GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: gaurav_aidasani on 16 October 2014, 22:17
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It's funny how when a car pulls up next to you at the traffic lights, it gives you an itchy feeling to upgrade your own! Driving down on a dual carriage way with a 50 limit I spotted a PW R doing 30 (?!) so I passed by with my Mk6 GTI. Clearly he wasn't having it and at the next set of traffic lights I was stopped at the line and he pulled up next to me. Obviously I didn't fancy looking like an idiot and didn't bother to race him!
Nevertheless I now have an itchy feeling to upgrade, not this year but maybe the next.
I've specced up an R and an S3 to almost exactly the same standard: DSG, metallic paint, leather, sunroof, ACC, navigation/audio and panoramic roof. To my surprise the Audi came in at 37k and the R to 38k.
This brought me to the eternal question of why have an R rather than the S3? I'm not looking at PCP or lease but just a plain comparison if I were to buy it outright. Depreciation should benefit the S3 (especially with all those Rs on lease!). The only thing I can think of is how they drive, S3 might be slightly softer but I reckon it feels more premium inside. And of course bad luck of pulling up to an RS3 at the lights.....
I also looked at the GTI vs the Cupra 280 to compare, not that I'll buy one. With similar spec, the GTI is 35k and the Cupra is 30k! If you're not a badge snob then why not go for the more powerful Cupra? Granted the interior is not as good and you don't have the heritage, but surely you can bag yourself a decent discount to offset the higher depreciation (thats what I think at least)?
What are your thoughts?
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It's not all about power. It's about the way the car drives, the way it responds and feels and the enjoyment of driving the car. I was looking at changing my GTI for the R but after driving one I actually think the GTI is much more fun. The R is solid, very planted, in my opinion a little too planted, almost boring in some regards because of the 4 wheel drive system. The diff on the GTI is brilliant and so much fun around twisty roads and sharp bends.
If I was buying again I would buy the GTI. The car's styling is perfect, subtle yet special. The interior is a nice place to be, the seats are perfect in tartan, the dash and interior lighting brings a quality feel to the cabin. It feels spacious and special. The R is tempting purely because of the power and 4 wheel drive system but is it a worthy trade for Fuel Consumption, Practicality and running costs? The GTI is the perfect balance, the R upsets that balance pushing more for performance.
Of course it is completely up to you, all those cars are great and you'd be happy with any of them but I think people are quite quick to judge cars based on BHP figures and sometimes forget about how they feel to drive.
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It's funny how when a car pulls up next to you at the traffic lights, it gives you an itchy feeling to upgrade your own! Driving down on a dual carriage way with a 50 limit I spotted a PW R doing 30 (?!) so I passed by with my Mk6 GTI. Clearly he wasn't having it and at the next set of traffic lights I was stopped at the line and he pulled up next to me. Obviously I didn't fancy looking like an idiot and didn't bother to race him!
Nevertheless I now have an itchy feeling to upgrade, not this year but maybe the next.
I've specced up an R and an S3 to almost exactly the same standard: DSG, metallic paint, leather, sunroof, ACC, navigation/audio and panoramic roof. To my surprise the Audi came in at 37k and the R to 38k.
This brought me to the eternal question of why have an R rather than the S3? I'm not looking at PCP or lease but just a plain comparison if I were to buy it outright. Depreciation should benefit the S3 (especially with all those Rs on lease!). The only thing I can think of is how they drive, S3 might be slightly softer but I reckon it feels more premium inside. And of course bad luck of pulling up to an RS3 at the lights.....
I also looked at the GTI vs the Cupra 280 to compare, not that I'll buy one. With similar spec, the GTI is 35k and the Cupra is 30k! If you're not a badge snob then why not go for the more powerful Cupra? Granted the interior is not as good and you don't have the heritage, but surely you can bag yourself a decent discount to offset the higher depreciation (thats what I think at least)?
What are your thoughts?
I also wondered about the S3 and was looking at that more than the R initially. As someone who thinks the standard spec of the R is perfectly adequate (don’t feel the need for leather, as long as we have Xenons, Dab, auto lights/wipers/mirrors and 18” alloys I’m perfectly happy), there was quite a gap between the S3 and the R. The S3 has none of the things I’d consider essential, apart from Xenons (and they’re not adaptive, that’s extra on the S3), to get the S3 to the same spec as the basic R (or GTI/GTD), and ignoring the fact S3 has nice leather equivalent to our Nappa options, you need to spend £2700 on the S3. If you wanted Nappa, then the 2 are more evened out on cost.
Of the 3 cars you have listed there, the Cupra will probably be the most fun (mainly for the fear of losing grip if you’re not careful), but it will be the dearest option on a monthly basis. GFV on the Cupra is 47%, and I can’t see you getting much more than 12% discount that you can achieve with the R. I’m not a fan of Seat interiors, very minimalist and cheapest looking/feeling of the VAG range.
You’d probably be surprised to know that the R beats the S3 (on paper at least) for depreciation. GFV on S3 is 56% and for the R it’s 60%. When I was trying to negotiate a deal on the S3, the dealership was very non-committal on true p/x values. He alluded to maybe offering £2500 over GFV in p/x, but that would most likely come at the expense of any discount leverage on the new one. At least with past experience with VW, you can usually get £1000 over GFV and seek out maximum discount (or the equivalent cost to change, whichever way the dealership writes it up).
For me wanting to add my essential options to the S3, taking into account better discount available on the R and a better GFV, the S3 was going to cost me about £5k more over 3 years than the R was.
I do think that VAG cars are getting duller on the drive with each generation, but that is the way cars are going in general. They’re much more polished (when they’re fully working), and the rawness is diminishing every time a new one comes out. More performance, but feeling slower due to how smooth they are.
My Scirocco 170TDI definitely felt faster and more fun than my GTD does (without the DTUK box), but there are times when you do appreciate the refinement too (and definitely far more standard equipment).
I’ve gotten the speed bug since being a bit underwhelmed by the lack of fun in the GTD (hence the DTUK box), and the sh!te grip (Bridgestones) is the icing on the cake. So with the R I’m saying “bollocks to the mpg” (it’s worse than the GTI, but who even buys a GTI for mpg?) and looking forward to some confident grip (it would have been a fair bit cheaper to just buy a set of 4 Michelins!). The cost for me to change an 18 month old GTD to a new R is £8500, and considering the R is costing £4700 more (RRP) and has a GFV £4k better than the GTD, I think I’ve done alright out of it.
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After seeing a mint condition 52 plater around Gosforth yesterday, it got me thinking about the most fun I've had with a VW. It has to be a Lupo GTI. I loved that car, light as a feather (plenty of Aluminium panels) and a raw 1.6 125ps, it was like a rocket powered rollerskate. It certainly felt a lot quicker than it actually was. It's a pity VW keep bringing out concept fast UPs and then deciding not to put them into production. Saw a BMW I8 today in Gosforth too, it was just in front of me for 1/2 a mile, very futuristic looking. I didn't think they were even out yet.
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Or the M135i :evil: Where else can you find a creamy straight six engined sub 30k hot hatch these days?
Yes its not the best looking car in the world but I think most hot hatches are subjective these days.
Just had the bmw m performance exhaust system fitted on on mine and it sounds amazing as well.
I'll go an get my tin hat! :smiley:
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The Mk7 is nicer than the S3. The Cupra is nicer than both. If I was in the market for the mk7 generation, the cupra would take my money every time.
Thas purely on looks. If you socialise with a load of badge snobs you would never hear the end of it. But let them sit in the passenger seat and show them why you bought it.
On a money point of view, admittedly, the S3 is probably the better choice. But a 7k saving goes a long way in offsetting depreciation.
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Or the M135i :evil: Where else can you find a creamy straight six engined sub 30k hot hatch these days?
Yes its not the best looking car in the world but I think most hot hatches are subjective these days.
Just had the bmw m performance exhaust system fitted on on mine and it sounds amazing as well.
I'll go an get my tin hat! :smiley:
It is primarily the looks that'll put most of us off, and i'm no exception to that. I find with the Seats that initially they look a breath of fresh air in the VAG camp, but look old quickly once you've tired of the different look - although, the current Ibiza is still holding up well in my eyes.
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I have to admit I have a similar dilemma going on at the moment. At the end of the year I am redundant from my current job, but start a new one. Currently I have a 5 year old mk6 GTD in April 2015, nearly 80k on the clock by then. Here is the thing my old job is a 58 miles round trip my new job is 12 miles. So i figured the GTD has to go the DPF is not going to like the short journeys and aswell since owning it from new its been very very good.
So mk7 R, S3 new, old S3, mk6 R, mk7 GTI, Cupra 280, Audi S4 3.0 V6 Supercharged.
Problem is I dont really want to spend very much to change, but I am not conviced that changing to a mk6 GTI/R will provide me with that new car feeling. I want a mk7 R or S3 really, love the golf size and think it would be a good step up.
Although I think it would be cheaper to buy a mk7 Golf GTI but would a Cupra 280 just whoop you at the lights? it does have 50bhp more, you should notice, has the same diff?
Then again probably wont change until feb/march next year and there should be more mk7R/S3 around at a slightly lower price as they are older, maybe a few mk7 GTIs at 20k?
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Although I think it would be cheaper to buy a mk7 Golf GTI but would a Cupra 280 just whoop you at the lights? it does have 50bhp more, you should notice, has the same diff?
I've not seen one of these anywhere. So the chances of you pulling up next to one at a set of lights, and you both being first at said lights, is minimal at best IMO. That's like me saying I'm pulling up against an R or an S3 while in my GTI - has never, and probably will never, ever happen. Also, don't race it - I never race anything that's quicker than me as I don't want to mug myself off :grin:
Both the R and the S3 are awesome cars - for me, the S3 is too bland - but then some say the same of the R so its swings and roundabouts. The M135i is also an awesome car, however to the unitiated it looks the same as any other 1 series with M Sport trim.
One things for sure, if you're all ready in a mk 6 try and get a mk 7 - its a massive step up.
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I've also thought about the M135i but hate the looks (important factor for me) and I suppose the 3.0 would be more expensive to maintain? I loved the 1M, but I don't know why they dropped the production.
The Cupra is growing on me but not sure how the 280BHP would handle without 4 wheel drive, especially in the wet. Personally I prefer any car above 250BHP to have either rear or 4 wheel drive.
But its frustrating to see that VW haven't bothered to up the power slightly on the mk7 GTI when that engine can easily deliver upto 280 horses (240-50 would have been perfect).....but I guess it's down to the right balance as well.
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Or the M135i :evil: Where else can you find a creamy straight six engined sub 30k hot hatch these days?
Yes its not the best looking car in the world but I think most hot hatches are subjective these days.
Just had the bmw m performance exhaust system fitted on on mine and it sounds amazing as well.
I'll go an get my tin hat! :smiley:
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/big-machine-gun.gif)
Buy a GTI, they'll be more exclusive come resale time!! :rolleyes:
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£180 a month for an R? It would be mad not to.
http://www.centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/vehicle/choose_your_lease/63191/volkswagen/golf/20_tsi_r_3dr.html
If I hadn't not long got my GTD I would be onto that in a flash.
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If I was in the market for the mk7 generation, the cupra would take my money every time.
I followed my Mk4 GTI with a Leon Cupra in 2002. Given the leap forward in quality the Mk4 had over the Mk3, the Leon felt like a backward step. I don't think things are any different these days.
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Great thread.
I think this sums it up: http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/16/everyone-on-the-internet-has-a-golf-r/#.VEEcQEt8OhM
C'mon, purely financially the R is having it's day right now. The R is now the GTI.
My GTI is just hitting one year old and how many have I seen on the roads in 12 months? About four different ones, five possibly as one might have been a GTD! How many GTD's? Hundreds. And R's? Considering they've only been on the roads since about March this year I've seen at least half a dozen already and I don't exactly go very far!
Monkeyhanger shares my view and Mr Savage has some good points in the first posts on this thread. The Lupo GTI has the fun factor that so many hot hatches lack. I've not tried the M135i unfortunately but despite the looks it must be a hoot to drive, one of those cars you'll own for a while, love, get rid of and then look back with regret in years to come.
If it was me buying right now I think the Cupra would possibly take my money. I'll ignore the traction of the R and S3 as one of the last track days I did at Castle Combe a few years back got a bit greasy and the first cars sliding off on the first bend after the start straight (quite a sharp one) saw the 4WD cars spinning off. The 4WD gives you traction off the line and stability in some situations but it doesn't defy physics or tyre grip.
I bought my GTI and went easy on the options to minimise depreciation knowing I don't keep my cars long, normally after the first year I'm planning my next change - but right now I can't think of anything I'd actually want to change the GTI for! Maybe the ED40 in a couple years will have the answer but until I've seen my friend's Cupra in the flesh (he's got one on order for early next year delivery) I just can't see there's a much more balanced car than the GTI (or GTD) out there. So I'm happy to keep mine but not sure I'd buy one right now when you can get such deals on the leases with R's. The only thing that would put me off an R lease would be that I'd be stuck with it. I've always tended to be old fashioned and save up for my cars or take bank loans so that the car is actually mine if I decide to modify it (as I have done in the past).
So to answer the original question, financially the R takes it so long as you don't mind base spec on a lease. The Audi takes it if you have the sort of friends who look down their noses at people or you want an uber stealth car if you're an accountant or doctor or something. The Cupra takes it if you want a bit of fun but still with VW engineering (personally I've owned a few SEATs and haven't found them to be any worse built than VW's) and the GTI takes it if you're an old fart like me...
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£180 a month for an R? It would be mad not to.
http://www.centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/vehicle/choose_your_lease/63191/volkswagen/golf/20_tsi_r_3dr.html
If I hadn't not long got my GTD I would be onto that in a flash.
Blimey! Anybody want to buy my GTI?!!!!!!
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When is the Ed 40 out and surely they are not just going to give it 240PS? with a free PP pack thrown in.
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Or the M135i :evil: Where else can you find a creamy straight six engined sub 30k hot hatch these days?
Yes its not the best looking car in the world but I think most hot hatches are subjective these days.
Just had the bmw m performance exhaust system fitted on on mine and it sounds amazing as well.
I'll go an get my tin hat! :smiley:
...And that Sport Auto 'box is brilliant (even compared to the much vaunted DSG)... The BMW may not look as good... but you don't have to look at it when you're driving it... The M-Sport seats are great, too. The issues with the ride on the previous version are sorted... The only issues for me are that the Harmon-Kardon hi-fi is not that great and the handling is a bit on the numb side in comparison to the Golf... but I guess that may be down to familiarity...
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My GTI is just hitting one year old and how many have I seen on the roads in 12 months? About four different ones, five possibly as one might have been a GTD! How many GTD's? Hundreds. And R's? Considering they've only been on the roads since about March this year I've seen at least half a dozen already and I don't exactly go very far!
Remarkably, I was sat in a lay-by on a conference call this afternoon for half an hour... I saw 4 Mk7 GTis, 3 GTDs and 1 R whilst I was there - dull conference call, obviously :grin:
The 4WD gives you traction off the line and stability in some situations but it doesn't defy physics or tyre grip.
And it doesn't help you stop... The biggest problem with 4WD I see is that it does give folks some misplaced confidence. I'm sure the biggest benefit of the 4WD on my other car is the improvement in weight distribution it offers.
I think the issue of cars being less fun than they were is true. Much of this can be put down to the fact that even the most average of cars have so much more grip, better ride, better brakes etc. etc. than the equivalent even 10 years ago that you need to be going so much faster to get the same point of capability than you used to that to get the thrill you used to feel in the seat of your pants you're at speeds that if it all went wrong the result would be that much more serious...
I think Toyota (and Subaru) have the right idea with the GT86... They're not that fast, they don't have that much grip but, having driven one, they're quite fun... you can feel the amount of grip through your backside and they're quite adjustable...
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I think Toyota (and Subaru) have the right idea with the GT86... They're not that fast, they don't have that much grip but, having driven one, they're quite fun... you can feel the amount of grip through your backside and they're quite adjustable...
Similar to my Mother-in-Laws MX5 I would imagine. I don't know who much power it has, but it's an absolute hoot.
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Similar to my Mother-in-Laws MX5 I would imagine. I don't know who much power it has, but it's an absolute hoot.
I agree i have an M135 and a GTD, i have owned an FN2 type R and an MX5, i can safely say the only car on that list i would buy again is the MX5, the other three are good in there own ways but the MX5 was something special, I still regret changing the MX5 for the Type R.
I have my eye on either a new model MX5 or the new Type R next year. :smiley:
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When is the Ed 40 out and surely they are not just going to give it 240PS? with a free PP pack thrown in.
2016 at a guess which would be handy as that's the year my warranty runs out!
I do wonder whether the R400 will end up being badged as a GTI-R as we've had some pretty lairy GTI motorshow specials that have never made production for obvious reasons but the R400 isn't really an R or a GTI but something in between and much more 'special'. Food for thought as the 400 moniker could be a take on the the 40...
I think Toyota (and Subaru) have the right idea with the GT86... They're not that fast, they don't have that much grip but, having driven one, they're quite fun... you can feel the amount of grip through your backside and they're quite adjustable...
Similar to my Mother-in-Laws MX5 I would imagine. I don't know who much power it has, but it's an absolute hoot.
Similar to my Mother-in-Laws MX5 I would imagine. I don't know who much power it has, but it's an absolute hoot.
I agree i have an M135 and a GTD, i have owned an FN2 type R and an MX5, i can safely say the only car on that list i would buy again is the MX5, the other three are good in there own ways but the MX5 was something special, I still regret changing the MX5 for the Type R.
I have my eye on either a new model MX5 or the new Type R next year. :smiley:
Funnily enough I was going to mention the MX5 in my post above ^^^^ saying that I grew up with GTI's but despite the fact they're massively more powerful and capable, they're not as much fun; yet the generation that grew up before me had the MGB and its spiritual successor the MX5 has stayed such a fun car. My sister had a succession of them and they were all very reliable and huge fun despite very low power compared with the new breed of hyper-hatch like the R, M135i and Merc A45. The obvious downside being that two seater sports cars are pretty much a one trick pony unlike a GTI. Fine if you're a single 20 something lady but…
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£180 a month for an R? It would be mad not to.
http://www.centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/vehicle/choose_your_lease/63191/volkswagen/golf/20_tsi_r_3dr.html
If I hadn't not long got my GTD I would be onto that in a flash.
So,if you leased one for 2 years (5 door manual) at circa £180 a month-and wanted to buy it at the end of the lease,how much would the purchase price be then?
I cant see where it tells you?
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Its more like £283 a month when you spread the initial payment, documentation and VAT, along with your 23 monthly payments over 24 months. Still significantly cheaper than the depreciation and interest on a GTI or an R through solutions though (a little dearer than a cash buy, on the assumption that you buy for 12% discount and achieve £1k more than GFV when you part e/x, then account for the £70 a month you would've made in interest by leaving your purchase money in the bank). You'll probably not be able to buy yours at the end of the term (they might have an agreement with VW that they come back to the dealership network) and even if you do, they'll be wanting the GFV off you at the end no doubt (£21363 after 2 years, on a 5 door). You could get 3 more concurrent 2 year leases on those terms and still have change.
If you don't have the complication of a p/x, don't have the cash upfront to buy outright, don't want any/many options (watch you monthly payments shoot up if you do), then leasing on these terms makes sense.
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The Audi takes it if you have the sort of friends who look down their noses at people or you want an uber stealth car if you're an accountant or doctor or something.
I'm an accountant! :grin: :grin:
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The Audi takes it if you have the sort of friends who look down their noses at people or you want an uber stealth car if you're an accountant or doctor or something.
I'm an accountant! :grin: :grin:
I'm a reluctant accountant :grin:
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The Audi takes it if you have the sort of friends who look down their noses at people or you want an uber stealth car if you're an accountant or doctor or something.
I'm an accountant! :grin: :grin:
I'm a reluctant accountant :grin:
:grin: :grin: That's a given for us all!! :grin: :grin:
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I act like an accountant on here sometimes. :whistle:
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I act like an accountant on here sometimes. :whistle:
I would say more of a financial advisor! :laugh:
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I act like an accountant on here sometimes. :whistle:
You should definitely be in the finance business MH if you're not already :smiley: :smiley:
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I act like an accountant on here sometimes. :whistle:
You should definitely be in the finance business MH if you're not already :smiley: :smiley:
Maybe I will. Getting made redundant next year, currently in Quality Assurance and HSE.
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I act like an accountant on here sometimes. :whistle:
You should definitely be in the finance business MH if you're not already :smiley: :smiley:
Maybe I will. Getting made redundant next year, currently in Quality Assurance and HSE.
No construction HSE?
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GrahamFR: I've done a stint in construction (structural steelwork fabrication as a summer job for 4 years to pay my way through Uni), so i'm more than familiar with the environment, plant and tools but I wasn't into HSE back then. Most of my HSE experience is in chemicals and radiological protection.
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ahh i see, ill let you off then, im a qs for a main contractor and id like to know why you keep hassling us about using mewps when a perfectly good set of ladders could do the trick :smiley:
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Don't forget to lock the wheels on your MEWP. Seen a few of them start to roll. :grin:
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I blame unpredictable ground conditions :rolleyes:
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Considered all of these models to change into from my 6GTI, in the end the Golf 7R ticked all the box's
Though worth noting my second choice was the 7GTI PP :smiley: I guess the golf is best :cool:
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Yesterday I saw 3 Rs within 5 mins and this morning at 6am I saw a lorry delivering 2 brand spanking new Gtis and 2 Rs!
My mk6 is becoming a rare sight!
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I think that more 7R's on the road will actually increase the desire/demand for one from other buyers not just experienced hot hatch owners. Might actually keep residuals buoyant in the next few years despite the lease deals.
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I think that more 7R's on the road will actually increase the desire/demand for one from other buyers not just experienced hot hatch owners. Might actually keep residuals buoyant in the next few years despite the lease deals.
I agree, well cared for examples will be much in demand.
So long as VW keep the quality up on them and limit the supply (the 6 month lead times show that's the case) they will hold their value well.