GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: am1w on 10 April 2015, 20:41
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Today, I had a chance to compare the external build quality of my 5 door R (15 Plate), another 5 door R (64 Plate) in DBP, and two S3 Sportbacks (both 64 Plates) which were in metallic black. The cars were parked on my street and I wish I had taken some photos, but could not find my iPhone. I had left it switched off and it was under some cushions. So could not ring it to locate it. Damn.
Anyway, I must categorically state that the Audi S3s have superior build quality.The fit of the panels, the consistent gaps, the perfectly aligned doors and the quality of the paint trump the R by some margin.
Both Rs had badly hung front doors with the passenger front doors being the worst offenders, needing to be recessed a bit as the top trailing edges in the region of the weather strip being a bit proud. Both S3 Sportbacks had doors that were perfectly hung.
Both Rs had significantly more orange peel than the S3s which had a very flat, luscious paint finish. Most impressive.
The R in DBP had Vienna Leather seats which looked a bit baggy, creased and shiny. My cloth seats so far are still pristine, after I fixed them by steaming the Alcantara bits and also as they have been hardly used. I wonder how they will wear? One S3 had black leather seats and the other had beige leather seats and both looked pristine with no creases or bagginess. The S3s have a truly beautiful interior.
My neighbours found my antics quite amusing.
One thing in the R's favour is that I find it to be much better looking. It looks sporty and not frumpy like the S3 Sportback. My neighbours also felt the same. They probably did not want to upset me!
Thought I should share this and sorry to burst your R bubble.
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Maybe the Audi's already had their doors realigned :laugh:
I agree with the paint. I think VW are really bad for orange peel.
My cloth seats so far are still pristine as they have been hardly used. I wonder how they will wear?
I think you have been drinking too much of the hard stuff Asker or your mental health has started to deteriorate :shocked:
How can your cloth seats still be in pristine condition when you posted this just the other day?
Today, I had a go at removing slight puckering/bagginess from the front cloth seats.
(1) Driver's Seat: One seat base bolster along the top ridge was slightly puckered. A damp cloth and a steam iron sorted this.
(2) Passenger Front Seat: One section of the Alcantara on the seat base was a bit baggy. Application of a damp cloth and a bit of steam sorted this.
Now better than when new!
:undecided: :undecided:
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Bonkers.
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Maybe the Audi's already had their doors realigned :laugh:
I agree with the paint. I think VW are really bad for orange peel.
My cloth seats so far are still pristine after I fixed them by steaming the Alcantara bits and also as they have been hardly used. I wonder how they will wear?
I think you have been drinking too much of the hard stuff Asker or your mental health has started to deteriorate :shocked:
How can your cloth seats still be in pristine condition when you posted this just the other day?
Today, I had a go at removing slight puckering/bagginess from the front cloth seats.
(1) Driver's Seat: One seat base bolster along the top ridge was slightly puckered. A damp cloth and a steam iron sorted this.
(2) Passenger Front Seat: One section of the Alcantara on the seat base was a bit baggy. Application of a damp cloth and a bit of steam sorted this.
Now better than when new!
:undecided: :undecided:
Fixed this omission in my post. Thanks for following me so closely. Most appreciated. :rolleyes:
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I can't say I noticed better paint on the Audi (finish) when I was paying the S3 close scrutiny and contemplating a change of order around Nov (following the R's big GFV drop). My boss' boss' Sepang S5 is peppered with paint chips that would indicate it is no more resilient than VW paint (and it doesn't do many miles either). I really can't imagine Audi's paint being any better from a chemical composition point of view nor better applied.
The whole spraying and IR oven curing process is automated, I can't imagine Audi having better spray booths than VW, especially the flagship Wolfsburg plant which is bang up to date. The only way I can think of that VW could be suffering more orange peel is if the throughput is too fast in the paintshop, thick coats upon thick coats with insufficient drying. When I look at the finish of my GTD from an orange peel point of view, I think it's as good as anything else mainstream out there - have you seen the state of current/new Honda and BMWs for orange peel lately? For VW to be rushing the painting, the painting process would logically have to be the limiting step in building a VW (I wouldn't know if that is the case).
Due to the Aluminium doors being so light on their hinges, the S3 doors feel a bit cheap (it's weird how we perceive heaviness with quality - I have a titanium watch that I don't like the "feel" of when handling it off the wrist for similar reasons). Perception only (aluminum is good, and despite being lighter than the VW doors, a quick tap had them sounding a little thicker), but I have had no issues with hang or panel gaps on my GTD.
I don't think there are any pecking order/grades of workmanship from VW and Audi plants, they'd surely attempt to build them all to the same standards with same level of training to personnel. do we really expect Ingoldstadt Audi cars to be built better than Hungarian Audis, in turn better built than Wolfsburg VWs, in turn better built than Spanish VW Polos, in turn better built than Portuguese VW Scirocco/EOS etc?
There are some shared plants between VAG too, would a spanish built Audi Q3 have had more attention lavished on it than a Polo or Ibiza built at the same plant, or have been painted with a different process?
If you're looking to see something "premium" for the badge, you'll see it (and ignore/not look for something that the VW might be doing better).
The most impressive thing for me on the MK7 vs previous VWs I have owned is the consistently small and tidy panel gaps, very impressed bythe bodywork (except bumpers being a slightly different shade, but I see that on plenty of other marques, depending upon the colour - darker shades, especially metallics seem more opaque on the black bumper and less likely to suffer from this)
There are pennies between an R and an S3 (about £800/2.5%), and if Audi pays it's workforce more than VW pays theirs for a supposedly better job done, you'd expect less money to have gone into the actual car (materials) if costs between the 2 finished articles are pretty much the same.
The quality of the standard leather on the S3 didn't impress me any more than VW's nappa options either, although the dash looks a little more premium in a minimalist kind of way (with the flip up screen not deployed - looks a real afterthought eyesore when it is).
For me there was nowt between the 2 cars - a matter of slightly better materials used in the interior (softer lower dash/lower door card plastics and standard nappa leather) vs standard equipment separating the 2 beyond external looks.
Knowing your car and the slight niggles it may or may not have had at delivery (that slight door catch adjustment that needs doing) vs a cursory look at your neighbour's cars and not knowing if they've had some remedial tweaking after collection may not be a completely fair appraisal of VW build quality vs Audi build quality. With the exception of the plants that make the truly high end and low volume VAG cars (like the Phaeton in Dresden's "glass" factory), i'd expect QA/QC and building standards to be pretty uniform across all plants.
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Thought I should share this and sorry to burst your R bubble.
I'll reserve judgement until I'm in possession of an R.
People who spec cloth always whinge on about leather being saggy, creased etc, as if they're justifying to themselves why they didn't spec it. ETTO :wink:
There's always a trade off - superior quality interior on the Audi, but looks so boring and bland, like it's given up on life. R much better looking but less premium cabin. Know which one gets my vote.
Perhaps you are looking too hard for faults, give the car a chance, drive it and enjoy it :smiley:
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I wrote the post after what I observed today and when I saw a couple of 5 door GTIs at the Dealership. I really don't care that much as my car is leased cheaply, as I would never pay good money for a non-premium VW.
I just don't understand why people are being so excessively defensive and over protective over a throwaway non-premium depreciating asset.
It's only a Golf, albeit a fast and good one. But it is still a Golf. Just remember that.
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I wrote the post after what I observed today and when I saw a couple of 5 door GTIs at the Dealership. I really don't care that much as my car is leased cheaply, as I would never pay good money for a non-premium VW.
I just don't understand why people are being so excessively defensive and over protective over a throwaway non-premium depreciating asset.
It's only a Golf, albeit a fast and good one. But it is still a Golf. Just remember that.
Who's being excessively defence and protective :huh:
Of course it's just a Golf, most of us aren't elevating it to God-like status (this is not the R Forum you know). And because it is just a (fast-ish) Golf, it's perhaps not surprising there may be a few niggles, but I suspect if you'd leased an Audi you'd be posting a similar observation on an Audi forum.
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I wrote the post after what I observed today and when I saw a couple of 5 door GTIs at the Dealership. I really don't care that much as my car is leased cheaply, as I would never pay good money for a non-premium VW.
I just don't understand why people are being so excessively defensive and over protective over a throwaway non-premium depreciating asset.
It's only a Golf, albeit a fast and good one. But it is still a Golf. Just remember that.
Who's being excessively defence and protective :huh:
Of course it's just a Golf, most of us aren't elevating it to God-like status (this is not the R Forum you know). And because it is just a (fast-ish) Golf, it's perhaps not surprising there may be a few niggles, but I suspect if you'd leased an Audi you'd be posting a similar observation on an Audi forum.
It is always good to pre-empt.
I was going to buy an Audi S3 Sportback or a BMW M235i, but the cheap R lease deal swayed me. I am glad I did as the R is an excellent car which I do like very much. However, I feel there is nothing amiss in pointing out its few faults which is par of the course with most mass produced cars.
I'll go over it with an even finer tooth comb tomorrow and try and discover a few more niggles. :laugh:
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It is always good to pre-empt.
I was going to buy an Audi S3 Sportback or a BMW M235i, but the cheap R lease deal swayed me. I am glad I did as the R is an excellent car which I do like very much. However, I feel there is nothing amiss in pointing out its few faults which is par of the course with most mass produced cars.
No problem with people pointing out faults, in fact it's helpful to know about things like the door issue. Give it a few months and I might be doing the very same thing :laugh:
I'll go over it with an even finer tooth comb tomorrow and try and discover a few more niggles. :laugh:
I wait with bated breath. I've got a bloody big magnifying glass you can borrow if you like :tongue: :smiley:
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Either would do me, if I'm honest
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The fit and finish on my Golf is perfect, the paint is also very good, as good as as any audi, the only thing I think is better on a S3 is interior build quality, that said I prefer the look of the R's interior, i did look at buying a S3 but it just looked like any other A3 and was a bit too big for my liking.
Both very good cars though.
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I just don't understand why people are being so excessively defensive and over protective over a throwaway non-premium depreciating asset.
I've really not seen any evidence of Audis being better than a VW, they suffer as many warranty issues, use the same parts, and in some cases are built side-by-side with VWs and Seats at the same plant. I did look hard into an S3 and saw nowt in it between the 2 mass produced small-medium hatchbacks other than external looks, a slightly more premium (and I mean very slight, the MK7 has really closed the gap) interior, and almost no useful equipment on the Audi, but a raft of it on the Golf.
If you want nappa leather on the R, or a decent equipment spec on the S3, there is nothing between them price-wise, to me that is a strong indicator that quality of materials and build is pretty much equal between the 2, surely VW AG should be able to fetch more than a 2.5% premium for the Audi if it was so much better?
For me, picking the R over the S3 came down to a few things:-
1. Looks - I like the front and back end of the S3, not so much it's side profile in Sportback form, for me the 5 door R beats the S3 sportback hands down.
2. Equipment - The R comes with over £2700-worth of equipment that the S3 doesn't have, most of which I would be willing to order if neither car came with it. The S3 has £2600-worth of nappa leather that I would happily take for free, but would never willingly pay for.
3. Cost to change - my 2 local Audi dealership groups were not willing to give more than 5% discount, I got 12% on the R, and a better p/x to boot. The Audi dealers were more than a little snotty too. Even with the GFV drop, that S3 that i'd get £2k more for at p/x 3 years down the line would have cost me £2500 more to get to the spec I want - in the end i'll see most of it back, so in a way that leather is kind of free.
4. The wait - If Audi could have built me an S3 in a similar time-frame that BMW could have built me a 330D/335D, that might have clinched it. As it is, they were quoting me 20 weeks (same as the R was supposed to be).
Maybe an S3 next time, just to feel like i've bought something a little different if/when itchy feet set in (but knowing it's only skin deep). The 2 cars are much of a muchness. When you're buying a £70k Audi rather than a £30k VW, you'll likely see the difference. When you're buying a £30970 Audi rather than a £30150 VW, to be expecting a superior product, you've bought into the Audi salesman's sales patter. All IMO.
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I wait with bated breath. I've got a bloody big magnifying glass you can borrow if you like :tongue: :smiley:
I think Asker will be more likely requiring a lend of the Electron microscope at my wife's place of work. :whistle:
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I think Asker will be more likely requiring a lend of the Electron microscope at my wife's place of work. :whistle:
What a ridiculous idea. Shame on you! :wink:
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I've not compared my Golf to a Audi but it's way far the best built VW i have owned, panel gaps absolutely perfect and no rattles yet. I can't imagine a Audi is much better built.
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Fixed this omission in my post. Thanks for following me so closely. Most appreciated. :rolleyes:
Paranoia is never a good thing :laugh: old chap.
Sorry to disappoint but I'm not following you :shocked:
I can't help it if I'd just read your post 5 minutes previously slating the seats on one thread then you calling them pristine in another.
Confused :undecided: You bet I was!
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Fixed this omission in my post. Thanks for following me so closely. Most appreciated. :rolleyes:
Paranoia is never a good thing :laugh: old chap.
Sorry to disappoint but I'm not following you :shocked:
I can't help it if I'd just read your post 5 minutes previously slating the seats on one thread then you calling them pristine in another.
Confused :undecided: You bet I was!
Hope I have now unconfused you. :wink:
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Hope I have now unconfused you. :wink:
Yes you haven't :laugh:
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Hope I have now unconfused you. :wink:
Yes you haven't :laugh:
Give it time. :wink:
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Slightly confused by this thread given the doors on my R hang fine and my Carbon Nappa leather looks pristine (after 7K miles). Also, no rattles of any kind. So unsure of the point you're trying to make?
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I think if you read some Audi forums (or any other marque to be honest) you will find people moaning about faults and build problems.
Grass is greener etc etc
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I think if you read some Audi forums (or any other marque to be honest) you will find people moaning about faults and build problems.
Grass is greener etc etc
Definitely, they share pretty much everything but the bodyshell - paint, parts, assembly techniques etc. They're sold at very similar price-points also. Audi and VW are much of a muchness once you get beyond the bodyshape and slightly better lower dash/door card plastics. Audi would have to be massively more efficient at building A3s than VW is at building Golfs for you to get a noticeably superior car for your extra £800 spent on an S3 rather than an R. No-one makes flawless cars these days, not VW, not Audi, not BMW, not even Toyota. When building in such large volumes, the bean counters of VW AG, Toyota etc are happy when 97% of the cars are made right first time, if it would cost 10% more to make 99% of the cars right first time.
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And almost certainly the irony is that if you spent a lot more money on a low volume car, that would be a massive pile of gremlins... my mate had a new TVR which wasn't really a car, It was a way of disposing of money - he should have just bought an office shredder and fed 10 pound notes into it every day, at least the motor would probably have consistently run.
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I think if you read some Audi forums (or any other marque to be honest) you will find people moaning about faults and build problems.
Grass is greener etc etc
Exactly.
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And almost certainly the irony is that if you spent a lot more money on a low volume car, that would be a massive pile of gremlins... my mate had a new TVR which wasn't really a car, It was a way of disposing of money - he should have just bought an office shredder and fed 10 pound notes into it every day, at least the motor would probably have consistently run.
:grin: :grin: :grin:
I know what you're saying the Fred G!
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Slightly confused by this thread given the doors on my R hang fine and my Carbon Nappa leather looks pristine (after 7K miles). Also, no rattles of any kind. So unsure of the point you're trying to make?
Glad your car is perfect. :smiley:
My post was about some observations I made. The point is that the S3 Sportbacks appeared to me to have a better panel fit and less orange peel paintwork. But they look ever so frumpy compared to the R.
Warts and all, I much prefer the R.
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Glad your car is perfect. :smiley:
My post was about some observations I made. The point is that the S3 Sportbacks appeared to me to have a better panel fit and less orange peel paintwork. But they look ever so frumpy compared to the R.
Warts and all, I much prefer the R.
I didn't say that. I just commented that I don't have the issues you seem to have with your car, and also I'm not understanding the point of comparing your car to an S3 in your street and then saying that everyone's 'R bubble' has been burst - don't understand what point you're trying to make?
And as others have stated, they both use the same paintwork don't they?
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Glad your car is perfect. :smiley:
My post was about some observations I made. The point is that the S3 Sportbacks appeared to me to have a better panel fit and less orange peel paintwork. But they look ever so frumpy compared to the R.
Warts and all, I much prefer the R.
I didn't say that. I just commented that I don't have the issues you seem to have with your car, and also I'm not understanding the point of comparing your car to an S3 in your street and then saying that everyone's 'R bubble' has been burst - don't understand what point you're trying to make?
And as others have stated, they both use the same paintwork don't they?
The orange peel in the paint is par of the course and does not bother me. I only mentioned it as a comparison.
The front passenger door needs a minor adjustment which is also not a deal breaker.
Perhaps I am being too picky.
Otherwise, the car is pretty damn good, fake noise and all. :smiley:
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Otherwise the car is pretty damn good, fake noise and all. :smiley:
Don't you keep saying you're going to have the Soundkator disconnected or turned down? Or is it growing on you, unlike the crappy paint :laugh:
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Otherwise the car is pretty damn good, fake noise and all. :smiley:
Don't you keep saying you're going to have the Soundkator disconnected or turned down? Or is it growing on you, unlike the crappy paint :laugh:
Personally, I don't think the paint is crappy as Orange Peel is par of the course. Good enough for me. Just mentioned it to inform.
The Soundaktor will be turned down to zero or better still disconnected at some stage. The workshop manager said it cannot be disconnected but only turned down and for this I had to book it in. Their Master Tech was on holiday, so I was unable to get real sense out of them.
Here is a vid of Sounaktor 'on' and Spudaktor 'disconnected':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsiTedxwCBA
And a vid of how to disconnect it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf5RJY9Kx68
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No offence but you seem to moan quite a lot about most things on your new R - and about things that you knew it came with eg. the soundkator - seems slightly strange to spend all that money and after spending all that time researching a new car to then moan about it after you've got it - especially about things you knew you wouldn't like from the offset?
It's a bit like reading into how many calaries are in a McDonalds to then go and stuff your face with 3 cheeseburgers and a large fries, to then moan about how greasy and fattening it is - you knew what you were getting into beforehand so why moan about something that you did of your own free will?? Either buy it and enjoy it or don't buy it and save yourself all these pointless comparisons.
Just saying, like :smiley:
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Personally, I don't think the paint is crappy as Orange Peel is par of the course. Good enough for me. Just mentioned it to inform.
The Soundaktor will be turned down to zero or better still disconnected at some stage. The workshop manager said it cannot be disconnected but only turned down and for this I had to book it in. Their Master Tech was on holiday, so I was unable to get real sense out of them.
Here is a vid of Sounaktor 'on' and Spudaktor 'disconnected':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsiTedxwCBA
And a vid of how to disconnect it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf5RJY9Kx68
Thanks, I saw those vids on the other forum. Might come in handy if I decide I can't live with it in the long term. Will reserve judgement until I hear it in my own car :smiley:
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Rolled up next to a 64 plate A3 Sportback today in a mid metallic grey (putting in a suit at the dry cleaners - job interview next week), and it had orange peel, more noticeable than mine, less noticeable than a few BMWs and a Honda Civic at work. If I wanted an A3 then i'd consider it more than reasonable - the price of water based paints most likely, everyone's got orange peel these days.
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No offence but you seem to moan quite a lot about most things on your new R - and about things that you knew it came with eg. the soundkator - seems slightly strange to spend all that money and after spending all that time researching a new car to then moan about it after you've got it - especially about things you knew you wouldn't like from the offset?
It's a bit like reading into how many calaries are in a McDonalds to then go and stuff your face with 3 cheeseburgers and a large fries, to then moan about how greasy and fattening it is - you knew what you were getting into beforehand so why moan about something that you did of your own free will?? Either buy it and enjoy it or don't buy it and save yourself all these pointless comparisons.
Just saying, like :smiley:
Not moaning but stating some observations which I thought I'd share. But it seems I should not have. And yes, I am cut to the quick. :rolleyes:
I would respectfully suggest you don't read any of my posts due their pointlessness. Ditto!
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Rolled up next to a 64 plate A3 Sportback today in a mid metallic grey (putting in a suit at the dry cleaners - job interview next week), and it had orange peel, more noticeable than mine, less noticeable than a few BMWs and a Honda Civic at work. If I wanted an A3 then i'd consider it more than reasonable - the price of water based paints most likely, everyone's got orange peel these days.
Indeed it is water based paints. BMW are particularly bad as their cars are now dipped, which gives a finish similar (albeit smoother) to powder coating. There's a vid somewhere on youtube showing the process.
Like most I don't find it a problem (our Carbon GTD is very flat anyway), you do need a good sprayer if you need a repaint to match the level of peel though ;)
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And almost certainly the irony is that if you spent a lot more money on a low volume car, that would be a massive pile of gremlins... my mate had a new TVR which wasn't really a car, It was a way of disposing of money - he should have just bought an office shredder and fed 10 pound notes into it every day, at least the motor would probably have consistently run.
Well put :grin:.
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Not moaning but stating some observations which I thought I'd share. But it seems I should not have. And yes, I am cut to the quick. :rolleyes:
I would respectfully suggest you don't read any of my posts due their pointlessness. Ditto!
You can post what you want. And I'll reply to what I want - that's what a forum is all about :smiley:
I'm afraid when I read mince I can't help but reply - but there's no offence meant :smiley: I have spent the last few days crying about how I wished I'd bought an S3/330d though :laugh:
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And, on that note, this thread has run its course. :rolleyes: