerates really really well in the mid range and imagine that translates to the GTI equally.
Of course once made that decision there is the increased power that makes it a true hot hatch.
The GTD and GTI are great cars and would definitely been happy if had to select either as quite sad to see the GTD go if honest but the R ticked a big box for me in getaway traction and sealed the deal
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You don't need a cheap Lease deal or GFV to make a car right for you, you also don't need much BHP to go fast either. Some of the best Hot Hatch cars, and still the best over the last 10 years have way less BHP than the Golf R or the Civic or the Focus for that matter. Its about how they perform as a whole, compared to 0-60/0-100 times.
If you want/need/desire 4WD and 300BHP then the R ticks the box its a perfect car for this, and better than the other options in the Audi range, or other manufactures at that price point.
In 2014 (and the same now )I wanted a VAQ diff, as light a car as possible, manual, I also didn't want the brakes biased LSD system in the R, not a fan of using brakes to go forward. So a 3 door Golf GTI PP manual was the right choice FOR ME.
If you are thinking of getting a R or GTI no amount of PCP equations or GFV figures will make a car make sense, other wise we will all just drive anything that was the on the cheapest monthly. No amount of people on a forum will help either. If people want the R its great news, go and get the car you want im sure you would love it to bits, others have different interests and ideas of what works for them...
My two previous cars were 170 BHP Quattro and it was fine for me and if 4Motion was even an option on the GTD I would have likely selected it, truly.
Have real 5 door need now and really dislike the Sportsback and have really loved my GTD so when weighed up what missed most was the 4WD and the car really like is the MK7 it left me with the R being my only real choice and just taking the extra BHP and seeing how much a difference it makes to me, so its sort of an experiment to.
If VW introduce a GTD - Bi Turbo 4 Motion next time out imagine be straight onto that
Its horses for courses, and its staying with a Golf and wanting 4 WD that was my decider
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I think the GTD is the best looking of the bunch - best standard wheels, no lipstick in the front light lenses.
Obviously I'm a bit biased, but agree with this. I don't particularly like either of the wheel options for the GTI (I would choose santiagos over austins if I had to), and not a fan of the single exhaust pipes either side. If I could afford the petrol and/or didn't have such a long commute then I'd pick an R over a GTI, especially since they've recently been given parity spec wise (nav now standard, etc)
Hated the diesel clatter especially on cold mornings. I was parking in an underground carpark at the time so that amplified it! It wasn't even particularly economical to compensate. The rear end of the MK7 GTD is very plain... VW made no effort at all with the rear valence or the exhausts (pea shooters). It could be a 1.6 blue motion...
Diesel clatter is barely noticeable to me with the soundaktor on normal, especially compared to my previous Mk7 fiesta 1.4TDCI which made a right racket. Also I kind of like that the GTD is understated a bit looks wise ... attracts less attention.
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On the road the 4 wheel drive R feels much more solid and planted - it is heavier - and saying goodbye to the PPs front tramp on a spirited getaway is a blessing. The extra grip round corners inspires so much more confidence in the R.
Finally my R was over 15 seconds a lap faster round Bedford under the same sort of weather conditions than my PP-
Just a note, you don't need either more weight or AWD to generate more grip. AWD is great for traction (ie. launching or accelerating out of a corner) but nothing to do with actual grip or carrying more speed around bends. In fact, the way the 4Motion works (no center diff between fronts and rears, no lsd) all is good until you drive at or past the "limit". Then it will at best be slower (just braking the spinning wheel) or even dangerous if wrong assumptions are made (ie. try to correct with more throttle) compared to a 2WD car. It's more of a "point and shoot / slow in - fast out" than "throw it around as fast as you dare" car. Great for every day driving but not the ideal/quickest solution for a track. That been said, the difference between GTI and R on a track is primarily down to a tighter suspension and stronger engine (in the R) than to the 4Motion.
See how a properly set-up and equally powerful FWD like the Clubsport (or the Cupra) are more planted and take corners even faster than an R. A tighter suspension set-up, quicker steering, better dynamics with "neutralized" behaviour (almost 0 understeer) and of-course the e-lsd are what actually make a car go faster/drive better under normal conditions (drag-racing excluded obviously).
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If VW introduce a GTD - Bi Turbo 4 Motion next time out imagine be straight onto that
I think you would have a lot of company! Can't see a reason why this car hasn't happened.
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I was interested in both, I'd always wanted a GTI since I was 17 but never had the opportunity until 15 years later. I looked at the R and was interested but ultimately I preferred the GTI due to:
- Cost. The GTI is cheaper to buy outright, the VED is lower, the fuel economy is better and it's cheaper to insure. The GTI obviously isn't cheap but adding the options I would have wanted as well as the extra running costs meant I couldn't justify the extra cost of an R
- Looks. The R is very stylish but the red accents on the GTI give it a bit extra and internally I much prefer the standard plaid seats - I'd have had to pay for leather seats if I'd gone for the R as I don't like the standard ones and that would have upped the cost even further. I also prefer the front end with the fog lights. The R has a very understated look which I like but I just prefer the all round look of the GTI
- Exclusivity! Not massively important but I see lots of Rs and GTDs and very few GTIs. I think in 3 months of owning mine I have actually seen more GTEs than GTIs.
The R is no doubt a fab car and I would like one in the future, just wasn't the right car for me this time.
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Had a Mk6 and Mk7 GTD, both fantastic cars and not a bad word to say about them.
Went for a R this year and have to say its superb, its a simple choice, high miles, GTD, low miles (or more money to spend on fuel) the R.
I skipped the GTI not for being a bad car but for not a lot more you get 4wd and an extra 70bhp.
Isn't it great VW got the model range right, none are bad, far from it, and two special editions to boot.
Could be worse.....
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... saying goodbye to the PPs front tramp on a spirited getaway is a blessing. The extra grip round corners inspires so much more confidence in the R.
Finally my R was over 15 seconds a lap faster round Bedford under the same sort of weather conditions than my PP-
What tyres did you have on the GTI? I had tramping on my GTD until I changed from the original Bridgestones to Goodyear AS2s.
What tyres were you using around the race track?
Grip is provided by the tyres. That grip has 3 functions - acceleration, cornering and braking. 4 wheel drive helps with acceleration. Especially at slower speeds where the acceleration grip is an issue with front wheel drive cars.
On fastlaps.com - Bedford Autodrome West Circuit 1.8m - Mk6 GTI at 1:33.90 and a Mk7 R at 1:26.10
I'm sure the Mk7 GTI PP would be a few seconds faster than the Mk6. So the difference on that 1.8 mile track is more likely to be 5 or 6 seconds.
On the 12.9 mile Nurburgring the times are 8:14 for the R and 8:29 for the GTI. So a 15 second difference.
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I loved my Mk6 GTi and the R we have now is awesome. Do I love it though as much as the Mk6? I'm not sure I do, purely because it looks too mundane to me. Nobody really knows I'm driving a 300bhp, 4 wheel drive beast. At least the GTi looks fast, even if it isn't and I sort of want my fast Golf to look fast.
I'm going to be a bit controversial here. I'd now have a Focus RS over a Golf R - I just think it looks awesome.
I'll be even more controversial. I think I'd even have a Mustang. I pass one every morning and that's an awesome looking thing too.
Sorry - just my opinion.
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See how a properly set-up and equally powerful FWD like the Clubsport (or the Cupra) are more planted and take corners even faster than an R. A tighter suspension set-up, quicker steering, better dynamics with "neutralized" behaviour (almost 0 understeer) and of-course the e-lsd are what actually make a car go faster/drive better under normal conditions (drag-racing excluded obviously).
There is a Cupra Sub 8 which will do the Nurburgring in 7:58. As mentioned above the Golf R has a time of 8:14.
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I loved my Mk6 GTi and the R we have now is awesome. Do I love it though as much as the Mk6? I'm not sure I do, purely because it looks too mundane to me. Nobody really knows I'm driving a 300bhp, 4 wheel drive beast. At least the GTi looks fast, even if it isn't and I sort of want my fast Golf to look fast.
I'm going to be a bit controversial here. I'd now have a Focus RS over a Golf R - I just think it looks awesome.
I'll be even more controversial. I think I'd even have a Mustang. I pass one every morning and that's an awesome looking thing too.
Sorry - just my opinion.
The GTI is a fast car, it's just not as fast as cars that are faster. The same can be said for the R. :whistle:
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Finally my R was over 15 seconds a lap faster round Bedford under the same sort of weather conditions than my PP-
15sec is a lot, it's less than a sec at Blyton park 1.6 mile circuit. Taking the larger Bedford GT circuit 3miles and adding eagerness in the claim still doesn't bring you to 15sec. As others have said it's only 15 sec on the Ring, which is 20km. Perhaps your substantial difference is due to seat time at the track? Which is normally greater than bhp I find
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I'm probably in the minority in that I'm not that arsed how fast my car is.
Where can you drive fast these days unless you do track days?
I just like the look, inside and out, of my GTI :smiley:
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I'm probably in the minority in that I'm not that arsed how fast my car is.
Where can you drive fast these days unless you do track days?
I just like the look, inside and out, of my GTI :smiley:
I agree with Kalimon. I live near Southampton and unless you get well out into Hampshire countryside, you cannot drive fast around here - too much traffic. So the R's extra power would be wasted. I had a BMW 335i tuned to well over 400bhp and using anything like that car's full performance was just plain stupid around here.
I find the GTI.......brisk........but easily fast enough. It's cheaper than the R, a bit more economical, and I think looks better - I really dislike the R's exhaust pipes. Oh, and we never get snow so I don't need 4WD.
I suppose it's good that VW offer such a choice of variants; they're all very, very good cars.
Bubba.
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There is a Cupra Sub 8 which will do the Nurburgring in 7:58. As mentioned above the Golf R has a time of 8:14.
Yes I know :wink:
As far as lap times go, the Clubsport and the Cupra are very close (check Hockenheimring and Sachsenring published lap times) as they are based on an almost identical, more track focused set-up than any other VAG hot-hatch. Which is why they top every test within the group in terms of lap times.
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Oh, and we never get snow so I don't need 4WD.
You really don't need 4WD for snow. Google search 4WD myths.
From one of the articles...
"Before you start flaming, I'm not anti-AWD. Rather, I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.
However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop."
Edit: Everybody should read this one - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/the-myth-of-all-wheel-drive-and-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/the-myth-of-all-wheel-drive-and-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/)
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Oh, and we never get snow so I don't need 4WD.
You really don't need 4WD for snow. Google search 4WD myths.
From one of the articles...
"Before you start flaming, I'm not anti-AWD. Rather, I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.
However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop."
Edit: Everybody should read this one - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/the-myth-of-all-wheel-drive-and-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/the-myth-of-all-wheel-drive-and-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/)
Interesting article, thanks for posting it🙂
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4wd can improve cornering speeds on loose surfaces and in low traction situations, but only with techniques that allow it to help, which aren't safe on the road, a closed rally stage is a different matter, you get the car sliding and use the cars power and traction of the 4wd to pull it in to the apex of the corner. It works in motorsport but not on open public roads.
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4wd can improve cornering speeds on loose surfaces and in low traction situations, but only with techniques that allow it to help, which aren't safe on the road, a closed rally stage is a different matter, you get the car sliding and use the cars power and traction of the 4wd to pull it in to the apex of the corner. It works in motorsport but not on open public roads.
This is good run of posts as its important that anyone selecting AWD knows the reality of what getting on normal roads.
1. Getaway will be seamless with no tramping and that's in the wet too
2. There is a marginal sense of greater security when pushing through lanes etc but my present GTD feels pretty secure also, so this alone is not a reason to go AWD
3. The AWD will help a little to get and keep moving in snow from stationary
4. The AWD on standard tyres is no better than any conventional FWD car in snow when moving along, you will slide as much as anyone due to the basic physics of tyres grip to the snow, you could have 8WD on standard tyres and it would make no difference.
These comments are from 6 years driving Quattro which took in the last serious snow we had and is pretty much the fact.
The single thing that frustrates me the most is the having to feather the acceleration to avoid tramp which even though improved on better tyres is still an issue in the wet. Like to see my gap and go without worrying going to be standing still while car finds its grip.
If AWD was available on GTD would have likely chosen it
So do not select AWD on this type of car for snow or greatly increased handling, you only select AWD if getaway is a real issue for you. Winter tyres and Chains would be better investment on FWD car.
For me, everything you read and see on the R points to a special package so its a 3 year experiment to see how the whole experience of driving this next level of car and resolving my biggest present issue is worth the extra £. Basically scratching the itch
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Interesting article, thanks for posting it🙂
I also post on the Audi Sport Forum. I was researching a car for my wife. Like many I thought she may have been safer getting a 4WD. Some of the forum discussions ended in arguments and me being called an idiot. :shocked: I still post there on the subject, but now I just post links to articles and videos. I also ask for articles and videos (which are not adverts) that show how 'safe' 4WD is on snow and ice. There are none! That ends all arguments before they begin :evil:
I can tell that some people over there still don't like me posting that quattro is no safer. Maybe they are in Audi sales?
Winter 2 years ago, there was just 1 really frosty weekend. The local garage was full of crashed 4X4s. I often explain it this way - 4WD will help get you up a hill, but it will not help you getting down it.
On winter tyres, both our cars go really well, but more importantly stop really well in winter conditions. I worry less about my wife driving in winter. What concerns me now is other drivers in 4x4 crashing into her :angry:
Here is a good video on the subject of 4WD in the snow...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow)
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Just visit northern Scandinavia in winter and count the 4x4s, you're unlikely to need more than the fingers on one hand. They just drive regular cars like us but with winter tyres.
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Nice, I'm rather surprised really to find out that the average forum misconception (or plain ignorance) about what the AWD is and how it works (especially Haldex impementations) that keeps the myths strong about better grip/handling is not strong here. By my experience in many forums this is not usually the case. Still remember an epic thread where someone was swearing he could feel his Haldex Quattro pulling him to the apex once he had overdone it, when everybody was trying to explain to him that was the XDS/ESC intervening and that in the described scenario it just wasn't mechanically or physically possible to get any benefits from the 4 wheels being driven (quite the opposite). Still not sure he's convinced as of today...
To a few Audi owners' defence, I have read some of the best arguments and technical discussions against the myth of AWD offering better handlind/cornering right in Audi forums. It's so much more important when that comes from actual owners.
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So do not select AWD on this type of car for snow or greatly increased handling, you only select AWD if getaway is a real issue for you. Winter tyres and Chains would be better investment on FWD car.
For me, everything you read and see on the R points to a special package so its a 3 year experiment to see how the whole experience of driving this next level of car and resolving my biggest present issue is worth the extra £. Basically scratching the itch
Agree. AWD is a performance feature and not a safety feature.
It is disappointing that the Mk7 GTD and GTI still suffer from tramping. I though the PP might have resolved the issue, but apparently not. I have had a few big moments where tramping nearly caused me to cause an accident.
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I don't mind the front wheel spin potential from the GTi, you just drive to the conditions and consider your inputs to the throttle. This has been a feature of Fwd hot hatches since the mk1 GTi.
I have the rwd angle covered with other cars, I have owned sports 4wd and driven quite a few others, for the most part it is point 'n squirt requiring little skill without much feedback, it gets a bit dull after a while.
Each to their own, but I quite like the fact you still have to drive a Fwd GTi well to get the most out of it.
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It is disappointing that the Mk7 GTD and GTI still suffer from tramping. I though the PP might have resolved the issue, but apparently not. I have had a few big moments where tramping nearly caused me to cause an accident.
I can only assume very bad roads and average tyres and rainy weather ? Most of my past cars were FWD and near or above 200bhp and since a couple of weeks living with the Clubsport which has even more power, yet I've never had a problem putting the power down and launching into roundabouts etc. If it was raining I'd just modulate the throttle more carefully and accelerate smoother to 2nd gear (something a lot of people forget when it comes to powerful FWDs) and no problems even with the Bridgestones which are merely adequate for the car's potential.
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I don't mind the front wheel spin potential from the GTi, you just drive to the conditions and consider your inputs to the throttle. This has been a feature of Fwd hot hatches since the mk1 GTi.
I have the rwd angle covered with other cars, I have owned sports 4wd and driven quite a few others, for the most part it is point 'n squirt requiring little skill without much feedback, it gets a bit dull after a while.
Each to their own, but I quite like the fact you still have to drive a Fwd GTi well to get the most out of it.
The annoying thing is that I can get in my wife's 1.6L 105hp A3 - stop at a junction - see a gap - mash the accelerator - don't have to worry about the car tramping.
My wife also drives my car regulary. I doubt if she would try the above manoeuvre. But...
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I can only assume very bad roads and average tyres and rainy weather ? Most of my past cars were FWD and near or above 200bhp and since a couple of weeks living with the Clubsport which has even more power, yet I've never had a problem putting the power down and launching into roundabouts etc. If it was raining I'd just modulate the throttle more carefully and accelerate smoother to 2nd gear (something a lot of people forget when it comes to powerful FWDs) and no problems even with the Bridgestones which are merely adequate for the car's potential.
The first time was in the dry at traffic lights. I was turning right through on-coming traffic. The car hopped on the spot for a full second, until I backed off the accelerator. Luckily I still had room to go. I had never heard off or experienced tramping before. That was on the original Bridgestones. When the front tryes were done I gave away the rear tyres and got a full set of new tyres. Hated those Bridgestones.
The second time was at a very busy junction in the wet. I'm not sure which tyres were on the car. Initially the car slowly hopped across the road. Very unexpected and dangerous! This time I realised what was happening and started pumping (or modulating if you prefer) the accelerator looking for grip/acceleration.
Other times have been at traffic lights much to my embarrassment. Nothing worse that just sitting there while the Fiesta beside you takes off and the BMW behind probably thinks you're stalled :embarrassed:
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Back on topic...
Thank you very much to everyone that has posted. After watching and reading some reviews I was conflicted about which car to buy next. The opinions of actual owners have helped me a lot. As I tend to keep my cars for around 6 years I want to try and make the best decision.
I don't need a GTD again - doing a lot less miles now. Though I agree with those who say it is the best looking.
I don't need a Golf R - for numerous reasons. Though 4WD would be nice for wet performance and no risk of tramping.
The GTI PP will (probably) be my next car. It will be a nice jump in performance for me. I'm sure I will learn to live with the standard alloys, the tartan seats and the lipstic on the front :rolleyes: (No offence is meant to those who have those options - I'm just not a fan.)
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Back on topic...
Thank you very much to everyone that has posted. After watching and reading some reviews I was conflicted about which car to buy next. The opinions of actual owners have helped me a lot. As I tend to keep my cars for around 6 years I want to try and make the best decision.
I don't need a GTD again - doing a lot less miles now. Though I agree with those who say it is the best looking.
I don't need a Golf R - for numerous reasons. Though 4WD would be nice for wet performance and no risk of tramping.
The GTI PP will (probably) be my next car. It will be a nice jump in performance for me. I'm sure I will learn to live with the standard alloys, the tartan seats and the lipstic on the front :rolleyes: (No offence is meant to those who have those options - I'm just not a fan.)
My mileage dropped significantly from when got the GTD so its not needed for that now but still think its the best car of the three for combining everything you would need equally.
So nearly went for the GTI PP myself it really was the AWD that swung it in selecting the R.
To be honest there never has been a wrong decision on the performance Golfs, its just selecting what you value most at the extreme, performance or economy
So to select the one in the middle leaves you a really fine car that you would happily live 6 years with - I could easily go another three years on my GTD if did not have to exchange
Now chose the car, you now have the specification to choose, the next minefield :wink:
If was choosing GTI for myself it would be CSG, and was little gutted it was not available on the R will start the ball rolling there
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Only owned my mk7 gti since last Wednesday and coming from a mk2 focus rs the golf R seems like the logical choice but I chose the gti because I like the heritage, checked seats, prefered the looks and I decided i wanted something quiet and comfortable but quick yet I could fully use the power as when flooring the focus it was crazy fast yet you could hardly really use the power. A massive winner for the gti was the fact a lot of golf R's are being stolen which was something that spoilt owning the focus whereas the gti seems to get left alone in comparison
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Only owned my mk7 gti since last Wednesday and coming from a mk2 focus rs the golf R seems like the logical choice but I chose the gti because I like the heritage, checked seats, prefered the looks and I decided i wanted something quiet and comfortable but quick yet I could fully use the power as when flooring the focus it was crazy fast yet you could hardly really use the power. A massive winner for the gti was the fact a lot of golf R's are being stolen which was something that spoilt owning the focus whereas the gti seems to get left alone in comparison
[/quot
You may want to consider a pedal box for the gti, it does transform the car if you like a relationship between pedal and throttle response.
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Nice, I'm rather surprised really to find out that the average forum misconception (or plain ignorance) about what the AWD is and how it works (especially Haldex impementations) that keeps the myths strong about better grip/handling is not strong here. By my experience in many forums this is not usually the case. Still remember an epic thread where someone was swearing he could feel his Haldex Quattro pulling him to the apex once he had overdone it, when everybody was trying to explain to him that was the XDS/ESC intervening and that in the described scenario it just wasn't mechanically or physically possible to get any benefits from the 4 wheels being driven (quite the opposite). Still not sure he's convinced as of today...
To a few Audi owners' defence, I have read some of the best arguments and technical discussions against the myth of AWD offering better handlind/cornering right in Audi forums. It's so much more important when that comes from actual owners.
And yet, of all the cars I've had over the years, the only ones that could get out of my road when it was icy and/or snow were quattro Audi's and the Golf R. Which are both AWD. All the FWD cars couldn't. And I didn't even bother with the RWD cars :laugh: So, despite what you're saying, I'd have to side with the 'ignorant' members of this forum :wink:
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Nice, I'm rather surprised really to find out that the average forum misconception (or plain ignorance) about what the AWD is and how it works (especially Haldex impementations) that keeps the myths strong about better grip/handling is not strong here. By my experience in many forums this is not usually the case. Still remember an epic thread where someone was swearing he could feel his Haldex Quattro pulling him to the apex once he had overdone it, when everybody was trying to explain to him that was the XDS/ESC intervening and that in the described scenario it just wasn't mechanically or physically possible to get any benefits from the 4 wheels being driven (quite the opposite). Still not sure he's convinced as of today...
To a few Audi owners' defence, I have read some of the best arguments and technical discussions against the myth of AWD offering better handlind/cornering right in Audi forums. It's so much more important when that comes from actual owners.
And yet, of all the cars I've had over the years, the only ones that could get out of my road when it was icy and/or snow were quattro Audi's and the Golf R. Which are both AWD. All the FWD cars couldn't. And I didn't even bother with the RWD cars :laugh: So, despite what you're saying, I'd have to side with the 'ignorant' members of this forum :wink:
The AWD is definitely good at getting you moving where others struggle and in some cases fail
The AWD is however not much use when up and running on snow and you lock up, you skid as much and as far as anyone else and that's the real point that needs to be understood.
The AWD on standard tyres is not giving you anymore traction under braking and maneuvering than any other car.
My Quattro got me out of the company car park which was, and without exaggeration, due to the sloped nature, littered with discarded BMW's
So the getaway in wet and if we do have snow the ability to get moving are the definite plus factors
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Αnd yet, of all the cars I've had over the years, the only ones that could get out of my road when it was icy and/or snow were quattro Audi's and the Golf R. Which are both AWD. All the FWD cars couldn't. And I didn't even bother with the RWD cars :laugh: So, despite what you're saying, I'd have to side with the 'ignorant' members of this forum :wink:
You are confusing grip and handling with traction. Totally different and I couldn't agree more that any AWD is great for exactly what you described, ie: traction and getting out/setting off slippery roads. My comment was about the common misconception that AWD gives grip and makes you corner faster (as suggested in some earlier post a few pages back).
Don't side with the wrong team until you are sure what we are talking about first :wink:
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And yet, of all the cars I've had over the years, the only ones that could get out of my road when it was icy and/or snow were quattro Audi's and the Golf R. Which are both AWD. All the FWD cars couldn't. And I didn't even bother with the RWD cars :laugh: So, despite what you're saying, I'd have to side with the 'ignorant' members of this forum :wink:
You could learn something here and save yourself some money - watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA)
Did anyone try your road on winter tyres? I'll bet they would have no problem either. Even if they had rear wheel drive.
As I said before, 4WD will help you get up a hill on snow or ice. It won't help you coming back down that hill.
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I can categorically say I am sold on winter tyres. Bought a set of continental winter contacts for my 330d last year with 18inch wheels and the dealers swaps them over and stores the other set.
we didn't have much snow but last year when we did, I did a 30 mph stand on the brakes stop on a back road on snow and there was no skid, lockup or slide. The confidence they inspire is way better than 4wd IMO.
I would take my RWD BMW with winter tyres over any 4wd with normal tyres, and I have run a TT Quattro in Scotland before and my BMW is way better on snow.
Not only on snow, they push much more water out of the way on dual carriageways as they have much deeper treads. Handling suffers a bit as they are softer compound and you can feel the flex in the tyre but hey ho.
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An epic vid where the Beemer (!) rescues the snow stuck R (!) (both on all-season tyres) :grin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd693LSdNOY
Winter tyres are the single best thing there is when it comes to driving over ice/snow.
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Αnd yet, of all the cars I've had over the years, the only ones that could get out of my road when it was icy and/or snow were quattro Audi's and the Golf R. Which are both AWD. All the FWD cars couldn't. And I didn't even bother with the RWD cars :laugh: So, despite what you're saying, I'd have to side with the 'ignorant' members of this forum :wink:
You are confusing grip and handling with traction. Totally different and I couldn't agree more that any AWD is great for exactly what you described, ie: traction and getting out/setting off slippery roads. My comment was about the common misconception that AWD gives grip and makes you corner faster (as suggested in some earlier post a few pages back).
Don't side with the wrong team until you are sure what we are talking about first :wink:
Nope, not confusing grip and handling with traction. Just said that AWD is the only way I can get out of my road when its icy and or/snow. Never tried winter tyres tbf, but I don't think it would have made that much difference tbh. I wouldn't know about cornering at high speeds a la track style as I don't take my cars onto the track, so I'll take your word for it in terms of cornering on a race track.
All I know is that when its raining I would trust the AWD of a Golf R over the RWD of my current car - therefore that makes AWD better in tricky conditions IMO. :smiley:
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Slightly off topic but Matchboy, why the change from Cayman to TTS ?
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Nope, not confusing grip and handling with traction. Just said that AWD is the only way I can get out of my road when its icy and or/snow. Never tried winter tyres tbf, but I don't think it would have made that much difference tbh. I wouldn't know about cornering at high speeds a la track style as I don't take my cars onto the track, so I'll take your word for it in terms of cornering on a race track.
All I know is that when its raining I would trust the AWD of a Golf R over the RWD of my current car - therefore that makes AWD better in tricky conditions IMO. :smiley:
Getting out of your icy road is purely a matter of traction. AWD is naturally better at that and it'd take a fool to disagree. But my post was about grip/handling/hard cornering and that AWD, contrary to what some still believe today, is not helping any of those more than FWD. So I don't see how your traction related experience qualifies as a reply to grip/handling debates like the one you quoted in your initial reply. Hope it's clearer now.
The rainy conditions AWD drive needs further clarification. Yes you'll accelerate quicker/smoother if you are somewhat hard on the throttle but you won't brake or corner faster than your tyres allow. The later is a common (and dangerous) feeling several AWD drivers have, especially when driving lower than the car's grip limits, not realizing it is just this fact that keeps them on the road and not the 2 additional driven wheels.
By the way, the difference winter tyres make is indeed huge. If you ever get the chance to try a car with them on you'll see what everyone is about.
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Another thing to note is winter tyres are not just for snow and ice but when the temperatures drop too.
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Unless you're in extreme conditions, cooler temperatures have very little effect on most tyres for the road, winter tyres will be a softer compound to provide more grip not to generate heat in them to soften them further to generate grip. Road tyres mainly suffer because they get too hot when you're working them hard not because they're too cold, rallying on snow and ice it is surprisingly easy to overheat tyres. Cooler temperatures aren't an issue unless you're on track day/race tyres, cut slicks are used on the monte carlo rally and that's held in January, well up in the alps, much of it on icy roads.
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So everyone in the motoring press etc is wrong when they say temperatures under 4 or 5° affects tyres?? Freezing temperatures makes the rubber on tyres hard so they are far less effective. Of course you should always change your driving style to suit the road conditions but your tyres also play a massive part.
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Previously owned a MK6 GTi, wanted a Golf with DSG & 4wd as the car will be modified and FWD/Manual just doesn't cut it as I found out with the MK6 once it was running Revo Stage 2.
Very pleased at nearly 3 months ownership and no regrets not getting another Gti :cool:
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Even in the winter, after driving, your tyres will normally feel warm to touch. The softer compound used in winter tyres is there to improve grip due to the roads generally beeg slippery when it s cooler due to water or snow/ice not because of the temperature itself, normally.
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Even in the winter, after driving, your tyres will normally feel warm to touch. The softer compound used in winter tyres is there to improve grip due to the roads generally beeg slippery when it s cooler due to water or snow/ice not because of the temperature itself, normally.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say there.
According to everything I have read - winter tyres will perform better below 7C than summer tyres. They are even supposed to wear better below that temperature.
Below 3C there is a significant improvement in stopping distances with winter tyres. Below 3C the compound in summer tyres will not warm up enough to provide the grip that is usually available.
Then there is the advantage provided by all the extra sipes which allow the tyre to grip the road surface much better at lower temperatures.
There are plenty of articles on the internet on the subject.
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I don't think we've had enough cold weather over the last few winters for me to justify the outlay of Winter tyres - there were just 16 days last winter where the temp dipped below 5C for me in the North East.
I did change my tyres from Bridgestone RE050A to Michelin PSS after my R's back end went a little doing 20mph around a medium sized roundabout at 9C dampened only with the morning dew.
If you care at all about grip and have Bridgestones, you need to get those swapped out - whether you have 4wd or 2wd. sh!te tyres won't be saved by 4wd, although it will stop you tramping.
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What do the MY17 performance Golfs get trodden with? surely not the Bridgestone still?
I would have no choice but to stay with the tyres it comes with, so if still Bridgestone then pretty glad got the R as would hate to have t live with them again on a GTI/GTD till first change over, the tramping definitely tainted the experience until better tyres softened the impact if not removed issue entirely.
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Getting out of your icy road is purely a matter of traction. AWD is naturally better at that and it'd take a fool to disagree. But my post was about grip/handling/hard cornering and that AWD, contrary to what some still believe today, is not helping any of those more than FWD. So I don't see how your traction related experience qualifies as a reply to grip/handling debates like the one you quoted in your initial reply. Hope it's clearer now.
The rainy conditions AWD drive needs further clarification. Yes you'll accelerate quicker/smoother if you are somewhat hard on the throttle but you won't brake or corner faster than your tyres allow. The later is a common (and dangerous) feeling several AWD drivers have, especially when driving lower than the car's grip limits, not realizing it is just this fact that keeps them on the road and not the 2 additional driven wheels.
By the way, the difference winter tyres make is indeed huge. If you ever get the chance to try a car with them on you'll see what everyone is about.
Fair enough, I probably didn't read your post correctly :laugh: I was only referring to my own experience of different cars getting out of my own road.
I certainly think driving style has a lot to do with it - every winter I see t0ssers hacking round cause they're in an AWD car thinking they're safe, and you're correct to say they're not when driving at speeds when its icy.
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Slightly off topic but Matchboy, why the change from Cayman to TTS ?
Various reasons really. Cayman S is the best car I've ever had & driven, its brill and the sound is out of this world. But...I've found myself only driving it to and from work, as at the weekend with only 2 seats its not practical. Additionally, its a challenge to drive in the wet (you just can't use the power how you'd like) and also its very expensive to run (2 rear tyres were £600 odd and the service was £600+) with 23-24 mpg average. Finally, and this is a game changer for me - the interior is just a mess...sat nav is awful, and the whole infotainment system is very dated - the VW one is a million miles better for eg. And as you spend all your time in the cockpit, I like my creature comforts and ease of use! It's a brilliant drivers car - but as a daily drive, after a year, certain things start to grate.
I will miss it I'm sure, but I've had a cracking year with it and the weather has been kind so had a lot of fun. I'm glad I got it, has been a amazing car and I've had an awesome time in it, but with winter just around the corner I fancied something a little safer to drive (I'm no racing driver at the end of the day), with 2 rear (albeit small!) seats and slightly better economy. And something with a better infotainment - so can't wait to have a go with the Audi virtual cockpit!
Also, its quicker than the Porsche :evil:
Edit: I actually was going to go back to an R as its so good at everything, and you just can't beat a VW - but I got offered this TTS and its the same platform as the R, so I'm expecting big things!
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What do the MY17 performance Golfs get trodden with? surely not the Bridgestone still?
I would have no choice but to stay with the tyres it comes with, so if still Bridgestone then pretty glad got the R as would hate to have t live with them again on a GTI/GTD till first change over, the tramping definitely tainted the experience until better tyres softened the impact if not removed issue entirely.
That's one of the best reasons (although not making sense economically :grin:) to go with the R: The bloody Bridgestones even the Clubsports come with. MPSS soon to be on order with just 500km on the Bridgestones but I don't care, they don't allow the car's great handling abilities to be fully enjoyed.
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Slightly off topic but Matchboy, why the change from Cayman to TTS ?
Various reasons really. Cayman S is the best car I've ever had & driven, its brill and the sound is out of this world. But...I've found myself only driving it to and from work, as at the weekend with only 2 seats its not practical. Additionally, its a challenge to drive in the wet (you just can't use the power how you'd like) and also its very expensive to run (2 rear tyres were £600 odd and the service was £600+) with 23-24 mpg average. Finally, and this is a game changer for me - the interior is just a mess...sat nav is awful, and the whole infotainment system is very dated - the VW one is a million miles better for eg. And as you spend all your time in the cockpit, I like my creature comforts and ease of use! It's a brilliant drivers car - but as a daily drive, after a year, certain things start to grate.
I will miss it I'm sure, but I've had a cracking year with it and the weather has been kind so had a lot of fun. I'm glad I got it, has been a amazing car and I've had an awesome time in it, but with winter just around the corner I fancied something a little safer to drive (I'm no racing driver at the end of the day), with 2 rear (albeit small!) seats and slightly better economy. And something with a better infotainment - so can't wait to have a go with the Audi virtual cockpit!
Also, its quicker than the Porsche :evil:
Edit: I actually was going to go back to an R as its so good at everything, and you just can't beat a VW - but I got offered this TTS and its the same platform as the R, so I'm expecting big things!
I must have missed this Mark. Have you ordered a new TTS?
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I must have missed this Mark. Have you ordered a new TTS?
I have mate! Well, I've piggy backed on a car they already have in their system (saved me a wait!) - it's just about to go on the boat, so should have it in 2-3 weeks :cool:
Have to say, can't wait to get it!
Managed to get 13% discount too...you've got to be tempted surely?!
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I must have missed this Mark. Have you ordered a new TTS?
I have mate! Well, I've piggy backed on a car they already have in their system (saved me a wait!) - it's just about to go on the boat, so should have it in 2-3 weeks :cool:
Have to say, can't wait to get it!
Managed to get 13% discount too...you've got to be tempted surely?!
Need 5 doors so was never in the running for the new TT but as was doing the due diligence on an S3 did have a good look over the TT in showroom as basically it grabbed my attention, and feel they really have uplifted quite a bit from previous model both internally and externally, as lines look really sharp and more fitting for a Coupé
So looking forward to seeing yours in its TTS clothing :cool:
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Need 5 doors so was never in the running for the new TT but as was doing the due diligence on an S3 did have a good look over the TT in showroom as basically it grabbed my attention, and feel they really have uplifted quite a bit from previous model both internally and externally, as lines look really sharp and more fitting for a Coupé
So looking forward to seeing yours in its TTS clothing :cool:
Yeah, I have to say I was going to get another R, then was just browsing around as had forgotten about the TT given the small back seats - thought might as well have a gander just to see...went for a look, the little 'un can fit in no problems, so it was a no brainer. The cabin is really nice, I'm looking forward to getting in it I have to say :smiley:
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Need 5 doors so was never in the running for the new TT but as was doing the due diligence on an S3 did have a good look over the TT in showroom as basically it grabbed my attention, and feel they really have uplifted quite a bit from previous model both internally and externally, as lines look really sharp and more fitting for a Coupé
So looking forward to seeing yours in its TTS clothing :cool:
Yeah, I have to say I was going to get another R, then was just browsing around as had forgotten about the TT given the small back seats - thought might as well have a gander just to see...went for a look, the little 'un can fit in no problems, so it was a no brainer. The cabin is really nice, I'm looking forward to getting in it I have to say :smiley:
Pondered for ages over going to the R as it is going to personally cost me some more but in the end it was a scratch had to itch which seems no problem for your good self in pulling the trigger :)
Good for me to read that you would have gone for another R though as given scope you allow self it does add more weight to my choice
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What do the MY17 performance Golfs get trodden with? surely not the Bridgestone still?
I would have no choice but to stay with the tyres it comes with, so if still Bridgestone then pretty glad got the R as would hate to have t live with them again on a GTI/GTD till first change over, the tramping definitely tainted the experience until better tyres softened the impact if not removed issue entirely.
My R with 18" Cadiz wheels has Bridgestone S001's, this is the same tyre I have had on my current and previous 320d.
I have no doubt there are better tyres out there (MPSS as an example) but for road use I haven't found the limitations of the tyre in either the BMW or the R.
When they do wear out I will try some alternates there for comparison.
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What do the MY17 performance Golfs get trodden with? surely not the Bridgestone still?
I would have no choice but to stay with the tyres it comes with, so if still Bridgestone then pretty glad got the R as would hate to have t live with them again on a GTI/GTD till first change over, the tramping definitely tainted the experience until better tyres softened the impact if not removed issue entirely.
My R with 18" Cadiz wheels has Bridgestone S001's, this is the same tyre I have had on my current and previous 320d.
I have no doubt there are better tyres out there (MPSS as an example) but for road use I haven't found the limitations of the tyre in either the BMW or the R.
When they do wear out I will try some alternates there for comparison.
Not as concerned if come on Bridgestones as the AWD will still resolve the tramping and get me away immediately but was just surprised they are still the stock tyre after the wide spread feedback to their poor quality for a performance hatch
So the R is not the most economical way of circumnavigating the issue but given expected lower mileage, to have to live with Bridgestones for maybe a couple of years would have driven me nuts.
Presume the 19" Pretoria are Bridgestone also as have gone for the Pret's
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What do the MY17 performance Golfs get trodden with? surely not the Bridgestone still?
I would have no choice but to stay with the tyres it comes with, so if still Bridgestone then pretty glad got the R as would hate to have t live with them again on a GTI/GTD till first change over, the tramping definitely tainted the experience until better tyres softened the impact if not removed issue entirely.
P Zeros on mine.
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Pondered for ages over going to the R as it is going to personally cost me some more but in the end it was a scratch had to itch which seems no problem for your good self in pulling the trigger :)
Good for me to read that you would have gone for another R though as given scope you allow self it does add more weight to my choice
Oh, you won't be disappointed in any way. Its a fab car - I'd even been in to see my regular dealer to order another R that's how close to getting one. Basically, if the little un hadn't have fitted comfortably in the back seat of the TTS then I would have been checking that VW tracker each day yet again :grin:
I know VW gets a bad press (and rightly so sometimes, I've certainly had my issues with them, particularly factory delays and lack of communication to the customer) - but their cars are great and I've already earmarked a Mk 8 R as something I want after the TT in a couple of years :cool:
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Pondered for ages over going to the R as it is going to personally cost me some more but in the end it was a scratch had to itch which seems no problem for your good self in pulling the trigger :)
Good for me to read that you would have gone for another R though as given scope you allow self it does add more weight to my choice
Oh, you won't be disappointed in any way. Its a fab car - I'd even been in to see my regular dealer to order another R that's how close to getting one. Basically, if the little un hadn't have fitted comfortably in the back seat of the TTS then I would have been checking that VW tracker each day yet again :grin:
I know VW gets a bad press (and rightly so sometimes, I've certainly had my issues with them, particularly factory delays and lack of communication to the customer) - but their cars are great and I've already earmarked a Mk 8 R as something I want after the TT in a couple of years :cool:
That's awesome Mark. The more I see on the road the more I like them. In saying that the good thing is that the TTS still seems to be a rare beast. I saw one in Sepang blue the other day and it looked absolutely amazing!!
I would be so tempted pal if circumstances were different but unfortunately with our new recent arrival (well he's 1 on Saturday :shocked: :shocked:) a new house has become the priority
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That's awesome Mark. The more I see on the road the more I like them. In saying that the good thing is that the TTS still seems to be a rare beast. I saw one in Sepang blue the other day and it looked absolutely amazing!!
I would be so tempted pal if circumstances were different but unfortunately with our new recent arrival (well he's 1 on Saturday :shocked: :shocked:) a new house has become the priority
Sepang Blue is the one I'm getting, with the 20" rims :cool: Yes, it's still quite rare although you know what its like, as soon as you start looking out for a type of car you see them all the time :grin:
Ha ha, yeah probably not the most practical car when you have a 1 year old! Get used to that time flying mate, my little girl is 8 today and I have no idea where that's gone! :shocked:
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That's awesome Mark. The more I see on the road the more I like them. In saying that the good thing is that the TTS still seems to be a rare beast. I saw one in Sepang blue the other day and it looked absolutely amazing!!
I would be so tempted pal if circumstances were different but unfortunately with our new recent arrival (well he's 1 on Saturday :shocked: :shocked:) a new house has become the priority
Sepang Blue is the one I'm getting, with the 20" rims :cool: Yes, it's still quite rare although you know what its like, as soon as you start looking out for a type of car you see them all the time :grin:
Ha ha, yeah probably not the most practical car when you have a 1 year old! Get used to that time flying mate, my little girl is 8 today and I have no idea where that's gone! :shocked:
You're getting the perfect spec then :cool: :cool:. Make sure to post up plenty of pics pal. :smiley: :smiley:. Tis scary where the time disappears
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You're getting the perfect spec then :cool: :cool:. Make sure to post up plenty of pics pal. :smiley: :smiley:. Tis scary where the time disappears
Hope so! :cool:
I will mate, Instagram will be bored of me by the time I'm finished posting pics :grin:
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My R with 18" Cadiz wheels has Bridgestone S001's, this is the same tyre I have had on my current and previous 320d.
I have no doubt there are better tyres out there (MPSS as an example) but for road use I haven't found the limitations of the tyre in either the BMW or the R.
When they do wear out I will try some alternates there for comparison.
It's a totally different thing. AWD can easily flatter a bad tyre. A powerful FWD though will easily bring up a tire's weaknesses not just during accelerations but (especially on a more focused chassis with increased grip and handling like the Clubsport) during hard cornering.
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I must have missed this Mark. Have you ordered a new TTS?
I have mate! Well, I've piggy backed on a car they already have in their system (saved me a wait!) - it's just about to go on the boat, so should have it in 2-3 weeks :cool:
Have to say, can't wait to get it!
Managed to get 13% discount too...you've got to be tempted surely?!
interested to read the comments about the Porsche. Have to say when I test drove the new 718 I was expecting big things of the new nav and infotainment but it was still like stepping back 2 generations from the BMW prof nav system. Really disappointing so I can imagine the previous one was worse.
There are some good deals around on TT's too. Was your 13% including the deposit contribution ?
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Though this thread is about why buy a GTI thought add another element which closed the difference for company drivers in 'selecting'
The GTD % for BIK is 3% more for Diesels so that closes the gap down to BIK for the GTI/R (Petrol) being only 3% more than the GTD, as this year for example its 25% for the GTD and 28% for the R = About £34 a month extra
The mileage you have to take with a huge pinch of salt but for someone like myself where mileage has halved the Diesel real high mileage benefits have been dented even if still decent.
Fleet News has the difference between the GTD and R at 3.84 pence per mile more, which if do about 800 miles a month is about an extra £30 (Given my mileage has dropped and not really seeing the high mileage benefits of Diesel as well as the additional cost of premium diesel to unleaded premium, then think it may balance out to about this actually and no more than extra tank £50)
Company drivers do not have to worry about insurance so not a cost that have to factor.
So given the gap between a GTD and R is not a chasm, (GTI falls somewhere in between) it does add to the question as to why select (not buy) GTI under these conditions (of course many a good other reason been provided in this thread)
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Hmmmm BIK...
Based on a 5 door manual version of each with no extras:
20% Tax
R
2016-2017 £1,896
2017-2018 £2,022
GTI
2016-2017 £1,304
2017-2018 £1,413
GTD
2016-2017 £1,177
2017-2018 £1,284
40% Tax
R
2016-2017 £3,792
2017-2018 £4,044
GTI
2016-2017 £2,609
2017-2018 £2,827
GTD
2016-2017 £2,354
2017-2018 £2,568
I make that over a hundred quid a month come next April (at 40%, I'd guess you are a 40% payer if they are giving you a 30k car!) between an R and a GTD. Plus extra lease costs too.
The difference between GTI and GTD is a bit more moot, but if you said the GTI does 40mpg and the GTD does 50mpg.... thats a 25% increase in fuel costs - can be a lot if you do a lot of personal miles too.
Its all by the by for me anyway, we aren't allowed anything over 150g/km emissions in line with EU Co2 targets. GTD or nothing. Am hoping the 2017 target doesn't get noticed or I am driving a bloody Prius next time....*spit*
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Hmmmm BIK...
Based on a 5 door manual version of each with no extras:
20% Tax
R
2016-2017 £1,896
2017-2018 £2,022
GTI
2016-2017 £1,304
2017-2018 £1,413
GTD
2016-2017 £1,177
2017-2018 £1,284
40% Tax
R
2016-2017 £3,792
2017-2018 £4,044
GTI
2016-2017 £2,609
2017-2018 £2,827
GTD
2016-2017 £2,354
2017-2018 £2,568
I make that over a hundred quid a month come next April (at 40%, I'd guess you are a 40% payer if they are giving you a 30k car!) between an R and a GTD. Plus extra lease costs too.
The difference between GTI and GTD is a bit more moot, but if you said the GTI does 40mpg and the GTD does 50mpg.... thats a 25% increase in fuel costs - can be a lot if you do a lot of personal miles too.
Its all by the by for me anyway, we aren't allowed anything over 150g/km emissions in line with EU Co2 targets. GTD or nothing. Am hoping the 2017 target doesn't get noticed or I am driving a bloody Prius next time....*spit*
The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
Imagine someone getting a wage increase from £42.5k to £43.5k it really would not be worth it had to pay the whole 40% :)
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Reading this nonsense makes me so glad that I buy my vehicles outright :smiley:
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The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
I meant that you're probably a higher earner if the company is giving you a £30k Golf R and not making you drive an Astra 1.6... ;-)
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Reading this nonsense makes me so glad that I buy my vehicles outright :smiley:
To be honest its not that convoluted, you get an allowance which you can down (money back) or uplift (to set amount) depending on car select - so that's a clear cost right at outset
You have to work the potential fuel spend whether lease or purchase, so that's an equivalent
The BIK cost is pretty clear really at circa £160 a month for the R and about £130 GTD
You not have to worry on insurance so that is a pain removed and the saving depending on how much would have to pay does offset the BIK cost mentioned above
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Reading this nonsense makes me so glad that I buy my vehicles outright :smiley:
To be honest its not that convoluted, you get an allowance which you can down (money back) or uplift (to set amount) depending on car select - so that's a clear cost right at outset
You have to work the potential fuel spend whether lease or purchase, so that's an equivalent
The BIK cost is pretty clear really at circa £160 a month for the R and about £130 GTD
You not have to worry on insurance so that is a pain removed and the saving depending on how much would have to pay does offset the BIK cost mentioned above
If only I knew wtf BIK meant I would be a bit wiser :rolleyes:
Only joking, please don't tell me :grin:
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Reading this nonsense makes me so glad that I buy my vehicles outright :smiley:
To be honest its not that convoluted, you get an allowance which you can down (money back) or uplift (to set amount) depending on car select - so that's a clear cost right at outset
You have to work the potential fuel spend whether lease or purchase, so that's an equivalent
The BIK cost is pretty clear really at circa £160 a month for the R and about £130 GTD
You not have to worry on insurance so that is a pain removed and the saving depending on how much would have to pay does offset the BIK cost mentioned above
If only I knew wtf BIK meant I would be a bit wiser :rolleyes:
Only joking, please don't tell me :grin:
BIK = Benefit In Kind :smiley:
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Omg 10 pages in 3 days, you lot have been productive :cool:
Right why I chose GTI over R? A few reasons really:
1. First of all styling, in my eyes the GTI looks better than the R and when some say: "Yes but R has quad exhaust and looks better from behind" I say that my Remus quad exhaust and Rieger diffuser looks better than the R exhaust and it's also louder.
2. I have PP so same brakes as the R but as a plus the LSD compared to the standard XDS+ on the R.
3. Better fuel economy (however not really fussed as I haven't bought a performance car to worry about fuel consumption)
4. Cheaper than R back when I got mine.
5. Hate the gloss piano black interior on the R and no tartan seats and I believe the GTI carbon like interior and the silver inserts in the steering wheel look better.
Overall I prefer the GTI to the R, don't regret getting the GTI this being the reason why I have a second GTI PP on order due for october delivery. In real world for our roads I don't think there is such a big difference from R to GTI and I find the power of the GTI more than sufficient to keep up with most cars and also have fun on a B road and have your share of adrenaline. Unless you track the car or take part in traffic lights grand-prix, I don't see a reason for me to get an R.
On the other hand I understand the reason why a lot of people chose the R when VW had cheap PCP deals a few years ago.
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Omg 10 pages in 3 days, you lot have been productive :cool:
Right why I chose GTI over R? A few reasons really:
1. First of all styling, in my eyes the GTI looks better than the R and when some say: "Yes but R has quad exhaust and looks better from behind" I say that my Remus quad exhaust and Rieger diffuser looks better than the R exhaust and it's also louder.
2. I have PP so same brakes as the R but as a plus the LSD compared to the standard XDS+ on the R.
3. Better fuel economy (however not really fussed as I haven't bought a performance car to worry about fuel consumption)
4. Cheaper than R back when I got mine.
5. Hate the gloss piano black interior on the R and no tartan seats and I believe the GTI carbon like interior and the silver inserts in the steering wheel look better.
Overall I prefer the GTI to the R, don't regret getting the GTI this being the reason why I have a second GTI PP on order due for october delivery. In real world for our roads I don't think there is such a big difference from R to GTI and I find the power of the GTI more than sufficient to keep up with most cars and also have fun on a B road and have your share of adrenaline. Unless you track the car or take part in traffic lights grand-prix, I don't see a reason for me to get an R.
On the other hand I understand the reason why a lot of people chose the R when VW had cheap PCP deals a few years ago.
Agree with you points of view, except the R for track days. I wouldn't want AWD, especially VW version of AWD on track days. Both are great cars and glad we can choose between them though
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Omg 10 pages in 3 days, you lot have been productive :cool:
Right why I chose GTI over R? A few reasons really:
1. First of all styling, in my eyes the GTI looks better than the R and when some say: "Yes but R has quad exhaust and looks better from behind" I say that my Remus quad exhaust and Rieger diffuser looks better than the R exhaust and it's also louder.
2. I have PP so same brakes as the R but as a plus the LSD compared to the standard XDS+ on the R.
3. Better fuel economy (however not really fussed as I haven't bought a performance car to worry about fuel consumption)
4. Cheaper than R back when I got mine.
5. Hate the gloss piano black interior on the R and no tartan seats and I believe the GTI carbon like interior and the silver inserts in the steering wheel look better.
Overall I prefer the GTI to the R, don't regret getting the GTI this being the reason why I have a second GTI PP on order due for october delivery. In real world for our roads I don't think there is such a big difference from R to GTI and I find the power of the GTI more than sufficient to keep up with most cars and also have fun on a B road and have your share of adrenaline. Unless you track the car or take part in traffic lights grand-prix, I don't see a reason for me to get an R.
On the other hand I understand the reason why a lot of people chose the R when VW had cheap PCP deals a few years ago.
Your logic is pretty sound with the differences in the day to day driving being minimal
My GTD pretty much gives me all you describe too and really am sad to see it go
The R styling has grown on me though do think the front end is a little bland, but as understated is very much the preference it has grown on me and do take point on the piano black as think prefer my GTD carbon effect, but again has grown on me as a change of environment
It was very very close for me to choosing the GTI. It really was resolving the getaway with AWD and just wanting to experience this car for myself that swayed it and no reflection on the MK 7 overall as soon dismissed other makes and became straight shoot out between the GTD > GTI > R
So I have taking a punt, a risk even, and its a 3 year lab experiment for me and we will see if R is compelling enough to keep me or have me going back to the GTI or even a GTD. (if AWD one appears it would be a lock if honest)
Did forget to make one other point from business lease perspective in that my company pricing for the Audi and BMW was equal or above for lesser models than the R
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The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
I meant that you're probably a higher earner if the company is giving you a £30k Golf R and not making you drive an Astra 1.6... ;-)
I'm in the 20% tax bracket and I have a 28k GTD,
And the GTD does not do 50mpg in real world, more like 40-42mpg.
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The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
I meant that you're probably a higher earner if the company is giving you a £30k Golf R and not making you drive an Astra 1.6... ;-)
I'm in the 20% tax bracket and I have a 28k GTD,
And the GTD does not do 50mpg in real world, more like 40-42mpg.
The R for my company lease scheme was coming out cheaper than Audi and BMW for really nice, but far lesser models IE S Line 2.0 TDi 184 BHP with lesser options such as not being able to select Magnetic Ride etc
The book price value of these cars were much lower than the R but what the lease company was looking for in lease costs for the R was less
So just presume its something similar to the PCP deals in that you are just getting great value on the R and maybe its because its just a Golf and flies under the radar.
When you go into my car tracker on my salary package all you see is VW Golf Diesel 1968 and no mention of the GTD and imagine that be same for the R - So anyone looking at that would think he just has a boring old golf, ;)
So you get a set amount, the cars available for that monies are displayed and you select.
On a long run you can get high 50's on GTD but overall its definitely around the 40 MPG mark due to shorter journeys, so expect the R to come out 30-34 on same journeys - certainly not going to tailor my driving so it will be what it will be and we shall see, but that's thinking
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The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
I meant that you're probably a higher earner if the company is giving you a £30k Golf R and not making you drive an Astra 1.6... ;-)
I'm in the 20% tax bracket and I have a 28k GTD,
And the GTD does not do 50mpg in real world, more like 40-42mpg.
IF that is true - only 40-42mpg that is really shocking for a 2.0 4 cylinder ?! Are people really only getting that from a GTD I would have thought it would be much better..
I have honestly never had less than 40mpg and I average 46-47 from my 330d, week in week out over a range of A, B and dual carriageway commute, with a best of 53mpg from a tankfull (623 miles)
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Yeah they aren't that great on fuel compared to BMW equivalents, thats why I never understood the GTD as i wasn't sure what the stand out feature that makes it a good purchase, the one area it needs to excel at its not that significant. I understand the Diesel range but not sure i fully got the GTD as i thought it really needed to be great on Eco. Best looking of the 3 though.
But it might be a mute point in a few years as the diesels have clearly struggled to meet the existing targets and the new ones which will be even more strict in 2017 (I think) may kill off a portion of the oil burning industry. Renault/nissan saying they may stop making some small to medium Diesels, Bosch now being sued in America for the Scandal as well as VW. The standards for diesel just got tougher (Greg Wallace style)
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The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
I meant that you're probably a higher earner if the company is giving you a £30k Golf R and not making you drive an Astra 1.6... ;-)
I'm in the 20% tax bracket and I have a 28k GTD,
And the GTD does not do 50mpg in real world, more like 40-42mpg.
IF that is true - only 40-42mpg that is really shocking for a 2.0 4 cylinder ?! Are people really only getting that from a GTD I would have thought it would be much better..
I have honestly never had less than 40mpg and I average 46-47 from my 330d, week in week out over a range of A, B and dual carriageway commute, with a best of 53mpg from a tankfull (623 miles)
It climbs to high 50's on a long run as recently proved
But as an overall average of all journeys its circa 42 MPG
Think mine is definitely down to lots more short commutes has mileage has halved since selected the GTD and hence the R may not be as much as a hit as the shorter journeys are killing the GTD benefits
Imagine many here who do longer commutes similar to yours will post better figures, so think its not so much the car capability but the varying demographics of use.
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
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The 40% is only applicable if you already in that pay bracket, if the car element (allowance) takes you over the £43k threshold (£45k 2017/18) and into that bracket you obviously then have pay extra on that portion but it will not be the full 40% figures
I meant that you're probably a higher earner if the company is giving you a £30k Golf R and not making you drive an Astra 1.6... ;-)
I'm in the 20% tax bracket and I have a 28k GTD,
And the GTD does not do 50mpg in real world, more like 40-42mpg.
IF that is true - only 40-42mpg that is really shocking for a 2.0 4 cylinder ?! Are people really only getting that from a GTD I would have thought it would be much better..
I have honestly never had less than 40mpg and I average 46-47 from my 330d, week in week out over a range of A, B and dual carriageway commute, with a best of 53mpg from a tankfull (623 miles)
That IS true, I think the most I've seen on my 'long-term' screen is 43mpg.
Yes, it will achieve over 50mpg on a long journey, all depends how you drive.
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
Had the exact same 170 BHP on Quattro for 6 years over 2 models and that was about right and suppose my acceptance of being about the level comes from that, never ever expected the 60 MPG that was touted for the GTD. You can hit that on a long run, but never as an overall figure unless maybe doing long runs daily.
But on to 300 BHP and petrol for me so economy obviously not being factored so much though do expect the variances on fuel cost and lower mileage to offset costs and to in reality not cost me much more than now, no more than cost of a Nando for two maybe ;)
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
:rolleyes: My last car, 2012 A3 2.0 140 tdi was the same, circa 42-43mpg, as was my car before that, a 2009 mk6 2.0 140 Golf GT.
Anyway I thought this thread was about GTI and R's? :grin:
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
:rolleyes: My last car, 2012 A3 2.0 140 tdi was the same, circa 42-43mpg, as was my car before that, a 2009 mk6 2.0 140 Golf GT.
Anyway I thought this thread was about GTI and R's? :grin:
All in melting pot
These figures point to why not buy a GTI over a GTD if mileage is not high, ;)
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
:rolleyes: My last car, 2012 A3 2.0 140 tdi was the same, circa 42-43mpg, as was my car before that, a 2009 mk6 2.0 140 Golf GT.
Anyway I thought this thread was about GTI and R's? :grin:
All in melting pot
These figures point to why not buy a GTI over a GTD if mileage is not high, ;)
Anyone in a GTD doing less than 15k a year begs the question why not to go for a GTI!
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interested to read the comments about the Porsche. Have to say when I test drove the new 718 I was expecting big things of the new nav and infotainment but it was still like stepping back 2 generations from the BMW prof nav system. Really disappointing so I can imagine the previous one was worse.
There are some good deals around on TT's too. Was your 13% including the deposit contribution ?
That doesn't surprise me re: the nav etc on the 718's. I knew it was cr@p going into it, but after a year it does start to become annoying.
Nope, straight up 13% discount. I don't think the TTS is a very big seller - hence I didn't even have to work that hard to get that discount. I'd imagine the normal ones are the popular versions as they're a lot cheaper, and also the TTRS comes out soon so maybe people are waiting for that (monster, 3.7 secs 0-60 but v expensive!)
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
:rolleyes: My last car, 2012 A3 2.0 140 tdi was the same, circa 42-43mpg, as was my car before that, a 2009 mk6 2.0 140 Golf GT.
Anyway I thought this thread was about GTI and R's? :grin:
All in melting pot
These figures point to why not buy a GTI over a GTD if mileage is not high, ;)
Anyone in a GTD doing less than 15k a year begs the question why not to go for a GTI!
When selected my GTD I was doing 15k +
6 months from receiving a role change! and that dropped to what will work out as 27k over 3 years when hand back, and hence going for the R as expect that 27k to be more 20k as it will now be minus lots of University runs as daughter now graduated.
Diesel costs more and short journeys bring parity to the economy, though never experienced the amount of regens was expecting, it was good on that front even with shorter runs.
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I regularly get 50mpg from mine over the summer. A typical long haul of 100+ miles on the motorway will yield about 53mpg.... my best was the other week with 58mpg over about 70 miles.
Does depend on how you drive though, I am sure some of you could travel the same routes and get 40mpg :-P
The combination of being an essential traveler for work and the infestation of speed cameras mean that these days I rarely go over 70mph on the motorway - this does make a lot of difference to the fuel economy!
Whilst you might wonder why I'd care if it was for business... the company pay a flat pence per mile rate. Quite often in the past it was costing me money to travel for work, now its quite often shifted the other way ;-)
I have no idea what a GTI or R could do, but suspect that BIK and MPG would make it more expensive for me and as much as I love my Golf (and I really do!) I don't really want to pay out any more than I have to - its about on the limit of my budget as it is. What took me from Mondeos etc to this was the concept of a lighter car being more fuel efficient (and it is) plus a better depreciation rate reducing the lease costs (also did that) PLUS at the time (2.5 years ago) the BIK rate was super low (mega low compared to a Mondeo!). All of this offset the fact that its a more expensive smaller car.
Its all worked out fine but the upcoming problem is that the BIK rates advance once bracket per year and VW have a slightly increased CO2 figure for current GTD's (post desielgate) that nudges it up. All of this means that another GTD next year will be at least 4 brackets higher than this one AND the lease cost will have increased.
All of this could well be a deal breaker for me as the only thing which hasn't gone up is my salary :(
Will be looking hard at some different options shortly, which is a shame because if it was just "are you happy with your GTD?" the answer would be absolutely 100% YES! Its all the other factors that put it in doubt.
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I had a gtd from September 13 until October 15 and then went back to a Tiguan r line. I'm now hankering for a golf again(probably should have kept the gtd but that's another story for another thread). Was very happy with my previous gtd but this time I'm thinking gti. My daily round trip commute is 14 miles and on cold mornings I'm getting 33mpg out of the Tiguan, warmer mornings can touch 40mpg and my annual mileage is about 8500 give or take. Up here in sunny Sunderland the diesel and petrol are the same price but I'm in two minds over a gtd or a gti. I've ruled out the R and am thinking i might get at least the same or slightly better from a gti. Any opinions on my thoughts??
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The GTI will comfortably match those mpg figures. Utterly pointless putting up with the drawbacks of a diesel when you do such low mileage and short commutes imo.
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The GTI will comfortably match those mpg figures. Utterly pointless putting up with the drawbacks of a diesel when you do such low mileage and short commutes imo.
You beat me to it, spot on answer :wink:
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What's the real world mpg of a gti on a long run. Mid 40s?? I struggled sometimes in the gtd to get 45 on a run before and my long term was about 39 to 41. I know if I go gti it's not about mpgs but it's all part of the package. If I can at least match or better the Tiguan then I would be happy.
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What's the real world mpg of a gti on a long run. Mid 40s?? I struggled sometimes in the gtd to get 45 on a run before and my long term was about 39 to 41. I know if I go gti it's not about mpgs but it's all part of the package. If I can at least match or better the Tiguan then I would be happy.
I get between 38 and 44 mpg down to Spain, my mpg depends on needs
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What's the real world mpg of a gti on a long run. Mid 40s?? I struggled sometimes in the gtd to get 45 on a run before and my long term was about 39 to 41. I know if I go gti it's not about mpgs but it's all part of the package. If I can at least match or better the Tiguan then I would be happy.
On a long run with a not-too-heavy foot, the GTI will average high 30's. With a very light foot, keeping low revs and keeping speed under 60mph it'll do 42 ish I'd say. But that's pretty boring.... A more realistic long term average with your low miles and short journeys would be closer to 34-35mpg.
But, why be so hung up on a few measly mpg anyway. With low mileage it's a tiny factor in the overall cost of ownership, the cost differential between 45mpg and 35mpg when only doing 8k miles a year has got to be fairly insignificant in the overall scheme of things.
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It's a small amount in real terms I suppose and it will be a lot more fun back in a golf. The Tiguan is a quick car for its size and bulk but not really the same as even the gtd. I do have Scottish blood in me also so it's getting the best balance of mpgs and monthlies and fun into one package😃
One of the good things about the gtd is it also being cheaper to buy and run which kind of goes against the usual thinking in the petrol v diesel chat. Gtd would still be cheaper than a gti even at 8500 to 9000 miles per year but the gti itch is becoming quite scratchy.
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What's the real world mpg of a gti on a long run. Mid 40s?? I struggled sometimes in the gtd to get 45 on a run before and my long term was about 39 to 41. I know if I go gti it's not about mpgs but it's all part of the package. If I can at least match or better the Tiguan then I would be happy.
If you drive like a nun you might see early 40s Chris. The R (and GTI, carrying a little less weight) are most economical sat at 30-50mph, purring along in 5th or 6th gear at 1500 -2000rpm not under load. That makes their mpg penalty less noticeable vs the GTD in city traffic, when the GTD's high gearing makes it difficult to be sat in 6th gear often.
When you get up to motorway speeds though, that lower gearing makes the GTI and R much thirstier than the GTD - doing a constant 80mph on the motorway, you'll be lucky to average 32mpg in the R or 35mpg in the GTI. The mpg difference between the R and the GTI is pretty small, it's only lugging 8% extra weight in the haldex which will behaving like a 2WD when not pressing on - about half the extra fueling costs of the R come from having to shell out at least 5p per litre more for the premium stuff.
Today I had a steady drive, quick but with no real opportunities to put my foot down apart from a 5 mile stretch of Newcastle's central motorway and my 20 mile commute saw me get 37.1mpg (indicated) and i'm averaging 34.2mpg for my tank on Tesco Momentum (despite driving with a bit of a mean streak on my way home last night).
You do get less mpg drop-off in the winter vs the GTD, diesels are much thirstier in the winter (for the combustion temp of the diesel, warm air loaded with moisture makes a far bigger difference to the mpg than it does for the petrol).
Stay light on the options Chris - that's what's really pushing your monthlies up when you change every 2 years.
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It's hard not to tick a few essential options though 😃😃
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My good lady took her GTI down to the borders and back from Glasgow and got 45mpg.
She had her elderly parents in the car so would definitely have been taking it easy but it shows it can be done.
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^Just goes to show how mpg can vary so much on driving style, length of journey and how the car was run in.
The R is noticeably more economical on RON99 (Shell/Tesco) than RON97 (Esso/BP) - not sure if fuel brand choice makes much of a difference to a GTI being ran on standard RON95 from wherever.
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saying that I shouldn't be so surprised, I had an A3 170 tdi before the BMW and it did no better than about 43-44 on a good day ! I think the combination of the torque of the 330d and auto gearbox which sits the engine around 17-1800 rpm @ around 80 mph gives it good long range mpg once up to temp.
Agree on shorter runs it might be hitting the GTD consumption..
:rolleyes: My last car, 2012 A3 2.0 140 tdi was the same, circa 42-43mpg, as was my car before that, a 2009 mk6 2.0 140 Golf GT.
Anyway I thought this thread was about GTI and R's? :grin:
All in melting pot
These figures point to why not buy a GTI over a GTD if mileage is not high, ;)
Anyone in a GTD doing less than 15k a year begs the question why not to go for a GTI!
Precisely what made my mind up! You'll never see the benefit of diesel unless your typical journey is over 20 miles.
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^Just goes to show how mpg can vary so much on driving style, length of journey and how the car was run in.
The R is noticeably more economical on RON99 (Shell/Tesco) than RON97 (Esso/BP) - not sure if fuel brand choice makes much of a difference to a GTI being ran on standard RON95 from wherever.
Think the overall thought to keep is the lower the mileage the lower the impact regardless of the MPG differential.
If everything stays as is for next 3 years personally think be doing 7k less miles than previous 3 years and so my overall fuel spend on the R should not be much more than the GTD which with the higher diesel cost and short journeys is only giving me 42MPG
Its going to be an interesting experiment to see exactly how much difference the mileage makes from the GTD to the R as it will be a pretty equal test as doubt driving pattern and style will change at all.
The style is cruise on Motorways, sometimes in ECO and just go with the flow on town and A road traffic, and push it on the roads where can and which are well known to me locally ... The one difference will be that getting away into a gap will be immediate and without the small tramp and minor 'lag' as power kicks in. (maybe even more economical!)
If that now 43 MPG comes in at anywhere near 32MPG then be very happy.
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What's the real world mpg of a gti on a long run. Mid 40s?? I struggled sometimes in the gtd to get 45 on a run before and my long term was about 39 to 41. I know if I go gti it's not about mpgs but it's all part of the package. If I can at least match or better the Tiguan then I would be happy.
If you drive like a nun you might see early 40s Chris. The R (and GTI, carrying a little less weight) are most economical sat at 30-50mph, purring along in 5th or 6th gear at 1500 -2000rpm not under load. That makes their mpg penalty less noticeable vs the GTD in city traffic, when the GTD's high gearing makes it difficult to be sat in 6th gear often.
When you get up to motorway speeds though, that lower gearing makes the GTI and R much thirstier than the GTD - doing a constant 80mph on the motorway, you'll be lucky to average 32mpg in the R or 35mpg in the GTI. The mpg difference between the R and the GTI is pretty small, it's only lugging 8% extra weight in the haldex which will behaving like a 2WD when not pressing on - about half the extra fueling costs of the R come from having to shell out at least 5p per litre more for the premium stuff.
Today I had a steady drive, quick but with no real opportunities to put my foot down apart from a 5 mile stretch of Newcastle's central motorway and my 20 mile commute saw me get 37.1mpg (indicated) and i'm averaging 34.2mpg for my tank on Tesco Momentum (despite driving with a bit of a mean streak on my way home last night).
You do get less mpg drop-off in the winter vs the GTD, diesels are much thirstier in the winter (for the combustion temp of the diesel, warm air loaded with moisture makes a far bigger difference to the mpg than it does for the petrol).
Stay light on the options Chris - that's what's really pushing your monthlies up when you change every 2 years.
My 'long-term' mpg reset itself at the start of the week. Does anyone know how it does is? It was an average over about 4-5k miles once? Circa 41-43mpg.
Anyway, I've only been travelling from home to my office and little short journeys this week, 20min 15mile journey, in traffic, and my 'long term' over 221 miles is 37.4mpg. Shows where the GTD struggles.
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Just some loose figures but a gti will cost me about 40 to 50 quid a month more to run on fuel, tax and payments etc. Is it that much better than a gtd? I've got a 15 mile round trip to work and after factoring in fuel costs which are nearly the same up here it comes to about the figures above.
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Just some loose figures but a gti will cost me about 40 to 50 quid a month more to run on fuel, tax and payments etc. Is it that much better than a gtd? I've got a 15 mile round trip to work and after factoring in fuel costs which are nearly the same up here it comes to about the figures above.
Only you know your financial position. If your worried about the cost go for the GTD. If not then go for the GTI, its that simple
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Something else I forgot to mention for all you BIK'ers like me.... HMRC are proposing to introduce new rules for any salary sacrifice schemes (that's where you pay for a car lease from your gross pay) from April 2017.
Under this new proposal, if the BIK tax you pay is not as much as you would have paid in income tax and NI on the lease payments, then you have to pay the balance in tax...
Which basically means if you have done what I did and chosen a low CO2 polluting car for maximum tax efficiency (which is the way they encourage you not to pollute) then you will be penalized.
If you've not given a crap about the environment (or your pocket), then you won't.
Clearly there is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle, but its going to take a lot of spreadsheet work to find it I think!
All of my coworkers with their PHEV junk though will be cursing.
Its not clear yet whether HMRC will allow a grandfather clause though (ie stitching up people mid lease who had no idea this was coming when they engaged in the transaction) but I'd doubt they will be able to figure that out or even give a crap.
Looks more likely now that I'll ditch the oil burner or plans for a hybrid and just personally lease a GTI, probably with DSG now I don't care about the emissions.
I can see a long old weekend with spreadsheets coming up...
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The biggest cost of car ownership by far is depreciation, especially when chopping and changing every couple of years. A few mpg either way is a drop in the ocean in comparison.
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What's the real world mpg of a gti on a long run. Mid 40s?? I struggled sometimes in the gtd to get 45 on a run before and my long term was about 39 to 41. I know if I go gti it's not about mpgs but it's all part of the package. If I can at least match or better the Tiguan then I would be happy.
If you drive like a nun you might see early 40s Chris. The R (and GTI, carrying a little less weight) are most economical sat at 30-50mph, purring along in 5th or 6th gear at 1500 -2000rpm not under load. That makes their mpg penalty less noticeable vs the GTD in city traffic, when the GTD's high gearing makes it difficult to be sat in 6th gear often.
When you get up to motorway speeds though, that lower gearing makes the GTI and R much thirstier than the GTD - doing a constant 80mph on the motorway, you'll be lucky to average 32mpg in the R or 35mpg in the GTI. The mpg difference between the R and the GTI is pretty small, it's only lugging 8% extra weight in the haldex which will behaving like a 2WD when not pressing on - about half the extra fueling costs of the R come from having to shell out at least 5p per litre more for the premium stuff.
Today I had a steady drive, quick but with no real opportunities to put my foot down apart from a 5 mile stretch of Newcastle's central motorway and my 20 mile commute saw me get 37.1mpg (indicated) and i'm averaging 34.2mpg for my tank on Tesco Momentum (despite driving with a bit of a mean streak on my way home last night).
You do get less mpg drop-off in the winter vs the GTD, diesels are much thirstier in the winter (for the combustion temp of the diesel, warm air loaded with moisture makes a far bigger difference to the mpg than it does for the petrol).
Stay light on the options Chris - that's what's really pushing your monthlies up when you change every 2 years.
My 'long-term' mpg reset itself at the start of the week. Does anyone know how it does is? It was an average over about 4-5k miles once? Circa 41-43mpg.
Anyway, I've only been travelling from home to my office and little short journeys this week, 20min 15mile journey, in traffic, and my 'long term' over 221 miles is 37.4mpg. Shows where the GTD struggles.
Them figures sound about right for that type of journey as its become more and more my journey and only a couple of long runs have taken that figure over 40 long term, and so if get around 30- 32 MPG on that same 221 miles journey it will definitely demonstrate how much gap closes to petrol from diesel.
Think my experience will give a really good comparison as month by month the type of driving will be very similar and will report back on how doing.
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The biggest cost of car ownership by far is depreciation, especially when chopping and changing every couple of years. A few mpg either way is a drop in the ocean in comparison.
Biggest reason that pulled the trigger in the end, as do not own the car, if lost job its handed back, no insurance cost and so it was down to running cost alone and the extra may equate to a couple of Costa for two a month, the wife will have to have one less ;)
So while earning can readily pay for pleasure and if for any reason was not, not lumbered with car cannot afford.
Its a whole new ball game if you having to calculate the depreciation and pretty sure would have come out of the process with something completely different in car and spec and been looking at something for 5 years.
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As you know Chris, when I changed my 2013 GTD earlier this year, I'd actually ordered a GTI. Don't get me wrong, despite what the diesel haters on here will have you believe ( :grin:) it's a superb package, great economy for the performance on offer, not really that much slower in the real world than a GTI (except the traffic light grand prix), but I think the best looking of the performance Golf's (no red accents on the lights and interior), and a better front end than the R (personal opinion before all you R owners shoot me) - but then you know all this as you had one.
No I wanted a GTI as I'd had 3 diesels on the row and whilst all brilliant, there's just something about a performance petrol engine experience that the diesel doesn't offer (I'm not talking about performance, but rather the feeling it gives you). As it happened, my job changed slightly which means around 20-25k miles per year rather than the 7-8k miles I was doing, so in the end, I opted or a new 2016 GTD. TBH, I'm delighted with it as it's 10% better all round than my 2013 model. To give you an idea, I haven't been traveling much at all really and just from work to home and back, due to losing my father in law, then my mother within weeks recently. For my pottering to work and back though usual town traffic etc, with little motorway work, I've averaged 47.1 and 48.6 over the last two tanks. When I took the new car down to Swansea in May 2 weeks after getting it (with only 300 miles on it), I averaged 60.3 overall for the 465 mile round trip (calculated with brim to brim fill) - and that's DSG as well.
I still think if my mileage was as small as yours is I'd be running a GTI as the fuel saving over a GTD wouldn't be too bad. As for the "R", well yes, technically it's the best of the bunch, the fastest, best handling etc (and with some unique colors), but I don't think they look as nice as the GTI/GTD, and around my parts are as common as muck. In terms of frequency, near me, it's R then GTD then only a few GTI's, so that makes the GTI quite exclusive and another good reason to own one.
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Hi Andrew I text you this morning but not sure if you've changed your number. Chris
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Ahh, just checked and yes I have it - sorry really busy this morning at work so I never noticed it.
Basically the answers are as I gave above. In an ideal world I would have liked to go back to petrol and the GTI, but at present my annual mileage is just a little too prohibitive.
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Ahh, just checked and yes I have it - sorry really busy this morning at work so I never noticed it.
Basically the answers are as I gave above. In an ideal world I would have liked to go back to petrol and the GTI, but at present my annual mileage is just a little too prohibitive.
Yours is the best specced GTD that seen, in best colour, and with the MY16 improvements is a hard package to beat and if mileage was higher would not hesitate to have stayed GTD and likely at your specification.
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Just some loose figures but a gti will cost me about 40 to 50 quid a month more to run on fuel, tax and payments etc. Is it that much better than a gtd? I've got a 15 mile round trip to work and after factoring in fuel costs which are nearly the same up here it comes to about the figures above.
Aren't you comparing apples and fish? If its a money thing, or a fuel thing, its understandable. But for everything else its a diesel vs a petrol car, they handling drive and feel so different they can't really be compared. Opt for the PP version and you will get the VAQ diff the brakes and obviously a petrol engine that breaths rather than being determined by fuel flow. Don't get me wrong i have had diesels including twin turbo BMW ones, but even in the same MQB platform a diesel car will be very different to the petrol GTi PP with a VAQ.
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Could go for the gti to get rid of the itch and then see if vw bring out the twin turbo 4wd gtd :grin:
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Could go for the gti to get rid of the itch and then see if vw bring out the twin turbo 4wd gtd :grin:
It's the car a lot of us want but doubt they do that as VW seem to have a very distinct profile for the 3 versions and changing the GTD like that would step on the GTI and particularly the R with the increased BHP a Bi-Turbo gives
AWD could go on the GTD now, the Audi 170 and the now 184 BHP have it as an option so its obviously something VW want to steer clear of.
Be interesting to see what happens about N02 emissions too, think there maybe something coming in that area also (think right in saying that latest diesels are still poor in that area)
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On fuel economy, my GTI PP gives up to 34 on my 5 mile commute, in the winter that will be sub 30. If I take the motorway route home which is 19 miles 45+ is easy, 50 is the best but was so slow and boring that I'm unlikely to ever replicate it. On a long distance motorway trip (200+ miles) I usually average 41 with a few 50 zones, tailbacks and periods at 70-80mph. I find the economy very acceptable and better than expected. My previous car mostly did 30-33 on a long run and 26 on the commutes so a good improvement :smiley:
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Could go for the gti to get rid of the itch and then see if vw bring out the twin turbo 4wd gtd :grin:
It's the car a lot of us want but doubt they do that as VW seem to have a very distinct profile for the 3 versions and changing the GTD like that would step on the GTI and particularly the R with the increased BHP a Bi-Turbo gives
AWD could go on the GTD now, the Audi 170 and the now 184 BHP have it as an option so its obviously something VW want to steer clear of.
Be interesting to see what happens about N02 emissions too, think there maybe something coming in that area also (think right in saying that latest diesels are still poor in that area)
I've also noticed that a few members on Audi sport forum are looking at/have ordered the new 190 2.0 TFSI over the 184 2.0 TDI. Both available in quattro..
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I've also noticed that a few members on Audi sport forum are looking at/have ordered the new 190 2.0 TFSI over the 184 2.0 TDI. Both available in quattro..
Any reason for that? Is the 190 petrol significantly cheaper than the 184 oil burner?
I'm guessing that it probably is - isn't a GTI cheaper than a GTD?
The one thing I admire Audi (and BMW I think) is that AWD is just a tick box option - its not restricted to certain editions or engine or gearbox types.
Having said that though, its an arm and a leg, you loose a lot of boot space and it adds weight (although I have been told by a friend that in the R the extra rear weight actually settles the Mk7 over bumpy old UK roads)
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Could go for the gti to get rid of the itch and then see if vw bring out the twin turbo 4wd gtd :grin:
It's the car a lot of us want but doubt they do that as VW seem to have a very distinct profile for the 3 versions and changing the GTD like that would step on the GTI and particularly the R with the increased BHP a Bi-Turbo gives
AWD could go on the GTD now, the Audi 170 and the now 184 BHP have it as an option so its obviously something VW want to steer clear of.
Be interesting to see what happens about N02 emissions too, think there maybe something coming in that area also (think right in saying that latest diesels are still poor in that area)
I've also noticed that a few members on Audi sport forum are looking at/have ordered the new 190 2.0 TFSI over the 184 2.0 TDI. Both available in quattro..
Seriously looked at the new Audi with Quattro, but they somehow came out as higher lease cost and with less options than the R, and the S3 was not even a selection option in base version. - Think would have gone R anyway but made decision easier,
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Gtd is cheaper than the gti. Vw seem to be one if the few manufacturers to have a cheaper diesel model.
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I've also noticed that a few members on Audi sport forum are looking at/have ordered the new 190 2.0 TFSI over the 184 2.0 TDI. Both available in quattro..
Any reason for that? Is the 190 petrol significantly cheaper than the 184 oil burner?
I'm guessing that it probably is - isn't a GTI cheaper than a GTD?
The one thing I admire Audi (and BMW I think) is that AWD is just a tick box option - its not restricted to certain editions or engine or gearbox types.
Having said that though, its an arm and a leg, you loose a lot of boot space and it adds weight (although I have been told by a friend that in the R the extra rear weight actually settles the Mk7 over bumpy old UK roads)
I think its people again not doing enough annual mileage for a diesel/wanting the more quieter, refined petrol.
I don't really go on ASN as much as I used to, but take a bucket of popcorn with me when I do. :grin:
Just looked at there is about £400 difference in price and quattro is now only available from Sport trim upwards.
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Short answer- when I ordered my company car the R wasn’t available or released so went with a GTI PP.
My GTI is on 76k in 26 months so have just ordered a new car and although I test drove an R for a few days and thus did back to backs with my GTI, I wasn’t blown away. It didn’t really feel much faster - the dials said it was faster - but it wasn’t the contrast I was expecting. Both were manual transmission cars so I would think the DSG might feel a bit quicker and it was dry when I had it though.
R is a cracking car and until this week I was about to order one but I prefer the GTI interior (it is what you spend the most time looking at after all) and it didn’t feel much different but would cost me a decent wedge more money in tax and contribution on my car scheme. I also had 2 days with a M140i which changed my mind - not that it is better, it is just different I suppose. I found the Rs strengths were the M140i’s weakness and vice versa. Might put a review up at some point incase anyone is interested in a GTI drivers opinion/comparison of the 3.
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Totally agree with this, after 2 years in a GTI PP I took an R for a test drive and was sadly underwhelmed. I was expecting more of a step up but was just too similar to justify the outlay/exclusivity/downgrade in looks (IMO). As this was my 2nd GTI on the bounce (ED30 previous) I couldnt have had 3 performance Golfs in a row anyhoo, variety being the spice of life and all. I ordered a shadow black Focus RS in Feb, should be arriving in Nov.
Ps would be interested in the review
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How would a remapped gtd go against a pp gti? Would the consensus still be gti?
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Totally agree with this, after 2 years in a GTI PP I took an R for a test drive and was sadly underwhelmed. I was expecting more of a step up but was just too similar to justify the outlay/exclusivity/downgrade in looks (IMO). As this was my 2nd GTI on the bounce (ED30 previous) I couldnt have had 3 performance Golfs in a row anyhoo, variety being the spice of life and all. I ordered a shadow black Focus RS in Feb, should be arriving in Nov.
Ps would be interested in the review
Were you allowed to really wind it up on the test drive? The R flexes most of its muscle above 5k revs. If I keep mine below 4k revs, it's barely quicker than a GTD driven hard. Sometimes you get an enthusiastic salesman (if you're accompanied on a test drive, and sometimes they sh!t themselves when you take it above 3k revs.
The RS will undoubtedly be a great drive and if Ford keep it a properly rare car, the residuals should be great, it is a lot thirstier than the R though (if that bothers you).
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How would a remapped gtd go against a pp gti? Would the consensus still be gti?
Mine with the DTUK box was noticeably (but not hugely) quicker than a few GTIs and equal to a Focus ST (250ps) once moving - but a bit laggy off the line (if it isn't tramping on Bridgestones).
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Totally agree with this, after 2 years in a GTI PP I took an R for a test drive and was sadly underwhelmed. I was expecting more of a step up but was just too similar to justify the outlay/exclusivity/downgrade in looks (IMO). As this was my 2nd GTI on the bounce (ED30 previous) I couldnt have had 3 performance Golfs in a row anyhoo, variety being the spice of life and all. I ordered a shadow black Focus RS in Feb, should be arriving in Nov.
Ps would be interested in the review
Were you allowed to really wind it up on the test drive? The R flexes most of its muscle above 5k revs. If I keep mine below 4k revs, it's barely quicker than a GTD driven hard. Sometimes you get an enthusiastic salesman (if you're accompanied on a test drive, and sometimes they sh!t themselves when you take it above 3k revs.
The RS will undoubtedly be a great drive and if Ford keep it a properly rare car, the residuals should be great, it is a lot thirstier than the R though (if that bothers you).
I actually took 2 out, in the first one the salesman directed me to a quiet country lane and said "Give it the beans down here". I redlined it in the first 2 gears then dropped it into third and had massive clutch slip and zero acceleration! I tried again and got same result. Salesman did know what to say. His only response was "That's why you should buy new!" . We went back to the dealership and got another which was fine.
My thoughts summarised were that the Golf R is definately faster, (as you say it's noticeable in the higher revs). It also feels more planted and I felt like I was sitting lower, which were all plusses. There is no doubt it's an awesome car, the positives didn't outweigh the negatives for me coming from a GTI PP personally. I dare say I'll be in a Mk 8 or 9 Golf R though after having a change.
Really looking good forward to the RS though, the test drive blew me away. Quite linear acceleration which didn't push you back in your seat as much as I expected and the interior isn't up to much but it just felt like the whole car has been engineered with fun in mind.
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R is a cracking car and until this week I was about to order one but I prefer the GTI interior (it is what you spend the most time looking at after all)
Do you spend most of your time looking at the interior? Can honestly say I spend minimal amount of time looking at my car's interior. Spend most of my time looking out of the window.
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R is a cracking car and until this week I was about to order one but I prefer the GTI interior (it is what you spend the most time looking at after all)
Do you spend most of your time looking at the interior? Can honestly say I spend minimal amount of time looking at my car's interior. Spend most of my time looking out of the window.
It's as much the feel as the look. Recent Vauxhall interiors look surprisingly good, the interior of a female colleague's Vauxhall Adam has an interior that is a match for the wife's Audi A1 (which isn't half as good as it thinks it is).
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MarcusP: Clutch slip on 2 Rs during test drive? I presume that they were both DSGs? I say that because Manual Rs are rarer than rocking horse sh!te as dealer demos, I couldn't find a manual R in the whole North East to try when doing the rounds for test drives prior to ordering. I had to try a DSG R and a manual GTI to get the whole picture.
Maybe the DSG unit backs off a bit when being stretched to the limit, as a safety device?
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MarcusP: Clutch slip on 2 Rs during test drive? I presume that they were both DSGs? I say that because Manual Rs are rarer than rocking horse sh!te as dealer demos, I couldn't find a manual R in the whole North East to try when doing the rounds for test drives prior to ordering. I had to try a DSG R and a manual GTI to get the whole picture.
Maybe the DSG unit backs off a bit when being stretched to the limit, as a safety device?
Sorry, I was unclear, they were both manual. This was at Parkway Derby. The 2nd R I took out behaved itself and didn't have any clutch slip.
My ED30 was dsg, which although a decent system which performed well, blunted the driving experience for me. Totally get the appeal for some though.
Agree with the interior comments too. The Focus looks like someone's shoved an 80's stereo in the centre of the dash but it's of little concern compared to everything else it brings to the table.
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The RS is worth buying for rarity value alone.
You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
I love it's looks and could live with the interior.
It's a shame I'm nearly 53 so would feel a complete tit in it :laugh:
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Haha I'm not far behind at 44.
Oh well might as well get into the RS mindset.... YOLO!(?)😂
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You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
Yawn.
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It's lucky we are all different, have different tastes and look for different things in car. Otherwise it would be a dull place to exist with everyone driving the same car.
I for one do not like the looks exterior/interior of the Focus RS. Also you would not get me in one. It all looks a little too plastic, cheap and unrefined to me. I currently own a GTI PP and am awaiting the arrival of my Golf R in next week or two. I have never liked fords and just cannot bring myself to getting one. Yet although i don't like fords others will and I am not going to condemn then for it as we all have different tastes and they would probably say similar things about a Golf R.
Buying a car just because it may be rare is not enough of a reason for me to pass over the cash. I have found the GTI PP I currently own an amazing car, infact the best I have owned to date. I hope the Golf R when it arrives will surpass my experience of the GTI.
To me buying/owning a car is about the whole experience, not just willy waving about performance stats and figures, but also the overall drive/experience of the car along with the aesthetics and finish of the car inside and out. To me it's all about the subtler detailing of the Golf GTI & especially R that I like about the Golfs compared to their rivals. :smiley:
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To me buying/owning a car is about the whole experience, not just willy waving about performance stats and figures, but also the overall drive/experience of the car along with the aesthetics and finish of the car inside and out. To me it's all about the subtler detailing of the Golf GTI & especially R that I like about the Golfs compared to their rivals. :smiley:
Amen to that Brenbo. :smiley:
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You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
Yawn.
Should have added 'only joking' to my post, just for you Rebecca :kiss:
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It's lucky we are all different, have different tastes and look for different things in car. Otherwise it would be a dull place to exist with everyone driving the same car.
I for one do not like the looks exterior/interior of the Focus RS. Also you would not get me in one. It all looks a little too plastic, cheap and unrefined to me. I currently own a GTI PP and am awaiting the arrival of my Golf R in next week or two. I have never liked fords and just cannot bring myself to getting one. Yet although i don't like fords others will and I am not going to condemn then for it as we all have different tastes and they would probably say similar things about a Golf R.
Buying a car just because it may be rare is not enough of a reason for me to pass over the cash. I have found the GTI PP I currently own an amazing car, infact the best I have owned to date. I hope the Golf R when it arrives will surpass my experience of the GTI.
To me buying/owning a car is about the whole experience, not just willy waving about performance stats and figures, but also the overall drive/experience of the car along with the aesthetics and finish of the car inside and out. To me it's all about the subtler detailing of the Golf GTI & especially R that I like about the Golfs compared to their rivals. :smiley:
Brenbo, could you please stop chipping in with your well thought out and reasonable posts, that's what I've got a wife for :grin:
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You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
Yawn.
Should have added 'only joking' to my post, just for you Rebecca :kiss:
I'm not the only R owner on here, there's a few of us.
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You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
Yawn.
Should have added 'only joking' to my post, just for you Rebecca :kiss:
I'm not the only R owner on here, there's a few of us.
Like to think of us a MK 7 Golf 'performance variants' owners ;)
Love my GTD and waiting to see if love the upcoming R as much as stay in the club :cool:
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I'd like to think of us as performance car owners. I'd never tie myself to one brand but have loved my time in my ED30 and GTI PP and will surely be back to VW at some point.
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Only chipping with well thought words of wisdom as I have a Golf R on it's way and need to justify ordering it. :grin:
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You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
Yawn.
Should have added 'only joking' to my post, just for you Rebecca :kiss:
I'm not the only R owner on here, there's a few of us.
You're not kidding :rolleyes:
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Like to think of us a MK 7 Golf 'performance variants' owners ;)
Love my GTD and waiting to see if love the upcoming R as much as stay in the club :cool:
Yes I totally agree, we all have Mk7 Golf Performance variants - all brilliant cars in their own right, and whichever one you choose to drive, like to think there is a mutual respect amongst owners on here, which is why the 'broken record' comments about common as muck Rs are a bit tiresome.
But ignore me, I'm just in a bad mood because I haven't got mine atm, due to other idiot drivers that keep "tripping over" it. :wink:
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You won't be tripping over them like you do with the R :whistle:
Yawn.
Should have added 'only joking' to my post, just for you Rebecca :kiss:
I'm not the only R owner on here, there's a few of us.
You're not kidding :rolleyes:
One of the reasons I decided to spend more time over on the R forum was some time ago sensed that GTI owners on here were getting bored of all the R talk and this is the GTI forum. But still like this forum so nice to be on here without the usual cliched R quips.
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Can I ask a question purely out of curiosity?
Is the R's higher power over the GTI just a case of a higher state of tune, or is the R engine entirely different?
If the former, then would an aftermarket remap to a GTI give you the R power but with the GTI styling?
Obviously you wouldn't get the 4 wheel drive, but how easy is it to get R power with GTI looks? Or isn't it that simple (yes I know you'd risk your warranty, I'm thinking of at the 3 year point)?
Bubba.
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Can I ask a question purely out of curiosity?
Is the R's higher power over the GTI just a case of a higher state of tune, or is the R engine entirely different?
If the former, then would an aftermarket remap to a GTI give you the R power but with the GTI styling?
Obviously you wouldn't get the 4 wheel drive, but how easy is it to get R power with GTI looks? Or isn't it that simple (yes I know you'd risk your warranty, I'm thinking of at the 3 year point)?
Bubba.
Yea its called the GTI Clubsport matey :smiley:
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Can I ask a question purely out of curiosity?
Is the R's higher power over the GTI just a case of a higher state of tune, or is the R engine entirely different?
If the former, then would an aftermarket remap to a GTI give you the R power but with the GTI styling?
Obviously you wouldn't get the 4 wheel drive, but how easy is it to get R power with GTI looks? Or isn't it that simple (yes I know you'd risk your warranty, I'm thinking of at the 3 year point)?
Bubba.
Yes the GTI and the R share the same EA888 TSI engine but tuned to different degrees. In addition to that the R has other modified/uprated components - namely: cylinder head, camshaft, exhaust valves, valve seats and springs, pistons, injection valves and larger intercooler and IHI turbocharger.
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As Rebecca says, there's lots of differences in the internals, it's not as simple as remapping the GTI engine. The Clubsport has a "boost" thingy that gives you 290bhp for a few seconds only (?) but it's 265bhp most of the time. Biggest issue with trying to squeeze more power from the GTI is traction, all that power going to the front wheels only.
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One of the reasons I decided to spend more time over on the R forum was some time ago sensed that GTI owners on here were getting bored of all the R talk and this is the GTI forum. But still like this forum so nice to be on here without the usual cliched R quips.
... funny that!
I always sensed that the GTI owners looked down on the GTD owners.
Reminds me of this sketch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0)
But lets face it, the Golf R is very much the Daddy!
Though I feel that the GTI is still the slightly more practical warm hatch.
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One of the reasons I decided to spend more time over on the R forum was some time ago sensed that GTI owners on here were getting bored of all the R talk and this is the GTI forum. But still like this forum so nice to be on here without the usual cliched R quips.
... funny that!
I always sensed that the GTI owners looked down on the GTD owners.
Reminds me of this sketch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0)
What? Broad brush statement lol.
Some can mistake the criticism of a particular car model, with looking down on the owner and their car, when in fact they are critiquing the model of car only and it has nothing to do with a perception of the owner. Ppl take things personally when its about cars only and nothing more.
On a wider point I have mentioned Renault and Ford before, and my admiration for the hot hatches they produce let alone the VW range, and seen comments that appear to be snooty about the apparent Premium Brand of VW compared to lesser brands. We often criticize brands before we even get to the quality of the cars, models, wheels, HP, mpg etc. Nothing to do with looking down on anyone though.
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Biggest issue with trying to squeeze more power from the GTI is traction, all that power going to the front wheels only.
Completely agree, I modded my MK6 manual GTi to Revo stage 2 (claimed 300bhp/350lbft) and clutch/traction were it's limitations. It was a great fun car and definitely more fun than my standard R is currently but the R won't be staying long after it's had it's first birthday next year :evil:
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I ran a modified Mk6 GTI with similar power to weight ratio to the Mk7 R. I chose the R, firstly because I found myself limited on insurance companies by the mods, I can insure the R for less than my modified GTI and secondly just because I wanted something a little different.
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One of the reasons I decided to spend more time over on the R forum was some time ago sensed that GTI owners on here were getting bored of all the R talk and this is the GTI forum. But still like this forum so nice to be on here without the usual cliched R quips.
... funny that!
I always sensed that the GTI owners looked down on the GTD owners.
Reminds me of this sketch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0)
What? Broad brush statement lol.
Some can mistake the criticism of a particular car model, with looking down on the owner and their car, when in fact they are critiquing the model of car only and it has nothing to do with a perception of the owner. Ppl take things personally when its about cars only and nothing more.
On a wider point I have mentioned Renault and Ford before, and my admiration for the hot hatches they produce let alone the VW range, and seen comments that appear to be snooty about the apparent Premium Brand of VW compared to lesser brands. We often criticize brands before we even get to the quality of the cars, models, wheels, HP, mpg etc. Nothing to do with looking down on anyone though.
Spot on 👍
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... funny that!
I always sensed that the GTI owners looked down on the GTD owners.
Reminds me of this sketch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VxkltwS9g0)
What? Broad brush statement lol.
Some can mistake the criticism of a particular car model, with looking down on the owner and their car, when in fact they are critiquing the model of car only and it has nothing to do with a perception of the owner. Ppl take things personally when its about cars only and nothing more.
On a wider point I have mentioned Renault and Ford before, and my admiration for the hot hatches they produce let alone the VW range, and seen comments that appear to be snooty about the apparent Premium Brand of VW compared to lesser brands. We often criticize brands before we even get to the quality of the cars, models, wheels, HP, mpg etc. Nothing to do with looking down on anyone though.
Agree with this. It's about the cars.
Owners of one car should not be looking down on owners of another, if they are, that says more about the person doing it than anything to do with the actual cars. There may be a perceived hierarchy of performance Golfs, but that's irrelevant - there's 4 (inc ClubSport) variants and each a slightly different offering all with pluses and minuses. You take your pick according to what suits your multiple criteria best. We are all enthusiasts on here. Constructive comment and criticism is healthy and good thing and welcome. Making it personal isn't.
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I would quite happily drive any of the so called performance Golfs :smiley:
I only need a GTD for the full set :whistle:
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For me the GTi PP DSG was exactly what I needed as a daily commuter car. It's better looking than the R (can't believe VW then brought out the R-line to confuse things even more). Do I need the extra power? No - that's why I have a 911 at weekends :laugh:
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I would quite happily drive any of the so called performance Golfs :smiley:
I only need a GTD for the full set :whistle:
Snap! :grin: