GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: ED30_MLT on 02 October 2008, 21:30
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Hi
I have an ED30 and still confused, is the stock 1 in conjuction with Forge better than the S3 ??
I am not very happy that to put in the S3 one have to remove the front panel
Anyone please
Thanks
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I run the S3 one and love it, I've fitted and removed a forge one for someone and I wouldn't buy one I'm afraid.
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Sean has both maybe he can tell us the pros and cons ! :smiley:
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who is sean ??
maybe I can have his opinion :)
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Unless someone has actually had each IC installed seperately in the same car and did data logging and dyno runs, I think you would be hard pressed to get a definite answer to which one you should choose.
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There is about 10 Shaun's on here i think he means Teutonic taimer.
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if you compare prices the S3 wins, thats what i have fitted, I think both do slightly dif jobs but to the same ends.
but then again you could fit both.
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my choice would be the S3 option, I looked into the forge option for the ED30, and IMO it does look a bit of a botch job. The S3 intercooler is apparantly very efficient and doesn't it work out cheaper than the forge 1, which is always nice :smiley:
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Sean has both maybe he can tell us the pros and cons ! :smiley:
....Sean aka Teutonic_Tamer aka T_T has both but fitted them both at the same time so I don't think he can evaluate them separately from a performance point of view.
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Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
You need the bumper off to do both, and the only other thing you need to take off for the S3 core is the slam panel and dis-assemble the A/C from the cooler itself.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
I have an S3 core, and it upped boost upon spool and saw 20% drop in inlet temps overall.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
think that answers your question
ED30 MLT :smiley:
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....
Just looking at the purchase price of the S3 i/c and Forge i/c doesn't give you the true cost. So far I've had a quote of about £630 including vat for the S3 i/c.
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hi
I think the good choice will be the S3, I have seen APR insturction, they remove the complete front panel and headlamps to do it, I dont wish to mess with it.
Removing the bumper is no problem, Can you remove the intercooler without removing the front panel ???
Thanks
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Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
You need the bumper off to do both, and the only other thing you need to take off for the S3 core is the slam panel and dis-assemble the A/C from the cooler itself.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
I have an S3 core, and it upped boost upon spool and saw 20% drop in inlet temps overall.
....^That's the kind of info we need! :afro:
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hi
I think the good choice will be the S3, I have seen APR insturction, they remove the complete front panel and headlamps to do it, I dont wish to mess with it.
Removing the bumper is no problem, Can you remove the intercooler without removing the front panel ???
Thanks
Nope. You do need to remove the headlights to take the slam panel off though, and there is a crash beam behind it too actually, but it is all just nuts and bolts.
As memory serves from the 2 I have done
Remove bumper - disconnect fog light wiring and piping to headlight washers.
Remove Slam Panel and headlights
Remove crash beam
Remove screws from core assemblies and support A/C core
Disconnect core piping
Remove OEM core
And put it all back with S3 core.
Once you have done one, they are easy.
Be sure to order screws to fit the S3 core as the plastic screws used on the GTi core are plastic as the core ends on the GTi core is plastic, and the thread is different. Also be sure to order S3 pipes as the connections to the cores are different.
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but the panel has to be removed right ??
I have seen APR instructions, they completly remove it, I am afriad of alignment issues when installing back
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I have the Forge Twintercooler and am very happy with the way it is working.
Yes the S3 unit looks OEM, but Forge back their product with gain figures over the stock system. See below.
http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0013&product=FMINTMK5
I have no doubt that the S3 gives gains too, so maybe do both :wink:
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but the panel has to be removed right ??
I have seen APR instructions, they completly remove it, I am afriad of alignment issues when installing back
Being honest the lights were fiddly, but they can be adjusted fairly easily. Takes patience and a second pair of hands though.
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....
Just looking at the purchase price of the S3 i/c and Forge i/c doesn't give you the true cost. So far I've had a quote of about £630 including vat for the S3 i/c.
You need to show about a bit more Robin.
S3 intercooler - £280 ish incl vat, fitted at same times as Dbilas £132. nice
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data logged a S3 today with TBE, intake & DV settings boost 9 timing 6 afr 9
car had just driven 100miles hard and should have been heat soaked......intake temps maxxed at 30.....says it all for a £300 intercooler!!!!
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And what is the max intake temp then from the Forge/Stock VS S3 intercooler ???
Thanks
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data logged a S3 today with TBE, intake & DV settings boost 9 timing 6 afr 9
Did that car have any other mods like a HPFP as that boost is quite high?
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nope :)
but a 30degree intake temps is what i'd hope for from a good FMIC the forge probably will be similar but i haven't logged the any on a new s3 or a golf so i couldn't tell you
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....
Just looking at the purchase price of the S3 i/c and Forge i/c doesn't give you the true cost. So far I've had a quote of about £630 including vat for the S3 i/c.
You need to show about a bit more Robin.
S3 intercooler - £280 ish incl vat, fitted at same times as Dbilas £132. nice
....As I posted before :rolleyes:, just looking at the purchase price doesn't give you the true price:
The cost for an Audi S3 core alone (without the OEM hoses) is £214.21+ Vat (£251.70 Inc Vat)
The cost for Forge Silicone S3 hoses in red is £107.10 + Vat – (£125.84 Inc Vat) - Needed to fit my Turbo Charge & Discharge line.
The Labour time to fit the S3 core and the above hoses is 4 hours, therefore £200+ Vat (£235 Inc Vat)
The Radiator needs to be drained down in order to fit the S3 core; therefore 2.5 litres of antifreeze will be required at £8.75+ vat (£10.28 inc Vat)
Grand Total therefore is £622.82 including vat and fitting.
Or are you really trying to tell me that your S3 i/c only cost you "£280 ish" including labour - Perhaps you fitted it yourself. :smiley:
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This guy 07Noside on vwvortex has a GTi with the oem and forge twintercooler and his IAT was +5F above ambient at 6500rpm.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/unleashthefury18/IATgraph.jpg)
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I will go s3 intercooler before i go stage 2 to be on the safe side.
Carl is stage 2 set at boost 9?
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I will go s3 intercooler before i go stage 2 to be on the safe side.
Carl is stage 2 set at boost 9?
....As Carl will no doubt answer - Stage2 Revo isn't so aggressive that it means you should have a S3 intercooler.
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I will go s3 intercooler before i go stage 2 to be on the safe side.
Carl is stage 2 set at boost 9?
i think revo tweek the map for stage 2
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someone who knows what they are doing should not take 4hours to fit it.
I would have liked to add the forge ducting but on inspection the s3 pipes seem to be of a better/stronger build than the ones taken of the ed30.
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This guy 07Noside on vwvortex has a GTi with the oem and forge twintercooler and his IAT was +5F above ambient at 6500rpm.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/unleashthefury18/IATgraph.jpg)
So this means it performs like an S3 or not ??
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I would have thought it would be better than a s3 IC (remember the twintercooler utilises the oem IC as well) but as I have never seen anyone post logs of the s3 IC I don't know for sure.
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but doesn't it also cover some of the oe intercooler
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but doesn't it also cover some of the oe intercooler
It does but air does flow through its fins. Just think of it as being the same as the air conditioning conderser that sits in front of the oem IC.
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but its an extra restriction in front of the intercooler, and the flow will be warmer if the forge item has done its job
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but how can it be warmer if the tests done by forge show lower tempretures ???
I am mixed up now :undecided:
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I only mean the flow coming throught the forge item, which then passes on to the oe intercooler, must be warmer because thats how intercoolers work. I'm not knocking the forge item, it must work the figures prove it. But if you can have a more efficient stock intercooler as in replace it with the S3 one, there's no need for it.
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Im going for the s3 intercooler, its alot cheaper and will have been tested waaaaaay more than the forge one. I really dont like the idea of the twintercooler as ive never seen it on any other car. I also agree with gaz about the warm air too.
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but its an extra restriction in front of the intercooler, and the flow will be warmer if the forge item has done its job
I can see your reasoning but the if that was all to it then the setup would not work better than stock, which it does. http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/Forge_GolfV_twinic_v_stock.pdf
Also ask yourself why VF have also come out with essentially the same design after long hours of R&D for their stage 2 IC setup.
(http://www.vf-engineering.com/unsecured/2.0T%20intercooler/stg2/hotside-fmic-stg2.jpg)
(http://www.vf-engineering.com/unsecured/2.0T%20intercooler/stg2/topview-fmic-stg2.jpg)
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i'm not saying it doesn't work, but why not have a more efficient intercooler to start with,then you don't need this twintercooler set-up.
I'm not sideing with any product but its all about airflow :smiley:
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The main thing that put me off is the 2 pipes on the left hand side reducing into one, surely that cant flow smoothly through :huh:
Dont have any experience in that so i may be completely wrong.
If i had the money i would get my mate graham who owns grs mototrsport, to knock me up a custom intercooler. He is the master of intercoolers lol, he is very big on the ford rs scene ie cosworth and the new mini cooper s, the one for the mini performed much better than the forge one in back to back tests. It is also ranked as the best top mount available for the cooper s.
He can do custom ones and has recently done a custom intercooler for a porsche turbo which is a very nice bit of kit.
If there were loads of us wanting one, i would use mine as the test car and he would get us a few made.
Hes also good friends with ray west (west tuning) very experienced tuner. Ray rates grahams intercoolers very highly :wink:
Heres a few of his intercoolers on different cars
Golf gti mk1 with a turbo conversion
http://www.grsmotorsport.co.uk/golfgti.html
Mini cooper s, stock next to grs
http://www.grsmotorsport.co.uk/miniintercooler3.jpg
I personally think the quality is excellent especially the welding :cool:. I can ask him if he would do it but would need a few to be interested.
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someone who knows what they are doing should not take 4hours to fit it.
....Really? How long do you think it should take?
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RR i think a few people have done it themselves in 2 hours, cant remember who. I want mine fitted at awesome as its very near and the work they have done so far on the car has been very professional. They quoted me 4 hours but maybe thats a maximum as they may not have done an s3 one before. If it only takes them 2-3 then thats the labour you pay for.
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Those sweet pipes on the VF unit overcome my major concern with the Forge setup, the pipes seem to be quite restrictive at the point where they spilt.
That aside I still prefer to maintain the OEM look so the S3 was the obvious choice for me. I also used the S3 pipework which is very good quality and not at all expensive.
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The Labour time to fit the S3 core and the above hoses is 4 hours, therefore £200+ Vat (£235 Inc Vat)
The Radiator needs to be drained down in order to fit the S3 core; therefore 2.5 litres of antifreeze will be required at £8.75+ vat (£10.28 inc Vat)
I have fitted 2 and I know it is not necessary for the radiator to be drained.
First one took 5 hours including finding bolts in the local stealer for the end of the side of the core. Second one took 2 hours.
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data logged a S3 today with TBE, intake & DV settings boost 9 timing 6 afr 9
car had just driven 100miles hard and should have been heat soaked......intake temps maxxed at 30.....says it all for a £300 intercooler!!!!
I know of 2 tuned Cupras with the same cooler and had exact same figures Carl :)
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I agree, if you are working inwards from the front then there shouldn't be a need to drain the coolant. I changed mine from the engine side working forwards so the radiator did come out but the front slam panel didn't.
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I will go s3 intercooler before i go stage 2 to be on the safe side.
Carl is stage 2 set at boost 9?
each and every car is different but that was running well within safe limits on boost 9 and was awsome! :)
stage2 still retains full variable switching so don't worry the car can still be setup to your liking :)
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I will go s3 intercooler before i go stage 2 to be on the safe side.
Carl is stage 2 set at boost 9?
each and every car is different but that was running well within safe limits on boost 9 and was awsome! :)
stage2 still retains full variable switching so don't worry the car can still be setup to your liking :)
Things tail off quicker with high boost though Carl, even with the fuel pump. Boost 7 seems to be the best compronise between performance and sustainability of power/torque. B8 T6 and F8 for fun :)
When will stage 2+ be available for those with the pump, intercooler, exhaust and proper intake?
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who is sean ??
I think they were referring to moi! :wink: :smiley:
maybe I can have his opinion :)
I'll read the rest of the thread before I jump in with my reply.
BTW, have you tried the serch funtion on the forum? If you select "advanced search, then you can restrict answers to just the Mk5 section of the forum. :wink:
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I run the S3 one and love it, I've fitted and removed a forge one for someone and I wouldn't buy one I'm afraid.
Why not? :huh:
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if you compare prices the S3 wins
But those prices refer just to the parts. When you take the labour charges into account (if you can't/won't/don't want to fit them yourself), then it is quite a bit more difficult and time consuming to fit the S3 cooler - so taking the cost of both parts and labour together, then the prices will even up quite a bit. :nerd:
I think both do slightly dif jobs but to the same ends.
Yes, agreed. Each one has distinct advantages over the other.
but then again you could fit both.
Yes, if you are after the ultimate in both cooling, and stability of cooling, then both should be considered. :nerd:
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Things tail off quicker with high boost though Carl, even with the fuel pump. Boost 7 seems to be the best compronise between performance and sustainability of power/torque. B8 T6 and F8 for fun :)
....I'm on Boost 7 / Timing 5 / Fuel 9 (if anyone is interested!)
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my choice would be the S3 option, I looked into the forge option for the ED30, and IMO it does look a bit of a botch job. The S3 intercooler is apparantly very efficient and doesn't it work out cheaper than the forge 1, which is always nice :smiley:
Hmmm - I don't think the Forge Twintercooler could ever be considered a "botch job"! :rolleyes: IMVHO, I reckon it is a very well engineered product, and because it is so easy to fit, can be easily removed and reverted back to OEM for whatever need. Furthermore, you could also resell the Forge, whereas the S3 cooler would be a "fit and forget" item (in terms of removing it and selling it separately when you come to sell your car). :smiley:
And refer to one of my previous posts for comments on the costings. :wink:
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Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
It is quite a bit more difficult compared to just removing the bumper, and requires two pairs of axle stands, when most "home mechanics" will probably have just one pair.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Agreed to a point. Yes, the S3 is very "OEM", however, what you forget is the fact that both the standard GTI cooler and the S3 cooler will both be subjected to heat from the air-con condensor - not a huge issue for most of time here in Blighty, but for the OP in Malta, then the a/c condensor will be chucking out a fair bit of heat straight into the S3 cooler. The is a huge advantage for the Forge.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
But you have not taken labour charges into account!
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Just looking at the purchase price of the S3 i/c and Forge i/c doesn't give you the true cost. So far I've had a quote of about £630 including vat for the S3 i/c.
Exactly. :smiley: If you have to pay for labour charges, then this massively ramps up the price of the S3 cooler, whereas the labour charges for the Forge will be considerably cheaper. :wink: :nerd:
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I think the good choice will be the S3,
Either the S3 cooler or the Forge cooler are both very good, and both have different advantages and disadvantages. However, if you live in a hot country, and use the air con a lot - then the Forge has very clear advantages over the "OEM placement" of the S3 cooler.
I have seen APR insturction, they remove the complete front panel and headlamps to do it, I dont wish to mess with it.
Removing the bumper is no problem,
If you have a look at the Forge UK website, they have a colour downloadable PDF comprehensive fitting instructions for the Forge unit.
Furthermore, if you look in the "maintenance and info" subsection of this Mk5 forum, you should find my sticky thread for "free workshop manuals": http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=54324.0, which has PDFs of factory manuals for removing the "lock carrier" - also known as the bonnet slam panel - which holds the standard air con condensor, intercooler and radiator. It isn't difficult, but it is quite time consuming, and requires some "out of the box" thinking, along with ideally a 2nd pair of hands.
Can you remove the intercooler without removing the front panel ???
If you mean the standard OEM cooler, then no.
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hi
I think the good choice will be the S3, I have seen APR insturction, they remove the complete front panel and headlamps to do it, I dont wish to mess with it.
Removing the bumper is no problem, Can you remove the intercooler without removing the front panel ???
Thanks
Nope. You do need to remove the headlights to take the slam panel off though, and there is a crash beam behind it too actually, but it is all just nuts and bolts.
As memory serves from the 2 I have done
Remove bumper - disconnect fog light wiring and piping to headlight washers.
Remove Slam Panel and headlights
Remove crash beam
Remove screws from core assemblies and support A/C core
Disconnect core piping
Remove OEM core
And put it all back with S3 core.
Once you have done one, they are easy.
Be sure to order screws to fit the S3 core as the plastic screws used on the GTi core are plastic as the core ends on the GTi core is plastic, and the thread is different. Also be sure to order S3 pipes as the connections to the cores are different.
You need to remove the crash bar before the slam panel. :tongue: :wink:
And any conventional M6 screw, appropriately cut to length will do. There is no need for stainless steel screws, as mentioned in another thread - but it will be strongly advisable to use some anti-sieze paste, to prevent galvanic corrosion. Nine bolts in total, M6 four about 19mm long, and the other five 22mm long (or it may be the other way round). And don't be alarmed by the 8 bolts left over when the job is finished! :tongue: :evil:
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but the panel has to be removed right ??
I have seen APR instructions, they completly remove it, I am afriad of alignment issues when installing back
There is no real issues with alignment - of the slam panel or the headlamps. Just make sure you "centre" the slam panel loosely on the mounting bolts, and do the same with the crashbar, before tightening everything.
With the headlamps, make sure you remove them only by undoing the torx screws. Don't touch the larger "hex" plastic adjusters.
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data logged a S3 today with TBE, intake & DV settings boost 9 timing 6 afr 9
car had just driven 100miles hard and should have been heat soaked......intake temps maxxed at 30.....says it all for a £300 intercooler!!!!
But try that on a hot summers day, and compare runs with the air con off, then the same again with the air con on. You will see a noticeable increase even with the S3 cooler. :wink:
And don't forget, heat soak is at its most noticeable with high engine revs and low road speeds, such as blasting hard between hairpins in mountain passes. If you are just giving it some on modestly high speeds on say m.ways, dual carriageways or normal A roads - then the speed of the forward motion of the car will be enough to quicky remove "heat soak".
Finally, don't forget that "heat soak" is a different scenario to general overall charge air cooling. :smug: :nerd: :wink: :smiley:
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Just looking at the purchase price of the S3 i/c and Forge i/c doesn't give you the true cost. So far I've had a quote of about £630 including vat for the S3 i/c.
You need to show about a bit more Robin.
S3 intercooler - £280 ish incl vat, fitted at same times as Dbilas £132. nice
....As I posted before :rolleyes:, just looking at the purchase price doesn't give you the true price:
Yup, agreed. But if anyone is able to fit it for themselves, then the S3 is a cheaper option.
The cost for an Audi S3 core alone (without the OEM hoses) is £214.21+ Vat (£251.70 Inc Vat)
But that is a full retail price. Ask nicely, or even set up a trade account, and you can get it for around £185 +vat.
The cost for Forge Silicone S3 hoses in red is £107.10 + Vat – (£125.84 Inc Vat) - Needed to fit my Turbo Charge & Discharge line.
But that is for your own specific example. :wink: :smiley: For the standard OEM hoses, around £63+vat for both.
The Labour time to fit the S3 core and the above hoses is 4 hours, therefore £200+ Vat (£235 Inc Vat)
4 hours labour would seem to be quite conservative, though not unreasonable if you have done the job before. And hourly rates vary enormously too.
The Radiator needs to be drained down in order to fit the S3 core; therefore 2.5 litres of antifreeze will be required at £8.75+ vat (£10.28 inc Vat)
The rad certainly does not need draining. None of the coolant or air con lines need to be touched at all! :rolleyes:
Or are you really trying to tell me that your S3 i/c only cost you "£280 ish" including labour - Perhaps you fitted it yourself. :smiley:
That price would be without any labour costs.
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This guy 07Noside on vwvortex has a GTi with the oem and forge twintercooler and his IAT was +5F above ambient at 6500rpm.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/unleashthefury18/IATgraph.jpg)
And in isolation, that graph proves what? Without road speeds, that graph is completely meaningless. Typical yanks! :rolleyes:
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I will go s3 intercooler before i go stage 2 to be on the safe side.
There are no "safety" issues with using the standard GTI cooler with any other tuning mods. Upgraded intercoolers merely enhance the cooling of the inlet air temps, and any excess IAT heat will simply lower the performance. No damage will be caused by having too "hot" an IAT. :nerd:
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This guy 07Noside on vwvortex has a GTi with the oem and forge twintercooler and his IAT was +5F above ambient at 6500rpm.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg271/unleashthefury18/IATgraph.jpg)
So this means it performs like an S3 or not ??
No, that graph is simply showing the inlet air temperatures. It can no way be construed that the graph will show any "performance" similarities of an S3 - unless, of course, you were specifically referring to the "performance" of only the IAT. :huh:
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but doesn't it also cover some of the oe intercooler
It does but air does flow through its fins. Just think of it as being the same as the air conditioning conderser that sits in front of the oem IC.
Exactly. And when the air con is being used, it is spewing hot air directly into the path of the "OEM" i/c cooling fins - standard GTI cooler or S3 cooler.
The Forge cooler is unaffected by any air-con useage, but it also has the advantage of also maintaining maximum air con efficiency, for two reasons - it is not closely "sandwiched" together with the air-con and coolant rad like the OEM mounted cooler, and secondly, the Forge is only "covering" roughly the bottom third of the air con condensor.
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I only mean the flow coming throught the forge item, which then passes on to the oe intercooler, must be warmer because thats how intercoolers work.
But you have forgotten two three crucial issues. The Forge is only covering the bottom third, in height of the OEM cooler. Secondly, the air-con will also be sending hot air through the OEM cooler. And finally, because the OEM cooler is bolted directly onto the v.hot engine coolant radiator, it will also be affected by heat conduction from the engine coolant. The Forge suffers from none of these. :wink:
I'm not knocking the forge item, it must work the figures prove it. But if you can have a more efficient stock intercooler as in replace it with the S3 one, there's no need for it.
But the Forge does have its own very specific advantages over the mounting position of the OEM cooler, be that the standard GTI cooler or the S3 cooler. :nerd:
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i'm not saying it doesn't work, but why not have a more efficient intercooler to start with,then you don't need this twintercooler set-up.
I'm not sideing with any product but its all about airflow :smiley:
The S3 cooler is extremely efficient. But that isn't the issue when comparing it with the additional mounted ones like the Forge. The OEM has an inherent problem with where it is sited, and whilst the actuall S3 core does a very good job, it suffers from its' two extremely close "neighbours" - whereas the Forge side-step and addresses these very concerns - which is why the Forge (and similar mounted coolers) are seen to be very proficient too. The Forge uses different "areas" of engineering and physics compared to the stock coolers to achieve better reductions in IAT.
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The main thing that put me off is the 2 pipes on the left hand side reducing into one, surely that cant flow smoothly through :huh:
Dont have any experience in that so i may be completely wrong.
Erm, that is what the turbo is for! :rolleyes: Providing the turbo has the capacity to provide the maximum flow rate at max rpms, then that won't be an issue. Only on naturally aspirated cars would you need to be worried about such airflows.
If i had the money i would get my mate graham who owns grs mototrsport, to knock me up a custom intercooler. He is the master of intercoolers lol, he is very big on the ford rs scene ie cosworth and the new mini cooper s, the one for the mini performed much better than the forge one in back to back tests. It is also ranked as the best top mount available for the cooper s.
Snipage . . . .
Two very crucial issues. Firstly you are talking of "custom builds" - which can be very expensive compared to "off the shelf" items such as the S3 or Forge.
Secondly, the Mini has a seriously compromised engine bay, and mounting of intercoolers is seriously compromised by a complete lack of space. Top mounted intercoolers are hugely less efficient compared to an identical spec front mount intercooler. Even side mount intercoolers are better than top mounts.
Sadly, the Mini is style before substance, and suffers from too many engineering compromises.
EDIT: Oh, and GRS welding in no better than either the Forge or OEM S3 welding! :rolleyes:
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Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
It is quite a bit more difficult compared to just removing the bumper, and requires two pairs of axle stands, when most "home mechanics" will probably have just one pair.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Agreed to a point. Yes, the S3 is very "OEM", however, what you forget is the fact that both the standard GTI cooler and the S3 cooler will both be subjected to heat from the air-con condensor - not a huge issue for most of time here in Blighty, but for the OP in Malta, then the a/c condensor will be chucking out a fair bit of heat straight into the S3 cooler. The is a huge advantage for the Forge.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
But you have not taken labour charges into account!
I never used any axle stands. All that was needed was something to support the A/C,I/C,Radiator assembly when the Intercooler was getting removed. The job can be done with the wheels on the car and without it being jacked up ;)
With regard to hotter countries, you may well be correct, but I can count on 1 hand the number of times I had on the A/C this year in the UK so for me at least, this is not an issue. For those in hot countries, S3 intercooler plus the likes of a twin core may be better. This has been tried and tested in the USA with good results.
With regard to labour charges, the likes of Star do the core change in 2 hours now which is less than £100. Add that to the £300 purchase price, and it still costs about half what a Forge Twintercooler costs without fitting.
I actually did a guide on how I did it and my memory was obviously getting crash bar and slam panel mixed up lol.
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....
Excellent info!! :afro:
The only problem is that it's still difficult to decide which to fit - S3 i/c or Forge i/c? [Ignoring cost differences as I tend to do]. I expect you're going to say "Both!" T-T.
Just to throw another spanner in the works - I wonder what the Mk6 GTI i/c is like and whether it'll fit the Mk5. And does the latest 2009 S3 have the same i/c or have there been further VAG improvements?
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....
Excellent info!! :afro:
The only problem is that it's still difficult to decide which to fit - S3 i/c or Forge i/c? [Ignoring cost differences as I tend to do]. I expect you're going to say "Both!" T-T.
Just to throw another spanner in the works - I wonder what the Mk6 GTI i/c is like and whether it'll fit the Mk5. And does the latest 2009 S3 have the same i/c or have there been further VAG improvements?
Not sure if this is gonna be relevant to you RR. Before we fitted one of the S3 cores, we logged a Revo'd Cupra with a TBE and uprated air intake. Intake temperatures were approx 34oC max. On the same bit of road within 10 minutes, a standard MK1 Leon Cupra R with full exhaust, uprated intake, forge FMIC and standard code logged 30oC max intake temperature.
That was a difference of just over 10%. With the S3 core fitted, a stage 2 Leon Cupra will always return lower intake temperature than the standard Leon Cupra R with the Forge Front Mount.
I do not know of two indentical 2.0T cars, one with an S3 core and the other with a Forge Twintercooler to test back to back and compare inlet temps, but it would be interesting to see the result.
-
Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
It is quite a bit more difficult compared to just removing the bumper, and requires two pairs of axle stands, when most "home mechanics" will probably have just one pair.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Agreed to a point. Yes, the S3 is very "OEM", however, what you forget is the fact that both the standard GTI cooler and the S3 cooler will both be subjected to heat from the air-con condensor - not a huge issue for most of time here in Blighty, but for the OP in Malta, then the a/c condensor will be chucking out a fair bit of heat straight into the S3 cooler. The is a huge advantage for the Forge.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
But you have not taken labour charges into account!
I never used any axle stands. All that was needed was something to support the A/C,I/C,Radiator assembly when the Intercooler was getting removed. The job can be done with the wheels on the car and without it being jacked up ;)
OK, fairy nuff. But the issue is that basically there needs to be an additional method of supporting the relevent bits, be that blocks of wood, bricks, breeze blocks, or even bags of ice cubes in this chilly weather!. :tongue: :smiley: :evil:
With regard to hotter countries, you may well be correct, but I can count on 1 hand the number of times I had on the A/C this year in the UK so for me at least, this is not an issue. For those in hot countries, S3 intercooler plus the likes of a twin core may be better. This has been tried and tested in the USA with good results.
Maybe you don't like using the air con, but many peeps keep their air con on permanently, and even here in Blighty, the air con can have a noticeable effect on the standard intercooler. Forge is completly isolated from this.
Furthermore, you forget that the standard cooler (GTI or S3) is bolted directly and very close to the very hot coolant radiator, and will suffer from heat conduction, at an increased rate directly proportionate to the increased requirements of IAT cooling - the harder you cane the car, the more cooling effect is required of the intercooler, but at the same time, more heat is generated by the engine and sent to the coolant rad. Again, the Forge is isolated from this. :nerd: :smug:
With regard to labour charges, the likes of Star do the core change in 2 hours now which is less than £100. Add that to the £300 purchase price, and it still costs less than half what a Forge Twintercooler costs without fitting.
Hmmmm . . . 2 hours does seem rather quick. Does that include more than one techy working at the same time?
And don't forget that the Forge could be fitted in probably a quarter of the time it takes for the S3 i/c. If you are "darn sarf", and paying higher hourly rates, then this will have a proportionally direct affect on the prices.
I do agree that the Forge is overpriced though, but it is a very good piece of kit, and can be had for £600 all in. :wink:
I actually did a guide on how I did it and my memory was obviously getting crash bar and slam panel mixed up lol.
Was that over on SCN? :smiley:
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....
Excellent info!! :afro:
The only problem is that it's still difficult to decide which to fit - S3 i/c or Forge i/c? [Ignoring cost differences as I tend to do]. I expect you're going to say "Both!" T-T.
Both - you can't take your money with you! :wink: :tongue: :evil:
Just to throw another spanner in the works - I wonder what the Mk6 GTI i/c is like and whether it'll fit the Mk5. And does the latest 2009 S3 have the same i/c or have there been further VAG improvements?
If the Mk6 GTI is the same as the Rocco, then it has identical i/c, rads and the like as the Mk5. And I doubt the S3 will have any further evolutions in that specific department either - the current S3 cooler really is as good as any aftermarket one, in terms of its design and engineering.
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Not sure if this is gonna be relevant to you RR. Before we fitted one of the S3 cores, we logged a Revo'd Cupra with a TBE and uprated air intake. Intake temperatures were approx 34oC max. On the same bit of road within 10 minutes, a standard MK1 Leon Cupra R with full exhaust, uprated intake, forge FMIC and standard code logged 30oC max intake temperature.
That was a difference of just over 10%. With the S3 core fitted, a stage 2 Leon Cupra will always return lower intake temperature than the standard Leon Cupra R with the Forge Front Mount.
Huh - how can you state such illogical and meaningless conclusions? It is like comparing chalk with cheese! :shocked: A Mk2 Cupra, with stage 2, and an S3 cooler - against a Mk1 Cupra, with standard ECU and a completely different I/C to the "TWINtercooler". Different engines, different ECUs, different aerodynamics, ect, ect! :rolleyes:
As individual coolers, both the S3 and the Forge coolers have each been proven to provide noticeable improvements to IATs.
I do not know of two indentical 2.0T cars, one with an S3 core and the other with a Forge Twintercooler to test back to back and compare inlet temps, but it would be interesting to see the result.
But both scenarios have been proven to work.
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Not sure if this is gonna be relevant to you RR. Before we fitted one of the S3 cores, we logged a Revo'd Cupra with a TBE and uprated air intake. Intake temperatures were approx 34oC max. On the same bit of road within 10 minutes, a standard MK1 Leon Cupra R with full exhaust, uprated intake, forge FMIC and standard code logged 30oC max intake temperature.
That was a difference of just over 10%. With the S3 core fitted, a stage 2 Leon Cupra will always return lower intake temperature than the standard Leon Cupra R with the Forge Front Mount.
Huh - how can you state such illogical and meaningless conclusions? It is like comparing chalk with cheese! :shocked: A Mk2 Cupra, with stage 2, and an S3 cooler - against a Mk1 Cupra, with standard ECU and a completely different I/C to the "TWINtercooler". Different engines, different ECUs, different aerodynamics, ect, ect! :rolleyes:
As individual coolers, both the S3 and the Forge coolers have each been proven to provide noticeable improvements to IATs.
I do not know of two indentical 2.0T cars, one with an S3 core and the other with a Forge Twintercooler to test back to back and compare inlet temps, but it would be interesting to see the result.
But both scenarios have been proven to work.
My point is that the OEM core in the GTi is a lot more efficient than people are giving it credit for. The GTi core is used in the GTi/Ed30/Cupra/FR/Pirelli. The S3 core and its approx 20% drop in inlet temps over the GTi core makes a tuned 2.0T cooler than a non tuned 225bhp 1.8T :smiley:
A tuned car is gonna develop higher inlet temps than a non tuned car regardless of it being a 1.8T or a 2.0T so to see a 300+bhp tuned 2.0T with lower inlet temps than a "standard" 1.8T with a big Forge FMIC is interesting.
For sure the 1.8T and 2.0T engines are chalk and cheese to use your analogy, and the 2.0T is more advanced and therefore more likely to be more efficient stock vs stock against a 2.0T, but inlet temps are inlet temps :smiley:
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Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
It is quite a bit more difficult compared to just removing the bumper, and requires two pairs of axle stands, when most "home mechanics" will probably have just one pair.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Agreed to a point. Yes, the S3 is very "OEM", however, what you forget is the fact that both the standard GTI cooler and the S3 cooler will both be subjected to heat from the air-con condensor - not a huge issue for most of time here in Blighty, but for the OP in Malta, then the a/c condensor will be chucking out a fair bit of heat straight into the S3 cooler. The is a huge advantage for the Forge.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
But you have not taken labour charges into account!
I never used any axle stands. All that was needed was something to support the A/C,I/C,Radiator assembly when the Intercooler was getting removed. The job can be done with the wheels on the car and without it being jacked up ;)
OK, fairy nuff. But the issue is that basically there needs to be an additional method of supporting the relevent bits, be that blocks of wood, bricks, breeze blocks, or even bags of ice cubes in this chilly weather!. :tongue: :smiley: :evil:
With regard to hotter countries, you may well be correct, but I can count on 1 hand the number of times I had on the A/C this year in the UK so for me at least, this is not an issue. For those in hot countries, S3 intercooler plus the likes of a twin core may be better. This has been tried and tested in the USA with good results.
Maybe you don't like using the air con, but many peeps keep their air con on permanently, and even here in Blighty, the air con can have a noticeable effect on the standard intercooler. Forge is completly isolated from this.
Furthermore, you forget that the standard cooler (GTI or S3) is bolted directly and very close to the very hot coolant radiator, and will suffer from heat conduction, at an increased rate directly proportionate to the increased requirements of IAT cooling - the harder you cane the car, the more cooling effect is required of the intercooler, but at the same time, more heat is generated by the engine and sent to the coolant rad. Again, the Forge is isolated from this. :nerd: :smug:
With regard to labour charges, the likes of Star do the core change in 2 hours now which is less than £100. Add that to the £300 purchase price, and it still costs less than half what a Forge Twintercooler costs without fitting.
Hmmmm . . . 2 hours does seem rather quick. Does that include more than one techy working at the same time?
And don't forget that the Forge could be fitted in probably a quarter of the time it takes for the S3 i/c. If you are "darn sarf", and paying higher hourly rates, then this will have a proportionally direct affect on the prices.
I do agree that the Forge is overpriced though, but it is a very good piece of kit, and can be had for £600 all in. :wink:
I actually did a guide on how I did it and my memory was obviously getting crash bar and slam panel mixed up lol.
Was that over on SCN? :smiley:
Keith would be able to tell you how many people did his car. I am sure he was something like £130 to fit the intercooler and fuel pump on his car all in.
Having not done a Forge, I am not sure how long it would take, but the 2 things that take longest in the job is taking the bumper off and aligning the headlights. Even if you use the screws like you suggest, they still dont align properly when you re-install them.
I would be surprised if a twintercooler could be done in 30 minutes, but not done one yet :smiley:
Cant remember if I posted the guide for the S3 or not, but I will look for the photos we took :smiley:
By the way, wasnt there issues with the big intercooler core affecting the radiator efficiency on the 1.8T's?
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Not sure if this is gonna be relevant to you RR. Before we fitted one of the S3 cores, we logged a Revo'd Cupra with a TBE and uprated air intake. Intake temperatures were approx 34oC max. On the same bit of road within 10 minutes, a standard MK1 Leon Cupra R with full exhaust, uprated intake, forge FMIC and standard code logged 30oC max intake temperature.
That was a difference of just over 10%. With the S3 core fitted, a stage 2 Leon Cupra will always return lower intake temperature than the standard Leon Cupra R with the Forge Front Mount.
Huh - how can you state such illogical and meaningless conclusions? It is like comparing chalk with cheese! :shocked: A Mk2 Cupra, with stage 2, and an S3 cooler - against a Mk1 Cupra, with standard ECU and a completely different I/C to the "TWINtercooler". Different engines, different ECUs, different aerodynamics, ect, ect! :rolleyes:
As individual coolers, both the S3 and the Forge coolers have each been proven to provide noticeable improvements to IATs.
I do not know of two indentical 2.0T cars, one with an S3 core and the other with a Forge Twintercooler to test back to back and compare inlet temps, but it would be interesting to see the result.
But both scenarios have been proven to work.
My point is that the OEM core in the GTi is a lot more efficient than people are giving it credit for. The GTi core is used in the GTi/Ed30/Cupra/FR/Pirelli.
I don't think anyone here has "discredited" the standard GTI cooler at all. :huh: The actual discussion was simply to compare the pros and cons between the S3 cooler and the Forge cooler. And each has their own significant advantages and disadvantages. :nerd:
The S3 core and its approx 20% drop in inlet temps over the GTi core makes a tuned 2.0T cooler than a non tuned 225bhp 1.8T :smiley:
But that is still an irrelevent comparision. How, specifically does that address the differences between the S3 and the Forge coolers? It doesn't! :lipsrsealed:
A tuned car is gonna develop higher inlet temps than a non tuned car regardless of it being a 1.8T or a 2.0T so to see a 300+bhp tuned 2.0T with lower inlet temps than a "standard" 1.8T with a big Forge FMIC is interesting.
For sure the 1.8T and 2.0T engines are chalk and cheese to use your analogy, and the 2.0T is more advanced and therefore more likely to be more efficient stock vs stock against a 2.0T, but inlet temps are inlet temps :smiley:
And I think we all agree that a "tuned" car, particularly a "turbo" - will develop higher inlet air temps. Again, that isn't the issue. The crux of my concern is that the 1.8 20vT is a generation behind the 2.0T FSI, and the two should never attempted to be compared side by side. It is like trying to compare the handling of two cars - one with a solid rear axle and leaf springs to the other with fully independent suspension with coil springs! :rolleyes:
Furthermore, you failed to answer my point on the different aerodynamic profiles between the Mk1 and Mk2 Cupras - the specific placement of the i/c may be affected by different air flows, dependent on the frontal aero profile - to such an extreme that a FMIC may work well on one car, wheras on the other car, SMICs may be more efficient. :nerd:
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Just as I said, it would be great to compare 2 identical 2.0T cars, one with an S3 core and the other with a Twintercooler :smiley:
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Yes
Will be nice too test both
I think I will more go forge and paint it black, as I dont want to mess with the cars front panel .
The only thing is if they perform the same the forge is a better option for me, as I am doing the Oettinger 330bhp conversion (just software mainly) as I have a milltek TB waiting on the floor :grin: and forge IC instead of S3
I imagine the software will work well with the Forge will it ???
Anyone
Thanks
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I run the S3 one and love it, I've fitted and removed a forge one for someone and I wouldn't buy one I'm afraid.
Why not? :huh:
I don't think it's one of their finest products if I'm honest Sean, certainly on the Octavia it's not a great installation.
Perhaps it is slightly different on the GTi.
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I think I will more go forge and paint it black,
You can ask that the Forge IC to be in black from your supplier.
It will also work with your Oettinger map.
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painted Black? will that not affect the i/c ?
Think there was 2 fitting my intake and S3 intercooler @ £132 whuch i thought was :smiley:
You could also buy the Oettinger Intercooler which looks like a Audi S3 part with an oet badge on it.
If anyones interested my ED30 intercooler is for sale.
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I am commenting after being told by Awesome that you can get it in black.
iirc Hurdy has his in black as well.
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I am commenting after being told by Awesome that you can get it in black.
iirc Hurdy has his in black as well.
Yup, mine is black and I also ordered the pipes in black too :smiley:
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Whats the problem with taking off the front "panel"?
It is quite a bit more difficult compared to just removing the bumper, and requires two pairs of axle stands, when most "home mechanics" will probably have just one pair.
The good thing about the S3 core is that it has OEM appearance, and it wont restrict air to the A/C core or the OEM Cooler, and it does give 20% decrease in inlet temp over the OEM core.
Agreed to a point. Yes, the S3 is very "OEM", however, what you forget is the fact that both the standard GTI cooler and the S3 cooler will both be subjected to heat from the air-con condensor - not a huge issue for most of time here in Blighty, but for the OP in Malta, then the a/c condensor will be chucking out a fair bit of heat straight into the S3 cooler. The is a huge advantage for the Forge.
Also, you could have an S3 core and a cat back exhaust for the price of a Forge unit.
But you have not taken labour charges into account!
I never used any axle stands. All that was needed was something to support the A/C,I/C,Radiator assembly when the Intercooler was getting removed. The job can be done with the wheels on the car and without it being jacked up ;)
OK, fairy nuff. But the issue is that basically there needs to be an additional method of supporting the relevent bits, be that blocks of wood, bricks, breeze blocks, or even bags of ice cubes in this chilly weather!. :tongue: :smiley: :evil:
With regard to hotter countries, you may well be correct, but I can count on 1 hand the number of times I had on the A/C this year in the UK so for me at least, this is not an issue. For those in hot countries, S3 intercooler plus the likes of a twin core may be better. This has been tried and tested in the USA with good results.
Maybe you don't like using the air con, but many peeps keep their air con on permanently, and even here in Blighty, the air con can have a noticeable effect on the standard intercooler. Forge is completly isolated from this.
Furthermore, you forget that the standard cooler (GTI or S3) is bolted directly and very close to the very hot coolant radiator, and will suffer from heat conduction, at an increased rate directly proportionate to the increased requirements of IAT cooling - the harder you cane the car, the more cooling effect is required of the intercooler, but at the same time, more heat is generated by the engine and sent to the coolant rad. Again, the Forge is isolated from this. :nerd: :smug:
With regard to labour charges, the likes of Star do the core change in 2 hours now which is less than £100. Add that to the £300 purchase price, and it still costs less than half what a Forge Twintercooler costs without fitting.
Hmmmm . . . 2 hours does seem rather quick. Does that include more than one techy working at the same time?
And don't forget that the Forge could be fitted in probably a quarter of the time it takes for the S3 i/c. If you are "darn sarf", and paying higher hourly rates, then this will have a proportionally direct affect on the prices.
I do agree that the Forge is overpriced though, but it is a very good piece of kit, and can be had for £600 all in. :wink:
I actually did a guide on how I did it and my memory was obviously getting crash bar and slam panel mixed up lol.
Was that over on SCN? :smiley:
Keith would be able to tell you how many people did his car. I am sure he was something like £130 to fit the intercooler and fuel pump on his car all in.
Having not done a Forge, I am not sure how long it would take, but the 2 things that take longest in the job is taking the bumper off and aligning the headlights. Even if you use the screws like you suggest, they still dont align properly when you re-install them.
Headlights wont need to be touched for the Forge.
I would be surprised if a twintercooler could be done in 30 minutes, but not done one yet :smiley:
If you have never pulled off the front bumper before, then it will take longer. But if you are proficient, and know your way around, then the Forge could be fully fitted in 30 to 45 minutes, quite easily. When Forge show their cars at the likes of GTI International, they pull off the front bumpers in about 5 minutes flat!
By the way, wasnt there issues with the big intercooler core affecting the radiator efficiency on the 1.8T's?
Dunno, but again, chalk and cheese. The cooling system on the Mk5 GTI is fully electronically controlled, from the "Coolant Control Module" part of engine ECU. And the Mk5s have a more than adequate cooling system, even for towing and use in hot climes without any extra "uprating" of the cooling system required.
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The only thing is if they perform the same the forge is a better option for me, as I am doing the Oettinger 330bhp conversion (just software mainly) as I have a milltek TB waiting on the floor :grin: and forge IC instead of S3
Hmmmm . . . if you are cranking up an Ed30 to 330 horses, then I would personally recommend fitting both coolers. With a freer flowing zorst, you will want to match that with freer flowing inlet tract. Even on a standard GTI, with the standard 200 ponies, fitting both does give cumulative benefits.
I imagine the software will work well with the Forge will it ???
Should do.
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I run the S3 one and love it, I've fitted and removed a forge one for someone and I wouldn't buy one I'm afraid.
Why not? :huh:
I don't think it's one of their finest products if I'm honest Sean, certainly on the Octavia it's not a great installation.
Oh. Any particular reasons? Or did it just not "look right"?
Perhaps it is slightly different on the GTi.
I think it is fine and tidy fitment on the GTI. If I were to be super critical, then the only issue is where the exterior air temp is remounted to - but other than that, I reckon it is up to OEM standards of fitment and finish.
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painted Black? will that not affect the i/c ?
Not really. OK, the paint may have a teeny weeny percentage loss on the efficiency of heat transfer to the external airflow, bu that would be seriously negligable, when compared to the "stealth" look of being painted black.
You could also buy the Oettinger Intercooler which looks like a Audi S3 part with an oet badge on it.
The Oettinger intercooler is actually a genuine Audi S3 cooler, but with their own badge added! :rolleyes: Proves just how good the OEM S3 cooler is though, if Oettinger could come up with nothing better. :smug:
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painted Black? will that not affect the i/c ?
Not really. OK, the paint may have a teeny weeny percentage loss on the efficiency of heat transfer to the external airflow, bu that would be seriously negligable, when compared to the "stealth" look of being painted black.
You could also buy the Oettinger Intercooler which looks like a Audi S3 part with an oet badge on it.
The Oettinger intercooler is actually a genuine Audi S3 cooler, but with their own badge added! :rolleyes: Proves just how good the OEM S3 cooler is though, if Oettinger could come up with nothing better. :smug:
Have you seen the diference in price from buying an orig S3 i/c and buying a rebranded Oet one. A good few pounds dif.
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....
I've noticed that oettinger have also used the Carbonio ram intake (the carbonfibre pretty one) as part of their tuning packages on that engine but with the Carbonio badge removed.
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....
I've noticed that oettinger have also used the Carbonio ram intake (the carbonfibre pretty one) as part of their tuning packages on that engine but with the Carbonio badge removed.
Oettinger Stage 2:
330ps/460Nm, S3 intercooler, carbonio intake, fuel pump, exhaust from cat.
3950 Euro.
Is that expensive or not? :undecided:
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....
I've noticed that oettinger have also used the Carbonio ram intake (the carbonfibre pretty one) as part of their tuning packages on that engine but with the Carbonio badge removed.
Oettinger Stage 2:
330ps/460Nm, S3 intercooler, carbonio intake, fuel pump, exhaust from cat.
3950 Euro.
Is that expensive or not? :undecided:
I would say a bit expensive compared to a package like this that includes a Turbo back Exhaust and a better intake - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K4-stage2.htm :evil:
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Yes it's expensive but all Oettinger stuff is.
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It is expensive that Oettinger conversion :shocked:
That works out around £3,200.
Milltek TBE fitted = £1100
Carbonio = £165
Intercooler fitted = £800 max
Pump and map = £750
Total = £2800 With a full TBE.
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Yes it's expensive but all Oettinger stuff is.
....As is APR and one owns the other nowadays IIRC.
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....
I've noticed that oettinger have also used the Carbonio ram intake (the carbonfibre pretty one) as part of their tuning packages on that engine but with the Carbonio badge removed.
Oettinger Stage 2:
330ps/460Nm, S3 intercooler, carbonio intake, fuel pump, exhaust from cat.
3950 Euro.
Is that expensive or not? :undecided:
I would say a bit expensive compared to a package like this that includes a Turbo back Exhaust and a better intake - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K4-stage2.htm :evil:
I wish we had a package for this price in Switzerland :cry:
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....
I've noticed that oettinger have also used the Carbonio ram intake (the carbonfibre pretty one) as part of their tuning packages on that engine but with the Carbonio badge removed.
Oettinger Stage 2:
330ps/460Nm, S3 intercooler, carbonio intake, fuel pump, exhaust from cat.
3950 Euro.
Is that expensive or not? :undecided:
I would say a bit expensive compared to a package like this that includes a Turbo back Exhaust and a better intake - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K4-stage2.htm :evil:
I wish we had a package for this price in Switzerland :cry:
If it's that great why not drive over and get it done here? :smiley:
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....
I've noticed that oettinger have also used the Carbonio ram intake (the carbonfibre pretty one) as part of their tuning packages on that engine but with the Carbonio badge removed.
Oettinger Stage 2:
330ps/460Nm, S3 intercooler, carbonio intake, fuel pump, exhaust from cat.
3950 Euro.
Is that expensive or not? :undecided:
I would say a bit expensive compared to a package like this that includes a Turbo back Exhaust and a better intake - http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/jkmtfsi-K4-stage2.htm :evil:
I wish we had a package for this price in Switzerland :cry:
If it's that great why not drive over and get it done here? :smiley:
drive would be more expensive
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but would be a hell of a drive home :evil: