Author Topic: new boots time - Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric vs Mich Pilot Sport PS2s  (Read 12973 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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It's supposed to be better practice to put your deeper treads on the rear axle

Absolutely spot on there RR.  Indeed, it is now the official advice of both the tyre manufactures and the car industry in general.


There's a logic in having the strengths of the Assym's construction as the driven tyres, i.e. on front axle.

What specifically is the logic there?  :smiley:

I know of something slightly different from Pirelli, which doesn't support Goodyears view.  Linky: http://www.pirelli.co.uk/web/catalog/car-suv-van/catalogo_sd.page?categoria=/catalog/car-suv-van/car/summer&prodotto=14275&uri=/pirellityre/en_GB/browser/xml/catalog/car-suv-van/CAR_FITM_PZeroSystem_SUM.xml&vehicleType=CAR-SUV-VAN

Edited for speelong mistooks
« Last Edit: 10 August 2008, 11:45 by Teutonic_Tamer »
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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....Whereas a focussed driver will of course primarily consider a tyre's performance,

Agreed - and in my case, only a tyres performance, and nothing else

let's not kid ourselves that most of us also like eye-candy.

Yup, agreed again, but not in tyres.

The tread of the GSD3's do look the business

Sorry, but don't agree there.  But that is probably because I'm aware of the inherent problems of all directional tyres, and why therefore I don't like the look of any directionals.

I've even heard a lady who knows feck all about any tyres say "they look the business" (I'm pretty sure it was my new tyres she was referring to at the time!).

Women eh!  I bet she was actually referring to you big long thing which needed a blow!  :evil:

And Goodyear have confirmed that the "look" of a tyre can effect sales.

And whilst I agree that looks do affect sales, IMVHO I would strongly advise not to consider aesthetics for such an important product.  ETTO, though.

In a perfect world, tyres both perform well and look good

Yup, but we have to make to with what we have at the mo - and I take tyre performance over looks any day.  :smiley:


A bit like Porsche cars do both (imo) for example.

Now your are talking . . .  :drool:

Would anyone here say these look cool? : -



....I wouldn't!

Agreed, they look shyte - which means they'll sell like hot cakes in America!  :rolleyes:

I've actually seen them before.  Whatever fancy name they give em, no matter how good they are, I'd still rather pour acid into my eyes rather than having them on my RS.  Imagine parking up somewhere, and returning to find that some scrotes had filled the holes with rotten spuds and the like!  :sick:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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budget Nankang ditch-finders look the same and would have saved me about £100!  :grin:

ROTFLMAO - how true!  And you can put Khumo and Trayal in that same category too.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??

....Is that GSD3 F1's or Assym F1's on the front axle?

Goodyear were very clear in their advice to only fit Assym's on AWD/quattro if all 4 tyres. But we know that the R32 is mostly FWD with AWD as and when needed - 80/20? 60/40?

F1 Assym's on the front and the sport max on the rears. The Sport maxx still have a fair bit of tread left... so I just thought it would be waste to change them. Not noticed any problems as yet... what should i be looking out for?? I encounter quite a few RA's on the way home and some good DC's to give it some.

Try to find a reasonably open (wide) mid to high speed bend, with some kind of a bump mid corner - something like a manhole cover, or a tarmac repair where there is a difference in surface level.  If one axle jumps or skips outwards, try swapping the tyres front to rear, and see if the opposite axle is affected.  If the same axle is affected after swapping the tyres, then that would indicate that the tyres are fairly even, but the effect is caused by the general suspension set up, rather than tyre differences.

HTH
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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I feel like a homo


Offline RedRobin

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There's a logic in having the strengths of the Assym's construction as the driven tyres, i.e. on front axle.

What specifically is the logic there?  :smiley:

I know of something slightly different from Pirelli, which doesn't support Goodyears view.

....My logic rather than Goodyear's. Therefore somewhat unscientific! My 'logic' was that the stiffer/stronger shoulder and inner construction of the Goodyear Assyms would hold onto traction/grip/sideforces longer than directionals and therefore delay inducing ESP.
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Offline RedRobin

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Had all 4 put on mine and they have been faultless from the first day, more than pleased with mine

....That is much more important info than you probably realise! It's suggesting that Goodyear are right when they tell me that, although they don't know for certain, they think that it's the differential in the tyre's shoulder flexibility plus the strengthened internal shoulder construction of their Assyms which 'conflicts' with directional tyres such as GSD3's, and consequently sets off the ESP's 'snatching'.

If it is the case that the differing sidewalls are causing such noticeable problems, and Goodyear themselves are saying so, then they should issue categoric instructions that this specific combination should NOT be used on any car.  Michelin technical are able to offer similar advice, so why arn't Goodyear able to do so?

....The Goodyear techies in Brum don't seem to know if their testing involved a mix of paired tyres - It probably didn't but then isn't very real-world as a consequence. So I seem to be possibly the first customer to give them this feedback. They think that differing sidewalls is the problem but aren't being categoric.

Goodyear have already stated quite categorically that all four tyres should be Assym's on AWD, quattro cars but that it's okay to mix on FWD (matching tyres per axle).

Hmmm . . . not good, IMHO.  Goodyear obviously are aware of the problem, with specific 4wd issues.  RR, did Goodyear make any differentiation between "permanent" or "full-time" time 4wd systems, such as the Torsen quattro - verses the "automatic/on-demand" or "part-time" 4wd such as Haldex or visco couplings?

....As I don't run any 'AWD' or quattro cars I didn't ask and we didn't discuss such detail. Phone 01902 453097 if it helps - Dave or Peter are very helpful.

I'm going to be putting something in writing to Goodyear on this issue.
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Offline RedRobin

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I'll only swap if the issue reappears - Otherwise no need. I'm at VW Racing soon anyway, and we'll see what they think driving my car.
What's planned for the Red machine there?  :smiley:
....Special version of Quaife diff developed with VW Racing and something I'll report about in due course. I've driven a friend's 290bhp GTI with one fitted - Truly awesome. Ironically, as the diff will reduce instances of ESP kicking in, it will probably help the Goodyear Assym 'snatch' problem. Perhaps Goodyear should pay for my Quaife!

Ohh - try to get some pics of the install.  So what are VWR doing to the Quaiffe - or are they modifying the DSG control electronics?  :drool:

....It's a special version of the Quaife exclusive to VWR but also totally suitable for road use - I've driven an example in a Mk5 GTI and it held better than back-to-back with a Stage3 Mk5 R32 with Haldex in Race mode! But, the R32 had tyre tread issues (from a recent trackday)!! Using road rubber on track isn't necessarily a great idea. From what you're telling me about the R32 driven wheels split, it's perhaps not so surprising that the Quaife diff performs so well - But the GTI was fully sorted on suspension too (wishbone and camber mods on coilovers professionally setup, all by VWR).

Rather than say more in this thread, I'll start a new one in due course when I have more to share.

And before anyone asks - No!! There can't be a Group Buy! It only takes one mean arsehole to screw up good relationships.
« Last Edit: 10 August 2008, 13:53 by RedRobin »
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WhiteGTI

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Having now done around 1K miles on these tyres, I can report the following:

1.) The "snatch" during hard acceleration and cornering seems to have diminished

2.) The chronic understeer seems to have gone

3.) Cornering ability has drastically improved over the previous Pilot Exalto's

4.) Braking performance (on standard brakes) remains the same

5.) Road noise is pretty much the same as the Michelins

Hope this helps anyone looking for new tyres/intrigued by the whole Goodyear F1 Assymentric debate!!

Edit: I can't comment on wet weather performance at this time as I haven't really driven it in the wet yet (with the new tyres), but  I'm sure others on the forum can comment on that aspect.


Offline RedRobin

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....^Very useful info :cool:

I'd have to read back 5 pages and I've forgotten - Are you on Assyms on all 4, WhiteGTI?

Thanks :smiley:
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Offline No Golf Clubs at all

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 :smiley:

I am, all 4 corners asymmetrics on 18".

Totally superb handling now, I just cannot believe the difference from having my Kumhos on the rear (6mm) and my ecstas (1.5mm) on the front.  Acceleration, cornering, braking, handling all night and day.

Best £471 upgrade around imho...at least until I can afford the revo....:)

Let the fun begin........Red Gti, full colour coding, DSG, Xenons, Winter pack, Lux pack, Highline, Sat Nav, Sunroof, Leather, Milltek, ABT rear valance, Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics....pescaras :-)