Author Topic: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?  (Read 48667 times)

Offline Bubba Nutkin

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #30 on: 05 September 2016, 22:48 »
I'm probably in the minority in that I'm not that arsed how fast my car is.
Where can you drive fast these days unless you do track days?
I just like the look, inside and out, of my GTI  :smiley:

I agree with Kalimon.  I live near Southampton and unless you get well out into Hampshire countryside, you cannot drive fast around here - too much traffic.  So the R's extra power would be wasted.  I had a BMW 335i tuned to well over 400bhp  and using anything like that car's full performance was just plain stupid around here.
I find the GTI.......brisk........but easily fast enough.  It's cheaper than the R, a bit more economical, and I think looks better - I really dislike the R's exhaust pipes.  Oh, and we never get snow so I don't need 4WD.
I suppose it's good that VW offer such a choice of variants; they're all very, very good cars.
Bubba.
mk7 GTI now sold.  Gone but not forgotten.

Offline scanesare

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #31 on: 05 September 2016, 22:55 »
There is a Cupra Sub 8 which will do the Nurburgring in 7:58. As mentioned above the Golf R has a time of 8:14.

Yes I know  :wink:

As far as lap times go, the Clubsport and the Cupra are very close (check Hockenheimring and Sachsenring published lap times) as they are based on an almost identical, more track focused set-up than any other VAG hot-hatch. Which is why they top every test within the group in terms of lap times.

Offline Daz Auto

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #32 on: 05 September 2016, 23:19 »
Oh, and we never get snow so I don't need 4WD.
You really don't need 4WD for snow. Google search 4WD myths.

From one of the articles...
"Before you start flaming, I'm not anti-AWD. Rather, I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.

However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop."

Edit: Everybody should read this one - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/the-myth-of-all-wheel-drive-and-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/
« Last Edit: 05 September 2016, 23:24 by Daz Auto »

10/8/2017 - GTI Performance, Red,5dr DS

Offline kalimon

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #33 on: 06 September 2016, 07:04 »
Oh, and we never get snow so I don't need 4WD.
You really don't need 4WD for snow. Google search 4WD myths.

From one of the articles...
"Before you start flaming, I'm not anti-AWD. Rather, I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.

However, my experience—hard-earned from wrecking more than one AWD vehicle during snow-handling tests for a tire company—is that AWD is counter-productive when the roads are slick. At the same time AWD doesn't improve your handling, it does offer an overly optimistic sense of available traction, and it provides the potential to be going so much faster when you need to stop."

Edit: Everybody should read this one - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/the-myth-of-all-wheel-drive-and-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/
Interesting article, thanks for posting it🙂
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Offline The ANT

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #34 on: 06 September 2016, 08:00 »
4wd can improve cornering speeds on loose surfaces and in low traction situations, but only with techniques that allow it to help, which aren't safe on the road, a closed rally stage is a different matter, you get the car sliding and use the cars power and traction of the 4wd to pull it in to the apex of the corner. It works in motorsport but not on open public roads.
Suffering from a severe and unforgiving case of GTItis


mjh_056

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #35 on: 06 September 2016, 08:40 »
4wd can improve cornering speeds on loose surfaces and in low traction situations, but only with techniques that allow it to help, which aren't safe on the road, a closed rally stage is a different matter, you get the car sliding and use the cars power and traction of the 4wd to pull it in to the apex of the corner. It works in motorsport but not on open public roads.

This is good run of posts as its important that anyone selecting AWD knows the reality of what getting on normal roads.

1. Getaway will be seamless with no tramping and that's in the wet too
2. There is a marginal sense of greater security when pushing through lanes etc but my present GTD feels pretty secure also, so this alone is not a reason to go AWD
3. The AWD will help a little to get and keep moving in snow from stationary
4. The AWD on standard tyres is no better than any conventional FWD car in snow when moving along, you will slide as much as anyone due to the basic physics of tyres grip to the snow, you could have 8WD on standard tyres and it would make no difference.

These comments are from 6 years driving Quattro which took in the last serious snow we had and is pretty much the fact.

The single thing that frustrates me the most is the having to feather the acceleration to avoid tramp which even though improved on better tyres is still an issue in the wet. Like to see my gap and go without worrying going to be standing still while car finds its grip.

If AWD was available on GTD would have likely chosen it

So do not select AWD on this type of car for snow or greatly increased handling, you only select AWD if getaway is a real issue for you. Winter tyres and Chains would be better investment on FWD car.

For me, everything you read and see on the R points to a special package so its a 3 year experiment to see how the whole experience of driving this next level of car and resolving my biggest present issue is worth the extra £. Basically scratching the itch

Offline Daz Auto

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #36 on: 06 September 2016, 09:24 »
Interesting article, thanks for posting it🙂
I also post on the Audi Sport Forum. I was researching a car for my wife. Like many I thought she may have been safer getting a 4WD. Some of the forum discussions ended in arguments and me being called an idiot. :shocked: I still post there on the subject, but now I just post links to articles and videos. I also ask for articles and videos (which are not adverts) that show how 'safe' 4WD is on snow and ice. There are none! That ends all arguments before they begin :evil:

I can tell that some people over there still don't like me posting that quattro is no safer. Maybe they are in Audi sales?

Winter 2 years ago, there was just 1 really frosty weekend. The local garage was full of crashed 4X4s. I often explain it this way - 4WD will help get you up a hill, but it will not help you getting down it.

On winter tyres, both our cars go really well, but more importantly stop really well in winter conditions. I worry less about my wife driving in winter. What concerns me now is other drivers in 4x4 crashing into her :angry:

Here is a good video on the subject of 4WD in the snow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow
« Last Edit: 06 September 2016, 09:47 by Daz Auto »

10/8/2017 - GTI Performance, Red,5dr DS

Online Watts

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #37 on: 06 September 2016, 09:50 »
Just visit northern Scandinavia in winter and count the 4x4s, you're unlikely to need more than the fingers on one hand. They just drive regular cars like us but with winter tyres.
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Offline scanesare

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #38 on: 06 September 2016, 09:56 »
Nice, I'm rather surprised really to find out that the average forum misconception (or plain ignorance) about what the AWD is and how it works (especially Haldex impementations) that keeps the myths strong about better grip/handling is not strong here. By my experience in many forums this is not usually the case. Still remember an epic thread where someone was swearing he could feel his Haldex Quattro pulling him to the apex once he had overdone it, when everybody was trying to explain to him that was the XDS/ESC intervening and that in the described scenario it just wasn't mechanically or physically possible to get any benefits from the 4 wheels being driven (quite the opposite). Still not sure he's convinced as of today...

To a few Audi owners' defence, I have read some of the best arguments and technical discussions against the myth of AWD offering better handlind/cornering right in Audi forums. It's so much more important when that comes from actual owners.

Offline Daz Auto

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Re: Golf R... Why buy a Golf GTI?
« Reply #39 on: 06 September 2016, 10:03 »
So do not select AWD on this type of car for snow or greatly increased handling, you only select AWD if getaway is a real issue for you. Winter tyres and Chains would be better investment on FWD car.

For me, everything you read and see on the R points to a special package so its a 3 year experiment to see how the whole experience of driving this next level of car and resolving my biggest present issue is worth the extra £. Basically scratching the itch
Agree. AWD is a performance feature and not a safety feature.

It is disappointing that the Mk7 GTD and GTI still suffer from tramping. I though the PP might have resolved the issue, but apparently not. I have had a few big moments where tramping nearly caused me to cause an accident.

10/8/2017 - GTI Performance, Red,5dr DS