Author Topic: VeeDub vs FourRings....  (Read 14696 times)

Offline RedRobin

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #60 on: 09 September 2008, 15:03 »
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!

In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control)  :sick:

....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #61 on: 09 September 2008, 15:28 »
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!

In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control)  :sick:

....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.

But that is the classic "issue" of Haldex - it isn't smooth and "transition-free" like other permanent four wheel drive systems such as Torsen.  And you can be sure they'll be feeling its effects inside the car.  I suppose if you don't mind it, and maybe have come from an Evo or similar, then it will feel normal - but it aint the most efficient way!  :wink:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

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Offline luca

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #62 on: 09 September 2008, 15:45 »
The 5cyl engine noise is to die for especially audi quattro, s2, rs2 and now the ttrs. I can easily say that is the best sounding engine audi have ever produced. I know not many people would agree but 5cyl is just sounds sooooooooo :cool:

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Offline Stiggy

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #63 on: 09 September 2008, 16:00 »
I had a look at the s3 before i got the gti - have to agree, the interior was alot better compared to the gti's, but at the time the car didn't come as a 5door, didn't have dsg and cost a lot more to purchase and maintain once bought.  Now that the 5 door is out, it would be a more difficult decision to make if i had the choice - i'd still go for the gti though as imo it looks much better than the s3 in 5 door guise -the sportback s3 looks a little like an estate.  If only the s3 interior could be transferred to the gti :rolleyes:  Does the sportback s3 really have dsg as an option?

As for the audi tt, i see a tts with a lady driver everyday on the way to work coming in the opposite direction - the little i do get to see it i don't think it has that much presence on the road when compared to a normal tt.
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!

In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control)  :sick:

....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.

But that is the classic "issue" of Haldex - it isn't smooth and "transition-free" like other permanent four wheel drive systems such as Torsen.  And you can be sure they'll be feeling its effects inside the car.  I suppose if you don't mind it, and maybe have come from an Evo or similar, then it will feel normal - but it aint the most efficient way!  :wink:

Why would they fit the haldex system over the quattro for the flagship tt?  That 5cyl beast sounds very :drool:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #64 on: 09 September 2008, 16:26 »
I had a look at the s3 before i got the gti - have to agree, the interior was alot better compared to the gti's, but at the time the car didn't come as a 5door, didn't have dsg and cost a lot more to purchase and maintain once bought.  Now that the 5 door is out, it would be a more difficult decision to make if i had the choice - i'd still go for the gti though as imo it looks much better than the s3 in 5 door guise -the sportback s3 looks a little like an estate.  If only the s3 interior could be transferred to the gti :rolleyes:  

Does the sportback s3 really have dsg as an option?

....3 years ago I did exactly the same as you describe - Seriously considered the S3/A3 Sportback. The Sportback looks a lot like an estate - I particularly noticed that the other day.

So far, the 2009 S3 Sportback hasn't got S-tronic (DSG) as an option but time will tell. I know this from Audi UK.

This is what I'm wearing today : -


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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #65 on: 09 September 2008, 16:56 »
I
How about this Audi TT RS 5-cyl engine in a RS3!? : -
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1659866373?bclid=1540979064&bctid=1664437097 <<<< ENJOY THE SOUND OF THIS!!

In the second frame, you can hear the Haldex on the rear end working overtime (on-off-on-off - etc, just like traction control)  :sick:

....Why is that a problem? The car seems to cope well with what it's being asked to do. Sounds particularly fruity when back on public road in the final sequence.

But that is the classic "issue" of Haldex - it isn't smooth and "transition-free" like other permanent four wheel drive systems such as Torsen.  And you can be sure they'll be feeling its effects inside the car.  I suppose if you don't mind it, and maybe have come from an Evo or similar, then it will feel normal - but it aint the most efficient way!  :wink:

Why would they fit the haldex system over the quattro for the flagship tt?

A couple of points - "quattro" is merely a trademark name which Audi AG use to describe all their cars with four wheel drive (and NOT "all" wheel drive which the yanks like using) systems, irrespective of the method of 4wd.  The actual "mechanics" of which system is used is simply down to engine orientation.  Cars with longitudinal (north-south) aligned engines use a Torsen centre diff - which is a true, permanent, always-on 4wd system.  Cars with transverse engines, like in the Golf or the Audi A3/S3 can only use an Haldex Traction clutch.  The Haldex is NOT a diff, and can best be described as an "autonomous, on-demand" part-time 4wd system.  Most of the time, a Haldex car operates in just front wheel drive or 2wd mode.

Some interested Haldex reading: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=88976
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Hurdy

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #66 on: 09 September 2008, 17:22 »
Does the haldex gen 2 controller unit fix the issue of the "autonymous" haldex?

Can't you fix it as, say a 40-60 front to rear power split using the controller?
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Offline Wh|t3R@bb|t

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #67 on: 09 September 2008, 17:33 »
I had the 3.2 DSG TT (Old model) and must admit it handled like a go cart....I was also a member of the TT owners club which came with loads of useful mods and hints and tips, just like this place.

The Haldex is, as mentioned, not "technically" a 4 wheel drive.  As its monitors grip vs rpm vs wheel speed and ensures power is delivered to the four wheels correctly.  If required, it will put power to the rear wheels to ensure maximum traction.  However, if pushed hard you can really notice the shift in ratio.  its a noticeable change in noise and is actually quite brutal.  Which can actually cause more instability....as its not "predicatable".  I got caught out a few times on wet roundabouts and exiting corners....you stick the power down, and you can feel the car start to slide and then *BANG*...the haldex changes power delivery and the car snaps back...it certainly gives the handling "character".

You can install the Haldex performance controller which changes the ratio and also the levels of tolerance in which the 4wd system will operate.  This makes the car more predictable and therefore can push it harder.   A similar system is used on the R8 but with a maximum of 30% of the power to the front, as its setup differently.  But essentially its the same technology.

I have to be honest, and say I've pushed my GTi and actually think in most conditions and driving speeds, its pretty comparable to my TT.  I actually think to be honest, the steering is sharper and more precise than my TT. (You can see I'm a Gti convert).

The R32 has the same running gear as the TT, but has slightly different ARB's which aid stability.  And that is often a good mod if you want to push the envelope of the Quattro performance.

Offline RedRobin

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #68 on: 09 September 2008, 17:43 »
....Not directly comparable I know, but all this discussion about quattro and Haldex and traction, is increasing my excitement about the Quaife ATB diff being installed on my GTI next week. I really think it's going to contribute some positives to FWD.

Very interesting to hear comparisons between the 3.2 TT and the GTI - It shows just how good the Mk5 GTI is.
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: VeeDub vs FourRings....
« Reply #69 on: 09 September 2008, 17:51 »
Does the haldex gen 2 controller unit fix the issue of the "autonymous" haldex?

Can't you fix it as, say a 40-60 front to rear power split using the controller?

Nope.  A Haldex based system, or any system which uses a clutch, rather than a diff can not apportion more than 50% of the drive to the axle which it is controlling.  So at the very best, a Haldex can achieve 50:50 front to rear.  Which is why the Haldex can never be better than a Torsen.  :smug:

Furthermore, from what I gather, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the aftermarket Haldex controllers simply apply more clutch pressure at all times - with some permanently locking the Haldex.  Whilst this may give you an exact 50:50 at all times - the "all-times" bit then becomes a problem, because transmission "wind-up" (a very well-known four wheel drive issue) can occur between front and rear axles.  I've actually witnessd someone with a nasty leg brake when jacking up a "wound-up" 4wd vehicle to relase the wind up - not good!  :cry:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo