Author Topic: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)  (Read 53923 times)

Offline drisser

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #70 on: 15 July 2013, 08:53 »
If VW state 95 as a minimum (which they do) but do not recommend 98 in any of their brochure material, then I think it's safe to assume that output, mpg and CO2 figures are based on RON 95 fuel use. If you could get higher output or mpg with the routine use of RON 98, i'd expect VW to be making that clear in their literature (quite prominently), hence i've assumed no benefits of using RON 98 fuel.

I don't think anyone would mention it in their brochures because it would be hard to clarify any claims, I think they say minimum 95 but I am pretty sure in any high performance turbo engine, 98 Ron would give slightly higher power output because it burns hotter than 95.  I don't know the science but I used to run my fiat coupe turbo on 98 when I could and it ran smoother and faster, it might be that these days it makes little difference.. I think it is also cleaner for the engine than 95 because of the higher temperatures.. I think modern ecu can identify the Ron rating and adapt the engine to optimize output.

That's my understanding but maybe I am deluded  :laugh:

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Offline david25

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #71 on: 15 July 2013, 09:14 »
It remains engine specific;

Old EA113 RON 98

New EA888 RON 95

Search for bpy_10-00.pdf in Google
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Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #72 on: 15 July 2013, 10:24 »
The manual isn't going to be doing anything but stating the minimum because the purpose is simply to tell you how to operate the vehicle.  VW don't have the capability to acquire and test all the different potential fuels their customers might use (which might even change in the future) and discuss the possible pros and cons, its not what they get paid for either so why would they even try?  They're just stating the minimum octane number for the engine's compression ratio.

Offline david25

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #73 on: 15 July 2013, 10:46 »
Thanks Bill, I knew I had seen the "evidence" somewhere!

Look in your manuals everyone, here is the EA113 from the MK5



I suspect the MK6 will state JUST 95.

Can someone with a MK7 look please?
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Offline JoeGTI

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #74 on: 15 July 2013, 11:02 »
I'll take a look in a while...

98-Ron petrol isn't even available here in the ROI as far as I know!
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Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #75 on: 15 July 2013, 11:11 »
Read another article (American Car and Driver I think).  Couple of caveats first.  Its US fuel (if you can call it that), and they seemed interested in power only and don't mention or test mpg.

The key points, firstly regarding engines designed to be able to run on "regular" (which for Americans seems to be 85-87 :shocked:) as opposed to "premium" (which is a measly 91!):

Quote
in some engines designed for regular fuel, you can advance the timing if you burn premium, but whether this will yield additional power varies from engine to engine.

Regarding how the engine sensors detect the octane:

Quote
Relying on these sensors, the engine controller can keep each cylinder's spark timing advanced right to the hairy edge of knock, providing peak efficiency on any fuel
...
only a few vehicles calibrated for regular fuel can advance timing beyond their nominal ideal setting when burning premium.

And their track and road testing results:

Quote
Our tests confirm that for most cars there is no compelling reason to buy more expensive fuel than the factory recommends, as any performance gain realized will surely be far less than the percentage hike in price.

So still inconclusive.  Regarding power (with sh!tty US fuel and presumably engines that expect it) you don't get any gains in non performance or in older tech cars.  No tests were done on something similar to the GTI though.

Regarding the science, it seems to me that technically the GTI engine can make use of the higher octane fuel, but again any power or mpg (or cleaning) improvements are unproven and even if they exist do they cover the higher fuel cost?  We just don't know.

EDIT:
Also does anyone know how the hell they get away with 91 in the US?  Their premium is significantly worse than the worst EU fuel.  Seems mad.  Also makes it hard to get decent info because I'm actually highly sceptical about how much of this will apply to our situation.
« Last Edit: 15 July 2013, 11:15 by Bill_the_Bear »

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #76 on: 15 July 2013, 12:23 »
Read another article (American Car and Driver I think).  Couple of caveats first.  Its US fuel (if you can call it that), and they seemed interested in power only and don't mention or test mpg.

The key points, firstly regarding engines designed to be able to run on "regular" (which for Americans seems to be 85-87 :shocked:) as opposed to "premium" (which is a measly 91!):


I suppose we have to get something for our exra £4 a gallon!  :whistle:
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Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #77 on: 15 July 2013, 12:53 »
I suppose we have to get something for our exra £4 a gallon!  :whistle:

Yeah.  While I was browsing around I came across this US motorist being interviewed:

Quote
So yeah, we’re at $69 for 15 gallons of gas.  It’s getting kind of crazy. I’m still kind of going, oh boy, am I really doing this?

Right, so that is 70p per litre you're paying there.  Half the cost we pay. :huh: Not to mention you can buy your GTI for half what we pay too... (though like with their fuel its an inferior car too).

Fuel should cost 80p per litre, that is what it cost when I started driving.  All this tax they charge is BS.  It never should have gone over £1 and all the howling and screaming back when it did looks almost comical as each week I pay £1.40 now.  We all stand there at the pumps.  In silence.  An impotent rage slowly boiling beneath the surface as we hand our plastic money over and for the thousandth time explain that we do not have a spy loyalty card.

And another thing, why must I pay VAT on fuel duty?

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #78 on: 15 July 2013, 13:11 »
I suppose we have to get something for our exra £4 a gallon!  :whistle:

Yeah.  While I was browsing around I came across this US motorist being interviewed:

Quote
So yeah, we’re at $69 for 15 gallons of gas.  It’s getting kind of crazy. I’m still kind of going, oh boy, am I really doing this?

Right, so that is 70p per litre you're paying there.  Half the cost we pay. :huh: Not to mention you can buy your GTI for half what we pay too... (though like with their fuel its an inferior car too).

Fuel should cost 80p per litre, that is what it cost when I started driving.  All this tax they charge is BS.  It never should have gone over £1 and all the howling and screaming back when it did looks almost comical as each week I pay £1.40 now.  We all stand there at the pumps.  In silence.  An impotent rage slowly boiling beneath the surface as we hand our plastic money over and for the thousandth time explain that we do not have a spy loyalty card.

And another thing, why must I pay VAT on fuel duty?

Now when I have to replace a tyre it doesn't seem so expensive - it's less than 2 tanks of Diesel per tyre.

It's worse when they ask you whether you want a VAT receipt at the filling station. VAT receipt? I F!%@ing wish someone else was paying for it!
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline Hobojim

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #79 on: 15 July 2013, 13:24 »
The way the Americans measure RON and the Europeans is different. Look it up on wikipedia - it has it right for once.