Author Topic: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension  (Read 5608 times)

Offline Koose

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Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« on: 29 August 2012, 22:06 »
Hi all,

Many thanks for having me. Im banned from fettling with mine and the missus posh car (a nissan of sorts).

So i want to get stuck in to my 1996 Mk3 16v.

Now my very first port of call is chassis mods.

Now as a rule of thumb, i usually find out whats considered the best value for money brake upgrade, and suspension upgrade.

I was thinking of some GAZ coilovers (never ever let me down in the past). Some thicker ARBS, full poly bushes all round, lightweight 16" wheels and some really sticky tyres.

However, what i need (what i beg) from you guys, is what tricks are there? What cheap brake upgrades are there, like do bigger brakes off another dub fit straight on etc? Whats the consensus to strut braces and thicker arb?

What rate for springs would you run if youre sole ambition was to make the car handle as best as possible.

I have tried searching but i just cant get anywhere.

Truly grateful from a noob whos wanted a golf for years. (dont tell the missus but i actually am more excited about it than my Nismo Z.

Mark

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #1 on: 29 August 2012, 22:27 »
Hi all,

Many thanks for having me. Im banned from fettling with mine and the missus posh car (a nissan of sorts).

So i want to get stuck in to my 1996 Mk3 16v.

Now my very first port of call is chassis mods.

Now as a rule of thumb, i usually find out whats considered the best value for money brake upgrade, and suspension upgrade.

I was thinking of some GAZ coilovers (never ever let me down in the past). Some thicker ARBS, full poly bushes all round, lightweight 16" wheels and some really sticky tyres.

However, what i need (what i beg) from you guys, is what tricks are there? What cheap brake upgrades are there, like do bigger brakes off another dub fit straight on etc? Whats the consensus to strut braces and thicker arb?

What rate for springs would you run if youre sole ambition was to make the car handle as best as possible.

I have tried searching but i just cant get anywhere.

Truly grateful from a noob whos wanted a golf for years. (dont tell the missus but i actually am more excited about it than my Nismo Z.

Mark

A few ideas:

Brakes: early TT/S3 312mm discs fit the hubs with standard calipers as long as you fit a 6mm spacer behind the caliper carrier.
Grooved discs if you want the extra bite - Brembo/Black Diamond etc
Ferodo DS2500 / Mintex M1155 front pads, stainless hoses...standard sized rear discs, standard/Mintex M1144 rear pads.
Brakes sorted.

GAZ coilovers = superb.
Go with GAZs spring rates - they will suit the valving on the dampers.

The Koni coilover kit works well too...but is a tad firm for a 16v on the road.

Eibach ARBs work a treat....or Neuspeed if you want an adjustable rear ARB to tweak the handling.

Powerflex bushes work well - bottom arm F & R...I wouldn't bother with the front crossmember.
Powerflex rear beam bushes work well.

Vibratechnics engine and gearbox mounts.

16" wheels = good...but trackday rubber in a decent size is hard to find.
195/50/16 R888s/A048s available (I have both) but it screws the gearing up, so ideally you need to change the Final Drive to a 3.94 to bring the gearing back to stock...even better, go to a 4.2 to lower the gearing in the trackday tyres.

You'll want the rear pretty hard, the front less so.
Try around -1.5 to -1.75 degrees negative camber per side...and I find 5 mins toe out per side works well.

That's a starter for ten  :grin:

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline Koose

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #2 on: 29 August 2012, 23:11 »
Wow, so friendly and such great info thanks man!!

Is there anywhere that sells the spacer? Does it just move the caliper away from the disc outwards..if you get my meaning?

How bad would stock calipers be for now as the car is a budget carfor now, assuming i did everythhing else the same, DS25s, gooved ultimax or tarx discs, good fluid?the missus has allowed m to go for Gas GHAs as sheloves the difference they make.

How much is the TT set up.Now the only oteher FWD cars ive had have been several Rover coupe turbos and a maestro turbo (thought i recognised the suspension on my Mk3.

As you seem kind enough to offer help. 2 questions, how much of  a pipe dream would it be to fit an eaton SC to my 16V? and What sort of engine mods would you do, in order of ...err worthwhileness i guess? Is the stock diff an open one or a quaiffe/ torsen like the Rovers have?

Is it worthwhile fitting strutbraces then?

And do they make a shortshifter for our cars?

Also old fashioned i know but, is the ecu self learning or can i fit an engine back exhaust, Gruppe M or Viper induction without too many ussues?

Huge thanks again, i really hope to show you the results early next year :-D Car is a P reg GTi16v?

Thanksagain,

Mark W
« Last Edit: 29 August 2012, 23:16 by Koose »

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #3 on: 29 August 2012, 23:38 »
Wow, so friendly and such great info thanks man!!

Is there anywhere that sells the spacer? Does it just move the caliper away from the disc outwards..if you get my meaning?

The spacer puts the caliper carrier 6mm further in than the Mk3 caliper/disc as the Mk4/TT/S3 stuff site further in.
You can keep your existing callipers, but the need the 312mm discs and caliper carriers.

Not sure where you can buy them. I turned my own. You will need 6mm longer bolts too - in 12.8 strength.


Quote
How bad would stock calipers be for now as the car is a budget carfor now,

OK...still pretty good...but fadable, even on the road if you really lean on them hard.
312s just give a little more fade resistance...


Quote
assuming i did everythhing else the same, DS25s, gooved ultimax or tarx discs, good fluid?the missus has allowed m to go for Gas GHAs as sheloves the difference they make.

Sounds good.


Quote
How much is the TT set up.Now the only oteher FWD cars ive had have been several Rover coupe turbos and a maestro turbo (thought i recognised the suspension on my Mk3.

Not sure...it was probably 10 years ago I bought my last set. You should be able to get the caliper carriers for £100ish...and buy new discs.


Quote
As you seem kind enough to offer help. 2 questions, how much of  a pipe dream would it be to fit an eaton SC to my 16V?

No idea.
Possible...but hard and expensive...and you'd need the SLK version...the MINI one will be too small.


Quote
and What sort of engine mods would you do, in order of ...err worthwhileness i guess? Is the stock diff an open one or a quaiffe/ torsen like the Rovers have?

Stock diff is open.
Gearing is close enough, but saddled with a long FD.

If you want my honest view...K&N fileter, de-restrict the airbox, port the throttle body, eBay chip and leave the rest alone...you will spend £1000s chasing little gains...
Exhaust gice nothing but noise.
No need to de-cat...it adds nothing.
Standard downpipes are good for 200 BHP...so don't waste your money on a bling 4 branch.

Fit a 3.94 or 4.2 FD to the standard gearbox (depending on tyre size), lighten the flywheel, and spend the money you would normally have spent on go-faster sh!t, on a Peloquin/Quaife diff.
That will give you a 160+ BHP car with low gearing, plenty of traction...and make it far quicker on the road than a 190 BHP car with a standard gearbox (from experience).


Quote
Is it worthwhile fitting strutbraces then?

Won't do any harm...
Won't do an awful lot of good either.


Quote
And do they make a shortshifter for our cars?

Not sure if they do anymore.

You can fit a Mk4 complete shift set up - lever, cables and shift tower.
Takes a bit of fitting and fiddling...but far better than the Mk3 stuff.
Plenty info on the 'net.


Quote
Also old fashioned i know but, is the ecu self learning or can i fit an engine back exhaust, Gruppe M or Viper induction without too many ussues?

Nope...ECU isn't self learning.

You'll not get much of a gain - if any - from an exhaust...or bling inlet kit.
De-restricting the standard airbox will give 2-3 BHP...as much as some £400 piece of finely buffed carbon bling...and costs a fraction.
Don't fit an open cone filter - hot air = de-tuning.

You can get small gains from the airbox, the filter, porting the TB and a chip of some sort...on a healthy engine that should net you 160 ish BHP.
The light flywheel will feel like you've added 20 BHP...and sorting the gearing will really make it come together.

That's my view...plenty others will argue.  :lipsrsealed:

Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline Dan_GTi8v

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #4 on: 30 August 2012, 13:20 »

Powerflex rear beam bushes work well.


Why (Rear) Poly Bushings Are Bad

I wouldn't ever polybush the rear beam
20vt conversion, sig pic coming soon!

Build thread http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=167291.0

Offline thai-wronghorse

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #5 on: 30 August 2012, 13:25 »
I've never been a fan of them on road cars really.

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #6 on: 30 August 2012, 14:48 »

I wouldn't ever polybush the rear beam

If you want to tighten up the chassis, it works a treat.
There are no opposing forces in the rear beam pivot...it's just a hinge.
You can fit solid nylon or even metal bearings if you want, and suffer no ill effects.

You don't want the rear beam deflecting in the bushes if you are going to the trouble of shimming the rear for camber/toe...or you are wasting time.

That's the one set of bushes you WILL notice a big difference by changing.
But...nobody's making you do it.


Reducing my Golf count by the week....
..but gaining motorcycles.

Offline spikenipple

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #7 on: 30 August 2012, 19:54 »
Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Regarding the brakes, from what's posted above am I right in thinking you need early TT/S3 312mm discs, the carriers from said vehicle and 6mm spacers, with the existing callipers and appropriate pads?

Offline twotwofour

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #8 on: 30 August 2012, 20:31 »
My whole chassis is poly bushed and feels great, it has recent Sachs shocks and I think they are -25/40mm springs (not sure of brand). Bit too firm at times but is a fun through corners like a gti should be.
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Offline thai-wronghorse

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Re: Humbly asking for advice on brakes and suspension
« Reply #9 on: 30 August 2012, 20:50 »
Do you have any dimensions/drawings for the throttle body modification?
Regarding the brakes, from what's posted above am I right in thinking you need early TT/S3 312mm discs, the carriers from said vehicle and 6mm spacers, with the existing callipers and appropriate pads?

Yup, as long as you have 288mm front brakes to start with.