GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: RedRobin on 08 September 2008, 11:49
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....Quite a few Mk5 GTI/Ed30 guys have gone to the Audi S3 as their next car.
Although, like most Audi's, they are apparently a better quality build, they generally tend to look more 'grown-up' and consequently a bit dull unless you modify them. For me it would have to be a S3 Sportback with S-tronic (DSG) version. I must admit that quattro is very attractive, but......What do people here think about the S3 vs GTI/Ed30 ?
I particularly like this one : -
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j110/ultimatetaba8/5coils6copy.jpg)
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I've had the MKI A3 TDI Quattro and the grip was great, the build quality was half a step up from the VW and with a remap it went like the clappers. I've driven the MKII S3 and it is also a lovely car - just a bit too efficient and clinical IMHO and that doesn't equal fun. Don't get me wrong, it is a lovely car and worth the money, it just leaves you a bit cold. :undecided:
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My mates got the old S3 and thats an awesome car his had it chipped and has a panel filter so is about 260bhp I would definatly get the new one 265bhp standard. Ill get one 1 day. :cool:
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If the s3 and ed30 were the same price it would be the S3 every time. But as a nicely specced s3 (bucket seats, satnav etc) would be close to £30k i would spend my money elsewhere.
If only audi would put a nice 5cyl lump in the s3 :evil:
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Thats the only problem with Audi's the price. I would wait a while and get a used 1 will save a fortune that way. Although with the market as it is at the moment I reckon you could do some good haggling with a new 1 at the moment. :cool:
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If the s3 and ed30 were the same price it would be the S3 every time. But as a nicely specced s3 (bucket seats, satnav etc) would be close to £30k i would spend my money elsewhere.
If only audi would put a nice 5cyl lump in the s3 :evil:
....Yep, I'd want it factory loaded too, and so the S3 would cost a lot more and still need some aftermarket mods to liven it up.
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
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Agree RR - I perceive the Audi to be better built and a step up from VW. I have owned several of each brand and also consider the Audi to be a more mature car, with the ownership experience indicating a step-up in class.
Having gone that route over recent years though (Audi A4 T Sport, Audi TT, Porsche Boxster), I have found myself returning to the GTI, which I consider to be the best all round affordable car for my needs. I have not seriously gone down the modding route for many years now, instead choosing to put my own cash into upgrading my car to a better model. As we all know, mods, like optional extras are rarely recouped come resale and that's the reason I'm now sticking with my beloved GTI.
I do not personally like the looks of the A3 as a model and feel that it looks too heavy from all angles, particularly the rear 3/4's. I agree it does look better with slightly lower suspension and larger wheels/tyres, but I ain't a big fan. As stated, it is better built and the driving dynamics of the quattro 4WD system are good but you do lose some of the fun of driving a FWD car.
The Mk V GTI is also a mature car IMHO, and given that it has now been around since 2005 and is due to be replaced by the Mk VI next year, it is now affordable to a much larger market and younger ownership, who naturally want to buy it and mod it.
If I was going to change the GTI for an Audi, it would only be for something like an RS4 which has much more visual impact and is a proper tool, but the price differential could be too much for many.
Just my two-penneth :undecided:
Cass
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Thats the only problem with Audi's the price. I would wait a while and get a used 1 will save a fortune that way. Although with the market as it is at the moment I reckon you could do some good haggling with a new 1 at the moment. :cool:
....Very true but the problem is that I know exactly what spec I would want: Sportback, S-tronic, red, Recaro buckets, sunroof, Xenons, etc - Fat chance of finding one! And then I'd want to add Milltek, different alloys, suspension, brakes(?), intake.
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....Hi Cass - I agree! I think that the Mk5 GTI/Ed30 in particular takes a lot of beating as a 'fun' car. The GTI is a great allrounder and is probably more tactile in its feel to drive (at least mine is!). I've been offered a drive in a modded new S3 (manual) by a friend and I'm going to arrange a test drive in a dealer's S-tronic S3 if only to get the worm out of my brain. I had a similar Mk5 R32 worm a while ago.
The other thing too is that the GTI is so iconic and has such a huge following of enthusiasts, although there are of course S3 enthusiasts but it's not quite the same.
:afro:
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i test drove one on sunday (yesterday) and loved it, to be fair it didnt blow me awayas my gti has simular power but it just fet alot "better"??!! i cant think of another word that decribes it to the gti.
my plans are to start some seriouse saving and get an "almost new" one. they have one in preston audi for 25k with only 600 miles in white, not a bad price if you ask me!!! :shocked:
will be getting it in white, black bbs ch 19" and eiback coilovers n remap and its finished, oh and milltek :wink: hopefully by january il have one :afro:
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....Hi Cass - I agree! I think that the Mk5 GTI/Ed30 in particular takes a lot of beating as a 'fun' car. The GTI is a great allrounder and is probably more tactile in its feel to drive (at least mine is!). I've been offered a drive in a modded new S3 (manual) by a friend and I'm going to arrange a test drive in a dealer's S-tronic S3 if only to get the worm out of my brain. I had a similar Mk5 R32 worm a while ago.
The other thing too is that the GTI is so iconic and has such a huge following of enthusiasts, although there are of course S3 enthusiasts but it's not quite the same.
:afro:
i think robins getting ready for a change :lipsrsealed: :rolleyes: bet ur not getting the diff now eh :laugh:
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If the s3 and ed30 were the same price it would be the S3 every time. But as a nicely specced s3 (bucket seats, satnav etc) would be close to £30k i would spend my money elsewhere.
If only audi would put a nice 5cyl lump in the s3 :evil:
....Yep, I'd want it factory loaded too, and so the S3 would cost a lot more and still need some aftermarket mods to liven it up.
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
TTRS should be on the driveway next year if all goes well :wink:.
Was thinking of buying an audi s2 and spending £10k ish on it and running 500+bhp total build inc car would give me change from £15k.
And it would sound and go like this :evil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo8AeVECXFE
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IzI2uciaNmY&feature=related
check this one out then :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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I must say that TTRS looks the daddies think my dad will prob end up getting one of them :cool:
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i think robins getting ready for a change :lipsrsealed: :rolleyes: bet ur not getting the diff now eh :laugh:
....No, I'm still getting the diff (next week). It's not going to make my GTI into one with quattro but it will improve traction.
The new S3 Sportback hasn't been announced with S-tronic yet and won't be in the UK until at least next Summer and then I'd want to wait and see what the GTI-R is like too and wait another 12 months IF I was going to change.
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http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/203044/audi_s3.html (http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/203044/audi_s3.html)
"There isn’t much involvement, though, through steering feedback or chassis adjustability. The Golf GTI is sometimes criticised for being a bit dull chassis-wise, yet it engages more than the S3."
I haven't driven one but I'm pretty sure I'd have a GTi over one any day. Besides, they're just so much cooler than a grown up Audi :smug:
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jumped straight out of my ed30 into one,just felt dull.i can't put my finger on it.maybe the four wheel drive,but i had a mk 5 r32 4 wheel drive never put me off that.S3 is seriously overated imo,yes its built slightly better but thats it.Maybe i would have had a different opinion if i came from a 200ps mk 5 gti. It was on my list of possible next cars but not now.plus gti looks so much better.
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What do people here think about the S3 vs GTI/Ed30 ?
I think it is a waste of money. Performance on par with E30, ok better interior, maybe 4x4 (but how often do you need it really). And that for much more money. I don't get it.
If I trade my E30 it would be for something of different shape, like 335i Coupe.
And if I needed a hatch, than why trade at all?
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....Very true but the problem is that I know exactly what spec I would want: Sportback, S-tronic, red, Recaro buckets, sunroof, Xenons, etc - Fat chance of finding one! And then I'd want to add Milltek, different alloys, suspension, brakes(?), intake.
somebody is pining over another car there, hey? :wink:
Me too, only I have the hots for 335i. :cry:
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....I've just been out to visit someone - A round trip of 90 miles - And guess what? - I saw two S3 Sportbacks, both red, on the road. The first one coming towards me on open A-road gave me the impression it was just an A4. The second was in a town and I got a longer look - Very disappointing, very ordinary, and reminded me why I discounted the Sportback when I was originally choosing the GTI.
It's a bit like how we fancy females....Something grabs our initial attention instantly - It can be as simple as her eyes or the way her hair is, or that off-the-shoulder soft cashmere, it can be anything, but it arouses us on some level or other. The Mk5 GTI has that style, that extra something which appeals.
carl1 - It's that indefinable factor - I know what you mean :afro:
Pesky - Good point about the financials - Captain Sensible! :afro:
andrewp - I don't mind growing old just as long as I don't have to grow up! :afro:
I've absolutely no doubt that the S3 is a great car and quattro is very valuable, but even though I haven't driven one yet, there are too many people agreeing with each other that it's too 'grown-up'. I'm 61yo but not ready for being quite so grown-up yet!
I'll still have a test drive - it would be rude to say no.
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....I've just been out to visit someone - A round trip of 90 miles - And guess what? - I saw two S3 Sportbacks, both red, on the road. The first one coming towards me on open A-road gave me the impression it was just an A4. The second was in a town and I got a longer look - Very disappointing, very ordinary, and reminded me why I discounted the Sportback when I was originally choosing the GTI.
It's a bit like how we fancy females....Something grabs our initial attention instantly - It can be as simple as her eyes or the way her hair is, or that off-the-shoulder soft cashmere, it can be anything, but it arouses us on some level or other. The Mk5 GTI has that style, that extra something which appeals.
carl1 - It's that indefinable factor - I know what you mean :afro:
Pesky - Good point about the financials - Captain Sensible! :afro:
andrewp - I don't mind growing old just as long as I don't have to grow up! :afro:
I've absolutely no doubt that the S3 is a great car and quattro is very valuable, but even though I haven't driven one yet, there are too many people agreeing with each other that it's too 'grown-up'. I'm 61yo but not ready for being quite so grown-up yet!
I'll still have a test drive - it would be rude to say no.
as the light caught her hair the smell was overwhelming i new at that moment i was in love but not with her it was her sister i longed for. Red have you been reading Mill's & boon books again. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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....^ :laugh:
All I get time to read is words by blokes on car forums! :grin:
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lad at work has a Red A3 2.0T Quattro with the Sportline pack - nice looking car and the interior is a class act but it just lacks that certain something :undecided:
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lad at work has a Red A3 2.0T Quattro with the Sportline pack - nice looking car and the interior is a class act but it just lacks that certain something :undecided:
....And 'that certain something' is what the GTI has, including some of the earlier Mk's. It's equivalent to sex appeal - It's not big b00bies or nakedness, but something more difficult to define.
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lad at work has a Red A3 2.0T Quattro with the Sportline pack - nice looking car and the interior is a class act but it just lacks that certain something :undecided:
....And 'that certain something' is what the GTI has, including some of the earlier Mk's. It's equivalent to sex appeal - It's not big b00bies or nakedness, but something more difficult to define.
indeed as another mate of mine has one in WHITE with tinted rear windows and that looks :cool:
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Had a sit in a Ibis White S3 today at the Stealer, had two-tone white/black leather. Interior quality was very very impressive IMO, and thought the car felt really really nice. This particular example was 30K.....................seems too much really.
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....I sat in one at Wolfsburg before it was available in the UK. You're right, WhiteGTI - Very impressive feel of quality and even things like the instrumentation put the GTI to shame, but.................
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I think I only echo what other say but.... the Golf definately has the edge in terms of looks and desireability to the untrained eye. But to those of us in the know the s3 is a superior car. The cabin is the main difference for me. A fully spec'd S3 with leathers, sat nav and bose sound system is a very nice place to be, with the benifit of having the performance to match.
on the other hand the golf in 5dr for offers practicality others just cant match without compromising looks :smiley:
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I think I can comment on this 1 :laugh:, the S3 will never have the sharp turn in the GTi/ED30 has, maybe its the weight I don't know. The 4wd does come in useful everyday especially if you start modding :evil:
But the main thing for me is it isn't just a little better screwed together inside, its loads better. It was 1 of my main gripes with both the mk5 GTi's I had, they are not a cheap car yet the interior in my mind doesn't live up to its price tag. They look nice don't get me wrong but it will be interesting to see how they are holding up in a few years time, not as well as a mk4's is my guess.
Just my opinion having had both cars :smiley:
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I think I can comment on this 1 :laugh:, the S3 will never have the sharp turn in the GTi/ED30 has, maybe its the weight I don't know. The 4wd does come in useful everyday especially if you start modding :evil:
But the main thing for me is it isn't just a little better screwed together inside, its loads better. It was 1 of my main gripes with both the mk5 GTi's I had, they are not a cheap car yet the interior in my mind doesn't live up to its price tag. They look nice don't get me wrong but it will be interesting to see how they are holding up in a few years time, not as well as a mk4's is my guess.
Just my opinion having had both cars :smiley:
....Very valid opinion too, gaz :afro:
Personally I quite like the slightly more 'funky' Mk5 GTI interior (I had a Mk4 and I've driven Mk4 R32's which are much more 'luxury' in interior feel) - It all adds to the tactile driving feel. But definitely each to their own :afro:
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Pesky - Good point about the financials - Captain Sensible! :afro:
RR, I am totally insensible! I have my E30 for a wee bit over a year and I already betray it in my mind by salivating over 335i (saw a montego blue yesterday, I almost came in my breaches :lipsrsealed:) and thinking about changing it in a year time. That'll be financial disaster, for sure. :sick:
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lad at work has a Red A3 2.0T Quattro with the Sportline pack - nice looking car and the interior is a class act but it just lacks that certain something :undecided:
S3 is not A3 2.0T...
Still, changing from E30 to S3 - to me it seems very strange (unless one REALLY needs a premium hatch).
S3 as a first hot hatch - yes.
S3 as replacement for E30 - waste of money. Get A4 or TTS (different shape, at least).
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I think I only echo what other say but.... the Golf definately has the edge in terms of looks and desireability to the untrained eye. But to those of us in the know the s3 is a superior car. The cabin is the main difference for me. A fully spec'd S3 with leathers, sat nav and bose sound system is a very nice place to be, with the benifit of having the performance to match.
on the other hand the golf in 5dr for offers practicality others just cant match without compromising looks :smiley:
the biggest problem with E30 to me is its hight. It's like a buss. :lipsrsealed:
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lad at work has a Red A3 2.0T Quattro with the Sportline pack - nice looking car and the interior is a class act but it just lacks that certain something :undecided:
S3 is not A3 2.0T...
Still, changing from E30 to S3 - to me it seems very strange (unless one REALLY needs a premium hatch).
S3 as a first hot hatch - yes.
S3 as replacement for E30 - waste of money. Get A4 or TTS (different shape, at least).
but the thread is about VW against Audi in general hence why i posted about it and its not very visually different from the S3
i teased the lad in work about it as he paid £22K!! for it!! i told him he could have had a brand new GTI and have change :lipsrsealed: he wasn't happy about it :laugh: :laugh:
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But the main thing for me is it isn't just a little better screwed together inside, its loads better. It was 1 of my main gripes with both the mk5 GTi's I had, they are not a cheap car yet the interior in my mind doesn't live up to its price tag. They look nice don't get me wrong but it will be interesting to see how they are holding up in a few years time, not as well as a mk4's is my guess.
I agree. Mine is 20000km and there is a rattle from behind somewhere, I cannot place it. Also, the "moonroof" is rattling when open.
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lad at work has a Red A3 2.0T Quattro with the Sportline pack - nice looking car and the interior is a class act but it just lacks that certain something :undecided:
S3 is not A3 2.0T...
Still, changing from E30 to S3 - to me it seems very strange (unless one REALLY needs a premium hatch).
S3 as a first hot hatch - yes.
S3 as replacement for E30 - waste of money. Get A4 or TTS (different shape, at least).
but the thread is about VW against Audi in general hence why i posted about it and its not very visually different from the S3
In general?
Well, then VW is just nowhere near Audi - RS2, RS4, RS6, TTS, (TTRS). I do not mention S5 because it does not do it for me. But the usual A4 with sport package and 211bhp engine, I see it every day, that is a thing of beauty. :kiss:
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i teased the lad in work about it as he paid £22K!! for it!! i told him he could have had a brand new GTI and have change :lipsrsealed: he wasn't happy about it :laugh: :laugh:
yeah, it may be dull, the A3, compared to GTI (it definitely is), but he still drives a premium product.
Appearances mean a lot, whatever you may say.
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Pesky - Good point about the financials - Captain Sensible! :afro:
RR, I am totally insensible! I have my E30 for a wee bit over a year and I already betray it in my mind by salivating over 335i (saw a montego blue yesterday, I almost came in my breaches :lipsrsealed:) and thinking about changing it in a year time. That'll be financial disaster, for sure. :sick:
Stunning colour...
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....I know I posted the thread title as "vs" (versus) but it wasn't my intention to start off a brand war - Such discussions never reach a conclusion anyway. I was just referring to the S3 comparison with the GTI as they are in some ways rivals.
Btw, I do find that I get more hassle from S3 drivers wanting to 'take me on' than any other car - I'm generalising but some seem to want to prove something. I had a friendly with a black dude in a nice blue S3 which he'd been taking up the quarter-mile at Inters earlier in the year but he responded to my courtesy and it was all very friendly but spirited. His S3 was faster anyway I think - Probably modded and of course quattro traction.
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Pesky - Good point about the financials - Captain Sensible! :afro:
RR, I am totally insensible! I have my E30 for a wee bit over a year and I already betray it in my mind by salivating over 335i (saw a montego blue yesterday, I almost came in my breaches :lipsrsealed:) and thinking about changing it in a year time. That'll be financial disaster, for sure. :sick:
Stunning colour...
looks much better than in online catalog, for sure
but my favourite for 335i is dark gray (even though I generally do not care for ubiquitious black, silver, and gray cars), and the 5-spoke BMW 18-inchers. :drool: But these rims do not come with the M-package. :sad: I wonder what this M-package really adds to the car handling ability.
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....I know I posted the thread title as "vs" (versus) but it wasn't my intention to start off a brand war - Such discussions never reach a conclusion anyway. I was just referring to the S3 comparison with the GTI as they are in some ways rivals.
Btw, I do find that I get more hassle from S3 drivers wanting to 'take me on' than any other car - I'm generalising but some seem to want to prove something. I had a friendly with a black dude in a nice blue S3 which he'd been taking up the quarter-mile at Inters earlier in the year but he responded to my courtesy and it was all very friendly but spirited. His S3 was faster anyway I think - Probably modded and of course quattro traction.
I do not take the challenges at all. From the start I am no match for S3, but on the road, we can see who is who, still my E30 is not modded.
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DId not want to highjack the thread, RR, sorry. :smiley:
AUDI is a premium product, and it costs.
S3 only as a first hot hatch, not as replacement for E30. Other A3's are for appearances only.
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DId not want to highjack the thread, RR, sorry. :smiley:
....No problem :smiley: - I'm always doing it - Quite unintentionally but it's just like a face-to-face conversation which often changes subject naturally when you go with the flow. My occasional posting of pretty ladies doesn't help either!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/vwdriverswanted.jpg) OR (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/audichick-3.jpg)
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Love the S3, could of had one. But it was either a BOG standard S3 or a loaded Ed30. I needed my toys... :wink:
Oh and loving that first pic Red.. The Camel Hoof GTI :grin:
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I've been back for 3 looks :kiss:
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I've been back for 3 looks :kiss:
....And did you get third time lucky? :grin:
[You shouldn't encourage me to post such images :afro:]
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....
[deleted due to getting posted twice!]
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no but its made want to go to bed and give the misses a nudge :drool:
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no but its made want to go to bed and give the misses a nudge :drool:
....^ :laugh: That's made me laugh out loud :smiley: - Nice one! May you enjoy your night.
If she asks you why you are suddenly feeling so horny, just tell her it was RedRobin! :evil:
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....Is it just me? Or is it gaz's comment? But do the words "VeeDub vs FourRings" conjure up rude thoughts? :evil:
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Never thought the VW had a snatchy box and the Audi's I've owned never had rings that big :laugh:
Cass
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/audichick-3.jpg)
She has two extra rings on either side of that logo there.... :kiss:
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DId not want to highjack the thread, RR, sorry. :smiley:
....No problem :smiley: - I'm always doing it - Quite unintentionally but it's just like a face-to-face conversation which often changes subject naturally when you go with the flow. My occasional posting of pretty ladies doesn't help either!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/vwdriverswanted.jpg) OR (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/audichick-3.jpg)
ive seen this pics about 50 times and i only just realised its ment to be the bonnet on an old bug :grin: :grin:
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How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control) :sick:
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If I was going to change the GTI for an Audi, it would only be for something like an RS4 which has much more visual impact and is a proper tool, but the price differential could be too much for many.
Why not both like me . . . I'll get my coat! :evil:
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....Hi Cass - I agree! I think that the Mk5 GTI/Ed30 in particular takes a lot of beating as a 'fun' car. The GTI is a great allrounder and is probably more tactile in its feel to drive (at least mine is!). I've been offered a drive in a modded new S3 (manual) by a friend and I'm going to arrange a test drive in a dealer's S-tronic S3 if only to get the worm out of my brain. I had a similar Mk5 R32 worm a while ago.
The other thing too is that the GTI is so iconic and has such a huge following of enthusiasts, although there are of course S3 enthusiasts but it's not quite the same.
:afro:
I agree with your comments - sort of.
But I'd suggest that GTI enthusiasts are so just because of the GTI, rather than the entire VW range. OK, GTI owners may also like the Rocco or the Corrado too, but I doubt GTI owners would be so enthusiastic about the VW Fox.
Regarding the S3 enthusiasts - I would say they have much more enthusiasm for the entire brand of Audi, including all models, rather than just the S3, or S/RS models.
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....I know I posted the thread title as "vs" (versus) but it wasn't my intention to start off a brand war - Such discussions never reach a conclusion anyway. I was just referring to the S3 comparison with the GTI as they are in some ways rivals.
But I don't think they are true comparisons. The S3 should really be compared with the R32. If you really want to compare the GTI with an Audi, then it would have to be an A3 2.0TFSI Sline - which is also a very nice car. I personally don't like the 5 door sportback A3s though - why they didn't just call it an Avant?
Btw, I do find that I get more hassle from S3 drivers wanting to 'take me on' than any other car - I'm generalising but some seem to want to prove something. I had a friendly with a black dude in a nice blue S3 which he'd been taking up the quarter-mile at Inters earlier in the year but he responded to my courtesy and it was all very friendly but spirited. His S3 was faster anyway I think - Probably modded and of course quattro traction.
Just don't take on and S/RS model with real quattro, ie Torsen! :wink: :grin:
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/vwdriverswanted.jpg)
Snatch that . . . :drool:
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DId not want to highjack the thread, RR, sorry. :smiley:
....No problem :smiley: - I'm always doing it - Quite unintentionally but it's just like a face-to-face conversation which often changes subject naturally when you go with the flow. My occasional posting of pretty ladies doesn't help either!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/vwdriverswanted.jpg) OR (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/audichick-3.jpg)
ive seen this pics about 50 times and i only just realised its ment to be the bonnet on an old bug :grin: :grin:
She doesn't look old to me :rolleyes:
Cass
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If I was going to change the GTI for an Audi, it would only be for something like an RS4 which has much more visual impact and is a proper tool, but the price differential could be too much for many.
Why not both like me . . . I'll get my coat! :evil:
TT - I wish - where's me lottery ticket :smug:
Cass
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How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control) :sick:
....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.
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How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control) :sick:
....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.
But that is the classic "issue" of Haldex - it isn't smooth and "transition-free" like other permanent four wheel drive systems such as Torsen. And you can be sure they'll be feeling its effects inside the car. I suppose if you don't mind it, and maybe have come from an Evo or similar, then it will feel normal - but it aint the most efficient way! :wink:
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The 5cyl engine noise is to die for especially audi quattro, s2, rs2 and now the ttrs. I can easily say that is the best sounding engine audi have ever produced. I know not many people would agree but 5cyl is just sounds sooooooooo :cool:
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I had a look at the s3 before i got the gti - have to agree, the interior was alot better compared to the gti's, but at the time the car didn't come as a 5door, didn't have dsg and cost a lot more to purchase and maintain once bought. Now that the 5 door is out, it would be a more difficult decision to make if i had the choice - i'd still go for the gti though as imo it looks much better than the s3 in 5 door guise -the sportback s3 looks a little like an estate. If only the s3 interior could be transferred to the gti :rolleyes: Does the sportback s3 really have dsg as an option?
As for the audi tt, i see a tts with a lady driver everyday on the way to work coming in the opposite direction - the little i do get to see it i don't think it has that much presence on the road when compared to a normal tt.
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control) :sick:
....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.
But that is the classic "issue" of Haldex - it isn't smooth and "transition-free" like other permanent four wheel drive systems such as Torsen. And you can be sure they'll be feeling its effects inside the car. I suppose if you don't mind it, and maybe have come from an Evo or similar, then it will feel normal - but it aint the most efficient way! :wink:
Why would they fit the haldex system over the quattro for the flagship tt? That 5cyl beast sounds very :drool:
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I had a look at the s3 before i got the gti - have to agree, the interior was alot better compared to the gti's, but at the time the car didn't come as a 5door, didn't have dsg and cost a lot more to purchase and maintain once bought. Now that the 5 door is out, it would be a more difficult decision to make if i had the choice - i'd still go for the gti though as imo it looks much better than the s3 in 5 door guise -the sportback s3 looks a little like an estate. If only the s3 interior could be transferred to the gti :rolleyes:
Does the sportback s3 really have dsg as an option?
....3 years ago I did exactly the same as you describe - Seriously considered the S3/A3 Sportback. The Sportback looks a lot like an estate - I particularly noticed that the other day.
So far, the 2009 S3 Sportback hasn't got S-tronic (DSG) as an option but time will tell. I know this from Audi UK.
This is what I'm wearing today : -
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Dub4life_Tshirt.jpg)
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IHow about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 (http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097) <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!
In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control) :sick:
....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.
But that is the classic "issue" of Haldex - it isn't smooth and "transition-free" like other permanent four wheel drive systems such as Torsen. And you can be sure they'll be feeling its effects inside the car. I suppose if you don't mind it, and maybe have come from an Evo or similar, then it will feel normal - but it aint the most efficient way! :wink:
Why would they fit the haldex system over the quattro for the flagship tt?
A couple of points - "quattro" is merely a trademark name which Audi AG use to describe all their cars with four wheel drive (and NOT "all" wheel drive which the yanks like using) systems, irrespective of the method of 4wd. The actual "mechanics" of which system is used is simply down to engine orientation. Cars with longitudinal (north-south) aligned engines use a Torsen centre diff - which is a true, permanent, always-on 4wd system. Cars with transverse engines, like in the Golf or the Audi A3/S3 can only use an Haldex Traction clutch. The Haldex is NOT a diff, and can best be described as an "autonomous, on-demand" part-time 4wd system. Most of the time, a Haldex car operates in just front wheel drive or 2wd mode.
Some interested Haldex reading: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=88976
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Does the haldex gen 2 controller unit fix the issue of the "autonymous" haldex?
Can't you fix it as, say a 40-60 front to rear power split using the controller?
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I had the 3.2 DSG TT (Old model) and must admit it handled like a go cart....I was also a member of the TT owners club which came with loads of useful mods and hints and tips, just like this place.
The Haldex is, as mentioned, not "technically" a 4 wheel drive. As its monitors grip vs rpm vs wheel speed and ensures power is delivered to the four wheels correctly. If required, it will put power to the rear wheels to ensure maximum traction. However, if pushed hard you can really notice the shift in ratio. its a noticeable change in noise and is actually quite brutal. Which can actually cause more instability....as its not "predicatable". I got caught out a few times on wet roundabouts and exiting corners....you stick the power down, and you can feel the car start to slide and then *BANG*...the haldex changes power delivery and the car snaps back...it certainly gives the handling "character".
You can install the Haldex performance controller which changes the ratio and also the levels of tolerance in which the 4wd system will operate. This makes the car more predictable and therefore can push it harder. A similar system is used on the R8 but with a maximum of 30% of the power to the front, as its setup differently. But essentially its the same technology.
I have to be honest, and say I've pushed my GTi and actually think in most conditions and driving speeds, its pretty comparable to my TT. I actually think to be honest, the steering is sharper and more precise than my TT. (You can see I'm a Gti convert).
The R32 has the same running gear as the TT, but has slightly different ARB's which aid stability. And that is often a good mod if you want to push the envelope of the Quattro performance.
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....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.
Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.
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Does the haldex gen 2 controller unit fix the issue of the "autonymous" haldex?
Can't you fix it as, say a 40-60 front to rear power split using the controller?
Nope. A Haldex based system, or any system which uses a clutch, rather than a diff can not apportion more than 50% of the drive to the axle which it is controlling. So at the very best, a Haldex can achieve 50:50 front to rear. Which is why the Haldex can never be better than a Torsen. :smug:
Furthermore, from what I gather, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the aftermarket Haldex controllers simply apply more clutch pressure at all times - with some permanently locking the Haldex. Whilst this may give you an exact 50:50 at all times - the "all-times" bit then becomes a problem, because transmission "wind-up" (a very well-known four wheel drive issue) can occur between front and rear axles. I've actually witnessd someone with a nasty leg brake when jacking up a "wound-up" 4wd vehicle to relase the wind up - not good! :cry:
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....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.
Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.
but old TT had an old Golf platform, no?
Let somebody comapre GTI to the new TT, that'll be interesting.
Even more interesting - TTS compared to GTI/E30.
Can't someone get a test drive of TTS already? Maybe Teutonic Tamer can go in his RS4 and test drive?
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hurdys had a spin in the TTS. Ask him and im sure he will supply! :smiley:
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hurdys had a spin in the TTS. Ask him and im sure he will supply! :smiley:
Oh?
Hurdy, I made a cuppa tea and planted myself infront of my laptop, waiting for the great story telling to begin.
But, please, be objective.
OK, you may start... now!
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....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.
Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.
I may have a jaded view of the TT due to money I lost on it, but as for the drivability I can compare the two. I certainly drive my cars "spiritedly" and like to see its limits/my limits. The first thing I noticed was the steering. On the TT, I felt the steering was a little delayed and found you over/under steered a lot. The Gti is, to use a term "Point and Shoot". You can turn easily into the Apex, hit it and get the power down. You get good feedback through the wheel which makes you feel more engaged with the drive.
I also didn't like the DSG in the TT...to be honest...it really f**ked me off which added to the reason I wanted to get rid. I felt it was really jerky and awful. It also took forever when you booted it to take off...I lost many a race as a result of this delay!
When you compare the two packages...yes...perhaps to a non "driver" the TT looks more sporty, prestigous. Everyone I know loved going in the TT, and thought it looked great. I perhaps thought that this made it a little ostentatious. But as a driving package...the GTi wins on numerous counts.
The only thing I miss, is the V6 roar and rumble. Its something every red blooded male wants in a car. Perhaps, if you think about it...the R32 is perhaps the best package. It combines family car practicality and comfort but retains its sporting pedigree. With that great 3.2 V6 and great running gear.
I'll also admit that I wanted a GTi rather than a TT, but the missus talked me out it. She said that Mark 5 GTI's look like Polo's and are chavvy. Having had mine for 3 months ish she is now a convert and admits she was wrong. Another example of the Mk5 GTi's alluring personality!
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I had the 3.2 DSG TT (Old model) and must admit it handled like a go cart....I was also a member of the TT owners club which came with loads of useful mods and hints and tips, just like this place.
Yeah, they are a good bunch in the TTOC - a really helpful and friendly forum - even for someone who never owned a TT! :cool:
The Haldex is, as mentioned, not "technically" a 4 wheel drive. As its monitors grip vs rpm vs wheel speed and ensures power is delivered to the four wheels correctly.
Sort of. The Haldex cannot alter the drive to the permanently driven front wheels. These are always driven, irrespective of the actual grip they can handle. :nerd:
If required, it will put power to the rear wheels to ensure maximum traction.
Fully agree. But it is this very bit where some peeps get confused. Whilst the Haldex clutch may be able to lock at 100% clamping force, the actual torque distribution remains at exactly 50:50. :wink: :smiley:
However, if pushed hard you can really notice the shift in ratio. its a noticeable change in noise and is actually quite brutal. Which can actually cause more instability....as its not "predicatable". I got caught out a few times on wet roundabouts and exiting corners....you stick the power down, and you can feel the car start to slide and then *BANG*...the haldex changes power delivery and the car snaps back...it certainly gives the handling "character".
Mirrors my own experiences. And certainly feels very rough and unrefined when compared to a Torsen 4wd. Whilst owners may be able to get used to the quirkiness of the Haldex handling, particularly if they don't own any other 4wd cars, for me, it was just too much of a compromise. I am absolutely certain that had I have not gone for the GTI, and instead went for the R32 instead, I'd have been forever whinging about it, especially when comparing it back-to-back with my RS4. :smiley:
You can install the Haldex performance controller which changes the ratio and also the levels of tolerance in which the 4wd system will operate. This makes the car more predictable and therefore can push it harder.
Never experienced the HPC, but many who use it seem to think it is an agreeable solution.
A similar system is used on the R8 but with a maximum of 30% of the power to the front, as its setup differently. But essentially its the same technology.
Yes, agreed. But the crucial difference between the R8 and the R32/S3/TTq is that the R8 is a predominantly rear-wheel drive car, and only sends drive to the fronts when needed. The R32/S3/TTq are the opposite, being primarily a front-wheel drive car, and dumping drive to the rear when the fronts protest. This "opposite" approach from the Audi R8 is what makes it such a potent car.
The Bugatti Veyron is another example of utilising Haldex, but the Veyron needs to use two Haldex units, which work in unison. Two are required due to the limitations in torque handling, not dissimilar to the DSG clutch limitations.
I have to be honest, and say I've pushed my GTi and actually think in most conditions and driving speeds, its pretty comparable to my TT. I actually think to be honest, the steering is sharper and more precise than my TT. (You can see I'm a Gti convert).
Was your TT the orginal 8N model, or the latest 8J model? And I do agree with the GTI having very sharp steering, but tyres play a crucial part in steering feedback and accuracy. :wink:
The R32 has the same running gear as the TT, but has slightly different ARB's which aid stability. And that is often a good mod if you want to push the envelope of the Quattro performance.
Don't forget that the Golf, in all guises it quite a bit taller than the low-slung TT - which will affect the height of the centre of gravity! :nerd:
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....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.
Robin, are you able to post some before and after corner speeds. Maybe some 2nd "runs" around a local roundabout! :wink:
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....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.
Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.
but old TT had an old Golf platform, no?
Yup, the original typ 8N TT had the same A4/PQ34 platform as the Mk4 Golf, the original Å koda Octavia (though this had stretched overhangs), and the original typ 1M Seat Leon. One important thing to remember regarding the PQ34 platform cars is the different rear suspensions. On the front-wheel drive only cars, they simply had a torsion beam semi-independent rear suspension, whereas on the 4wd models, they had the fully independent multi link rear end.
The latest typ 8J TT shares the Golf5's PQ35 platform, and all models have multi-link rear end.
Let somebody comapre GTI to the new TT, that'll be interesting.
Even more interesting - TTS compared to GTI/E30.
For it to be a true comparison, the GTI and Ed30 should only really be compared with a non-quattro 2.0TFSI TT.
The TTS is best compared with the S3 or R32.
Can't someone get a test drive of TTS already? Maybe Teutonic Tamer can go in his RS4 and test drive?
They are probably getting a bit pi$$ed off with me blagging the keys to their motors - recently the Q7 3.0TDI, along with the latest RS6 Avant - awesome car, and it does handle too!
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The latest typ 8J TT shares the Golf5's PQ35 platform, and all models have multi-link rear end.
Interesting, I thought new TT had a platform of its own, different from that in Golf 5.
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They are probably getting a bit pi$$ed off with me blagging the keys to their motors - recently the Q7 3.0TDI, along with the latest RS6 Avant - awesome car, and it does handle too!
Were I to have the money, I'd forget about 335i and have gone for RS6 sedan. Awesome looking cars these RS6!
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The latest typ 8J TT shares the Golf5's PQ35 platform, and all models have multi-link rear end.
Interesting, I thought new TT had a platform of its own, different from that in Golf 5.
Nope. All VAG cars share platforms. Even the latest Passat shares the Golf 5 platform, but just has extended overhangs, and I think a tweaked B to C pillar length.
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Just getting back to the twitch of the Haldex... the first couple of times I really pushed my car the twitch nearly put me in a ditch! but as you learn to drive it properly it definately becomes less apparent. With the ESP OFF you can hardly notice it there at all..
If you look through most of the R32 reviews you will find that all the professional drivers that have driven the R32 say its a fantastic car with awsome handling capabilities... I guess you just have to have the skill to get the most out of it.
I know it has been refered to on numerous occasions but the fact that it was faster round the TG track is just one piece of evidence highlighting this. Esp as we know that the ED30 is definately no slouch and has a better power/weight ratio that the R32. Again evidence that the haldex system works and works very well... if you know how to use it! imo :smiley:
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They are probably getting a bit pi$$ed off with me blagging the keys to their motors - recently the Q7 3.0TDI, along with the latest RS6 Avant - awesome car, and it does handle too!
Were I to have the money, I'd forget about 335i and have gone for RS6 sedan. Awesome looking cars these RS6!
You gotta stay in the VAG family. Afterall, the BMW 3 series is just a German's Ford Mondeo! :sick:
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Just getting back to the twitch of the Haldex... the first couple of times I really pushed my car the twitch nearly put me in a ditch! but as you learn to drive it properly it definately becomes less apparent. With the ESP OFF you can hardly notice it there at all..
I don't doubt you there. :wink: :smiley:
If you look through most of the R32 reviews you will find that all the professional drivers that have driven the R32 say its a fantastic car with awsome handling capabilities... I guess you just have to have the skill to get the most out of it.
But that is not the real crux of the issue. Not every R32 or Haldex owner will have the skill of the so-called "professional drivers". Many will just be your average joe public, who for 95% of the time, drives like "miss daisy". Then when they do occasionally venture into the limits of handling, they may get their arse bitten!
I know it has been refered to on numerous occasions but the fact that it was faster round the TG track is just one piece of evidence highlighting this. Esp as we know that the ED30 is definately no slouch and has a better power/weight ratio that the R32. Again evidence that the haldex system works and works very well... if you know how to use it! imo :smiley:
Again, not a fair and real world comparison. The TG test track is absolutely massive - hugely wide with massive run-off areas, with no armco, hedges, dry-stone walls, ditches, telegraph poles, bus stops, etc. By using all those masses of reserves to play with, you can make cars do things which would be utterly impossible on normal roads. A much better comparison for a circuit would be somewhere like Cadwell Park, which is fairly narrow, or the IoM mountain course, which uses real every-day roads. And I think in this much truer environment which I am suggesting - is where the limitations of Haldex are shown! :wink: :smiley:
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Some fair points there TT.... But the idea of the TG track would be to stay on the racing line.. as you would in any car.
But you can only judge a car by what you put in front of it. IMO your much more likely to understeer into a hedge in a FWD than you are a Hadlex operated AWD... but if your not an experienced driver then you could probably do it in anything as opposed to the cars we are talking about.
Either way.. i find that if your rash with the haldex it will kick out. Know what your doing and planned out before you even get to a corner and it will behave exactly how you want it to and fly out if a corner like its on rails.
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hurdys had a spin in the TTS. Ask him and im sure he will supply! :smiley:
Oh?
Hurdy, I made a cuppa tea and planted myself infront of my laptop, waiting for the great story telling to begin.
But, please, be objective.
OK, you may start... now!
I bet your cuppa tea is cold now Peskarik :wink:
The TTS is a very good looking car in coupe guise. Only had a brief play in one, but enough to know that at nearly £40k with options that it isn't worth it. Compared with the S3 it feels more agile and planted on the road. It isn't necessarily fast, but that feeling may come from the fact it is well sorted. With a remap it would be a very interesting piece of machinery. I couldn't get the back end to move much as it was dry - and I did try. :cool:
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Im not sure what it is about the TTS but every time I see one I am not drawn to looking at it. Its almost like if you have seen one you have seen them all. Unlike a Golf where you like to look at each and every one as they are quite individual.
I cant quite pin it but looking at a TT when a guy is driving almost feels gay... Not that I would know what it feels like of course :rolleyes: :wink:
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hurdys had a spin in the TTS. Ask him and im sure he will supply! :smiley:
Oh?
Hurdy, I made a cuppa tea and planted myself infront of my laptop, waiting for the great story telling to begin.
But, please, be objective.
OK, you may start... now!
I bet your cuppa tea is cold now Peskarik :wink:
The TTS is a very good looking car in coupe guise. Only had a brief play in one, but enough to know that at nearly £40k with options that it isn't worth it. Compared with the S3 it feels more agile and planted on the road. It isn't necessarily fast, but that feeling may come from the fact it is well sorted. With a remap it would be a very interesting piece of machinery. I couldn't get the back end to move much as it was dry - and I did try. :cool:
yeah, it is ice tea now, but I'm cool with that, too. :smiley:
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You gotta stay in the VAG family. Afterall, the BMW 3 series is just a German's Ford Mondeo! :sick:
I am not attracted to A5/S5, so for me there is no alternative to 335i Coupe in VAG family.
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I think the A5 is an awful design, have you seen the size of the wing mirrors, they're huuuuuge!
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I think the A5 is an awful design, have you seen the size of the wing mirrors, they're huuuuuge!
I will second that! The a5 does absolutely nothing for me... like I am sure I have said on a previous post, if you were to take a4 squash it and pull it a little, you would end up with a5. Designers were obviously on holiday!
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Some fair points there TT.... But the idea of the TG track would be to stay on the racing line.. as you would in any car.
Oh, I fully agree. However, on the TG track, if you do get it wrong, you merely go from a car to a lawn mower. :tongue: Or if you are at Snetterton, when you go off at the end of the start-finsh straight, you end up prematurely harvesting brussels sprouts. Maybe thats where the DSG gets its "farts" from! :laugh: However, on a normal road, losing control can have very nasty outcomes. :embarassed:
But you can only judge a car by what you put in front of it. IMO your much more likely to understeer into a hedge in a FWD than you are a Hadlex operated AWD... but if your not an experienced driver then you could probably do it in anything as opposed to the cars we are talking about.
Sort of agree, sort of don't. Yes, any car can understeer, and this includes both front wheel drive, and rear wheel drive cars (even BMWs) - but understeer is usually initiated by some bad or incorrect driving. Indeed, I managed to get my RS to understeer when I was driving very tired, but "pressing on", and a tight bend caught me out (no damage done - well none to the car, just the boxer shorts :grin:). However, once understeer has started, then other factors come in to play. The weight of the engine is one such factor, and the VR6 lump in the R32 is quite a bit heavier than the GTI 4-pot. Give a GTI or Ed30, and an R32 to "mr average", and the R32 is well known to understeer more easily (due to the engine weight), and (again, mr average driving), the R32 understeer will be much harder to control - compared to a GTI or Ed30.
I absolutely agree with you, though - if you are a "talented" ("experienced" is probably the wrong word, but I know what you are saying) driver, who knows how to fully use the Haldex potential, then you can "dial out" understeer on the R32. :smiley:
Either way.. i find that if your rash with the haldex it will kick out. Know what your doing and planned out before you even get to a corner and it will behave exactly how you want it to and fly out if a corner like its on rails.
Exactly. :smiley:
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I think the A5 is an awful design, have you seen the size of the wing mirrors, they're huuuuuge!
I will second that! The a5 does absolutely nothing for me... like I am sure I have said on a previous post, if you were to take a4 squash it and pull it a little, you would end up with a5. Designers were obviously on holiday!
But the A5, like all "coupes" are aimed at a specific market - and the fundamental "essence" of a coupe is all about styling. And just like Heinz fart pellets baked beans or HP baked beans - we all have different tastes and likes. I actually don't mind the A5, but would never buy one, nor any coupe, becuase for a number of reasons, coupes do nowt for me.