MK7 R or Audi S3 and GTI or Leon Cupra 280?

[gaurav_aidasani]

It's funny how when a car pulls up next to you at the traffic lights, it gives you an itchy feeling to upgrade your own! Driving down on a dual carriage way with a 50 limit I spotted a PW R doing 30 (?!) so I passed by with my Mk6 GTI. Clearly he wasn't having it and at the next set of traffic lights I was stopped at the line and he pulled up next to me. Obviously I didn't fancy looking like an idiot and didn't bother to race him!

Nevertheless I now have an itchy feeling to upgrade, not this year but maybe the next.

I've specced up an R and an S3 to almost exactly the same standard: DSG, metallic paint, leather, sunroof, ACC, navigation/audio and panoramic roof. To my surprise the Audi came in at 37k and the R to 38k.

This brought me to the eternal question of why have an R rather than the S3? I'm not looking at PCP or lease but just a plain comparison if I were to buy it outright. Depreciation should benefit the S3 (especially with all those Rs on lease!). The only thing I can think of is how they drive, S3 might be slightly softer but I reckon it feels more premium inside. And of course bad luck of pulling up to an RS3 at the lights.....

I also looked at the GTI vs the Cupra 280 to compare, not that I'll buy one. With similar spec, the GTI is 35k and the Cupra is 30k! If you're not a badge snob then why not go for the more powerful Cupra? Granted the interior is not as good and you don't have the heritage, but surely you can bag yourself a decent discount to offset the higher depreciation (thats what I think at least)?

What are your thoughts?

[Mr Savage]

It's not all about power. It's about the way the car drives, the way it responds and feels and the enjoyment of driving the car. I was looking at changing my GTI for the R but after driving one I actually think the GTI is much more fun. The R is solid, very planted, in my opinion a little too planted, almost boring in some regards because of the 4 wheel drive system. The diff on the GTI is brilliant and so much fun around twisty roads and sharp bends.

If I was buying again I would buy the GTI. The car's styling is perfect, subtle yet special. The interior is a nice place to be, the seats are perfect in tartan, the dash and interior lighting brings a quality feel to the cabin. It feels spacious and special. The R is tempting purely because of the power and 4 wheel drive system but is it a worthy trade for Fuel Consumption, Practicality and running costs? The GTI is the perfect balance, the R upsets that balance pushing more for performance.

Of course it is completely up to you, all those cars are great and you'd be happy with any of them but I think people are quite quick to judge cars based on BHP figures and sometimes forget about how they feel to drive.

[monkeyhanger]

It's funny how when a car pulls up next to you at the traffic lights, it gives you an itchy feeling to upgrade your own! Driving down on a dual carriage way with a 50 limit I spotted a PW R doing 30 (?!) so I passed by with my Mk6 GTI. Clearly he wasn't having it and at the next set of traffic lights I was stopped at the line and he pulled up next to me. Obviously I didn't fancy looking like an idiot and didn't bother to race him!

Nevertheless I now have an itchy feeling to upgrade, not this year but maybe the next.

I've specced up an R and an S3 to almost exactly the same standard: DSG, metallic paint, leather, sunroof, ACC, navigation/audio and panoramic roof. To my surprise the Audi came in at 37k and the R to 38k.

This brought me to the eternal question of why have an R rather than the S3? I'm not looking at PCP or lease but just a plain comparison if I were to buy it outright. Depreciation should benefit the S3 (especially with all those Rs on lease!). The only thing I can think of is how they drive, S3 might be slightly softer but I reckon it feels more premium inside. And of course bad luck of pulling up to an RS3 at the lights.....

I also looked at the GTI vs the Cupra 280 to compare, not that I'll buy one. With similar spec, the GTI is 35k and the Cupra is 30k! If you're not a badge snob then why not go for the more powerful Cupra? Granted the interior is not as good and you don't have the heritage, but surely you can bag yourself a decent discount to offset the higher depreciation (thats what I think at least)?

What are your thoughts?

I also wondered about the S3 and was looking at that more than the R initially. As someone who thinks the standard spec of the R is perfectly adequate (don’t feel the need for leather, as long as we have Xenons, Dab, auto lights/wipers/mirrors and 18” alloys I’m perfectly happy), there was quite a gap between the S3 and the R. The S3 has none of the things I’d consider essential, apart from Xenons (and they’re not adaptive, that’s extra on the S3), to get the S3 to the same spec as the basic R (or GTI/GTD), and ignoring the fact S3 has nice leather equivalent to our Nappa options, you need to spend £2700 on the S3. If you wanted Nappa, then the 2 are more evened out on cost.

Of the 3 cars you have listed there, the Cupra will probably be the most fun (mainly for the fear of losing grip if you’re not careful), but it will be the dearest option on a monthly basis. GFV on the Cupra is 47%, and I can’t see you getting much more than 12% discount that you can achieve with the R. I’m not a fan of Seat interiors, very minimalist and cheapest looking/feeling of the VAG range.

You’d probably be surprised to know that the R beats the S3 (on paper at least) for depreciation. GFV on S3 is 56% and for the R it’s 60%. When I was trying to negotiate a deal on the S3, the dealership was very non-committal on true p/x values. He alluded to maybe offering £2500 over GFV in p/x, but that would most likely come at the expense of any discount leverage on the new one. At least with past experience with VW, you can usually get £1000 over GFV and seek out maximum discount (or the equivalent cost to change, whichever way the dealership writes it up).
For me wanting to add my essential options to the S3, taking into account better discount available on the R and a better GFV, the S3 was going to cost me about £5k more over 3 years than the R was.

I do think that VAG cars are getting duller on the drive with each generation, but that is the way cars are going in general. They’re much more polished (when they’re fully working), and the rawness is diminishing every time a new one comes out. More performance, but feeling slower due to how smooth they are.

My Scirocco 170TDI definitely felt faster and more fun than my GTD does (without the DTUK box), but there are times when you do appreciate the refinement too (and definitely far more standard equipment).
I’ve gotten the speed bug since being a bit underwhelmed by the lack of fun in the GTD (hence the DTUK box), and the sh!te grip (Bridgestones) is the icing on the cake. So with the R I’m saying “bollocks to the mpg” (it’s worse than the GTI, but who even buys a GTI for mpg?) and looking forward to some confident grip (it would have been a fair bit cheaper to just buy a set of 4 Michelins!). The cost for me to change an 18 month old GTD to a new R is £8500, and considering the R is costing £4700 more (RRP) and has a GFV £4k better than the GTD, I think I’ve done alright out of it.

[monkeyhanger]

After seeing a mint condition 52 plater around Gosforth yesterday, it got me thinking about the most fun I've had with a VW. It has to be a Lupo GTI. I loved that car, light as a feather (plenty of Aluminium panels) and a raw 1.6 125ps, it was like a rocket powered rollerskate. It certainly felt a lot quicker than it actually was. It's a pity VW keep bringing out concept fast UPs and then deciding not to put them into production. Saw a BMW I8 today in Gosforth too, it was just in front of me for 1/2 a mile, very futuristic looking. I didn't think they were even out yet.

[MAW73]

Or the M135i  Where else can you find a creamy straight six engined sub 30k hot hatch these days?

Yes its not the best looking car in the world but I think most hot hatches are subjective these days.

Just had the bmw m performance exhaust system fitted on on mine and it sounds amazing as well.

I'll go an get my tin hat! 

[Waspy]

The Mk7 is nicer than the S3. The Cupra is nicer than both. If I was in the market for the mk7 generation, the cupra would take my money every time.

Thas purely on looks. If you socialise with a load of badge snobs you would never hear the end of it. But let them sit in the passenger seat and show them why you bought it.

On a money point of view, admittedly, the S3 is probably the better choice. But a 7k saving goes a long way in offsetting depreciation.

[monkeyhanger]

Or the M135i  Where else can you find a creamy straight six engined sub 30k hot hatch these days?

Yes its not the best looking car in the world but I think most hot hatches are subjective these days.

Just had the bmw m performance exhaust system fitted on on mine and it sounds amazing as well.

I'll go an get my tin hat! 

It is primarily the looks that'll put most of us off, and i'm no exception to that. I find with the Seats that initially they look a breath of fresh air in the VAG camp, but look old quickly once you've tired of the different look - although, the current Ibiza is still holding up well in my eyes.

[ajmoir36]

I have to admit I have a similar dilemma going on at the moment. At the end of the year I am redundant from my current job, but start a new one. Currently I have a 5 year old mk6 GTD in April 2015, nearly 80k on the clock by then. Here is the thing my old job is a 58 miles round trip my new job is 12 miles. So i figured the GTD has to go the DPF is not going to like the short journeys and aswell since owning it from new its been very very good.

So mk7 R, S3 new, old S3, mk6 R, mk7 GTI, Cupra 280, Audi S4 3.0 V6 Supercharged.

Problem is I dont really want to spend very much to change, but I am not conviced that changing to a mk6 GTI/R will provide me with that new car feeling. I want a mk7 R or S3 really, love the golf size and think it would be a good step up.

Although I think it would be cheaper to buy a mk7 Golf GTI but would a Cupra 280 just whoop you at the lights? it does have 50bhp more, you should notice, has the same diff?

Then again probably wont change until feb/march next year and there should be more mk7R/S3 around at a slightly lower price as they are older, maybe a few mk7 GTIs at 20k?

[matchboy]

Although I think it would be cheaper to buy a mk7 Golf GTI but would a Cupra 280 just whoop you at the lights? it does have 50bhp more, you should notice, has the same diff?

I've not seen one of these anywhere.  So the chances of you pulling up next to one at a set of lights, and you both being first at said lights, is minimal at best IMO.  That's like me saying I'm pulling up against an R or an S3 while in my GTI - has never, and probably will never, ever happen.  Also, don't race it - I never race anything that's quicker than me as I don't want to mug myself off 

Both the R and the S3 are awesome cars - for me, the S3 is too bland - but then some say the same of the R so its swings and roundabouts.  The M135i is also an awesome car, however to the unitiated it looks the same as any other 1 series with M Sport trim.

One things for sure, if you're all ready in a mk 6 try and get a mk 7 - its a massive step up.

[gaurav_aidasani]

I've also thought about the M135i but hate the looks (important factor for me) and I suppose the 3.0 would be more expensive to maintain? I loved the 1M, but I don't know why they dropped the production.

The Cupra is growing on me but not sure how the 280BHP would handle without 4 wheel drive, especially in the wet. Personally I prefer any car above 250BHP to have either rear or 4 wheel drive.
 
But its frustrating to see that VW haven't bothered to up the power slightly on the mk7 GTI when that engine can easily deliver upto 280 horses (240-50 would have been perfect).....but I guess it's down to the right balance as well.