Author Topic: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)  (Read 53932 times)

Offline Rhyso

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #50 on: 14 July 2013, 15:23 »
My mates S3 runs like a bag of sh!t on anything but the good stuff

Offline Hawaii-Five-O

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #51 on: 14 July 2013, 16:30 »
My mates S3 runs like a bag of sh!t on anything but the good stuff

What is your S3's official RON rating Rhyso?
Current: BMW M140i / ZF8 / 5 DR
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Offline JellyB

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #52 on: 14 July 2013, 17:35 »
...My main confusion is what is the mechanism the ECU uses to determine when to advance the timing?  In other words how does it detect/know that the fuel is different?  Presumably if your going to get better mpg then you need less fuel to be injected so how does the engine determine this?

On my G40 which was custom mapped, the main thing to help the ecu back off the timing was the knock sensor.

I know I could push the settings that little bit further when I was running on 98RON, than the usual 95RON. Probably didnt make much difference with performance or economy, just piece of mind that I was well within what the ECU wanted or could do.

Offline Bill_the_Bear

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #53 on: 14 July 2013, 18:00 »
Chaps,

1. As p3asa's excellent video explains its pointless to assume a car will run better on high octane fuel.  Unless the compression ratio is changed it won't matter.

2. There might, however, be other benefits.

3. As John and others have pointed out its often hard to see any difference suggesting if there is one its small.

However,

4. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=302977 demonstrated on some cars with VVT improvements are seen scientifically.  The new mk7 GTI is the first GTI with VVT so comparisons with mk5/6 don't apply, it's a different engine.

5. http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=256725.msg2357665#msg2357665 suggests fuel economy and power should be up with the EA888 using high octane.

6. Remaps may or may not mean the fuel should be changed, depends on the compression ratio post remap.

7. It's gonna be hard to prove as we'd need large sample sizes to overcome variations due to driving style etc... Obviously we'll all have our opinions and will act on them but for proof we need more than 1 data point.

I guess a bunch of us using v-power or something could compare stats to a bunch on regular fuel.  Or we could all just do what we want and forget about it. :whistle:

EDIT: forgot my conclusion...
The mk7 should benefit from high octane fuel in theory.  There is little value using data based on other cars, you've got to look at the mk7 itself as its engine setup and ECU behaviour is specific to it.  We can't prove the theory is correct without lots of data points, but we also can't just assume any benefits exist.
« Last Edit: 14 July 2013, 18:03 by Bill_the_Bear »

Offline Rhyso

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #54 on: 14 July 2013, 19:56 »
My mates S3 runs like a bag of sh!t on anything but the good stuff

What is your S3's official RON rating Rhyso?

Dunno. I dont own an S3  :grin:

Fairly sure its 98 though. Its virtually the same motor as in the E30 which im fairly sure is optimised for 98 ron

Offline JonnyG

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #55 on: 14 July 2013, 20:33 »
Interesting debate ... I guess it all depends on what VW recommend as the optimal fuel for the new GTI.

Sounds like this is 95 RON ?

However VW did recommend 98 RON for both the Mk 5 Edition 30 and Mk 6 Golf R so I think that's where the confusion lies.  95 RON would work OK in these engines, but the ECU retarded the ignition.

5th Gear tested the Mk 6 Gti ED 35 with loads of different petrol last year and Vpower came out on top with the greater bhp on a rolling road, but VBH couldn't sense it while driving  :grin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc

Here's a summary :-

Five fuels tested on a Golf GTi ED 35 and BHP measured on a rolling road

Results :-

1. Shell V-Power  240.9 bhp
2. Esso Supreme  240.5 bhp
3. BP Ultimate      236.7 bhp
4. BP (95 RON)     236.1 bhp
5. Asda (95 RON)  235.8 bhp


My Mk 6 Golf R sticker :-




Thorney Motorsport did a lot of fuel testing a few years ago and VPower and Tesco 99 always gave slightly better bhp on a measured dynanometer :

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/high-octane-equals-better-mpg
« Last Edit: 14 July 2013, 20:48 by JonnyG »
Current : Seat Cupra Lux, DSG, Magnetic Grey, Sept 2019
Gone :    Golf Mk 7 R, 5dr DSG, Pure White, March 2017
Gone :    Golf Mk 7 R, 5dr DSG, Tornado Red, March 2015
Gone :    Audi RS3, Daytona Grey, 7sp S-Tronic, Sept 2012
Gone :    Golf R, Rising Blue, 5dr DSG Mar 2010
Gone :    Golf R32, DBP, 5dr, DSG, Nov 2008
Gone :    Golf GTi ED30, Mar 2007

Offline Johnc41

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #56 on: 14 July 2013, 20:47 »
Interesting debate ... I guess it all depends on what VW recommend as the optimal fuel for the new GTI.

Sounds like this is 95 RON ?

However VW did recommend 98 RON for both the Mk 5 Edition 30 and Mk 6 Golf R so I think that's where the confusion lies.  95 RON would work OK in these engines, but the ECU retarded the ignition.

5th Gear tested the Mk 6 Gti with loads of different petrol last year and Vpower came out on top with the greater bhp on a rolling road, but VBH couldn't sense it while driving  :grin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc

My Mk 6 Golf R sticker :-




Thorney Motorsport did a lot of fuel testing a few years ago and VPower and Tesco 99 always gave slightly better bhp on a measured dynanometer :

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/high-octane-equals-better-mpg

Yes they did but did you read all the forum, they fell out with tesco and are now telling people not to use tesco 99. And you are right about the mk6 r with 98.  The mark 6 gti engine E888 engine was different to the r and recommended 95 Ron

Offline CraigW

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #57 on: 14 July 2013, 20:53 »
Just shows you the difference the fuels make in terms of bhp. Ill be using v power and nothing else.

Offline JonnyG

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #58 on: 14 July 2013, 20:55 »
Yes they did but did you read all the forum, they fell out with tesco and are now telling people not to use tesco 99. And you are right about the mk6 r with 98.  The mark 6 gti engine E888 engine was different to the r and recommended 95 Ron

Yes, I know.  Tesco dropped them as a sponsor and they fell out.  it could have been sour grapes some say  :grin: :wink:   
Current : Seat Cupra Lux, DSG, Magnetic Grey, Sept 2019
Gone :    Golf Mk 7 R, 5dr DSG, Pure White, March 2017
Gone :    Golf Mk 7 R, 5dr DSG, Tornado Red, March 2015
Gone :    Audi RS3, Daytona Grey, 7sp S-Tronic, Sept 2012
Gone :    Golf R, Rising Blue, 5dr DSG Mar 2010
Gone :    Golf R32, DBP, 5dr, DSG, Nov 2008
Gone :    Golf GTi ED30, Mar 2007

Offline Gordor

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Re: GTI fuel rating (95 RON)
« Reply #59 on: 14 July 2013, 21:24 »
Interesting debate ... I guess it all depends on what VW recommend as the optimal fuel for the new GTI.

Sounds like this is 95 RON ?

However VW did recommend 98 RON for both the Mk 5 Edition 30 and Mk 6 Golf R so I think that's where the confusion lies.  95 RON would work OK in these engines, but the ECU retarded the ignition.

5th Gear tested the Mk 6 Gti ED 35 with loads of different petrol last year and Vpower came out on top with the greater bhp on a rolling road, but VBH couldn't sense it while driving  :grin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc

Here's a summary :-

Five fuels tested on a Golf GTi ED 35 and BHP measured on a rolling road

Results :-

1. Shell V-Power  240.9 bhp
2. Esso Supreme  240.5 bhp
3. BP Ultimate      236.7 bhp
4. BP (95 RON)     236.1 bhp
5. Asda (95 RON)  235.8 bhp


My Mk 6 Golf R sticker :-




Thorney Motorsport did a lot of fuel testing a few years ago and VPower and Tesco 99 always gave slightly better bhp on a measured dynanometer :

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/high-octane-equals-better-mpg





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