Author Topic: VeeDub vs FourRings....  (Read 14740 times)

Peskarik

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #70 on: 09 September 2008, 17:51 »
....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.

Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.

 but old TT had an old Golf platform, no?

Let somebody comapre GTI to the new TT, that'll be interesting.
Even more interesting - TTS compared to GTI/E30.

Can't someone get a test drive of TTS already? Maybe Teutonic Tamer can go in his RS4 and test drive?

Offline Saint Steve

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #71 on: 09 September 2008, 17:55 »
hurdys had a spin in the TTS. Ask him and im sure he will supply!  :smiley:


Peskarik

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #72 on: 09 September 2008, 17:57 »
hurdys had a spin in the TTS. Ask him and im sure he will supply!  :smiley:

Oh?

Hurdy, I made a cuppa tea and planted myself infront of my laptop, waiting for the great story telling to begin.
But, please, be objective.

OK, you may start... now!

Offline Wh|t3R@bb|t

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #73 on: 09 September 2008, 18:00 »
....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.

Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.

I may have a jaded view of the TT due to money I lost on it, but as for the drivability I can compare the two.  I certainly drive my cars "spiritedly" and like to see its limits/my limits.  The first thing I noticed was the steering.  On the TT, I felt the steering was a little delayed and found you over/under steered a lot.  The Gti is, to use a term "Point and Shoot". You can turn easily into the Apex, hit it and get the power down.  You get good feedback through the wheel which makes you feel more engaged with the drive.

I also didn't like the DSG in the TT...to be honest...it really f**ked me off which added to the reason I wanted to get rid.  I felt it was really jerky and awful.  It also took forever when you booted it to take off...I lost many a race as a result of this delay!

When you compare the two packages...yes...perhaps to a non "driver" the TT looks more sporty, prestigous.  Everyone I know loved going in the TT, and thought it looked great.  I perhaps thought that this made it a little ostentatious.  But as a driving package...the GTi wins on numerous counts.

The only thing I miss, is the V6 roar and rumble.   Its something every red blooded male wants in a car.  Perhaps, if you think about it...the R32 is perhaps the best package.  It combines family car practicality and comfort but retains its sporting pedigree.  With that great 3.2 V6 and great running gear.

I'll also admit that I wanted a GTi rather than a TT, but the missus talked me out it.  She said that Mark 5 GTI's look like Polo's and are chavvy.  Having had mine for 3 months ish she is now a convert and admits she was wrong.  Another example of the Mk5 GTi's alluring personality!

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #74 on: 09 September 2008, 18:27 »
I had the 3.2 DSG TT (Old model) and must admit it handled like a go cart....I was also a member of the TT owners club which came with loads of useful mods and hints and tips, just like this place.

Yeah, they are a good bunch in the TTOC - a really helpful and friendly forum - even for someone who never owned a TT!  :cool:

The Haldex is, as mentioned, not "technically" a 4 wheel drive.  As its monitors grip vs rpm vs wheel speed and ensures power is delivered to the four wheels correctly.

Sort of.  The Haldex cannot alter the drive to the permanently driven front wheels.  These are always driven, irrespective of the actual grip they can handle.  :nerd:

If required, it will put power to the rear wheels to ensure maximum traction.

Fully agree.  But it is this very bit where some peeps get confused.  Whilst the Haldex clutch may be able to lock at 100% clamping force, the actual torque distribution remains at exactly 50:50.  :wink:  :smiley:

However, if pushed hard you can really notice the shift in ratio.  its a noticeable change in noise and is actually quite brutal.  Which can actually cause more instability....as its not "predicatable".  I got caught out a few times on wet roundabouts and exiting corners....you stick the power down, and you can feel the car start to slide and then *BANG*...the haldex changes power delivery and the car snaps back...it certainly gives the handling "character".

Mirrors my own experiences.  And certainly feels very rough and unrefined when compared to a Torsen 4wd.  Whilst owners may be able to get used to the quirkiness of the Haldex handling, particularly if they don't own any other 4wd cars, for me, it was just too much of a compromise.  I am absolutely certain that had I have not gone for the GTI, and instead went for the R32 instead, I'd have been forever whinging about it, especially when comparing it back-to-back with my RS4.  :smiley:

You can install the Haldex performance controller which changes the ratio and also the levels of tolerance in which the 4wd system will operate.  This makes the car more predictable and therefore can push it harder.

Never experienced the HPC, but many who use it seem to think it is an agreeable solution.

A similar system is used on the R8 but with a maximum of 30% of the power to the front, as its setup differently.  But essentially its the same technology.

Yes, agreed.  But the crucial difference between the R8 and the R32/S3/TTq is that the R8 is a predominantly rear-wheel drive car, and only sends drive to the fronts when needed.  The R32/S3/TTq are the opposite, being primarily a front-wheel drive car, and dumping drive to the rear when the fronts protest.  This "opposite" approach from the Audi R8 is what makes it such a potent car.

The Bugatti Veyron is another example of utilising Haldex, but the Veyron needs to use two Haldex units, which work in unison.  Two are required due to the limitations in torque handling, not dissimilar to the DSG clutch limitations.

I have to be honest, and say I've pushed my GTi and actually think in most conditions and driving speeds, its pretty comparable to my TT.  I actually think to be honest, the steering is sharper and more precise than my TT. (You can see I'm a Gti convert).

Was your TT the orginal 8N model, or the latest 8J model?  And I do agree with the GTI having very sharp steering, but tyres play a crucial part in steering feedback and accuracy.  :wink:

The R32 has the same running gear as the TT, but has slightly different ARB's which aid stability.  And that is often a good mod if you want to push the envelope of the Quattro performance.

Don't forget that the Golf, in all guises it quite a bit taller than the low-slung TT - which will affect the height of the centre of gravity!  :nerd:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #75 on: 09 September 2008, 18:29 »
....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.

Robin, are you able to post some before and after corner speeds.  Maybe some 2nd "runs" around a local roundabout!  :wink:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #76 on: 09 September 2008, 18:42 »
....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.

Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.

 but old TT had an old Golf platform, no?

Yup, the original typ 8N TT had the same A4/PQ34 platform as the Mk4 Golf, the original Å koda Octavia (though this had stretched overhangs), and the original typ 1M Seat Leon.  One important thing to remember regarding the PQ34 platform cars is the different rear suspensions.  On the front-wheel drive only cars, they simply had a torsion beam semi-independent rear suspension, whereas on the 4wd models, they had the fully independent multi link rear end.

The latest typ 8J TT shares the Golf5's PQ35 platform, and all models have multi-link rear end.

Let somebody comapre GTI to the new TT, that'll be interesting.
Even more interesting - TTS compared to GTI/E30.

For it to be a true comparison, the GTI and Ed30 should only really be compared with a non-quattro 2.0TFSI TT.

The TTS is best compared with the S3 or R32.

Can't someone get a test drive of TTS already? Maybe Teutonic Tamer can go in his RS4 and test drive?

They are probably getting a bit pi$$ed off with me blagging the keys to their motors - recently the Q7 3.0TDI, along with the latest RS6 Avant - awesome car, and it does handle too!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Peskarik

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #77 on: 09 September 2008, 18:58 »



The latest typ 8J TT shares the Golf5's PQ35 platform, and all models have multi-link rear end.



Interesting, I thought new TT had a platform of its own, different from that in Golf 5.

Peskarik

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #78 on: 09 September 2008, 19:00 »


They are probably getting a bit pi$$ed off with me blagging the keys to their motors - recently the Q7 3.0TDI, along with the latest RS6 Avant - awesome car, and it does handle too!

Were I to have the money, I'd forget about 335i and have gone for RS6 sedan. Awesome looking cars these RS6!

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #79 on: 09 September 2008, 19:11 »



The latest typ 8J TT shares the Golf5's PQ35 platform, and all models have multi-link rear end.



Interesting, I thought new TT had a platform of its own, different from that in Golf 5.

Nope.  All VAG cars share platforms.  Even the latest Passat shares the Golf 5 platform, but just has extended overhangs, and I think a tweaked B to C pillar length.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo