new boots time - Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric vs Mich Pilot Sport PS2s

[MarkS]

Out of interest, can you digress further about the bias shown against the Michelins in that test?
Not saying I disagree or owt, just interested 

I was wondering when somebody would ask about that! 

Have you read the report recently?  Did you notice anything about the LoadIndex of the tyres they tested? 

I'm getting some gsd3s fitted as we speak, albeit not to a mk5  , but I've only heard good things about them, and they look the business 

Do peeps really go on "looks" over actual performance! 

I was referring to the fact that "they look like they should be good" from the brief moment I saw them propped up in the garage when I went to drop the wheels off this morning. It was very much a throw away comment... not a key reason for purchasing said tyres.
And the fact I've spent several weeks researching tyres those are the ones i plumped for...
 

[RedRobin]

....Whereas a focussed driver will of course primarily consider a tyre's performance, let's not kid ourselves that most of us also like eye-candy. The tread of the GSD3's do look the business - I've even heard a lady who knows feck all about any tyres say "they look the business" (I'm pretty sure it was my new tyres she was referring to at the time!). And Goodyear have confirmed that the "look" of a tyre can effect sales.

In a perfect world, tyres both perform well and look good - A bit like Porsche cars do both (imo) for example.

Would anyone here say these look cool? : -



....I wouldn't!

[MarkS]

Again, I wasn't saying that I bought them cos they looked good!
I bought them cos of the good reviews I've heard 
And its coincidental that they happen to look good too.
In the same way that a mk5 GTi is a great driver's car and coincidentally looks good too!
If the tyres were pink and fluffy, but made the handling 10x better I still would have bought them
...ok perhaps not that extreme, but you see where I'm coming from 

Its just the statement I said when I asked to have a look at them,
"ahh nice one mate, they look good, I'll come back in an hour"

Maybe I didn't make myself clear... 
If I wanted some ones that just looked good, budget Nankang ditch-finders look the same and would have saved me about £100! 

[RedRobin]

Again, I wasn't saying that I bought them cos they looked good!
I bought them cos of the good reviews I've heard 
And its coincidental that they happen to look good too.

....Don't worry - I think we all understood that. Talking at slight cross-purposes perhaps, in that it was mentioned that SOME people (not you) chose tyres primarily on looks.
 

[R32UK]

RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??

....Is that GSD3 F1's or Assym F1's on the front axle?

Goodyear were very clear in their advice to only fit Assym's on AWD/quattro if all 4 tyres. But we know that the R32 is mostly FWD with AWD as and when needed - 80/20? 60/40?

F1 Assym's on the front and the sport max on the rears. The Sport maxx still have a fair bit of tread left... so I just thought it would be waste to change them. Not noticed any problems as yet... what should i be looking out for?? I encounter quite a few RA's on the way home and some good DC's to give it some.

[RedRobin]

....The only thing to be aware of is the possibility of the ESP kicking in when you least expect it. But just drive through it IF it happens - It might not.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Had all 4 put on mine and they have been faultless from the first day, more than pleased with mine

....That is much more important info than you probably realise! It's suggesting that Goodyear are right when they tell me that, although they don't know for certain, they think that it's the differential in the tyre's shoulder flexibility plus the strengthened internal shoulder construction of their Assyms which 'conflicts' with directional tyres such as GSD3's, and consequently sets off the ESP's 'snatching'.

If it is the case that the differing sidewalls are causing such noticeable problems, and Goodyear themselves are saying so, then they should issue categoric instructions that this specific combination should NOT be used on any car.  Michelin technical are able to offer similar advice, so why arn't Goodyear able to do so?

Goodyear have already stated quite categorically that all four tyres should be Assym's on AWD, quattro cars but that it's okay to mix on FWD (matching tyres per axle).

Hmmm . . . not good, IMHO.  Goodyear obviously are aware of the problem, with specific 4wd issues.  RR, did Goodyear make any differentiation between "permanent" or "full-time" time 4wd systems, such as the Torsen quattro - verses the "automatic/on-demand" or "part-time" 4wd such as Haldex or visco couplings?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

OK, thanks for the update.  I would still be tempted to swap the wheels/tyres front and rear though, and see if there is any change.  Maybe there is an inherent mis-match problem with the Goodyears, and Goodyear need to be advised if so.  I know Michelin are absolutely excellent with their advisories regarding mixing tyres.  Who knows . . . maybe Goodyear already know, and are keeping zipped, in a similar fashion to Renault with Clio bonnets, or Vauxhall with Vectra handbrakes.  Afterall, it would seem to be a logical "upgrade" or progression from the discontinued Goodyear directionals to their latest asymmetrics . . .

....They have been advised - I've been talking with them for the last couple of weeks about my 'snatching' issue.

And their response was . . . .

....As I posted earlier (unless it was in the now lost "snatching" thread) - That I should try swapping (as you suggested) if the problem persisted and would I please keep them informed.

OK, sorry, my bad.  You did mention that.  I just wondered if you'd tried any further options, or if they'd got back to you with any updates.

I'll only swap if the issue reappears - Otherwise no need. I'm at VW Racing soon anyway, and we'll see what they think driving my car.

What's planned for the Red machine there? 

....Special version of Quaife diff developed with VW Racing and something I'll report about in due course. I've driven a friend's 290bhp GTI with one fitted - Truly awesome. Ironically, as the diff will reduce instances of ESP kicking in, it will probably help the Goodyear Assym 'snatch' problem. Perhaps Goodyear should pay for my Quaife!

Ohh - try to get some pics of the install.  So what are VWR doing to the Quaiffe - or are they modifying the DSG control electronics? 

I can see Goodyears advertising as I type:

Free Quaiffe ATB diff with every pair of Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics
      

I think I need to spend a spell in Modifiers Anonymous! I'm hoping that the Mk6 GTI isn't too sexy!! Talking of sexy cars for just a moment - I know a RS6 Avant fully Sportec loaded (40G's worth!), 03-plate 75k miles for sale £30k (he's getting latest version) - Automotive p0rn!! You wouldn't like it, T_T!

Nah, not for me thanks.  The tiptronic gearbox on the 1st generation RS6 is shyte, especially when compared to the DSG.  Now the latest gen RS6 really is awsome - but to spec it to my requirements (bucket seats, Ceramic brakes, sunroof and a few other bits and bobs), you are looking at £85 !!!    The tiptronic is much better on the latest one, and not too far off DSG quality.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??

Yebut, the SportMaxx are shyte, and if can not really determine any difference in grip, particularly in hard cornering, between front and rear axles, the F1s arn't really an improvement over the SportMaxx! 

I'm in a similar situation to you, having directional SportMaxx on one axle and the asymmetric Mich PS2s on the other - and I can state there is a considerable difference in cornering grip, traction, braking, and wet weather performance between axles.  Put the PS2s on the front and the ShyteMaxx on the rear, and I lose the back end under cornering (particularly if there is a bump mid corner), and the ABS kicks in on the rears.  Swap em round with the Craplops on the front and the PS2s on the rear, and the rear end sticks to the road like sh!t to a blanket during corners, when the fronts will push wide, and literally jump wide by about ½ a metre if I hit the same bump.  The Craplops don't have particularly good traction in the dry (they may be just about OK, but compared to the supreme traction of the PS2, there is no comparison).  The ABS kicks in on the front end.  And in the wet, the SportMaxx, just like all directional tyres suffer with scary aquaplaining after just 2½mm of wear reduction (that means 5mm remaining).

And just to be clear, when I carried out these comparisons, the PS2s were brand new with 7½mm of tread, and the SportMaxx (being the original rears) still had 7mm tread - so the comparison between them is about as fair as you can get.

I tried similar experiments on a previous front wheel drive car too, using the 1st generation directional Mich Pilot Sport, and (when the orginal directionals became discontinued, before the PS2s became available in 17" sizes), I got an axle pair of the latest asymmetrical Mich Pilot Exalto PE2s.  Again 7mm left on the PS directionals, and 7½mm on the new PE2s, and never experienced any such handling concerns (apart from aquaplaning on the directionals when they had worn down to 2-2½mm, which, as I've said is a common problem with directionals, and is just one reason why manufacturers are scrapping directional tread patterns) - irrespective of weather the directionals were on the front or rear.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Goodyear were very clear in their advice to only fit Assym's on AWD/quattro if all 4 tyres. But we know that the R32 is mostly FWD with AWD as and when needed - 80/20? 60/40?

The default torque distribution on all standard VAG Haldex cars is 97.5% to the front and 2.5% to the rear - so effectively a front wheel drive car.  It is only AFTER slip on the front axle has been detected that more torque is sent to the rear, and then only upto a maximum of 50:50.  (And not like what an utter tw@t at my local stealership tried to tell me, that R32s have a default 40:60 torque split - I told him he'd been reading to may RS4 brochures, or MaxPower comics  ).