missus' car? re-treads surely.. :grin:
RR, interesting, and valuble reply - thanks. :smiley:[/u]
This random snatching you mention - is it occuring from just one axle? And have you tried temporarilly swapping fronts and rears to see if it alters this trait.
Maybe the mix of directionals and asymmetrics is upsetting the balance - however, I did once run a car like that, with the original Mich Pilot Sport (directionals) on the front, and Mich Pilot Exalto PE2s (asymmet) on the rear - and didn't notice anything unusual.
You have confused me with the "Goodyear Dunlop techsupport" - was that a typo?
....T_T -
- Yes, it feels as if from front axle - Righthand front wheel for lefthand bend and vica-versa.
- Goodyear also suggested swapping fronts/backs but I have decided not to mend it yet while it appears to have sorted itself out. If it ain't broke, don't mend it!
- Yes, Goodyear reckon it's the mix of tyre construction which is fooling the ESP.
- "Goodyear Dunlop Tyres UK" are one company. I have written correspondence from them and I think the web site confirms this too(?).
TT i would go with the F1's! I would choose them everytime. And well.... if you dont like them then atleast you have had the experience of having them. I think I will give mine some real pain and report back how they cope :evil:
Although I have no experience of the PS2s, I have just fitted a full set of F1 Assym's to the Golf. With ESP on I get this "snatching" that RR speaks about, and also chronic understeer around corners. I've heard that the F1's need about 6 weeks to wear in properly, and as I haven't done too many miles on them yet, I'm putting this down to that.
HTH.
Incidentally, following on from all this "high praise" of Goodyears, and the apparent lack of consistent enthusiasm for Michelins - I pose another question to ponder over.
If these Goodyear GSD3s and Goodyear Asymmetrics are so good - why do they not have any OEM approvals?
Out of interest, can you digress further about the bias shown against the Michelins in that test?
Not saying I disagree or owt, just interested :smiley:
I'm getting some gsd3s fitted as we speak, albeit not to a mk5 :grin: , but I've only heard good things about them, and they look the business :smiley:
OK, thanks for the update. I would still be tempted to swap the wheels/tyres front and rear though, and see if there is any change. Maybe there is an inherent mis-match problem with the Goodyears, and Goodyear need to be advised if so. I know Michelin are absolutely excellent with their advisories regarding mixing tyres. Who knows . . . maybe Goodyear already know, and are keeping zipped, in a similar fashion to Renault with Clio bonnets, or Vauxhall with Vectra handbrakes. Afterall, it would seem to be a logical "upgrade" or progression from the discontinued Goodyear directionals to their latest asymmetrics . . .
Do peeps really go on "looks" over actual performance! :shocked:
Although I have no experience of the PS2s, I have just fitted a full set of F1 Assym's to the Golf. With ESP on I get this "snatching" that RR speaks about, and also chronic understeer around corners. I've heard that the F1's need about 6 weeks to wear in properly, and as I haven't done too many miles on them yet, I'm putting this down to that.
HTH.
....So you're getting the 'snatching' problem with all four tyres fitted!! - Not good! Surely the "six weeks" will depend on mileage.
Although I have no experience of the PS2s, I have just fitted a full set of F1 Assym's to the Golf. With ESP on I get this "snatching" that RR speaks about, and also chronic understeer around corners.
I've heard that the F1's need about 6 weeks to wear in properly, and as I haven't done too many miles on them yet, I'm putting this down to that.
Incidentally, following on from all this "high praise" of Goodyears, and the apparent lack of consistent enthusiasm for Michelins - I pose another question to ponder over.
If these Goodyear GSD3s and Goodyear Asymmetrics are so good - why do they not have any OEM approvals?
....Cost?
OK, thanks for the update. I would still be tempted to swap the wheels/tyres front and rear though, and see if there is any change. Maybe there is an inherent mis-match problem with the Goodyears, and Goodyear need to be advised if so. I know Michelin are absolutely excellent with their advisories regarding mixing tyres. Who knows . . . maybe Goodyear already know, and are keeping zipped, in a similar fashion to Renault with Clio bonnets, or Vauxhall with Vectra handbrakes. Afterall, it would seem to be a logical "upgrade" or progression from the discontinued Goodyear directionals to their latest asymmetrics . . .
....They have been advised - I've been talking with them for the last couple of weeks about my 'snatching' issue.
I'll only swap if the issue reappears - Otherwise no need. I'm at VW Racing soon anyway, and we'll see what they think driving my car.
Do peeps really go on "looks" over actual performance! :shocked:
....I was chatting to Goodyear about that very question and they are surprised by it but the fact is that many do choose on "looks"!! :rolleyes:
Although I have no experience of the PS2s, I have just fitted a full set of F1 Assym's to the Golf. With ESP on I get this "snatching" that RR speaks about, and also chronic understeer around corners. I've heard that the F1's need about 6 weeks to wear in properly, and as I haven't done too many miles on them yet, I'm putting this down to that.
HTH.
....So you're getting the 'snatching' problem with all four tyres fitted!! - Not good! Surely the "six weeks" will depend on mileage.
Yes, very true regarding the six week thing. By the way - I think I read this in EVO, where they had the R32 as their long test car and he said that the car was diabolical for the first month and a half, then the tyres started to become amazing? If anyone else saw this article, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Unfortunately I haven't driven the car as much as I have wanted, due to my other car being more "suited" to the recent great weather spell!! I really hope the snatching cures itself with more milage. It's strange though - it's not so apparent in the corners (although still there), but more so on the straights under hard acceleration it just snatches side to side. But the huge understeer is my main gripe. I still have faith that they will improve - so many people have said great things about them.
Incidentally, following on from all this "high praise" of Goodyears, and the apparent lack of consistent enthusiasm for Michelins - I pose another question to ponder over.
If these Goodyear GSD3s and Goodyear Asymmetrics are so good - why do they not have any OEM approvals?
....Cost?
Cost would have sod-all difference. Michelin and Conti are the most expensive tyres on both the retail and wholesale UK and EU markets. Whereas the Jap and far eastern tyres have the cheapest (by a huge margin) wholesale market price - which explains why so many tyre companies only supply stuff like Yokohama, Khumo and the like - they make massive profits very easily from them, compared to more meagre profits from say Michelin.
And to take Porsche as a specific example - they are seen as an out-and-out performance car manufacturer, certainly without any compromises for passenger comfort, quietness, longevity, price, etc which more mainstream manufacturers consider from tyres. If these Goodyears were on a par with Michelin PS2 or ContiSportContact2/3, then Porsche would OEM fit them. Afterall, Porsche do have quite a large presence in the US, where the Yanks like to be loyal to their own country! :smug:
Incidentally, following on from all this "high praise" of Goodyears, and the apparent lack of consistent enthusiasm for Michelins - I pose another question to ponder over.
If these Goodyear GSD3s and Goodyear Asymmetrics are so good - why do they not have any OEM approvals?
....Cost?
Cost would have sod-all difference. Michelin and Conti are the most expensive tyres on both the retail and wholesale UK and EU markets. Whereas the Jap and far eastern tyres have the cheapest (by a huge margin) wholesale market price - which explains why so many tyre companies only supply stuff like Yokohama, Khumo and the like - they make massive profits very easily from them, compared to more meagre profits from say Michelin.
And to take Porsche as a specific example - they are seen as an out-and-out performance car manufacturer, certainly without any compromises for passenger comfort, quietness, longevity, price, etc which more mainstream manufacturers consider from tyres. If these Goodyears were on a par with Michelin PS2 or ContiSportContact2/3, then Porsche would OEM fit them. Afterall, Porsche do have quite a large presence in the US, where the Yanks like to be loyal to their own country! :smug:
I agree - when looking for tyres I noticed that Goodyears were significantly cheaper than PE2's and PS2's.
I agree - it is borderline dangerous that they seem to require such a lengthy wearing in period, however there is nothing but praise for them once this period is over.
Incidentally, following on from all this "high praise" of Goodyears, and the apparent lack of consistent enthusiasm for Michelins - I pose another question to ponder over.
If these Goodyear GSD3s and Goodyear Asymmetrics are so good - why do they not have any OEM approvals?
....Cost?
Cost would have sod-all difference. Michelin and Conti are the most expensive tyres on both the retail and wholesale UK and EU markets. Whereas the Jap and far eastern tyres have the cheapest (by a huge margin) wholesale market price - which explains why so many tyre companies only supply stuff like Yokohama, Khumo and the like - they make massive profits very easily from them, compared to more meagre profits from say Michelin.
And to take Porsche as a specific example - they are seen as an out-and-out performance car manufacturer, certainly without any compromises for passenger comfort, quietness, longevity, price, etc which more mainstream manufacturers consider from tyres. If these Goodyears were on a par with Michelin PS2 or ContiSportContact2/3, then Porsche would OEM fit them. Afterall, Porsche do have quite a large presence in the US, where the Yanks like to be loyal to their own country! :smug:
I agree - when looking for tyres I noticed that Goodyears were significantly cheaper than PE2's and PS2's.
I agree - it is borderline dangerous that they seem to require such a lengthy wearing in period, however there is nothing but praise for them once this period is over.
I couldn't have put it better myself - though if I had said that, I'd have probably got flamed! :rolleyes:
Staying with this "understeer" issue - how would you explain to the boys in blue, or your insurance company - if you understeered into a load of school kids or similar. "I'm sorry Ocifer, they all do that" . . . .
I put the 2 new F1 Asym's on the front, they are worn in now as I drove down south on them week before last - went round a usual long sweeping corner yesterday to see what they were like and the car stuck to the road just like before if not better.
Had all 4 put on mine and they have been faultless from the first day, more than pleased with mine
OK, thanks for the update. I would still be tempted to swap the wheels/tyres front and rear though, and see if there is any change. Maybe there is an inherent mis-match problem with the Goodyears, and Goodyear need to be advised if so. I know Michelin are absolutely excellent with their advisories regarding mixing tyres. Who knows . . . maybe Goodyear already know, and are keeping zipped, in a similar fashion to Renault with Clio bonnets, or Vauxhall with Vectra handbrakes. Afterall, it would seem to be a logical "upgrade" or progression from the discontinued Goodyear directionals to their latest asymmetrics . . .
....They have been advised - I've been talking with them for the last couple of weeks about my 'snatching' issue.
And their response was . . . .
I'll only swap if the issue reappears - Otherwise no need. I'm at VW Racing soon anyway, and we'll see what they think driving my car.
What's planned for the Red machine there? :smiley:
RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??
Out of interest, can you digress further about the bias shown against the Michelins in that test?
Not saying I disagree or owt, just interested :smiley:
I was wondering when somebody would ask about that! :smug:
Have you read the report recently? Did you notice anything about the LoadIndex of the tyres they tested? :rolleyes:I'm getting some gsd3s fitted as we speak, albeit not to a mk5 :grin: , but I've only heard good things about them, and they look the business :smiley:
Do peeps really go on "looks" over actual performance! :shocked:
Again, I wasn't saying that I bought them cos they looked good!
I bought them cos of the good reviews I've heard :cool:
And its coincidental that they happen to look good too.
RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??
....Is that GSD3 F1's or Assym F1's on the front axle?
Goodyear were very clear in their advice to only fit Assym's on AWD/quattro if all 4 tyres. But we know that the R32 is mostly FWD with AWD as and when needed - 80/20? 60/40?
Had all 4 put on mine and they have been faultless from the first day, more than pleased with mine
....That is much more important info than you probably realise! It's suggesting that Goodyear are right when they tell me that, although they don't know for certain, they think that it's the differential in the tyre's shoulder flexibility plus the strengthened internal shoulder construction of their Assyms which 'conflicts' with directional tyres such as GSD3's, and consequently sets off the ESP's 'snatching'.
Goodyear have already stated quite categorically that all four tyres should be Assym's on AWD, quattro cars but that it's okay to mix on FWD (matching tyres per axle).
OK, thanks for the update. I would still be tempted to swap the wheels/tyres front and rear though, and see if there is any change. Maybe there is an inherent mis-match problem with the Goodyears, and Goodyear need to be advised if so. I know Michelin are absolutely excellent with their advisories regarding mixing tyres. Who knows . . . maybe Goodyear already know, and are keeping zipped, in a similar fashion to Renault with Clio bonnets, or Vauxhall with Vectra handbrakes. Afterall, it would seem to be a logical "upgrade" or progression from the discontinued Goodyear directionals to their latest asymmetrics . . .
....They have been advised - I've been talking with them for the last couple of weeks about my 'snatching' issue.
And their response was . . . .
....As I posted earlier (unless it was in the now lost "snatching" thread) - That I should try swapping (as you suggested) if the problem persisted and would I please keep them informed.
I'll only swap if the issue reappears - Otherwise no need. I'm at VW Racing soon anyway, and we'll see what they think driving my car.
What's planned for the Red machine there? :smiley:
....Special version of Quaife diff developed with VW Racing and something I'll report about in due course. I've driven a friend's 290bhp GTI with one fitted - Truly awesome. Ironically, as the diff will reduce instances of ESP kicking in, it will probably help the Goodyear Assym 'snatch' problem. Perhaps Goodyear should pay for my Quaife!
I think I need to spend a spell in Modifiers Anonymous! I'm hoping that the Mk6 GTI isn't too sexy!! Talking of sexy cars for just a moment - I know a RS6 Avant fully Sportec loaded (40G's worth!), 03-plate 75k miles for sale £30k (he's getting latest version) - Automotive p0rn!! You wouldn't like it, T_T!
RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??
Goodyear were very clear in their advice to only fit Assym's on AWD/quattro if all 4 tyres. But we know that the R32 is mostly FWD with AWD as and when needed - 80/20? 60/40?
It's supposed to be better practice to put your deeper treads on the rear axle
There's a logic in having the strengths of the Assym's construction as the driven tyres, i.e. on front axle.
....Whereas a focussed driver will of course primarily consider a tyre's performance,
let's not kid ourselves that most of us also like eye-candy.
The tread of the GSD3's do look the business
I've even heard a lady who knows feck all about any tyres say "they look the business" (I'm pretty sure it was my new tyres she was referring to at the time!).
And Goodyear have confirmed that the "look" of a tyre can effect sales.
In a perfect world, tyres both perform well and look good
A bit like Porsche cars do both (imo) for example.
Would anyone here say these look cool? : -
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m12/eightyeightmph/Michelin%20Audi/Michelin.jpg)
....I wouldn't!
budget Nankang ditch-finders look the same and would have saved me about £100! :grin:
RR.. I have the F1's on my front and the Sport maxx on the rear but havent experienced anything of the kind. Took about 100miles to bed in and I havent looked back since... they would piddle all over the previous sport maxx I had on the front. Understeer??? what understeer??
....Is that GSD3 F1's or Assym F1's on the front axle?
Goodyear were very clear in their advice to only fit Assym's on AWD/quattro if all 4 tyres. But we know that the R32 is mostly FWD with AWD as and when needed - 80/20? 60/40?
F1 Assym's on the front and the sport max on the rears. The Sport maxx still have a fair bit of tread left... so I just thought it would be waste to change them. Not noticed any problems as yet... what should i be looking out for?? I encounter quite a few RA's on the way home and some good DC's to give it some.
There's a logic in having the strengths of the Assym's construction as the driven tyres, i.e. on front axle.
What specifically is the logic there? :smiley:
I know of something slightly different from Pirelli, which doesn't support Goodyears view.
Had all 4 put on mine and they have been faultless from the first day, more than pleased with mine
....That is much more important info than you probably realise! It's suggesting that Goodyear are right when they tell me that, although they don't know for certain, they think that it's the differential in the tyre's shoulder flexibility plus the strengthened internal shoulder construction of their Assyms which 'conflicts' with directional tyres such as GSD3's, and consequently sets off the ESP's 'snatching'.
If it is the case that the differing sidewalls are causing such noticeable problems, and Goodyear themselves are saying so, then they should issue categoric instructions that this specific combination should NOT be used on any car. Michelin technical are able to offer similar advice, so why arn't Goodyear able to do so?
Goodyear have already stated quite categorically that all four tyres should be Assym's on AWD, quattro cars but that it's okay to mix on FWD (matching tyres per axle).
Hmmm . . . not good, IMHO. Goodyear obviously are aware of the problem, with specific 4wd issues. RR, did Goodyear make any differentiation between "permanent" or "full-time" time 4wd systems, such as the Torsen quattro - verses the "automatic/on-demand" or "part-time" 4wd such as Haldex or visco couplings?
I'll only swap if the issue reappears - Otherwise no need. I'm at VW Racing soon anyway, and we'll see what they think driving my car.What's planned for the Red machine there? :smiley:
....Special version of Quaife diff developed with VW Racing and something I'll report about in due course. I've driven a friend's 290bhp GTI with one fitted - Truly awesome. Ironically, as the diff will reduce instances of ESP kicking in, it will probably help the Goodyear Assym 'snatch' problem. Perhaps Goodyear should pay for my Quaife!
Ohh - try to get some pics of the install. So what are VWR doing to the Quaiffe - or are they modifying the DSG control electronics? :drool:
....^Very useful info :cool:
I'd have to read back 5 pages and I've forgotten - Are you on Assyms on all 4, WhiteGTI?
Thanks :smiley:
Am i right in reading that the newer asym should be on all 4 wheels and not mixed (front/rear) because this is causing the snatching issue? so its 4 or nothing...? and if you get all 4, then they are fantastic??
Anyway, I stuck with it for 6000 miles and noticed that it did improve a little after say 5000 miles but the issue was still there and an annoyance.
Am i right in reading that the newer asym should be on all 4 wheels and not mixed (front/rear) because this is causing the snatching issue? so its 4 or nothing...? and if you get all 4, then they are fantastic??
....Currently Goodyear are only saying 'all-4' on AWD vehicles. It's only because of people like us who have given them feedback that they are aware of snatching issues on an 'axled-mix' on FWD.
Later next week I'll be driving my car at Bruntingthorpe with VW Racing and will take the opportunity to pick their brains on the subject. Mine (Assyms on rear axle only) have settled at the moment - After about 800 miles.
Work?? - I don't have time to work!!
....So you stuck it out for 6,000 miles!? shocked I think Goodyear would have got sick of my calls and communications well before then.