Author Topic: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .  (Read 13964 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #20 on: 13 September 2008, 15:17 »
Well after reading this thread I checked my spare tyre pressure and it was only 3.4 bar!

Done the deed and inflated it to the correct 4.2 bar.

Thanks for the reply.  :smiley:

So this proves that of the two who have checked, two have found a considerable pressure loss.

So come on the rest of you - it's dry out there, get 'em out and get checking.  :rolleyes:  :smiley:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #21 on: 13 September 2008, 15:25 »
....Yes, but don't you have to set it so it has a datum to subsequently alert a deviation from? In other words, its alert system relies on human input to reset the datum.

Your are correct that it needs to be "set", but this is initially done by the stealer as part of the PDI, and should be reset, again by the stealer on every service where the pressures are checked.  If the "initiation" procedure wasn't carried out, then the TPMS will give a constant alert anyway!  This can all be found in the workshop manuals listed in the sticky.  :wink:

So, pedantically, yes, it does need setting - but in reality, once it has been set, that's it - just wait for it to tell you your boots are leaking.  But the trouble is, it don't - unless you are virtually on your rims, and by then, it will be too late.

So my initial conclusion still stands - the system on the Golf is useless  :sick:  :angry: - unlike the system which Audi uses (which monitors the actual pressure inside each tyre).  :cool:

....I beg to differ, TT - The initial setting may well be done under PDI but subsequently, according to the handbook, you are meant to reset it after any change of tyre/s or after changing pressures - Which is what I do by switching on ignition and pressing the button and holding until the beep.

Audi's system is doubtless better but you pay much more for an Audi.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #22 on: 13 September 2008, 15:26 »
Finlay, I had been after something like this ever since I found out that the GTI had a space saver spare wheel and as I was doing alot of motorway driving at the time I needed a full size spare wheel Doing 50mph on a motorway is not very safe IMHO plus my round trip on the motorway was around 86miles and the space saver has a limit of 50miles as far as I know.

Just a couple of minor corrections.

You also stated, in your own opinion that space savers are not very safe.  When a space saver is correctly inflated to 4.2bar/61psi (a typo above), then it is perfectly safe, when used within the constraints of the big yellow sticker on the side.  OK, they arn't going to be beating Sabine Schmitz round the Nurburgring, but that isn't what they are designed for.  They arn't meant to be a "replacement" for your Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, or your Conti SportContact3 - but are meant to allow you to continue your journey indefiately, but using a bit of common sense, by sacrificing any sporting pretensions.  :smug:

The only reason a space saver would feel unsafe, is if it was not correctly inflated.  :nerd:

I think he stated that doing 50mph on a motorway isn't safe in his opinion, nowhere in that quote does it say "space savers are not very safe" :smug:

Erm, and if you read my post, you will clearly see that I accredited the safeness to Bobs opinion!  :sad:  <sigh>

But we don't know if that "feeling" of being unsafe was in fact down to low pressure in the space saver.  Based on the two reports in this thread which both confirm a considerable pressure loss, then I would very strongly suspect that Bob also had a significant pressure loss too.  :smug:

Furthermore, these space savers will have been comprehensively checked to make sure they are up to the job - and if there was any doubt about them being "unsafe at 50mph", then that BFO yellow sticker on the wheel will be downgraded to a lower speed - but it ain't, so they are 100% safe at 50mph.  Just 'cause they look mighty wierd (which they certainly do), that shouldn't be reason for doubting them.
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #23 on: 13 September 2008, 15:31 »
So come on the rest of you - it's dry out there, get 'em out and get checking.  :rolleyes:  :smiley:

.... :rolleyes: Every time I'm nice and comfy indoors (currently perving on Charlie Webster watching the GP2 race at Monza on ITV4) you tell me to go out for a walk to my garage and get the car out, which I have to do to open the boot fully.

I've got a lot of driving on Monday (TTshop and VWR) so you can fecking wait until Sunday when I'll be checking my tyre pressures and resetting my TM button anyway! :grin: :wink: :smiley:
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Offline Mew

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #24 on: 13 September 2008, 15:33 »
You also stated, in your own opinion that space savers are not very safe. 

I still don't see where you got that from?

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #25 on: 13 September 2008, 15:40 »
....Yes, but don't you have to set it so it has a datum to subsequently alert a deviation from? In other words, its alert system relies on human input to reset the datum.

Your are correct that it needs to be "set", but this is initially done by the stealer as part of the PDI, and should be reset, again by the stealer on every service where the pressures are checked.  If the "initiation" procedure wasn't carried out, then the TPMS will give a constant alert anyway!  This can all be found in the workshop manuals listed in the sticky.  :wink:

So, pedantically, yes, it does need setting - but in reality, once it has been set, that's it - just wait for it to tell you your boots are leaking.  But the trouble is, it don't - unless you are virtually on your rims, and by then, it will be too late.

So my initial conclusion still stands - the system on the Golf is useless  :sick:  :angry: - unlike the system which Audi uses (which monitors the actual pressure inside each tyre).  :cool:

....I beg to differ, TT - The initial setting may well be done under PDI but subsequently, according to the handbook, you are meant to reset it after any change of tyre/s or after changing pressures - Which is what I do by switching on ignition and pressing the button and holding until the beep.

I'm sorry, but I very, very strongly disagree, and I feel that you are now trying to "cloud the water"!  Lets get this perfectly clear - of course, IF you change wheels/tyres, or IF you change pressures, THEN you should pressand hold the button.  That is an accepted fact, and it clearly states this in the owners manual.  Period.  Move on.

However, we were NOT referring to the above!  What we were referring to, is when the TPMS had already been set (after any checking and adjustment of pressures) - how how useless the system is at detecting any significant pressure loss.  This "complaint" has been very clearly documented in the US NHTSA, and their report is very critical of this specific system NOT being able to detect pressure loss until it is way too late.

I really don't see how you can not support such a clear point of view!  :rolleyes:

Furthermore, you should NOT continually be pressing the button as a matter of routine, UNLESS you have specifically checked (and altered if necessary) the pressures!  :rolleyes:

Audi's system is doubtless better but you pay much more for an Audi.

Firstly, both systems require identical operation by the driver, and secondly, the difference in the price between the two systems is very insignificant.

But the Audi system will warn me of a pressure difference of around 4psi - yet the Golf system won't warn until about a 20psi difference.  Secondly, the Audi system will specifically tell me if a wheel has been changed, the Golf system is unable to do so.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #26 on: 13 September 2008, 15:42 »
You also stated, in your own opinion that space savers are not very safe. 

I still don't see where you got that from?

Did you actually read the full detail of the relevent posts?  I specifically highlighted it just for you in reply #22 of this thread!  :rolleyes:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Mew

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #27 on: 13 September 2008, 15:45 »
Yep, take away all bold bits, where does he say that spacesavers are not safe? All i see is driving at 50mph isn't very safe, and from reading that i don't take it to be questioning whether or not the tyre itself is safe

edit:  :rolleyes:

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #28 on: 13 September 2008, 15:55 »
....Do stay cool, TT - We are talking at slight cross-purposes it now appears.

Amidst all your words, I missed that you were talking about after changing tyres/pressures etc and about the point at which the system bothers to inform you about pressure loss.

Presumably, although the Audi system is better, being more sophisticated, it'll be more expensive - Nothing wrong in that.
 
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Pram wheels / space-saver spares . . .
« Reply #29 on: 13 September 2008, 16:04 »
....Do stay cool, TT - We are talking at slight cross-purposes it now appears.

Amidst all your words, I missed that you were talking about after changing tyres/pressures etc and about the point at which the system bothers to inform you about pressure loss.

Presumably, although the Audi system is better, being more sophisticated, it'll be more expensive - Nothing wrong in that.
 
:cool:

OK, crossed wires and all that (though I did think I made myself clear  :rolleyes:).  Anyway, no worries, I'm chilled.  :smiley:

But the point on the "Audi" system is that it really isn't much more expensive than the system which the Golf uses.  And just for clarity, the system which Audi uses isn't their "own" system.  It is a commercially available system, made by Beru, and can also be found on other makes, including Renault, Citroen, Peugeot and Ford.  Again, the system on the Golf is a commercially available system, made by ATE.  So my point is, they are both "off the shelf" systems, costing similar prices - so why does VW fit the shyte one, yet Audi (and Renault, Ford, etc) fit a hugely more accurate system!
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