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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: RobS23GTI on 05 June 2015, 22:40
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While obviously not Golf specific, it is one of its rivals so thought it was worth mentioning.
Reviews look reasonably positive although it doesn't seem to better the R.
What I can't get over is the cost - £29995 base price for a Honda?? Which looks like it would only attract the Halfords crowd.
And for this extortionate amount you don't even get auto wipers, lights or dual zone climate control as standard?
I think I'll pass...
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I have never liked type R's, they are full of cheap plastic.
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Have sat in one and seen it in the flesh, not my cup of tea and i don't care if its the best fwd car at the moment, its like a nymphomaniac with the looks only a mother could love
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It would have a leading role in the Transformers film.
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I'm not saying I like the looks but there's no doubt it will stand out on the road and to me that's what a hot hatch should do. They should be a bit shouty and definitely a bit aggressive looking. Where this is possibly to OTT the golf R on the other hand is to demure in my eyes. I say each to their own.
I also don't get these statements like £30k for a Honda. It's £30k for a similar Golf, it's £30k for a similar Ford. Your paying for the performance. It's all relative nowadays
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Maybe a bit of badge snobbery in the statement, but I certainly wouldn't be pricing it in the same bracket as the R, S3 and M135i. And for my £30k I would expect a Honda to be fully loaded to justify the price - I definitely see it in the next bracket down in terms of premium, whatever the performance might be.
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Maybe a bit of badge snobbery in the statement, but I certainly wouldn't be pricing it in the same bracket as the R, S3 and M135i. And for my £30k I would expect a Honda to be fully loaded to justify the price - I definitely see it in the next bracket down in terms of premium, whatever the performance might be.
I can understand the badge snobbery. In my eyes VW is s step down from Audi and BMW but that's just my opinion. I think the common man in the street would think your doing better in life if you have one of the latter two over a VW
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More likely 'look at that daft tw4t in his Audi or BMW'. I certainly don't think someone is doing better in life if they have either of these tw4t machines. More and more charvers and scum bags are in Audi's and bmws these days so no thanks.
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It's not the driver Chris, the point i am making is that it's the perception of the car they are driving. If you asked 100 people who are not particularly interested in cars (which probably is true for the vast majority of the population) to compare the brands I'm sure you would find that BMW and Audi would be ahead of VW in the premium stakes
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OK I can put a spin on this thread by admitting I have owned four Type-R's prior to owning my current GTI PP. I will lay my cards down now and say the GTI PP is the best car I have ever owned by far. The last Type-R I owned was the Type-R Championship White with LSD, so I can fairly compare it to the GTI PP.
Performance: I would say it seems the Type-R has gained more power and is unable to use the full potential of the 310ps due to it being FWD. Although they have achieve a milestone of what is possible with FWD, the Golf R is far more capable and with 4WD and better torque figures it will wipe the floor with the Type-R. The torque of the Type-R looks like it has also gained a healthy boost at the lower end of its range but the GTI still has better pull at a lower range of rpm. I suspect the Type-R will scream when you get in to the 6000rpm range, as if it was anything like the ones I owned your power range is always not fully tapped until you hit over 6000rpm+.
Aesthetics: Although very OTT, I did like the look of the concept version of the latest Type-R, however Honda have done their usual of slapping in cheap non stylised part last minute before sale to cut costs and ruin the look of the car. The parts I am referring to are the front fog lights. The concept car had great angular slits for DRLs, but the Type-R on sale instead has these ugly cheap round fog lights slapped in to the front facia instead. There are other parts of the car like this which just do not scream buy me I am worth £30K.
On a side note the spoiler looks worse to see out the rear windows than the cars I owned. The spoiler on my last car sat perfectly in front of cars in your rear view mirror so you had no idea what was behind you, it just looked like empty road! The rear lights on the new Type-R also look like beacons they protrude so far out from the body of the car.
The styling of the Golf Mk7 GTI and R is far more grown up and premium. It's very much a case of less is more and what you do not initially see you are constantly noticing the finer details many months later. I am so much more a fan of the styling of the Golf MK7's than the new Type-R and I was originally planning on waiting to buy a Type-R before I bought the GTI at launch. So glad I did go the route of VW.
Interior Finish: Although the Type-R comes with Bucket Seats clad in alcantara standard and on initial look at the interior the Type-R will look great. However once in the car you will soon notice how fisher price the dash and interior really can be. There are large buttons and dials every where, the overall layout of the display is like a teenager has spewed it up out of his wild imagination with the two or in my Type-R three tier display layout. It really was quite a mess. The ease of access as to which button does what and where it might be when you are driving was also a major pain in the ass. To let you know I am a graphic designer and 3D modeller by trade so am used to remembering aand using complex key presses and but even I was maxed out by the vague layout of buttons and dials while driving. By this point you may feel I never liked my Type-R's, which is not true, it's just that one of the things which let them down was the finish of the dash and controls.
For the record the later 2 of my Type-R's did had dual zone climate control, auto wipers, auto headlights etc,. However if Honda have removed these as standard features then what were they thinking...
The finish and layout of my GTI is light years ahead. The materials used are far superior, the layout and design of the interior is also top notch when compared to my last Type-R (which I owned for 5 years so must have liked it).
Food for thought, the Nav screen in the Type-R is smaller than the Nav Pro in the Golf's and when the touch system comes in to the Golfs next year it will be even bigger at 13" for the screen.
Have you also noticed the Type-R has a thing called a 'Hand Brake'?
Overall this post would seem like I am slatting the Type-R. However going by past experience it will be a great car, but it will not be on the same level as the Golf Mk7 GTI or R in quality or finish. As for performance the Golf R will be better poised and able to use the full potential of it's 4 wheel drive system. The LSD in the Type-R I had was mechanical but the E-Diff in my GTI is far better and able to go much quicker around tight bends, I can vouch for this as I have tested it. I get at least 20 mph+ more around the same bend in the Golf E-Diff than I did from the Type-R LSD.
To summarise I will go and have a look at one, but will not be buying one. I am instead looking at the Golf GTI ED40 or if I am able to afford it Golf R400.
Hope this does not bore you guys too senseless :smiley:
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I don't think you can jump to opinions on performance until you have driven one. I agree re the styling, the concept car looked brilliant but Honda have clearly been cutting corners on the final product which is a shame.
I'll be very interested to see how it performs when it arrives. Im also very interested to see the new RS. I've never been a fan of Ford's but I think they have definitely improved the styling of the RS by toning it down slightly. Plus given it will have awd it will be a real competitor to the R (granted except for the quality in the cabin)
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Will reserve complete judgement until i see a new Type-R, however the 4WD in the Golf R which is similar at 300hp and with better torque at the lower end of the rpm range does lead me to think the Golf R will be a better poised car. Albeit it does also have more weight due to the 4WD system. If the Type-R is going to be £30K then why not go the whole hog and get a Golf R or even R400 if you have an extra few grand.
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I think you would need an extra £10k to get into an R400 if it ever appears
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CraigW, I do agree that Audi/BMW would be placed ahead of VW in the premium stakes, but I'd place VW ahead of Honda, Ford, Renault etc.
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I agree with RobS23GTI. After owning Hondas, I would place VW higher up in the premium stakes compared to Renault, Ford etc,.
I suspect I will end up going for a Golf GTI ED40 next, but should the Golf R400 come out and be sub £40K, funds allowing I would be seriously tempted.
Ford would never come in to mind as a purchase for me. Even if it were the RS. I would rather look for an equivalent spec car of another make. Ford just do not do it for me at all. :sick:
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Question should maybe be 'what do you want in a car?'
Type R is a seriously quick car, see link:
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html
Honda did a 7:50.63.
Whilst not a scientific test it keeps some serious company on the list and is quicker than anything else mentioned.
£30k does not seem so much considering it can seat 4-5, should have bullet proof engineering and a factory warranty.
It can do 165+ so should be quite relaxed at normal speeds with adaptive chassis.
It is probably a bit 'rough around the edges' and bit gaudy in comparison but then again it is likely aimed at the Playstation generation.
I reckon it will be a great car for what it is.
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I am sure the Type-R will be a great car and give rival FWD cars a run for their money. I also agree the engineering and reliability of Honda engines is bulletproof. I never had one fault in any of the 4 Type-R's I owned.
However I feel the Golfs are more refined.
Honda do seem to cut corners and on certain aspects. For example the rear susepnsion is still torsion beam not independent. I found the torsion beam fine for driving, but the tyres on the back wheels did tend to ripple with wear on the tread and it was a really stiff ride, which I was fine with but passengers did notice it and the car did clatter and crunch on pot holes etc,.
When I got my Golf I found the ride much nicer yet more posied than my previous Type-R which I absolutely loved at the time. As others have said the jury will be out until we can go in to a showroom and have a proper look at the car and make an informed decision.
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Brenbo: The Civic used to have independent multi-link rear suspension didn't it? I'm talking about the last of the Grandad looking bodyshapes before it went all space-age looking with that rear view spoiler across the back window rendering it useless as something to look out of. There were a few cutbacks (including the loss of the multi-link), although the R gained 1ps.
My mate had one of the last of the Grandad shape R-types and loved it. He wasn't so fussed about the newer one.
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Yeah the 'cheese wedge' shape pre-2007 Civic Type-R's did have independent, then it all went to Torsion Beam on the rear on the newer space age model as you call it mainly due to cost saving and space (larger boot etc,.) I was led to believe? I have had two versions of each type. The eariler pre-2007 models were like fire crackers and you could feel the difference in suspension. Although torsion beam aside the best of the 4 I had was the last one I owned, the Type-R Championship white. Mainly due to it finally having an LSD, which you noticed and the engine/exhaust did not sound as screechy and more tuned than the earlier ones.
I can understand why you mate loved his Type-R as I did too. I feel the styling of the cheese wedge shape Type-R's on the back was better than the newer ones. It was closer to the styling of the Golfs with the over head spoiler rather than obstructing the view and less fussy in styling overall. However the front of the newer space age ones was better and looked great. I am still reserving judgement on the new one being released this year. It looks like it could be a swine to clean. My last Type-R took more than half a day with all its fussy nooks and crannies, Then there was the white alloys. At least the new one doesn't have white wheels. :smiley:
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More likely 'look at that daft tw4t in his Audi or BMW'. I certainly don't think someone is doing better in life if they have either of these tw4t machines. More and more charvers and scum bags are in Audi's and bmws these days so no thanks.
I agree! Plus most are company cars or on credit :grin:
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More likely 'look at that daft tw4t in his Audi or BMW'. I certainly don't think someone is doing better in life if they have either of these tw4t machines. More and more charvers and scum bags are in Audi's and bmws these days so no thanks.
I agree! Plus most are company cars or on credit :grin:
You could argue most R's are on ridiculously cheap lease deals which devalues the car somewhat
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More likely 'look at that daft tw4t in his Audi or BMW'. I certainly don't think someone is doing better in life if they have either of these tw4t machines. More and more charvers and scum bags are in Audi's and bmws these days so no thanks.
I agree! Plus most are company cars or on credit :grin:
You could argue most R's are on ridiculously cheap lease deals which devalues the car somewhat
The young lad in his white mk7 R that pulled up at the lights next to me yesterday trying to show off failed.
As I just though I know what you pay a month for that lol.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes/chip on the shoulder attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just exhibits your own lack of worthiness.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just shows your lack of worthiness.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: just need to mention the word lease and it's like a red rag to a bull. Even though you have an R you clearly have some sort of inferiority complex because it's leased and so you have to defend it at every given opportunity. I was only replying to someone who said that most Beemers are company cars or on credit. I was merely pointing out that likewise many R's are on lease rather than purchased outright. You need to relax more
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Here we go again with the sour grapes attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just shows your lack of worthiness.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: just need to mention the word lease and it's like a red rag to a bull. Even though you have an R you clearly have some sort of inferiority complex because it's leased and so you have to defend it at every given opportunity. I was only replying to someone who said that most Beemers are company cars or on credit. I was merely pointing out that likewise many R's are on lease rather than purchased outright. You need to relax more
And you got a well deserved answer. :laugh:
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Here we go again with the sour grapes attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just shows your lack of worthiness.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: just need to mention the word lease and it's like a red rag to a bull. Even though you have an R you clearly have some sort of inferiority complex because it's leased and so you have to defend it at every given opportunity. I was only replying to someone who said that most Beemers are company cars or on credit. I was merely pointing out that likewise many R's are on lease rather than purchased outright. You need to relax more
And you got a well deserved answer. :laugh:
And if you owned an R I would respect that answer :whistle: :whistle: :grin: :grin:
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Here we go again with the sour grapes attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just shows your lack of worthiness.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: just need to mention the word lease and it's like a red rag to a bull. Even though you have an R you clearly have some sort of inferiority complex because it's leased and so you have to defend it at every given opportunity. I was only replying to someone who said that most Beemers are company cars or on credit. I was merely pointing out that likewise many R's are on lease rather than purchased outright. You need to relax more
And you got a well deserved answer. :laugh:
And if you owned an R I would respect that answer :whistle: :whistle: :grin: :grin:
I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they? Mine is leased but I have the option to purchase at the end as it's now through VWFS. Don't most people do a PCP which also mean they don't technically own it either? Could be wrong as I put mine through my business so I don't pay for it anyway.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just shows your lack of worthiness.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: just need to mention the word lease and it's like a red rag to a bull. Even though you have an R you clearly have some sort of inferiority complex because it's leased and so you have to defend it at every given opportunity. I was only replying to someone who said that most Beemers are company cars or on credit. I was merely pointing out that likewise many R's are on lease rather than purchased outright. You need to relax more
And you got a well deserved answer. :laugh:
And if you owned an R I would respect that answer :whistle: :whistle: :grin: :grin:
Silly boy. :whistle:
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I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
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That was a genuine question lol. I'm not joining in the lease argument.
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That was a genuine question lol. I'm not joining in the lease argument.
:huh: Erm, it was a genuine answer. Some still buy outright, I am one of them. I have no desire to stoke the lease v owned argument either.
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It's interesting to see that the entire last page of this thread has gone of the original topic regarding the 'New Civic Type R'. For what's it's worth (and that's not much) I also previously owned an FN2 2008 Type R and I loved it. I loved the noise and character of the car, the fact that you could switch things off and have some real fun! I have a Gti PP and I think the car has many great virtues, but I just don't love this car, it's just a bit too good and linear for my enjoyment. It's a very subjective topic this and I am looking forwards to trying the new Honda, there are others on the list, including Golf R, Focus RS, Audi RS3 are of interest so far. I love quick, characterful, petrol engined cars and have absolutely no badge snobbery at all. Cheers all :smiley:
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That was a genuine question lol. I'm not joining in the lease argument.
There was no lease argument until the resident WUM decided to step in.
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I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
Thanks for the direct answer. I could buy mine but never really thought about because it was easier to leave the car to business than to add an asset to the balance sheet or do it privately. Do you mind me asking what sways you to buy? Do you keep them slog time?
It get twitchy are 2 years so need a new one before I go crazy
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That was a genuine question lol. I'm not joining in the lease argument.
:huh: Erm, it was a genuine answer. Some still buy outright, I am one of them. I have no desire to stoke the lease v owned argument either.
Sorry, that was aimed at the reply inbetween our comments .
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It's interesting to see that the entire last page of this thread has gone of the original topic regarding the 'New Civic Type R'. For what's it's worth (and that's not much) I also previously owned an FN2 2008 Type R and I loved it. I loved the noise and character of the car, the fact that you could switch things off and have some real fun! I have a Gti PP and I think the car has many great virtues, but I just don't love this car, it's just a bit too good and linear for my enjoyment. It's a very subjective topic this and I am looking forwards to trying the new Honda, there are others on the list, including Golf R, Focus RS, Audi RS3 are of interest so far. I love quick, characterful, petrol engined cars and have absolutely no badge snobbery at all. Cheers all :smiley:
Excellent post. :smiley:
Have you thought of remapping the GTI to give it the one thing it lacks?
I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
Thanks for the direct answer. I could buy mine but never really thought about because it was easier to leave the car to business than to add an asset to the balance sheet or do it privately. Do you mind me asking what sways you to buy? Do you keep them slog time?
It get twitchy are 2 years so need a new one before I go crazy
I'm a 'buyer' too and unlike Miss B I don't keep my cars for a good few years generally, I get twitchy after a shortish time unless the car is exceptionally good or charismatic.
Buying allows me to swap cars at any time I wish on my own terms. Plus it allows me to modify my cars, which admittedly I do much less (if at all) nowadays without upsetting any small print in a contract.
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I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
Thanks for the direct answer. I could buy mine but never really thought about because it was easier to leave the car to business than to add an asset to the balance sheet or do it privately. Do you mind me asking what sways you to buy? Do you keep them slog time?
It get twitchy are 2 years so need a new one before I go crazy
I keep them 3 years, sometimes 4. I really don't get twitchy before then so am never really tempted to change before the 3 year mark. It's hard to say why I prefer to buy outright, I simply like to 'own' my car. It's bit like a house owning (setting the mortgage issue aside) I prefer to own as opposed to renting.
That said, I think it can only be a good thing that there is a wider choice of options available when it comes to obtaining a car, and I really couldn't care less how someone is paying for their car. I certainly wouldn't rule out lease or PCP in the future.
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I love quick, characterful, petrol engined cars and have absolutely no badge snobbery at all. Cheers all :smiley:
A very refreshing comment :smiley:
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That was a genuine question lol. I'm not joining in the lease argument.
:huh: Erm, it was a genuine answer. Some still buy outright, I am one of them. I have no desire to stoke the lease v owned argument either.
Sorry, that was aimed at the reply inbetween our comments .
Error in my previous reply. Now corrected. Apologies.
I don't keep cars for more than 2-3 years max as I get bored, dislike having my money tied up in a throw-away depreciating asset, lease against my business as it makes financial sense, get the cheapest deal possible with some major haggling, have not got the time or the patience to sell cars, etc. Got a brilliant deal on the R with an option to buy. It was too good to refuse and it triggered the sale of my BMW. Made excellent financial sense.
I used to buy cars. I bought my last BMW, in fact we bought two with a discount of 25.5% on each. Our other car is another new BMW which we now lease.
Different strokes for different folks.
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I keep them 3 years, sometimes 4. I really don't get twitchy before then so am never really tempted to change before the 3 year mark. It's hard to say why I prefer to buy outright, I simply like to 'own' my car. It's bit like a house owning (setting the mortgage issue aside) I prefer to own as opposed to renting.
That said, I think it can only be a good thing that there is a wider choice of options available when it comes to obtaining a car, and I really couldn't care less how someone is paying for their car. I certainly wouldn't rule out lease or PCP in the future.
Exactly. Do the sums carefully and go for the method of acquisition which makes the best financial sense and what you are comfortable with.
Back on topic: I would not buy or lease the Type R even if the deal was super. The car is too Lego-like. If it was being given away for free, then I could possibly be tempted to think twice. On second thoughts: NO.
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I keep them 3 years, sometimes 4. I really don't get twitchy before then so am never really tempted to change before the 3 year mark. It's hard to say why I prefer to buy outright, I simply like to 'own' my car. It's bit like a house owning (setting the mortgage issue aside) I prefer to own as opposed to renting.
That said, I think it can only be a good thing that there is a wider choice of options available when it comes to obtaining a car, and I really couldn't care less how someone is paying for their car. I certainly wouldn't rule out lease or PCP in the future.
Back on topic: I would not buy or lease the Type R even if the deal was super. The car is too Lego-like. If it was being given away for free, then I could possibly be tempted to think twice. On second thoughts: NO.
As I said a minute ago, I am refreshed by Buggaluggs attitude, in part because I'm not like that myself. Though not necessarily a badge snob (ahem), if I don't like the looks of the car, then it's a no-no from the off. Shallow I know. The thing I don't like about the likes of the Type R and co, is the highly stylised looks, often with stupid shaped tailpipes, intakes etc. They only help to date the car prematurely. The evolved, perhaps dull looks (not as dull as the A3 though :whistle:) of the Golf is an advantage in this respect.
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I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
Depends on the deal, and the car you want.
Despite buying the R, there was a seriously thought provoking lease deal for a second car on HUKD this week. If the missus was a bit further along in her driving lessons, I might've jumped in there. On a 1+17 term, they have Peugeot 208 GTIs for £163 a month. To buy, the depreciation would be horrendous, and PCP terms will be somewhere around twice the monthly lease rate. Should be a fine second car for the monthly cost. There are other cars we'd rather be buying for the kind of money the Peugeot would cost to cover the depreciation over the spell of ownership, but for a deal like that i'd lease.
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I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
Depends on the deal, and the car you want.
Despite buying the R, there was a seriously thought provoking lease deal for a second car on HUKD this week. If the missus was a bit further along in her driving lessons, I might've jumped in there. On a 1+17 term, they have Peugeot 208 GTIs for £163 a month. To buy, the depreciation would be horrendous, and PCP terms will be somewhere around twice the monthly lease rate. Should be a fine second car for the monthly cost. There are other cars we'd rather be buying for the kind of money the Peugeot would cost to cover the depreciation over the spell of ownership, but for a deal like that i'd lease.
Do you really need another 'hot hatch for the missus MH', I.e is this her choice or yours :grin:
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I can't imagine many outright buy new cars do they?
Although it is increasingly á la mode to rent a car these days, some of us still do it the old fashioned way, me included.
Depends on the deal, and the car you want.
Despite buying the R, there was a seriously thought provoking lease deal for a second car on HUKD this week. If the missus was a bit further along in her driving lessons, I might've jumped in there. On a 1+17 term, they have Peugeot 208 GTIs for £163 a month. To buy, the depreciation would be horrendous, and PCP terms will be somewhere around twice the monthly lease rate. Should be a fine second car for the monthly cost. There are other cars we'd rather be buying for the kind of money the Peugeot would cost to cover the depreciation over the spell of ownership, but for a deal like that i'd lease.
Do you really need another 'hot hatch for the missus MH', I.e is this her choice or yours :grin:
At that monthly outlay i'd have her get one. If I can't wangle a car share then we'd be alternating cars every week to spread the miles (she's only 8 miles from her work, i'll be 24 miles away in the new job). You can't buy much these days for £163 a month's depreciation.
She'd be happy enough in a mundane 1.2 A1, and i'd begrudge driving it. The Peugeot is surprisingly well equipped, the A1 would need a fair few bits on the options list.
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I think it looks great, and Honda should be applauded for giving us a car that looks different. Hot hatches have became very subtle recently. Even the new Focus RS has lost it's boxed arches and as a result looks quite normal.
Whether you like the looks of the Type-R or not is down to personal taste, but it looks undeniably fast, more so than an R once off the line.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes/chip on the shoulder attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just exhibits your own lack of worthiness.
As that was a reply directly after mine i take it it was directed at me. Oh well...
What i was saying was that a new car is no longer a status or afluent statement as it once was. The lad looked and responded was clear what he was thinking and trying to say which i just found funny.
No sour grapes here, or chip on shoulder, if i wanted an R id own an R, the cost is not even close to been an issue.
On the Honda subject. Its not my taste, but i respect Hondas engineering and assembly quality and rate them far above modern VWs.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes/chip on the shoulder attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just exhibits your own lack of worthiness.
As that was a reply directly after mine i take it it was directed at me. Oh well...
What i was saying was that a new car is no longer a status or afluent statement as it once was. The lad looked and responded was clear what he was thinking and trying to say which i just found funny.
No sour grapes here, or chip on shoulder, if i wanted an R id own an R, the cost is not even close to been an issue.
On the Honda subject. Its not my taste, but i respect Hondas engineering and assembly quality and rate them far above modern VWs.
I actually did not see your post (sorry but true) and it was not directed at you but at a previous poster. Now that I have read your post, it is still not directed at you!
Honda's have very good build quality and I too rate them above modern VWs. However, the Type R for me has challenging looks which I find difficult to accept. Maybe in real life it might be less of an eyesore.
My R has now developed a horrible loud creaking noise from the fake carbon trim (which lights up) on the passenger front door. It is not as securely fitted as the one on the driver's side. Probably needs a new door card. Another warranty issue. I can't see the car being rattle free for its 3 year term with me. Car feels pretty flimsy in a lot of places.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just shows your lack of worthiness.
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: just need to mention the word lease and it's like a red rag to bullsh1t.
Haven't you lot got better things to do on a Saturday night?
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Depends on the deal, and the car you want.
Despite buying the R, there was a seriously thought provoking lease deal for a second car on HUKD this week. If the missus was a bit further along in her driving lessons, I might've jumped in there. On a 1+17 term, they have Peugeot 208 GTIs for £163 a month. To buy, the depreciation would be horrendous, and PCP terms will be somewhere around twice the monthly lease rate. Should be a fine second car for the monthly cost. There are other cars we'd rather be buying for the kind of money the Peugeot would cost to cover the depreciation over the spell of ownership, but for a deal like that i'd lease.
I saw that deal in the week too. I quite like the shorter lease term also, but it's a hell of a good price for a decent car.
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Some good deals with CVL. Golf R Estate going cheap!
http://www.centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/
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Here we go again with the sour grapes/chip on the shoulder attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just exhibits your own lack of worthiness.
The R is not the best VW Golf. "The best" is a totally subjective term, and "the best" is what suits each person. Some people may consider the GTD the best as what they look for is consumption over speed. The interior is near on identical bar some trim changes. And given your recent post on the R forum, if you consider the R to be the best I'd hate to think what you consider the worst - your constant moaning about your car is so tiresome. Why don't you just sell it and go back to a BMW for all our sakes!
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Here we go again with the sour grapes/chip on the shoulder attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just exhibits your own lack of worthiness.
The R is not the best VW Golf. "The best" is a totally subjective term, and "the best" is what suits each person. Some people may consider the GTD the best as what they look for is consumption over speed. The interior is near on identical bar some trim changes. And given your recent post on the R forum, if you consider the R to be the best I'd hate to think what you consider the worst - your constant moaning about your car is so tiresome. Why don't you just sell it and go back to a BMW for all our sakes!
The R is the fastest golf. You are absolutely right its not the best, If you want a golf that has super low emissions its the worst. You'd probably need to delve into the E golf for that.
I believe AM1W needs to take a look at himself, he's always moaning about how poor his R is compared to his Beloved BMW. He definitely should bugger off back to them. Im fed up of his constant trolling.
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Here we go again with the sour grapes/chip on the shoulder attitude of some non R owners.
It matters not a jot how a car is being paid for. Smart people go for smart deals. As things stand at the present, if you are really smart and are set on acquiring a Performance Golf with a view to economy and don't mind a tractor engine, you should go GTD and definitely not GTI.
The R is the best VW Golf, end of. R owners, whether leasers or outright buyers can be secure in the knowledge that they have the best Performance Golf, that is probably until the R400 is released.
And if someone is driving a better and/or more expensive car than yourself, don't judge them by your own flawed standards as some of you are doing. Just exhibits your own lack of worthiness.
The R is not the best VW Golf. "The best" is a totally subjective term, and "the best" is what suits each person. Some people may consider the GTD the best as what they look for is consumption over speed. The interior is near on identical bar some trim changes. And given your recent post on the R forum, if you consider the R to be the best I'd hate to think what you consider the worst - your constant moaning about your car is so tiresome. Why don't you just sell it and go back to a BMW for all our sakes!
+++1. The posts whether trolling or not (who cares?) are really tedious and boring. Is there an ignore function on here?
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So much vitriol. Cathartic?
Shameful.
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(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif)
Before this thread gets locked, I just wanna say that I actually think that the Type R looks great, the only reason I wouldn't want it is that its gonna be just another wheel-slipping FWD, especially after I map it.
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Despite buying the R, there was a seriously thought provoking lease deal for a second car on HUKD this week. If the missus was a bit further along in her driving lessons, I might've jumped in there. On a 1+17 term, they have Peugeot 208 GTIs for £163 a month. To buy, the depreciation would be horrendous, and PCP terms will be somewhere around twice the monthly lease rate.
Do you not fancy a VW Up for £50 odd a month? I had one for a week and although basic I quite enjoyed the fun factor of it.
For that kind of money its a give-away.
Would also make you appreciate your R more every week you get to drive it.
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Despite buying the R, there was a seriously thought provoking lease deal for a second car on HUKD this week. If the missus was a bit further along in her driving lessons, I might've jumped in there. On a 1+17 term, they have Peugeot 208 GTIs for £163 a month. To buy, the depreciation would be horrendous, and PCP terms will be somewhere around twice the monthly lease rate.
Do you not fancy a VW Up for £50 odd a month? I had one for a week and although basic I quite enjoyed the fun factor of it.
For that kind of money its a give-away.
Would also make you appreciate your R more every week you get to drive it.
What does "Choose Your Initial Rental" period mean in these?
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Friend of mine leased an Up! from CVL last year: £500 deposit, 5000 miles, 24 month lease, £2.50 per month! Now that is a bargain.
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Friend of mine leased an Up! from CVL last year: £500 deposit, 5000 miles, 24 month lease, £2.50 per month! Now that is a bargain.
It is indeed :laugh: Even at that price, doubt I could hack an UP for more than a few days, just about bearable as a chuckable temporary courtesy car., but the novelty would wear off in about 2 minutes! Not a bad shout for a first car for someone who's just passed their test. Not sure I'd let a brand new driver loose in my GTI/R :shocked:
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Friend of mine leased an Up! from CVL last year: £500 deposit, 5000 miles, 24 month lease, £2.50 per month! Now that is a bargain.
Where do you get that kind of deal am1w?
That's a total of £560 for 2 years!!! Sounds a bit far fetched to me.
Definitely some great deals out there if you are prepared to compromise for a second car.
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i had to admit the am thinking about swapping the Polo for a leased Golf R Estate :grin:
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i had to admit the am thinking about swapping the Polo for a leased Golf R Estate :grin:
:grin: :grin: are you familiar with the word "overkill" :grin: :grin:
Anybody would think you're a bit of a fan of the R... :cool:Friend of mine leased an Up! from CVL last year: £500 deposit, 5000 miles, 24 month lease, £2.50 per month! Now that is a bargain.
It is indeed :laugh: Even at that price, doubt I could hack an UP for more than a few days, just about bearable as a chuckable temporary courtesy car., but the novelty would wear off in about 2 minutes! Not a bad shout for a first car for someone who's just passed their test. Not sure I'd let a brand new driver loose in my GTI/R :shocked:
I don't think I'd want to give a brand new leased car to someone who hadn't passed their test long, :shocked: even if it was just an UP!
You're liable for any damage and the amount of scraped bumpers and kerbed wheels, plus mirrors and bramble scratches accumulated by someone who's not yet mastered the art of how wide a car is would be potentially frightening! Much better to run about in a banger for a couple years and only replace what needs replacing for MOT purposes.
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I don't think I'd want to give a brand new leased car to someone who hadn't passed their test long, :shocked: even if it was just an UP!
You're liable for any damage and the amount of scraped bumpers and kerbed wheels, plus mirrors and bramble scratches accumulated by someone who's not yet mastered the art of how wide a car is would be potentially frightening! Much better to run about in a banger for a couple years and only replace what needs replacing for MOT purposes.
That's a very good point Mr Ex. I don't think I'd hand over a new leased car to a newbie driver either. I'd buy first ever car outright, either a banger or something very cheap and cheerful.
Running a banger, improving spacial awareness and, dare I say it, getting any early little teething knocks out of the way, used to be a rite of passage for any new driver. Times have changed though.
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I don't think I'd want to give a brand new leased car to someone who hadn't passed their test long, :shocked: even if it was just an UP!
You're liable for any damage and the amount of scraped bumpers and kerbed wheels, plus mirrors and bramble scratches accumulated by someone who's not yet mastered the art of how wide a car is would be potentially frightening! Much better to run about in a banger for a couple years and only replace what needs replacing for MOT purposes.
That's a very good point Mr Ex. I don't think I'd hand over a new leased car to a newbie driver either. I'd buy first ever car outright, either a banger or something very cheap and cheerful.
Running a banger, improving spacial awareness and, dare I say it, getting any early little teething knocks out of the way, used to be a rite of passage for any new driver. Times have changed though.
Running???
You mean Crashing Booth!
(https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/1930733_39683092925_6227_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=f0f43e6a44f79827bdad296c7fda1b31&oe=56313F10&__gda__=1441761781_3ed305eeb9ae5ea5df0eccd9c29511ad)
Passed my test all of 4 days! :grin: cost me more for the crane to recover it than it did the car, how it should be if you ask me! :wink:
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Running???
You mean Crashing Booth!
(https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/1930733_39683092925_6227_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=f0f43e6a44f79827bdad296c7fda1b31&oe=56313F10&__gda__=1441761781_3ed305eeb9ae5ea5df0eccd9c29511ad)
Passed my test all of 4 days! :grin: cost me more for the crane to recover it than it did the car, how it should be if you ask me! :wink:
That's an extreme example demonstrating my "get the early knocks out of the way" point :laugh: Surprised you are still here to regale us with that tale Graham. Remind me NEVER to let you borrow my R!
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i had to admit the am thinking about swapping the Polo for a leased Golf R Estate :grin:
But the main question is - will it be blue? :laugh:
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Running???
You mean Crashing Booth!
(https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/1930733_39683092925_6227_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=f0f43e6a44f79827bdad296c7fda1b31&oe=56313F10&__gda__=1441761781_3ed305eeb9ae5ea5df0eccd9c29511ad)
Passed my test all of 4 days! :grin: cost me more for the crane to recover it than it did the car, how it should be if you ask me! :wink:
That's an extreme example demonstrating my "get the early knocks out if the way" point :laugh: Surprised you are still here to regale us with that tale Graham. Remind me NEVER to let you borrow my R!
Yeah but i've got ABS now Booth, havent rolled since! :tongue:
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Yeah but i've got ABS now Booth, havent rolled since! :tongue:
Probably more luck than skill :tongue: Bet you've tried :grin:
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Yeah but i've got ABS now Booth, havent rolled since! :tongue:
Probably more luck than skill :tongue: Bet you've tried :grin:
lol im actually quite cautious towards blind corners now on country lanes now, but for those 4 shorts day, I was invincible :evil:
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:grin: :grin: are you familiar with the word "overkill" :grin: :grin:
Anybody would think you're a bit of a fan of the R... :cool:
I have been looking at replacements for the Polo and actually fancied a GTD DSG or Polo GT but the R Estate is cheaper
But the main question is - will it be blue? :laugh:
As all great p!ss artists i have been through my blue phase and will be moving on to a different palette
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As all great p!ss artists i have been through my blue phase and will be moving on to a different palette
Well if it was good enough for Picasso :smiley:
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The friend leased the Up! for himself. Since then he has given it to one of his cleaners. His other cars are Ferrari, Rolls, Lambo, McLaren, Range Rover, Mercedes, BMW, various Porsches and counting. No Audi yet! He has a 35 car garage when I counted last year.
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The friend leased the Up! for himself. Since then he has given it to one of his cleaners. His other cars are Ferrari, Rolls, Lambo, McLaren, Range Rover, Mercedes, BMW, various Porsches and counting. No Audi yet! He has a 35 car garage when I counted last year.
I'm sure that you won't mind me pointing out that 'up!' should have a lower case 'u'. :wink:
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/up-nf/home
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The friend leased the Up! for himself. Since then he has given it to one of his cleaners. His other cars are Ferrari, Rolls, Lambo, McLaren, Range Rover, Mercedes, BMW, various Porsches and counting. No Audi yet! He has a 35 car garage when I counted last year.
I'm sure that you won't mind me pointing out that 'up!' should have a lower case 'u'. :wink:
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/up-nf/home
up! it is.
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I have looked through this thread but cannot see whether this Auto Express Review of the Type R has already been posted.
So here it is:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/civic/91748/type-r?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter
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I agree with you. I may be a bit out of date on this one but the lifecycle of Japanese cars is (used to be) generally 3 years whereas 6 or 7 years for European cars, the result is that many Japanese cars look outdated fairly early on in their life. They have a good reputation for mechanical reliability but I find the interiors to be somewhat rubbish compared to the German marques. I will be keeping my Golf GTI pp.
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I agree with you. I may be a bit out of date on this one but the lifecycle of Japanese cars is (used to be) generally 3 years whereas 6 or 7 years for European cars, the result is that many Japanese cars look outdated fairly early on in their life. They have a good reputation for mechanical reliability but I find the interiors to be somewhat rubbish compared to the German marques. I will be keeping my Golf GTI pp.
Better residuals also make a German car relatively cheap vs the RRP. It would be interesting to see what the GFVs are for the Civic R type. If it's in the region of 40-45% RRP after 3 years and the level of discount achievable isn't up around 12% then it's going to end up costing at least £100pm more than an R or a GTI on PCP terms. This R-type will have to be absolutely class-leading for a FWD car to persuade anyone but the Honda fanatics to part with £30k for one.
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The best saving I made on part exchanging a car was my previous Civic Type-R Championship White when i traded it in for my GTI PP. I paid about £21.5K and got £10K for it after 4.5 years to almost 5 years of ownership. This is less than £2.5K a year. Not bad return for a cash bought car. I completely agree with GTI_Ant about the reliability and finish of the interior. I also will be keeping my GTI PP. :smiley:
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I have looked through this thread but cannot see whether this Auto Express Review of the Type R has already been posted.
So here it is:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/civic/91748/type-r?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter
That's a good link Asker.
I meant to post this one up the other day too but got sidetracked. Bloody work gets in the way of everything!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGCZiFyqVw
Note how close the Leon gets to the Civic's time bearing in mind it doesn't have the Sub 8 pack with super sticky tyres.
When we also bear in mind how close the Leon chassis is to the Golf GTI, it says a lot for the MQB platform potential.
I sometimes see on forums that people don't like the VAG stuff as "it's overpriced German rubbish that's boring to look at" which goes to prove that not everyone likes VAG cars and a lot of people don't factor in total ownership costs - merely looking at RRP and retained % (if indeed the latter).
Brenbo also proves a point that there's a good market for used Type R's too so ownership costs should be quite good on them as you'd not expect too many big bills once out of warranty either. Maybe you might get more problems with the newer turbo'd engines but you'd expect Japanese stuff to be pretty well engineered at the very least.
I also see people bemoan the very linear power deliveries of the German cars too, I've often seen comments saying GTI's and R's are a bit boring to drive as there's just power and torque right through the range, where some people like to work at their engine and feel like they've had a good workout after a spirited drive.
So horses for courses.
I kind of like the fact the Civic throws over 300bhp through the front wheels and gets away with it as it's not exactly short on torque either.
I'd still rather live with a GTI or R day to day though. Or a GTD for that matter.
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I found the Type-R (natural aspirated 201 bhp) due to the low torque a bit less fun than my GTI PP to drive. The kick from the torque in the GTI is more fun in my opinion. The fun of a Type-R was the high nature of it's high reving engine and having to get high revs before you got any potential out of it.
As Exonian says, I would prefer to live with a GTI day to day myself. I have had several years of Type-R's, done that part of my life now :smiley:
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I've only ever driven one Civic Type R and that was in 2002. I remember thinking that whilst it was a hoot on the test drive, it would soon become tiresome. It also made a great song and dance about overtaking. If you wanted to pop past a couple of cars, you had to keep pressing on afterwards, otherwise you would look a complete tw@ having made such a lot of noise, but not got much further ahead. I bought a Leon Cupra instead. That was much better as I could make progress without anyone really noticing.
I have no clue what the new car will be like from a realistic, grown up point of view, but a friend from way back that works for Honda R+D has said he'll bring one for me to try when he gets one to bring home. I'll let you know what I think then.
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I have no clue what the new car will be like from a realistic, grown up point of view, but a friend from way back that works for Honda R+D has said he'll bring one for me to try when he gets one to bring home. I'll let you know what I think then.
That's handy. Look forward to your objective report.
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I've only ever driven one Civic Type R and that was in 2002. I remember thinking that whilst it was a hoot on the test drive, it would soon become tiresome. It also made a great song and dance about overtaking. If you wanted to pop past a couple of cars, you had to keep pressing on afterwards, otherwise you would look a complete tw@ having made such a lot of noise, but not got much further ahead. I bought a Leon Cupra instead. That was much better as I could make progress without anyone really noticing.
I have no clue what the new car will be like from a realistic, grown up point of view, but a friend from way back that works for Honda R+D has said he'll bring one for me to try when he gets one to bring home. I'll let you know what I think then.
I bet there aren't too many 25 year old Civics that look like your MKII. Total quality.
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Cheers Ant. (sees and opportunity to post a pic) This is how it looks these days.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/dubber36/SAM_0033_zps49c2c98e.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/dubber36/media/SAM_0033_zps49c2c98e.jpg.html)
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Cheers Ant. (sees and opportunity to post a pic) This is how it looks these days.
Your mk2 looks brilliant dubber36 :cool:, although it must be a real labour of love cleaning those wheels!
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Cheers Ant. (sees and opportunity to post a pic) This is how it looks these days.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/dubber36/SAM_0033_zps49c2c98e.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/dubber36/media/SAM_0033_zps49c2c98e.jpg.html)
Lovely Simon :cool:
Are you taking it to Inters?
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Always nice to see an original unmolested expample
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Are you taking it to Inters?
I've got my ticket and concourse pass, but I'm not really feeling it this year. I'm loosing the passion for cars, Mk2 included. :undecided:
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Are you taking it to Inters?
I've got my ticket and concourse pass, but I'm not really feeling it this year. I'm loosing the passion for cars, Mk2 included. :undecided:
Bike love has killed car love :smiley: :sad: :undecided:
Was the other way round with me......(but I still love bikes)
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£30k Honda.... Deep breath....
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much a VW man (though not in your new school world), but I'm sure there's plenty of other marque fans out there that question the £30-40k price tag of a new high end Golf. I guess we'll have to wait for that test drive mentioned prev, or see the new Civic and an equiv new Golf battle it out on track...?
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I had a 51 plate CTR and in all fairness it was brill as long as you didn't do long journeys. I took it to South Wales and Cornwall a few times and it was a 'mare. The suspension was way too hard and hours of motorway driving isn't what a CTR is about. The whole hard core suspension thing was what put me off the Fiesta ST this time around - it's loved by testers and great value but I want to keep hold of my teeth.
On a positive note -all credit to Honda for making it. It shows just what can be achieved with a 'hot hatch' so to speak and in the current world of low emissions and high fuel economy it's good to know engineers can still innovate & deliver great cars.
Neil
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I had a 51 plate CTR and in all fairness it was brill as long as you didn't do long journeys. I took it to South Wales and Cornwall a few times and it was a 'mare. The suspension was way too hard and hours of motorway driving isn't what a CTR is about. The whole hard core suspension thing was what put me off the Fiesta ST this time around - it's loved by testers and great value but I want to keep hold of my teeth.
On a positive note -all credit to Honda for making it. It shows just what can be achieved with a 'hot hatch' so to speak and in the current world of low emissions and high fuel economy it's good to know engineers can still innovate & deliver great cars.
Neil
The CTR was a limo in comparison to the Integra Type-R... I had two of those and the first was a company car in which I did 78,000 miles in 20 months... Still the only car that I've taken to the rev limiter in top gear... Noisier and stiffer than the CTR... I still have all my own teeth :cool:
The Fiesta ST I drove was a bit on the bumpy side but not in the same league as either the CTR or the Integra...
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I loved the look of the Integra but never had the opportunity to drive one - jealous!
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I had a 51 plate CTR and in all fairness it was brill as long as you didn't do long journeys. I took it to South Wales and Cornwall a few times and it was a 'mare. The suspension was way too hard and hours of motorway driving isn't what a CTR is about. The whole hard core suspension thing was what put me off the Fiesta ST this time around - it's loved by testers and great value but I want to keep hold of my teeth.
On a positive note -all credit to Honda for making it. It shows just what can be achieved with a 'hot hatch' so to speak and in the current world of low emissions and high fuel economy it's good to know engineers can still innovate & deliver great cars.
Neil
Only spent a small amount of time in an FN2 and I noticed it was firm, not enough time to make a full judgement but its a repeated comment I've seen. Seats were good though.
The EP3 looks like a grannies car to me.
I'm not sure they've been that innovative? Turbocharged 4 cylinder like the rest.
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Honda vs Seat vs Renault:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGCZiFyqVw&feature=player_embedded
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Honda vs Seat vs Renault:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGCZiFyqVw&feature=player_embedded
Sutters nearly bounced out of the drivers seat into the roof round the track in the Civic, whats it going to be like on a road?
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It looked so hard. If it's like that on the road it wouldn't make a decent daily driver. Having had a previous CTR, brilliant when you are in the mood and have the opportunity but 4 hrs to Cornwall -effin nightmare and I did that journey several times.
Neil
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It'd be like riding a space hopper! No use as a daily driver., you'd have a permanent headache, and shattered teeth.
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I think this car has the usual journo hype and how good it is on track or the ring, autocar have put it behind the megane and R
Having sat in those bucket seats I have a feeling they are not the place you want to be sat for a couple of hours, some of the boy racing brigade will love the Type R as its the stereotypical looks at me hot hatch with sub 8 ring time and will never venture near a track
I'm meant to be borrowing one for a decent test and think it will be a hoot for about an hour and novelty will wear off, also seems a bit lardy
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I had a FN2 Civic type R a few years ago. Was sad to see it go. Since having my GTI I have to say how poor the Civic was on the handling front. Lots of understeer. That could be exagerated but the Performance pack on the GTI is pretty impressive, Im looking forward to heading up to Dartmoor soon for a burn.
I quite like the look of the new Type R however I would never own one. Its abit too much for me, I work at a golf club and I can drive my GTI or could drive an R in and the members wouldnt notice them as much as the in your face Honda. Horses for courses, if I was 20 (and could have afforded one, but how many 20 year olds will be able to spend 30K on one) It might have apealed more.
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I got to have a good look round and have a ride in one of these yesterday. I wasn't able to drive it as it's Honda's test mule, but got a pretty good feel about what it's all about from the passenger seat.
One thing is for sure, it's fast. This particular car produced 350 horsepower, whereas the version on sale makes 310. They are looking to produce a model with the power upgrade in the future, so this car is running data logging modules so that they can see if it will last the test of time. Being fast isn't all that tho'. I know that Shaun can pedal a car, but he was really having to fight the torque steer. Pick a line through a sweeping bend, keep it nailed and the grip is phenomenal, but try to adjust things when the suspension is loaded up, and it gets very twitchy. Applying more lock causes the expected understeer and a slight lift will really lighten the rear. It is extremely finely balanced. All of this was in 'R' mode, which sharpens the throttle response and makes the suspension rock hard and very bouncy on the road. This really is a car that's been designed for the track.
The looks are very subjective. The build quality looks good, with tight panel gaps and a reassuring thunk when the doors close, but look a bit closer under the surface and you'll find fixings and plastic moldings that the Japanese where using on cars in the 80's. It's comedy exhaust also made me chuckle. There is a 60ish mm pipe from the turbo that runs through silencers in the usual way to the rear 'axle' it then splits into 2 pipes with a Y section to each side, then tucked up under the diffuser, these modest single pipes connect into the sort of huge twin tail pipes that you's buy from Halfords. I know a lot of cars are like this, but you can see it through the rear wheel arches.
Inside it's Japanese business as usual. The seats are extremely supportive and pretty comfortable, although I'm not sure how they'd feel after 200 miles. The spec level was reasonably high, but this car was the £33k GT spec. As others have mentioned, the £30k standard car is somewhat lacking in creature comforts.
Shaun is a year older that me (I'm 45) and agreed that is is not the sort of car he could live with every day. He gets a company car and will be offered one due to his position, but he said it would not be for him. A weekend now and again maybe, but that's about it. It's target market is those aged between 25 and 35. The sort of people that must have the latest label regardless of what it's actually like, Which just about says it all to me.
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^^
Nice write up :cool:
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agreed ^^^
They've gone all out to outperform the Leon Cupra Sub 8 but completely lost all subtlety. Obviously they're aiming for the sleeve tattoo and baseball cap generation (those sleeves that will date sooooo badly in a few years just like the Civic will) which is good as there's a big market out there (worldwide) and everyone has different wants and needs.
Unfortunately for me I'm slightly older than Shaun too so this car is a no no for me on all levels, but I do respect the tech behind it.
I think it's pipe and slippers for me next time round. A beige Skoda Rapid "not quite an estate or hatchback" is calling me...
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I think it's pipe and slippers for me next time round. A beige Skoda Rapid "not quite an estate or hatchback" is calling me...
I'll believe it when I see it :kiss:
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agreed ^^^
They've gone all out to outperform the Leon Cupra Sub 8 but completely lost all subtlety. Obviously they're aiming for the sleeve tattoo and baseball cap generation (those sleeves that will date sooooo badly in a few years just like the Civic will) which is good as there's a big market out there (worldwide) and everyone has different wants and needs.
Unfortunately for me I'm slightly older than Shaun too so this car is a no no for me on all levels, but I do respect the tech behind it.
I think it's pipe and slippers for me next time round. A beige Skoda Rapid "not quite an estate or hatchback" is calling me...
Don't worry about needing the Rapid. I can fit my rocking chair in the back of my GTI with the rear seats folded, and the pipe goes in one of the under seat drawers. The spare teeth go nicely in the space under the front armrest. When I test drove a GT86 before buying my Golf the salesman said he'd recently sold one to an 86 year old trading in his old Celica.
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Absolutely superb review of the Type R and matches my suspicions
The joys of the ring lap time, for me a car that laps there swiftly in this class is probably for me doesn't have the damping i'd like on a road.
I remember how much stiffening my B16s needed there on the Ed35
New pics of the Clubsport GTI look interesting though
I now a few people who run GT86s, great social scene and always out on track, pure handling maybe but oh so slow, next sprint I'm taking my Polo to see if i can scalp one or two :)
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agreed ^^^
They've gone all out to outperform the Leon Cupra Sub 8 but completely lost all subtlety. Obviously they're aiming for the sleeve tattoo and baseball cap generation (those sleeves that will date sooooo badly in a few years just like the Civic will) which is good as there's a big market out there (worldwide) and everyone has different wants and needs.
Unfortunately for me I'm slightly older than Shaun too so this car is a no no for me on all levels, but I do respect the tech behind it.
I think it's pipe and slippers for me next time round. A beige Skoda Rapid "not quite an estate or hatchback" is calling me...
Don't worry about needing the Rapid. I can fit my rocking chair in the back of my GTI with the rear seats folded, and the pipe goes in one of the under seat drawers. The spare teeth go nicely in the space under the front armrest.
You're talking my language Ant! :grin: :grin:
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I think it would look best in Black.
If only that huge rear spoiler could be chopped off, the red accents on the wheels removed, the excessive red on the steering removed, less red and more black on the seats, an auto box instead of manual, a multilink rear suspension instead of the crappy torsion beam, 4WD instead of wheel spinning FWD, better interior plastics, a slightly softer suspension for real world use, a better Sat Nav ....... then it would be an ok car.
Now what cars does that remind you of?
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The civic clearly appeals to quite a few people though..
Just read in autocar it's now sold out until Feb 2016 !!
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Hopefully the thieves will now move their attention from the R to the Type R. Those four extra letters will make all the difference. They are welcome to that ugly mutt.
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Hopefully the thieves will now move their attention from the R to the Type R. Those four extra letters will make all the difference. They are welcome to that ugly mutt.
Hear, hear!
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When the first concept images came out for the new Type R I was pretty impressed, I really loved the back end and the integrated tail lights into the rear spoiler; but once the final version was announced and I had released they had changed all the best bits of the car I was totally turned off.
(http://cdn1.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/honda-civic-type-r-rear_0.jpg?itok=nAA2LXYl)
(http://95octane.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015_honda_civic_type_r_3.jpg)
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Anyone seen the group test in this month's EVO?
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When the first concept images came out for the new Type R I was pretty impressed, I really loved the back end and the integrated tail lights into the rear spoiler; but once the final version was announced and I had released they had changed all the best bits of the car I was totally turned off.
(http://cdn1.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/honda-civic-type-r-rear_0.jpg?itok=nAA2LXYl)
(http://95octane.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015_honda_civic_type_r_3.jpg)
I have to say I feel the same. It's a case of using the bits you already have rather than producing the impressive feature parts from the concept to cut costs. I too was impressed a little with the Spoiler tail light and the front end also looked way better on the concept than the production model. I absolutely loved the previous type-R's but feel the front end of the latest iteration is almost as ugly if not on par with subaru's. It's a face only a mother could love... :laugh:
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(http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5944/5EVTSB.jpg)
Not as striking as the promotional pictures you see of the Championship White. It's not a true white :undecided:
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(http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5944/5EVTSB.jpg)
Not as striking as the promotional pictures you see of the Championship White. It's not a true white :undecided:
The off white is dingy and those wheel arches are just cheap and plasticky. That's why they are 'promotional' pictures. The reality is a different story and not a great one! :sick:
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(http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5944/5EVTSB.jpg)
Not as striking as the promotional pictures you see of the Championship White. It's not a true white :undecided:
Is this really it? If so I think it looks awful.
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the problem for me is the Civic itself, it's dated now in any guise and where as once, when it was launched, it was actually bold and forward thinking, slowly over the years and particularly with the last facelift it's being toned down, all the so called radical ideas regarding it's interior have gone or become irritating.
I think the price for the Type on is about right, that's what you pay for these sort of cars, Type R, R, Focus RS... I wonder if they are going to bring back the Type S to be more of a GTI rival?
I don't like the looks but I guess many will, I would argue however that's a mess, over styled, over fussy and trying too hard. For me personally, I wouldn't want to drive around in it. Amazing car and it does offer something different if you're after this type hot hatch.
James
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The Championship white is suppose to be a creamy white. It will never compare in brightness to the pure almost brilliant whites used by german manufacturers. The reason it looks dated is because it is... It harks back to the original colour used on the first F1 car produced by Honda, I think in the 1960's but I might be wrong. So it's more about heritage than being modern. I don't mind the colour, seeing as I owned a completely Championship white Type-R (including the wheels). It was a pig to clean, but looked greate when clean. However not as spanking as Oryx White which is awesome to look at in the right light. I much prefer the finish and simplicity of VW's now, The styling is too much on the latest Civic... It's almost like they have over styled it. :smiley:
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I didnt realise that it had lost the cool brake lights in the wing, thats a deal breaker for me, looks too bolt on now and where the feck are the vents in the rear arches?
Even the exhaust doesnt look shiny and chrome now?
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Agree with Brenbo - absolutely.
The problem with so much 'bold design' in cars is that it does date, remember the Astra GTE in the 1980's and it's LCD dash?
VW has done well to be 'conservative' - ultimately all bold and daring styling dates quickly and VW has done well to gradually evolve it's cars and in turn the brand. Every incarnation of the Golf has its fans and whilst looking similar or connected, keeps it's own identity and its following.
In 2016 or 2017 - there will be anew Civic, possibly it will look completely different to this one and then this when will be pretty much forgotten.
James
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I think most of the vents turned out to be fake didn't they?
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Let me start by saying I don't like this car.
The problem with the current Civic is that it's fugly to start with. Once you start adding massive spoilers, rear wings, plastic wheel arches and the like its got no chance. All that extra plastic makes it look like an aftermarket hobbyist has been tinkering away in his shed. And not in a good way.
In terms of looks these sorts of cars are not for me, Focus RS's, Evo's, Impreza WRX etc.. too loud and lary for my taste. That's why I admire just how subtle the Golf R looks for all its performance and power. Quite bold of VW's designers but they know their audience. Still would have liked to have seen twin central exhausts (like Mk5 R32 and Mk6 R) instead of the uninspiring trend for quad pipes. It's too much for a 2 litre four pot. Twin centrals marked it out as an 'Racing' model in my eyes. If you're driving a 6.75 litre V8 twin turbo 500 bhp AMG then maybe you can get away with quad pipes :wink:
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VW has done well to be 'conservative' - ultimately all bold and daring styling dates quickly and VW has done well to gradually evolve it's cars and in turn the brand. Every incarnation of the Golf has its fans and whilst looking similar or connected, keeps it's own identity and its following.
True, but a lot of people think they're incredibly bland, myself included. There is nothing daring or brave about the way VW designs cars, which is a shame. The Golf R in particular has been almost universally praised for it's performance, but to look at it's as boring as it gets. Honda have designed a car with a singular purpose with the looks to match, and perhaps understandably VW buyers can't comprehend that. Subtlety has it's place, but is that place really a 300bhp hot hatch?
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VW has done well to be 'conservative' - ultimately all bold and daring styling dates quickly and VW has done well to gradually evolve it's cars and in turn the brand. Every incarnation of the Golf has its fans and whilst looking similar or connected, keeps it's own identity and its following.
True, but a lot of people think they're incredibly bland, myself included. There is nothing daring or brave about the way VW designs cars, which is a shame. The Golf R in particular has been almost universally praised for it's performance, but to look at it's as boring as it gets. Honda have designed a car with a singular purpose with the looks to match, and perhaps understandably VW buyers can't comprehend that. Subtlety has it's place, but is that place really a 300bhp hot hatch?
Completely agree. There's no doubt that the R is a fantastic car to drive but the looks are incredibly sterile and uninspiring. A hothatch imo should be screaming 'look at me'. It can be done in a tasteful way but VW could certainly have tried harder and made it look and sound more aggressive.
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Subtlety has it's place, but is that place really a 300bhp hot hatch?
Why not? For those who like to make progress under the radar, the .:R is the perfect car with few compromises. For other stealthy alternatives there are really only sports saloons, but then you are in another price bracket.
There is a wide array of hot hatches for sale, from look at me shouty, to hardly noticeable to choose from. For people that want the brashness, I'd suggest they look elsewhere.
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Subtlety has it's place, but is that place really a 300bhp hot hatch?
Why not? For those who like to make progress under the radar, the .:R is the perfect car with few compromises. For other stealthy alternatives there are really only sports saloons, but then you are in another price bracket.
There is a wide array of hot hatches for sale, from look at me shouty, to hardly noticeable to choose from. For people that want the brashness, I'd suggest they look elsewhere.
R400?
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had this debate at the car clinic i went to with a young wannabe hipster in his liquid yellow Megane RS bought for its 0-60, ring prowess and its shouty looks, i then pointed out in the traffic light grand prix he would be toasted
under the radar suits me, given my profession i do not think the brash sits well and they would think some crisis was occurring
having had one of those family emergency calls this week i was very grateful for the understated R
in fairness the GTI has always been wonderfully understated
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Why not? For those who like to make progress under the radar, the .:R is the perfect car with few compromises. For other stealthy alternatives there are really only sports saloons, but then you are in another price bracket.
There is a wide array of hot hatches for sale, from look at me shouty, to hardly noticeable to choose from. For people that want the brashness, I'd suggest they look elsewhere.
Absolutely why not?
I can appreciate 'shouty, look at me hot hatches' and actually have a bit of a soft spot for them for what they are, but do I want to drive one? No. Do I want to drive a hatch that doesn't compromise on performance but is otherwise subtle, understated, and in many ways classless. Yes.
Performance aside, it's a question of what image you wish to portray.
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VW has done well to be 'conservative' - ultimately all bold and daring styling dates quickly and VW has done well to gradually evolve it's cars and in turn the brand. Every incarnation of the Golf has its fans and whilst looking similar or connected, keeps it's own identity and its following.
True, but a lot of people think they're incredibly bland, myself included. There is nothing daring or brave about the way VW designs cars, which is a shame. The Golf R in particular has been almost universally praised for it's performance, but to look at it's as boring as it gets. Honda have designed a car with a singular purpose with the looks to match, and perhaps understandably VW buyers can't comprehend that. Subtlety has it's place, but is that place really a 300bhp hot hatch?
I don't think I really explained myself in the post - what I meant is that VW has built it's reputation/heritage ons styling that evolves rather than makes giant leaps - having brands like Seat under its umbrella means this can be left to other brands.
I agree - styling is bland at times - for example as a former VW T5 California owner, I find the new VW T6 a complete let down.
Vw sell a lot on heritage - you buy into the Golf, the Beetle is a classic etc etc - buy a VW California and they trip over themselves to mention their camper heritage. When they launch a new car - they mention that, this is the such and such generation. That heritage in part is fostered and maintained by design that evolves.
The hot hatch market is crowded - I applaud Honda for building the Civic as they have, there has to be a place within a crowded segment for different takes on a similar recipe.
But i don't like it - not because I am a VW owner/buyer and I can't comprehend, I just don't like it, I think the Civic itself is an awful design, for example the high set heavy waist which makes the wheels look tiny. This is made worse on the Type R - the type of car you really don't want the wheels to look tiny.
I find the R - in the metal - a far more handsome vehicle, there is a sense of class about it, which I find on the GTI's and GTD's - they have a confidence because they are not shouty, and that appeals. But I don't want every warm/hot hyper hatch to look the same and I think it's great each car maker can inject some personality and difference into these cars, what's right for one, won't be right for another and that's how it should be.
James
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I find the R - in the metal - a far more handsome vehicle, there is a sense of class about it, which I find on the GTI's and GTD's - they have a confidence because they are not shouty, and that appeals. But I don't want every warm/hot hyper hatch to look the same and I think it's great each car maker can inject some personality and difference into these cars, what's right for one, won't be right for another and that's how it should be.
James
I agree, the Golf performance models do have an air of class about them but at the same time somehow they defy social class. I mean in the sense that all models of Golf share the same evolutionary design, with the performance models having the subtle design cues as to their intent and all important nods to past heritage, which subtly mark them out from the standard Golf family. You only have to look at the well known VW photo which shows all marks from 1 through to 7 lined up. That demonstrates the design ethos perfectly. I doubt many of the generations of shouty hot hatches would fare so well in a similar phtoshoot. It would be interesting to see their versions of such a photo though. :laugh:
And because of the sublety of design it, the Golf, be it GTI/GTD/R really is an 'everyman' car. Equally at home across the class spectrum.
But if that's not your thing, there's the Civic Type R's of this world!
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Said photo.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/dubber36/AE1F449B55439D7D5AF38B9B1991.jpg) (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/dubber36/media/AE1F449B55439D7D5AF38B9B1991.jpg.html)
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The MK3 is definitely the mutt of the bunch, and a bit of a rust bucket - I see far more tidier MK2s still on the road than MK3s. My mate had a MK3 and the bodywork was rotten at 7 years old.
My order of preference is :-
MK2 > MK7 > MK5 > MK1 > MK4 > MK6 > MK3
Cars have come a long way - I doubt i'd want to live with a MK2 every day, even though it is my favourite Golf relative to the time I had one.
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The MK3 is definitely the mutt of the bunch, and a bit of a rust bucket - I see far more tidier MK2s still on the road than MK3s. My mate had a MK3 and the bodywork was rotten at 7 years old.
My order of preference is :-
MK2 > MK7 > MK5 > MK1 > MK4 > MK6 > MK3
Cars have come a long way - I doubt i'd want to live with a MK2 every day, even though it is my favourite Golf relative to the time I had one.
That would be my list - particularly fond of MK5's - never owned one but always like them.
James
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Mk4 surely last, it was awful and the GTI was a trim level. Plus it's one of the chav cars of choice.
I have owned the mk5, 6 and 7 and have a soft spot for the mk2.
Loved the mk5 as it was VW's return to form with the GTI, plus the first 200bhp car I owned.
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Mk4 surely last, it was awful and the GTI was a trim level. Plus it's one of the chav cars of choice.
I have owned the mk5, 6 and 7 and have a soft spot for the mk2.
Loved the mk5 as it was VW's return to form with the GTI, plus the first 200bhp car I owned.
The MK4 was a well built car, but the GTI trim level was a bit of a joke.
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I had a mk3 and was not a classic, does make me smile the amount of these pimped up at Inters
Mk4 Anniversary and later 180bhp cars were the only saving grace, thats when they sold more diesel GTIs than petrol
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I'd probably put Mk3 last, with Mk2 and Mk5 vying for top spot. Loved the Mk5 so much I had two of them. Not favourite with many but I do like the Mk6 too. I used to hate Mk4s but have come to really like them in the last few years! I'll reserve judgement on the mk7 till I have got my own and have become intimately familiar with it's lines (through the medium of waxing) :laugh:
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I'm a huge fan of the MK5 too. I had a mk5 GTI, I loved that car. There was a raw-ness and sense of occasion about driving it that is definitely toned down in the MK7. The Mk7 is undoubtedly a far better more modern car but all the extra refinement and comfort has inevitably dulled the "raw" feeling somewhat - hence the need for the controversial sound actuator!
The MK4's build quality was literally skin deep only! Some awful build quality issues plagued the mk4's! All the soft touch interior plastics masked a fairly poor car under the covers. The MK1 Ford Focus beat it hands down (interior touchy-feely plastics apart).
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I'm a huge fan of the MK5 too. I had a mk5 GTI, I loved that car. There was a raw-ness and sense of occasion about driving it that is definitely toned down in the MK7. The Mk7 is undoubtedly a far better more modern car but all the extra refinement and comfort has inevitably dulled the "raw" feeling somewhat - hence the need for the controversial sound actuator!
The MK4's build quality was literally skin deep only! Some awful build quality issues plagued the mk4's! All the soft touch interior plastics masked a fairly poor car under the covers. The MK1 Ford Focus beat it hands down (interior touchy-feely plastics apart).
My Dad drove a MK4 130PS TDI DSG (it was a Maltese import via a broker - you couldn't get that engine on the Golf in the UK with DSG officially unless you went for an Estate) for 140k miles and it never missed a beat. It still looked quite tidy when he gave it to my sister and she ran it for 2 years. It had a catastrophic engine failure when one of my schoolmates working at a local independent garage changed the timing belt (not on my recommendation - he is an idiot) and the new one snapped shortly after.
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I have owned the mk5, 6 and 7 and have a soft spot for the mk2.
Loved the mk5 as it was VW's return to form with the GTI, plus the first 200bhp car I owned.
It's like I wrote that myself. I always look back on MK5 with fondness as it was my 1st GTI and a great car.
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My first Golf was a Mk3 VR6 which I got in early 1993. Dreadful car with a great engine. I returned to the dealers with problems most months. Got tired of it and ordered an Audi A4 when they came out, and never owned another VW until now.
However, the dealer was really good at handling the situation so I went back to them 20 years later to buy my current car as the same family is still in charge!
My Golf series preference would be 7-2-5-1-4-3
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To these people that have a Mk2 pretty high up their preference list...why haven't you got one?
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To these people that have a Mk2 pretty high up their preference list...why haven't you got one?
Time, or lack thereof. Would love one, but only got time for one car in my life. :cry:
Seems pretty conclusive the Mk3 is deemed the runt of the litter!
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The R is completely understated against some of its rivals (Type R, Focus RS) - however, as an accountant I can't turn up to a clients in one of those other cars mentioned, it screams boy racer/chav (albeit a rich chav) and no one will take you seriously, especially when you're discussing their personal/business finances - therefore, for me, it suits my life and my job. I agree it should have been a little more aggressive (front end in particular), but you don't see the front of the car when you're nailing it so its a minor quibble! If I could get away with having a Focus RS then I would be tempted, but the Type R is horrible outside and even worse inside, I don't care how quick it is :sick:
As for the old golfs, the Mk 5 will always hold a special place for me as it was my first brand new GTI. I actually know the people I sold it to, and saw it the other day - wheels totally f-ed, never cleaned, dirty inside - breaks my heart as looked after that car better than I looked after myself :cry:
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Would a rich chav drive an R, I'm not so sure? There are other cars more suited to them :whistle:
I think many of us have a special place in our hearts for the Mk5, as it was 'the return' to the real GTI, and seems to have been many people's first foray into GTI world. Technically it wasn't my first, that dubious honour goes to a Pug 206 GTI, but I consider the Mk5 to be my first 'real' GTI. I still miss it! This pretty much sums it up for me:
...there was a raw-ness and sense of occasion about driving it...
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To these people that have a Mk2 pretty high up their preference list...why haven't you got one?
Space and not many around in a condition like yours, i'm hankering for a Rallye as i think they have aged well
Would a rich chav drive an R, I'm not so sure? There are other cars more suited to them :whistle:
I think many of us have a special place in our hearts for the Mk5, as it was 'the return' to the real GTI, and seems to have been many people's first foray into GTI world. Technically it wasn't my first, that dubious honour goes to a Pug 206 GTI, but I consider the Mk5 to be my first 'real' GTI. I still miss it! This pretty much sums it up for me:
...there was a raw-ness and sense of occasion about driving it...
The lack of red brake callipers, crashy ride and over the top instrument displays would put them off and the lack of a tea tray on the boot to place ones energy drink
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duplicate post - please delete
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Would a rich chav drive an R, I'm not so sure? There are other cars more suited to them :whistle:
The lack of red brake callipers, crashy ride and over the top instrument displays would put them off and the lack of a tea tray on the boot to place ones energy drink
:grin: :grin: Very true! No Red Bull spoiler, no likey!
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To these people that have a Mk2 pretty high up their preference list...why haven't you got one?
Good point! However, I have been looking at Mk1 Sciroccos recently, but £13k for a 1980 Storm was a little too much, especially in light metallic green - I really want a metallic blue or silver one, just as I did when they were new and just too expensive for me to buy - I had to settle for an Alfasud Sprint Veloce, but always wanted a Scirocco.
Once the Scirocco itch has been scratched, a Mk2 big bumper GTI 16V would be next!
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My Golf series preference would be 7-2-5-1-4-3
The Mk6 doesn't even get a look in :laugh:
Would a rich chav drive an R, I'm not so sure? There are other cars more suited to them :whistle:
I like the R's and am really tempted but down my way it is all baseball cap wearing youngsters that are driving them. Probably as a result of the cheap lease deals. A car certainly does portray your image and that's not the image I'd like to be seen as. Nor do I think it is the image VW wants.
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The Mk6 doesn't even get a look in :laugh:
I like the R's and am really tempted but down my way it is all baseball cap wearing youngsters that are driving them. Probably as a result of the cheap lease deals. A car certainly does portray your image and that's not the image I'd like to be seen as. Nor do I think it is the image VW wants.
Poor unloved Mk6 :cry:
If you order an R now, by the time it comes the local chavs will have come to the end of their cheap leases and have moved onto the Civic Type R and it's ilk. Or, you could move :tongue:
Cheapleasegate has a lot to answer for :rolleyes:
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I've owned at least two models on every platform of Golf I'm slightly embarrassed to admit.
If you count the mk1 Scirocco as a mk1 Golf that is; and also a Leon Cupra 180 as a mk4 Golf.
So make that two mk1's (white 1.8 GTI and mk1 1.6 Scirocco GTI which was my first car)
Four mk2's, three 8v and one 16v
Two mk3's (both VR6) and an Ibiza GTI which is basically a mk3 GTI front end and probably the best 'fun' car of that generation before the Lupo GTI arrived on the scene.
One mk4 GTI and one Leon Cupra 180 (remapped the pair of them, the GTI was pants without remap and suspension but the Leon cut the mustard as a standard car)
One mk5 GT TDI and then a GTI
Two mk6 GTI's and...
A mk7 GTI and R
Which is best? Each needs to be taken into context with its generation but the fact I've owned four mk2 Golf GTI's says a lot!
Most fun? Probably the mk1, but add a couple of passengers and suddenly the power to weight means its no longer a quick car. The Scirocco was pretty but pretty crap!
mk2 the best built by a good margin, but even they had rust issues from a young age. Heavy to drive without power steering which few had until the very last ones. I think a lot of people have rose tinted specs for these cars.
mk3 not as bad as you think so long as you put firmer dampers on. The interior and bodywork was not built to last.
mk4 a nice Golf with its 'easy peel' luxury interior but not a good GTI
Leon Cupra was a pretty good car, I missed that one when it was gone.
mk5 TDI was a nice Golf but once I modified it there were quite a lot of shortcomings.
mk5 GTI was a great car, still miss that one.
mk6 GTI? Really good car but the GTD was a better package.
mk7's? Current technology and in many ways the best performance Golfs but not the best built - you can't have it all ways and it will be interesting to see how I look back on my mk7's. I've been really impressed with both so far, the GTI a highly underrated car and the R is the spiritual successor to the mk5 GTI.
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Back on topic: :tongue: :laugh:
The Sat Nav in the Type R is utter rubbish it sems. Very slow and gets confused.
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My Golf series preference would be 7-2-5-1-4-3
The Mk6 doesn't even get a look in :laugh:
My bad...
7-2-5-1-6-4-3
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Interesting how a lot of the sentiment on this thread is similar.
I also regretted selling my mk5 and actually tried to buy back a few months later but it didn't pan out.
VW nailed the special edition mk5's and should have owned one at some point but never pulled the trigger. Held their value incredibly well to boot.
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The best quote from your latest missive Mr Ex!
...and the R is the spiritual successor to the mk5 GTI.
:cool:
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The best quote from your latest missive Mr Ex!
...and the R is the spiritual successor to the mk5 GTI.
:cool:
:nerd: :kiss:
Back on topic...
... what was the topic again?
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The best quote from your latest missive Mr Ex!
...and the R is the spiritual successor to the mk5 GTI.
:cool:
:nerd: :kiss:
Back on topic...
... what was the topic again?
Something about some Lego car...
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I am going to eat humble pie with this post. Have egg over my face.
Popped into my local Honda dealer today. They had 4 Type Rs in the showroom. One blue, two black and one Red. Two other available colours are Grey and White which they did not have.
I liked the Red and Black the most and veer towards Black which was truly a breath taking sight. Perhaps the Grey would also be great. But the Blue looked all wrong. White will always be 100% not for me.
Now what can I say. Pictures don't do this car justice. It really is something else. Quite fabulous looking and so beautifully finished. Panel fit is simply perfect. Paint finish is about the best I have seen. The interior is also superb contrary to what some reviewers have written. Light years ahead of VW in fit and finish both inside and outside. Like a high quality Swiss Watch. The front seats are superbly comfortable. So much room in the back. I can go on and on with the plaudits ......
I just loved it, spoilers and all. Such perfect finish. If only it came with an Auto Box, it would be my next car, no doubt. Even the guys at VW who are on the same road were praising it to High Heaven. A proper car they called it!
I am organising a test drive.
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But it will age hideously as have previous Type R's
It will end up looking like Homer Simpson's car !!
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b632/Jlb01/image.jpg1_zps8mhdp9gc.jpg) (http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Jlb01/media/image.jpg1_zps8mhdp9gc.jpg.html)
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This way to the Honda forum ➡️
You have not succeded in turning this place into Bimmerpost 2 yet, try as you might, so over to Honda....(only jesting :kiss:)
Most cars look better in the flesh (there are exceptions) and I reckon if you only wanted to hang onto it for a couple years max it would be fine, but any longer and it's still going to look dated quite quickly.
But if it drives superbly that might all be a mute point. Look forward to your musings after the test drive. :smiley:
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I really don't care about how a car ages as I don't keep a car for more than 3 years. Once the 2 year mark has passed, I treat a car like junk as I am looking forward to my next car. The only car I did not feel like this about was my BMW.
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Mk7 forum :whistle:
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After seeing the Honda Type Rs and seeing a brand new GTI (in fabulous Carbon Grey) and the white R, the difference in build quality was really surprising. The VWs seem to be thrown together in comparison. Mine, thankfully, is now pretty damned good after much fettling, though there are still two more minor things to attend to.
Many of the posters on this forum would be up in arms at this assessment of mine. But what I saw, I saw. Even the guys at VW were pretty mesmerised with the Type R's superb build quality and finish. So was I. A British built car trumping those arrogant Germans with a vengeance. Good on you Honda in Swindon. Good on you UK!
So if Honda can do it, so can VW. Or can they? I for one am not too sure anymore.
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After seeing the Honda Type Rs and seeing a brand new GTI (in fabulous Carbon Grey) and the white R, the difference in build quality was really surprising. The VWs seem to be thrown together in comparison. Mine, thankfully, is now pretty damned good after much fettling, though there are still two more minor things to attend to.
Many of the posters on this forum would be up in arms at this assessment of mine. But what I saw, I saw. Even the guys at VW were pretty mesmerised with the Type R's superb build quality and finish. So was I. A British built car trumping those arrogant Germans with a vengeance. Good on you Honda in Swindon. Good on you UK!
So if Honda can do it, so can VW. Or can they? I for one am not too sure anymore.
Well, it's taking a very long time for VW to throw my bloody R together. The time it's taking I expect it to have been hand crafted by Archangels.
I don't disbelieve you about the quality of the Type R, but I think many would want to see it for themselves to believe it. I hope it is as well built as you say. The Germans have become very complacent, resting on their laurels and past reputation. They need something to shake them up. Maybe this is it?
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After seeing the Honda Type Rs and seeing a brand new GTI (in fabulous Carbon Grey) and the white R, the difference in build quality was really surprising. The VWs seem to be thrown together in comparison. Mine, thankfully, is now pretty damned good after much fettling, though there are still two more minor things to attend to.
Many of the posters on this forum would be up in arms at this assessment of mine. But what I saw, I saw. Even the guys at VW were pretty mesmerised with the Type R's superb build quality and finish. So was I. A British built car trumping those arrogant Germans with a vengeance. Good on you Honda in Swindon. Good on you UK!
So if Honda can do it, so can VW. Or can they? I for one am not too sure anymore.
Well, it's taking a very long time for VW to throw my bloody R together. The time it's taking I expect it to have been hand crafted by Archangels.
I don't disbelieve you about the quality of the Type R, but I think many would want to see it for themselves to believe it. I hope it is as well built as you say. The Germans have become very complacent, resting on their laurels and past reputation. They need something to shake them up. Maybe this is it?
I love your turn of phrase! :smiley:
Indeed angels will need to intervene to speed up your build and make it a decent one at that. Fingers and everything relevant crossed for you.
Nothing it seems will shake those arrogant and self congratulatory Germans. They are as was for the last 100 years and will continue on their merry and hardened way at the expense of others.
I, for one, am not enamoured by them for a variety of reasons, many of which you know.
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Well, it's taking a very long time for VW to throw my bloody R together. The time it's taking I expect it to have been hand crafted by Archangels.
I don't disbelieve you about the quality of the Type R, but I think many would want to see it for themselves to believe it. I hope it is as well built as you say. The Germans have become very complacent, resting on their laurels and past reputation. They need something to shake them up. Maybe this is it?
I love your turn of phrase! :smiley:
Indeed angels will need to intervene to speed up your build and make it a decent one at that. Fingers and everything relevant crossed for you.
Nothing it seems will shake those arrogant and self congratulatory Germans. They are as was for the last 100 years and will continue on their merry and hardened way at the expense of others.
I, for one, am not enamoured by them.
Divine intervention is indeed required where my R is concerned. I may yet beat MH's epic wait.
I will reserve judgement on the build quality until I get it but am expecting it to be of a lower standard than the Mk6.
Only a massive slump in sales might make the Germans sit up but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Not if we keep buying them :whistle:
I do indeed know the reasons for your less than accommodating attitude towards the Germans, and am with you on some of them.
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Well, it's taking a very long time for VW to throw my bloody R together. The time it's taking I expect it to have been hand crafted by Archangels.
I don't disbelieve you about the quality of the Type R, but I think many would want to see it for themselves to believe it. I hope it is as well built as you say. The Germans have become very complacent, resting on their laurels and past reputation. They need something to shake them up. Maybe this is it?
I love your turn of phrase! :smiley:
Indeed angels will need to intervene to speed up your build and make it a decent one at that. Fingers and everything relevant crossed for you.
Nothing it seems will shake those arrogant and self congratulatory Germans. They are as was for the last 100 years and will continue on their merry and hardened way at the expense of others.
I, for one, am not enamoured by them for a variety of reasons, many of which you know. .
Divine intervention is indeed required where my R is concerned. I may yet beat MH's epic wait.
I will reserve judgement on the build quality until I get it but am expecting it to be of a lower standard than the Mk6.
Only a massive slump in sales might make the Germans sit up but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Not if we keep buying them :whistle:
We can but live in hope that Honda (they are starting to), Alfa (the new Giulia and Giulietta), Renault (new Megane) and Peugeot (308 GTI) will up their game, though unfortunately it might take a long time. Here's hoping ........
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Well, it's taking a very long time for VW to throw my bloody R together. The time it's taking I expect it to have been hand crafted by Archangels.
I don't disbelieve you about the quality of the Type R, but I think many would want to see it for themselves to believe it. I hope it is as well built as you say. The Germans have become very complacent, resting on their laurels and past reputation. They need something to shake them up. Maybe this is it?
I love your turn of phrase! :smiley:
Indeed angels will need to intervene to speed up your build and make it a decent one at that. Fingers and everything relevant crossed for you.
Nothing it seems will shake those arrogant and self congratulatory Germans. They are as was for the last 100 years and will continue on their merry and hardened way at the expense of others.
I, for one, am not enamoured by them for a variety of reasons, many of which you know. .
Divine intervention is indeed required where my R is concerned. I may yet beat MH's epic wait.
I will reserve judgement on the build quality until I get it but am expecting it to be of a lower standard than the Mk6.
Only a massive slump in sales might make the Germans sit up but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Not if we keep buying them :whistle:
We can but live in hope that Honda (they are starting to), Alfa (the new Giulia and Giulietta), Renault (new Megane) and Peugeot (308 GTI) will up their game, though unfortunately it might take a long time. Here's hoping ........
It will take a long, long time. Something else to hope for!
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Well, it's taking a very long time for VW to throw my bloody R together. The time it's taking I expect it to have been hand crafted by Archangels.
I don't disbelieve you about the quality of the Type R, but I think many would want to see it for themselves to believe it. I hope it is as well built as you say. The Germans have become very complacent, resting on their laurels and past reputation. They need something to shake them up. Maybe this is it?
I love your turn of phrase! :smiley:
Indeed angels will need to intervene to speed up your build and make it a decent one at that. Fingers and everything relevant crossed for you.
Nothing it seems will shake those arrogant and self congratulatory Germans. They are as was for the last 100 years and will continue on their merry and hardened way at the expense of others.
I, for one, am not enamoured by them for a variety of reasons, many of which you know. .
Divine intervention is indeed required where my R is concerned. I may yet beat MH's epic wait.
I will reserve judgement on the build quality until I get it but am expecting it to be of a lower standard than the Mk6.
Only a massive slump in sales might make the Germans sit up but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Not if we keep buying them :whistle:
We can but live in hope that Honda (they are starting to), Alfa (the new Giulia and Giulietta), Renault (new Megane) and Peugeot (308 GTI) will up their game, though unfortunately it might take a long time. Here's hoping ........
It will take a long, long time. Something else to hope for!
Hope is a good thing and it all we have to look forward to in this troubled world.
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Hope is a good thing and it all we have to look forward to in this troubled world.
:smiley: