GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: jv on 19 April 2014, 13:12
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VW press release:
Volkswagen is displaying the potential of its flagship Golf R hatchback at the Auto China show in Beijing, in the muscular form of the Golf R 400 concept. If the ‘400’ in the name doesn’t give the game away that this is a seriously powerful machine, then the body and bumper modifications and flared wheelarches should give more than a hint.
Based on the standard Golf R hatchback, which with its turbocharged 300 PS engine and 4MOTION four-wheel drive is hardly a shrinking violet, the Golf R 400 ups the ante considerably, with 400 PS and an extra 70 Nm of torque, making for 450 Nm in total, available from 2,400 to 6,000 rpm.
Developed by Volkswagen R GmbH, the arm responsible for high-power and customisation projects, the Golf R 400 uses a modified version of the engine found in the Golf R: a 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbocharged engine (Type EA888). The extra power of the 400 helps propel this six-speed DSG-equipped model from rest to 62 mph in just 3.9 seconds, a whole second faster than its 300 PS sibling. Its top speed is 174 mph (governed).
To achieve the increase in power, the Golf R 400 features a newly developed turbocharger with a higher maximum charge pressure and reinforced crankcase. A water-cooled exhaust gas feed to the turbocharger integrated in the cylinder head helps to reduce full-load fuel consumption, while variable valve control with dual camshaft adjustment improves economy and performance.
At 1,420 kg, the Golf R 400 weighs the same as the standard Golf R, but its appearance has been substantially altered. The body is 20 mm wider on each side, with flared wheelarches that are reminiscent of those on the 1988 Rallye Golf G60. These arches, like most of the body, are painted in ‘Silver Flake’ metallic, and contrast with the gloss black roof and carbon door mirror caps. New sill extensions seamlessly bridge the gap between the widened arches. Filling those arches are 19-inch alloy wheels on an increased offset. A development of the Golf R’s standard ‘Cadiz’ wheels, these are highly modified, with high-gloss back inserts that act as air vanes, helping to cool the reinforced braking system. The tyres are 235/35 R19s.
At the front, the bumper has been completely redesigned to take into account the greater cooling requirements of the R 400. A carbon fibre splitter and aerodynamic ‘wing element’ help to push air towards the honeycomb mesh of the grille – one of many aspects influenced by motorsport. The ‘R’ badge on the gloss black radiator grille sits on a ‘Lemon Yellow’ background, while the horizontal stripe across the grille (which, like the chrome strip on the Golf R, continues into the bi-xenon headlights) is also ‘Lemon Yellow’.
The redesigned rear bumper includes vents on each side, and the Golf R’s four tailpipes have been replaced with two centrally mounted items, like those on the 2002 Golf R32. These 110 mm diameter items are 200 mm apart, and point slightly upwards, displaying a honeycomb mesh. A black double spoiler with LED brake lights atop the tailgate finishes the look.
Inside are motorsport shell seats with integrated head restraints and belt openings. These are upholstered in cross-quilted panels covered in Alcantara, and ‘carbon leather’, as are the two individual rear seats. Stitching throughout the interior is in contrasting ‘Lemon Yellow’.
The Golf R 400 is only a concept at this stage, with no production plans.
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(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31.0-8/10295253_657595797646430_748206751671043492_o.jpg)
More photos at https://www.facebook.com/GolfGTIforum
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I'm watching this with interest as it may open up possibilities for other cars in the Golf 7 range.
Also, the auto at feature says that 'R insiders' (whoever they are) have said because it shares a lot with the R this may see production as a limited run.
It also states it uses the same engine, gearbox and running gear as the R so I'd like to know what the mods are to the engine. I believe DTUK were saying they expected figures near the 400bhp mark on a stage 2 7R.
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Wonder if this'll be the Edition 40? Ate they still talking about the carbon edition too?
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looks nice and very Aggressive
I think if a similar model to this is put in production it will be nearer to 375bhp to match the new S3+,I don't think VAG would allow for a Golf to have more bhp then a Audi equivalent.
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Weren't the Mk7's meant to be getting a carbon roof for the GTI/D/R?
I'm sure I read recently that was all dropped due to the strengthening required being too expensive.
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Apparently the weight saving is mostly done in the interior.
Isn't carbon considerably stronger and lighter than metal? What strengthening would be required?
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Some more shots of this in the Metal
Where's my cheque book :cool:
http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/beijing-motor-show/volkswagen-reveals-golf-r400-mega-hatch
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Apparently the weight saving is mostly done in the interior.
Isn't carbon considerably stronger and lighter than metal? What strengthening would be required?
It's strong but it's not tough, not ideal around the safety cell to have something that'll shatter rather than deform plastically as metals do, or may just pop off the top of the safety cell when the car is involved in a big crash. It might be a bonding issue between steel and carbon fibre. Why are VW so shy about using aluminium (except the great Lupo GTI) when Audi aren't? About 2/3 of the Audi TT body is aluminium, and it's cheaper than carbon fibre on a panel basis.
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Every day is a school day! Is carbon Kevlar a better material then? Purely from a strength point of view, I know financially it is ridiculous.
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Not sure about the exhausts but I've just emailed my bro and ordered my next company car!
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I wait to see if it ever makes production.
I like the idea of a 400ps golf but dont know if I would ever use that amount of power or really need it on the road.
I think theres is a balance for everyday road cars you can have too much power making it too fast.
Wonder what the turbo lag and fuel consumption ends up been..
Saying all that it could really tempt me... (hart over head)... :cool:
Not sure of all the yellow detailing inside or to a lesser extent outside. I think they could have used a different colour.
Probably end up been 40k if its ever made. If its a limited edition 45k?
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Looking at the R forum it seems there are plenty enough (considering the low numbers to be sold) people that think nothing of spending that sort of money on a Golf 'just because' so it'll sell well enough for the purposes intended.
400bhp in a road car? You're not going to get to use much of it considering it's a 2.0 engine meaning it will have to have a huuuuge turbo meaning pretty much all of the performance will be at licence using territory in the UK.
People that can afford it will buy it because they can.
I think the best thing about it is the fact it can be done and it's good to see VW doing something mad like that.
Shame they didn't use blue trims for the grille like the G60 Limited from 1990 or thereabouts in the old Volkswagen Motorsport colour but the lemon must mean something same as the VXR thingy.
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The blue trim is on the GTE, so think VW is just running out of colours :)
DTUK are talking a out their S3 being 400bhp at stage 2.
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Hubba hubba!!! :P
http://youtu.be/Eh5GdYUvw2Q (http://youtu.be/Eh5GdYUvw2Q)
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I really like the quads on mine now but these would've been better imo....
(http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/blaarp1/3df44fdb76b683cdb0bdff4eff17c165_zps70dd76a1.jpg)
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Each time I look at this I think "why wouldn't VeeDub make this"? Some forums are comparing it to the w12 which only ever stayed as concept but this is as close to a production concept as you can get.
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Looks amazing - loving them rear tail pipes.
Shame, as others have mentioned, it'll probably never get made.
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I reckon it will happen :evil:
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What year is the 40th anniversary of the GTi? 2016?
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I reckon it will happen :evil:
I hope so.
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As discussed on the R forum all the mechanics are in production. As it is just an R with a modified engine. An engine which is being used by Audi.
Also, the video says it is to celebrate 40 years of the Golf.
After much deliberation I don't think I would bother upgrading from my R. I could get my R to 400bhp for not too much money and I don't have to have those seats, plus I get to keep my 5 doors!
Still, there are plenty of people showing interest.
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But its not a GTI is it? It is an R... So, I doubt it will be an Ed 40...
Given what it is likely to cost and the fact that, to me, it looks like it has crashed into a German branch of Halfords, I reckon the money would be better spent on something that's not an expensively jazzed up shopping car... :evil:
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Looks like it is definitely going in to production!
http://thesupercarkids.com/vw-golf-r400-going-into-production/ (http://thesupercarkids.com/vw-golf-r400-going-into-production/)
J
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It will be interesting to see how many they make and what the price will be. I would probably think round about the £38k mark and limited to 400 perhaps :wink:
To me this is what the standard R should have looked like in the first place. I can see many current R owners not being too happy :grin:
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I really like the look of this, but if i was spending circa £40k(+?) would I be buying a Golf? Not sure i would.
A few people have mentioned how the R looks a little restrained, is this why, where VW holding back?
They should build it though, good for the brand :cool:
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Holding out for an Edition 40 GTI :whistle:
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Now this car looks the nuts, the silver and green work really well IMO as do the alloys and probably all other colours too.
I would get this car not because of the BHP but looks alone as I'd never use all the power.
If this is mass produced to the public I think I might change my savings account name from 'mortgage' to 'R400' :grin:
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Got my name down for one of these beasts.... :evil: :laugh: :whistle:
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Got my name down for one of these beasts.... :evil: :laugh: :whistle:
Get to the back of the queue mate :tongue:
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I like it but for a Limited Edition the engine should be unique.
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Name down with who, and how?
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What a fantastic bit of kit. Build it or not great vision for future golfs.Will they soon change the name from hot hatches to hyper hatches?
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Name down with who, and how?
Just with my dealership.
If anybody is really interested in the R400, its wise to get your name down early to avoid disappointment if they are limited in numbers and if dealerships only get a car or two. :wink:
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Name down with who, and how?
Just with my dealership.
If anybody is really interested in the R400, its wise to get your name down early to avoid disappointment if they are limited in numbers and if dealerships only get a car or two. :wink:
The problem is that you will be talking some serious money probably in the region of £40k which then becomes TTS and Cayman territory.
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Name down with who, and how?
Just with my dealership.
If anybody is really interested in the R400, its wise to get your name down early to avoid disappointment if they are limited in numbers and if dealerships only get a car or two. :wink:
The problem is that you will be talking some serious money probably in the region of £40k which then becomes TTS and Cayman territory.
or a nice aston thats a couple of years old :laugh: as someone said already
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The running, servicing and depreciation costs on that Aston are going to be considerably higher though?
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On the R forum they're reckoning on priced near £50,000. I'm not convinced it will be, but there are people with deposits ready even at that price.
You could certainly get a nearly new Porsche for that price, although the Golf would be more practical as got a bigger boot and 4 seats. I also think the R400 may have decent running costs. I imagine it won't be much different to the R.
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On the R forum they're reckoning on priced near £50,000. I'm not convinced it will be, but there are people with deposits ready even at that price.
You could certainly get a nearly new Porsche for that price, although the Golf would be more practical as got a bigger boot and 4 seats. I also think the R400 may have decent running costs. I imagine it won't be much different to the R.
If it's close to £50k you would have to be clinically insane to buy it. :grin: :grin:. I can't see it being anywhere near that price. The new TTRS is reported to have over 400bhp and it will likely be circa £45k. Even the new Cayman GTS would only be £5k more expensive at £55k and I know what I would rather have. If you wanted practicality you could have a brand new Merc C63 AMG for just over £50k
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I'd agree that running costs won't be anywhere near what a AMG, Aston, Porsche would cost and it's still a Golf at the end if the day with all it's benefits.
Pricing will have to be keen but it depends on how many Volkswagen produce.
The lower the number, they higher the price, but then residual values will remain keen. (Think BMW CSL / 1M).
Personally I think they will build either 400 or 4000 units all individually numbered in one spec with no added options, perhaps only in one color too.
The chances of a 5dr will be virtually zero.
You have to look at the special parts that have to be used on this car to see that tooling at the factor will have to be changed slightly.
Bodywork
Alloys
Brakes
Engine
DSG gearbox (stronger?)
Full interior (seats, stitching, mats)
Interior door and glovebox carbon trim
Speedo cluster
Steering wheel and gear knob.
R400 badging
Each one of the above parts would cost more to manufacturer due to smaller volumes.
As a guess i'd say £42,995 OTR will a high spec as standard.
:)
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I highly doubt that a £43k 400ps Golf (+ options to add for some) will command great money on the used market over a standard R. It will always be worth more than a GTI or a standard R, but £9k more than a GTI at 3 years old (to maintain same GFV as a GTI)? Just about possible while that car is in the dealership network and they set the nearly new prices, but it will plummet beyond it. There are just far better options out there at £43k or thereabouts – it’s no sports car, it’s a rocket propelled family hatchback that handles better than most family hatchbacks. You’d have to be a very well heeled VW nut to buy one of these over a Cayman or TTRS. Top of the range cars that go beyond twice the price of the most basic variant of that car don’t generally hold their value well. If you look at the Scirocco R, on the used market they only have around a £1500 premium over the 2.0TSI with the GTI engine. A 400ps Golf is still only a Golf, people expect more badge kudos on a £43k car than VW can give, even a 400ps Audi RS3 to the same spec would be the more desirable buy to most with £43k to spend on a car. In a similar vein, why would anyone drop £70k on a Phaeton with a VW badge?
Most people who can afford to drop £43k on a car will not be using it for the school run, they’ll buy that Cayman and have something like a GTI for the practical stuff. If they limit it to 400 units then they will sell them all, because there will be 400 VW nuts out there across Europe that’ll have one, but £43k is too much to be asking for a VW Golf.
Price it at £33-35k and it’ll be a lot more palletable to the new and used market. An extra 100ps can be achieved by remapping a standard R – how much could you add to the RRP by simply adding a bit more robustness by way of a bigger turbo, beefier clutch, possibly harder piston rods, bigger injectors, further suspension tweaks and a few interior and exterior styling changes? £13k over a standard R? That’s crazy money.
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I do hope its not £43k and more like £35k but its direct rival the A45 AMG is £40k+, I can only assume it will be priced around this figure.
I think the R400 will not be a car that you can add any options on.... it will just come as one spec, one colour if its a very limited run car...
We will have to wait and see... all I can say is that I am very interested if the price is right. :)
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A three year old RS3 is still over £30,000. The decent ones are over £33,000, so in 3 years have done well considering it was a £40k car. In fact a fair few of them are over £35,000. Factor in the the R400 will most likely be limited run. I think it will hold it's price very well. I also don't think there will be an option list, it'll come in one trim, with sat nav and such as standard. It can afford to be a bit over the A45 AMG in price as it is a better spec as standard. I can see it being high £30k or low £40k and will sell out very quickly.
Compare it to how the RS500 was compared to the Sierra Cosworth back in the day.
A lot of the other R owners are also Porsche owners and are saying that for the money of an R400 you can get a Porsche that is out of warranty with higher running costs or an old GTR, which, again, would be older and huge running costs.
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I'd agree, if it is built in low volumes then residuals might hold up.... but in reality... who cares.. this is going to be a Uber Golf which will sell regardless of price and residuals.
I can't wait to see what the production version is going to be like... roll on 2015 :smiley:
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I think the fact that the engine etc are all homologated for other cars within the group - i.e. it's off the shelf parts means the price could technically be 'reasonable' for that power figure.
It probably depends on interest.
It's just another incentive for wealthy people to downsize their cars!!!!
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Everything in the car is already in production in the VAG range, bar the engine which is going into production on the TTRS. It is an R with a bigger engine.
The only things that will need making are the panels, which won't be ridiculously expensive and the interior, which will probably be a few thousand pounds. This could feasibly be made and sold for £38,000 at a reasonable profit, which would blow the A45 out of the water.
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Everything in the car is already in production in the VAG range, bar the engine which is going into production on the TTRS. It is an R with a bigger engine.
The only things that will need making are the panels, which won't be ridiculously expensive and the interior, which will probably be a few thousand pounds. This could feasibly be made and sold for £38,000 at a reasonable profit, which would blow the A45 out of the water.
I'd agree... anything between £35-45k I'd consider it...... all depends on the spec and production numbers.... the more exclusive it is, the more it will probably cost.
I think they should just fully load the car with every option, stick to one paint finish and roll them out... 400 cars for each region all individually numbered with plaque.
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Everything in the car is already in production in the VAG range, bar the engine which is going into production on the TTRS. It is an R with a bigger engine.
I was under the impression that VW would be using a heavily modified version of the 2.0l that's currently in both the GTI and R. There was no suggestion that the R will get the 2.5l engine that's in the current TTRS and which is also likely to be in the new RS
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Everything in the car is already in production in the VAG range, bar the engine which is going into production on the TTRS. It is an R with a bigger engine.
I was under the impression that VW would be using a heavily modified version of the 2.0l that's currently in both the GTI and R. There was no suggestion that the R will get the 2.5l engine that's in the current TTRS and which is also likely to be in the new RS
I would agree that the RS 2.5 engine is exclusively for Audi RS cars and not VW.
I would also say that is now being put into doubt with Volkswagen's realease of the 400bhp EA888 engine which can push 420ps (see Audi 420 TTSport Concept).
The 2.5 RS Audi engine has soul but it is very heavy and not that frugal..... Audi may end up dropping it.. the Audi 420 TTSport Concept is probably the next Audi RSTT and the RS3 will probably get the same 2.0 EA888 engine too.
I see it as follows if Audi ditch the heavy and not so frugal RS 2.5 engine.
VW Golf R400 = 400bhp
Audi RS3 = 420bhp
Audi TTRS = 420bhp
EU is forcing more and more frugal engines.... I personally think a ligher EA888 engine will be much better in terms of weight and handling in a RSTT/RS3 compared to the RS 2.5 engine.
I predict prices as follows...
VW Golf R400 £39,995 (one high spec)
Audi RS3 £44,995
Audi RSTT £47,995
:)
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Its going to be epic :laugh: :evil:
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Everything in the car is already in production in the VAG range, bar the engine which is going into production on the TTRS. It is an R with a bigger engine.
I was under the impression that VW would be using a heavily modified version of the 2.0l that's currently in both the GTI and R. There was no suggestion that the R will get the 2.5l engine that's in the current TTRS and which is also likely to be in the new RS
Apologies, meant the TT Quattro sport 420
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Everything in the car is already in production in the VAG range, bar the engine which is going into production on the TTRS. It is an R with a bigger engine.
I was under the impression that VW would be using a heavily modified version of the 2.0l that's currently in both the GTI and R. There was no suggestion that the R will get the 2.5l engine that's in the current TTRS and which is also likely to be in the new RS
Apologies, meant the TT Quattro sport 420
This uses the EA888 2.0 and not the RS 2.5 engine, could quattro GmbH be dropping the 2.5 engine in favor of the more frugal and lighter EA888 block? :smiley:
This also means that there is still more room for performance out of the Golf R400... another 20bhp can be had... but this will probably be for the Audi RS3 / TTRS... 420/430bhp perhaps?
it could happen as EU guidelines get trighter on Co2 emissions etc.
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The audi TTS 420 concept has the EA888 2.0ltr engine in, but at 420ps not the 400 of the R400.
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The audi TTS 420 concept has the EA888 2.0ltr engine in, but at 420ps not the 400 of the R400.
This EA888 engine block is proving to be quite strong.... 420bhp so far.... wonder how much headroom is has for runing. :evil:
Personally I want the Golf R400....... :laugh: :rolleyes: :evil:
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It'll be A45 AMG money for sure, so mid £40k's.
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It'll be A45 AMG money for sure, so mid £40k's.
I think might be but probably in one high spec limited edition run.... the further upwards it goes past £40k the more my heart sinks..... :cry:
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It'll be A45 AMG money for sure, so mid £40k's.
I think might be but probably in one high spec limited edition run.... the further upwards it goes past £40k the more my heart sinks..... :cry:
The fact is if we were all in a position to spend £40k in the first place then at a minimum we would have all bought the R. Unless your financial circumstances have improved massively in the last 12 months then I don't understand how people can go from a £25k car to looking at one which is potentially over £40k???
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I think they'll be £42,990 or less with a single spec. That way it still undercuts the A45.
However, if it is a limited run they will sell for pretty much whatever price VW puts on it, so it could be higher. Residuals will be strong whatever, not that VW will care :)
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It'll be A45 AMG money for sure, so mid £40k's.
I think might be but probably in one high spec limited edition run.... the further upwards it goes past £40k the more my heart sinks..... :cry:
The fact is if we were all in a position to spend £40k in the first place then at a minimum we would have all bought the R. Unless your financial circumstances have improved massively in the last 12 months then I don't understand how people can go from a £25k car to looking at one which is potentially over £40k???
I could have bought the Golf R but decided against it as was too subtle imo.
The Golf R400 has those lovely wide arches :)
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I went for an R :)
Also, the residuals will mean people leasing or buying may be able to upgrade with little extra cost. My R was best part of £10,000 more than the Golf I spec'd but cost less than £20 a month more because a) I could get a bigger discount (which may not be the case on the R400) and because the residuals were projected to be much stronger.
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To give a better indication I originally spec'd up a GTI with keyless, winter pack and metallic paint. It was £326pcm
An R with the same extra's was £12 a month more. I'm currently paying £344pcm on my R that has Pret's, leather, keyless, winter pack and DCC. Although the leather isn't taken into account as I paid for that up front on the deposit. It would have added £30pcm.
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What in recent times have we got to go on? Never mind the 'not really limited editions because we sold loads more oops sorry'.
A1 quattro - 41k, 333 made and sold out no problem.
Beetle RSI - 52k, 250 made in 2006.
The Rallye the PR name checks was approx 25% more than a GTI at the time... so I guess that puts it at around 36k.
I feel that if I go and ask about an R400 at the local dealer they will look at me like :huh:
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[/quote] I could have bought the Golf R but decided against it as was too subtle imo.
The Golf R400 has those lovely wide arches :)
[/quote]
I'm not a fan either of the subtle looks of the R but in hindsight I would definitely have waited if I had known the price differential between it and the GTI was so small. I could have lived with the looks for the sake of 300bhp
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A three year old RS3 is still over £30,000. The decent ones are over £33,000, so in 3 years have done well considering it was a £40k car. In fact a fair few of them are over £35,000.
For every £30k 3 year old RS3, you have someone who part-exed it for £24k or maybe a little less if the dealership is greedy. Take any used forecourt car and the previous owner will have only seen 80% of the sticker price in part ex at best. £40k to £24k and that car has retained 60% of RRP, probably had a realistic GFV of 55% (£22k) and the dealer has added in £2k "equity" to sweeten the pot against the next car. Residuals to me are always about what i've lost in the ownership term, not RRP to 3 year old used forecourt sticker price.
More will be willing to drop this kind of money (£40-45k) on something with an Audi badge than a VW badge if these aren't seriously exclusive in the number out there.
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What in recent times have we got to go on? Never mind the 'not really limited editions because we sold loads more oops sorry'.
A1 quattro - 41k, 333 made and sold out no problem.
Beetle RSI - 52k, 250 made in 2006.
The Rallye the PR name checks was approx 25% more than a GTI at the time... so I guess that puts it at around 36k.
I feel that if I go and ask about an R400 at the local dealer they will look at me like :huh:
You're right the dealers, unless a total petrol head, won't have a clue.
The single spec idea above May be a realistic one.
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What in recent times have we got to go on? Never mind the 'not really limited editions because we sold loads more oops sorry'.
A1 quattro - 41k, 333 made and sold out no problem.
Beetle RSI - 52k, 250 made in 2006.
The Rallye the PR name checks was approx 25% more than a GTI at the time... so I guess that puts it at around 36k.
I feel that if I go and ask about an R400 at the local dealer they will look at me like :huh:
You're right the dealers, unless a total petrol head, won't have a clue.
The single spec idea above May be a realistic one.
My dealership is quite good but I do have a very close relationship with them.... they know I am a Volkswagen nut :rolleyes:
I think Volkswagen should do the one spec, one colour, limited run production... :)
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To give a better indication I originally spec'd up a GTI with keyless, winter pack and metallic paint. It was £326pcm
An R with the same extra's was £12 a month more. I'm currently paying £344pcm on my R that has Pret's, leather, keyless, winter pack and DCC. Although the leather isn't taken into account as I paid for that up front on the deposit. It would have added £30pcm.
Bloody hell that's cheap, what deposit did you put down if you don't mind me asking?
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I initially was putting down £5000 but added leather and put down £7000 so that the monthly payment was kept down. That also includes £30 PCM service plan so I never pay for tyres or brake components. The £326 for the GTi was also based on £5000 down IIRC
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Mine was...
£8500 deposit
£297.10pm over 36 months
15k miles pa
Final baloon payment of approx £12k
I thought that was ok.
I also saved £3936 off the list price.
Back on topic..... it really appeals to me that a car like the Golf R400 with its performance won't cost sports car money to maintain... afterall its still a Volkswagen.
I predict that the production version will be shown at a motorshow early 2015 with a summer launch.
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My monthly payments would have been £299 with a £8500 deposit and that includes the £30 a month maintenance. I got near as make no odds £4000 off the car too, 15,000 miles a year and £17,400 balloon payment.
That may seem off topic, but it proves that with the finance/lease options a £40,000 R400 may actually be very affordable because of the residuals.
And yeah, the performance compared to running costs is much better than most of the conpetition.
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http://www.blog-moteur.com/7930/volkswagen-golf-r400-nouvelles-images-tarif-devoile.html
Love the colour choices - mint green please :tongue:
and only 45k :evil:
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180 co2 what tax bracket is that?
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I have contacted the source of the images and he has told me it was pulled from the French Volkswagen site via some digging about. :whistle:
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180 co2 what tax bracket is that?
Band I 176 - 185 Co2
First year £345.00
Future years £225.00
:smiley:
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Some real cheap and nasty boy racer colours in that lot. :cry:
Apart from all the cheap looking plastic carbonfibre that was done to death in the 90s and looks like it crashed into helfords. I do like the ideal of a 400ps wide arched golf..
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Some real cheap and nasty boy racer colours in that lot. :cry:
Apart from all the cheap looking plastic carbonfibre that was done to death in the 90s and looks like it crashed into helfords. I do like the ideal of a 400ps wide arched golf..
I like carbon so I guess it's down to personal preference.
They used carbon for weight reduction and it's strength.
All the splitters & diffusers are to help aerodynamics.
I think that with the carbon parts... white, silver or black would look good... not sure about different colours with black carbon bits mmm
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Carbon fibre isn't light, it has a good weight to strength ratio, which is different.
It seems a little pointless on the R400. The only visible bits are on the grills on the bumpers. These parts do not need the strength of carbon fibre and the weight would be no different to the black plastic used on the R and GTI. In fact it would only serve to push the price up as plain black plastic would do the exact same job.
The alternative is that the entirety of the bumper is carbon fibre and they only painted part of it. Which would still be pretty pointless. If they were serious about saving weight weld be looking at carbon fibre doors, bonnet, tailgate, roof and so on.
It seems the carbon fibre is purely aesthetic. I'd rather have plain black plastic and pay a few grand less for the car.
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I have contacted the source of the images and he has told me it was pulled from the French Volkswagen site via some digging about. :whistle:
Stunning post edit! Not think it's all fake any more then? :tongue:
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I have contacted the source of the images and he has told me it was pulled from the French Volkswagen site via some digging about. :whistle:
Stunning post edit! Not think it's all fake any more then? :tongue:
Lol well I just thought I would remain neutral for now regarding if its fake or not.... :grin:
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** Update ** :sad:
Ref. no.: VW-2014/05-015032
8 May 2014
Dear Mr [removed],
Thank you for your e-mail and your interest in our vehicles. As we are continuously motivated to offer as perfect automobiles as
possible, the suggestions of our customers are always welcome.
The R400 is a design study, and there are currently no plans to bring it into production.
Therefore, we request your understanding that, as a matter of principle, we cannot make any statements with regard to future
alterations beforehand. Dependable information is only possible when firm production plans are known and all other aspects such
as marketing, servicing and up-to-date literature are concluded. Only then official information from the factory is given wide
coverage, which of course, includes our respective importers and their dealers.
We hope that we could be of your assistance.
Yours sincerely,
i.V. Holger Andres i. A. Valerio Diego Giorgi
Volkswagen AG
38436 Wolfsburg
Tel +49 (0) 1806 890000**
Fax +49 (0) 1805 329865*
Mail to customercare@volkswagen.de
Homepage http://www.volkswagen.de
:cry:
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I wouldn't worry about that ^^^
When I was on the Audi forum someone had emailed Audi asking about the S1 and when it would be out. Audi replied with a similar response to the one above yet 3 days later it was announced it was going into production.
There is no way they are going to tell the mere mortals until they officially release it.
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-considering-production-golf-r400 (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-considering-production-golf-r400)
:cool:
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-considering-production-golf-r400 (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-considering-production-golf-r400)
:cool:
10 speed DSG!! Wow
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I seriously like this car. Shame all I see when I look at the front bumper is a twirly moustache.
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It will have more gears than my push bike.
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I seriously like this car. Shame all I see when I look at the front bumper is a twirly moustache.
That's not a bad thing. It truly is a gentlemans racer :)
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10 speed DSG!! Wow
utterly pointless.
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10 speed DSG!! Wow
utterly pointless.
not really, it will handle the torque output of the R400 engine and also reduce fuel consumption at high gear :)
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10 speed DSG!! Wow
utterly pointless.
How so? As far as I can tell it is in response to new EU rules tightening emissions. It can also handle a lot more power than the current 6 speed DSG, which isn't new technology anymore.
Finally, it will be able to suit the power of these hyper hatches better than the current 6 speed. Remember that the R is all but double the power of a GTI...
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It's amazing what you find when you do a bit of snooping on the internet :grin:. Looks like someone has found a dealership that has actually taken their order for a 400. It's obviously still a big assumption that the car will indeed be built
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx40/CraigW_01/image-43.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/user/CraigW_01/media/image-43.jpg.html)
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Fair play to the salesman that took that order!!! A "just in case" order with a refundable deposit so not that unusual.
Someone that can afford a 400 ain't gonna miss £500!
I'm with Snoops on the 10 speed gearbox. Sorry.
I respect the engineering and I appreciate the Euro laws the engineers have to work with are punitive but having had a good drive in a BMW 8 speed it just seemed a pain in the arse and needless.
Horses for courses and if you're the sort of person that would drive a 400 as it should be driven (on a track) then fair play, it'll be an awesome weapon.
But I suspect most owners will never unleash even half of the performance.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
Time for me to get an up! next time round :grin:
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Fair play to the salesman that took that order!!! A "just in case" order with a refundable deposit so not that unusual.
Someone that can afford a 400 ain't gonna miss £500!
I'm with Snoops on the 10 speed gearbox. Sorry.
I respect the engineering and I appreciate the Euro laws the engineers have to work with are punitive but having had a good drive in a BMW 8 speed it just seemed a pain in the arse and needless.
Horses for courses and if you're the sort of person that would drive a 400 as it should be driven (on a track) then fair play, it'll be an awesome weapon.
But I suspect most owners will never unleash even half of the performance.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
Time for me to get an up! next time round :grin:
i do find these i have put an order down on a car that doesn't exist type things sort of amusing
if you are a good enough customer your dealer will call you when you can
agree on daft number of speeds as car is always deciding what gear it should be in
now get your pipe and slippers out and pour yourself a horlicks :grin:
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My name is down at my dealership for the Golf R400, I didnt need to leave a single penny as they know me pretty well there.
Leaving a deposit for a car which hasnt been confirmed is crazy, surprised that the salesman was allowed to do it.
I have it in writing that if Volkswagen produce the R400, I have the first one from my dealerships allocation :)
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Some videos of the new R400
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuztaVjpWug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxmfrcRiLFQ
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Looks too much like competition in how they seek to style their performance cars.
Like the muscular look but the scoops needed to be taken back a notch and be just a little more subtle.
The R400 badge looks a little too elongated but obviously a minor irritant
However the yellow stripe looks truly awful and even cheap and though maybe will hold up against some colours will look terrible against others. If want to make it marquee then maybe a subtle gold would have been more the way. Or no stripe at all to make it 'different'
Never been too keen on stripe through headlight anyway but red gets away with it and silver more so but the bright yellow really does look aftermarket.
Would still love to drive it though :smiley:
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It does appear as though the R400 is going into full production next year. One dealer in Scotland has publicly announced today through social media that they will be taking deposits. :evil: :evil:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/VW-Golf-R420-2015-why-Volkswagen-is-readying-a-super-Golf-GTI/
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Awesome stuff if it hits production sooner than some of us were hoping for. However if you read the article on the link of CraigW's post it states first deliveries late next year, yet it will be at the Frankfurt Motor Show september next year. Realistically with these time scales, If my GTI was anything to go by, I cannot see it hitting franchise dealers forecourts for at least 4 -6 months after september at the earliest assuming it is released soon after Frankfurt Motorshow. This means it will be more like 2016 for first deliveries at the earliest. Also the article speculates the R400 will not be a limited edition car. I will be most certainly evaluating whether I can afford to purchase one one details and specifications of the car are firmed up closer to the time.
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S'ok.... more time for my winning ticket to come in :tongue:
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they are saying it will be shown at Frankfurt which is September time, based on the 7R you could order beginning of November and cars arrived March
i cannot see them appearing before March 2016 on UK roads, which is ideal timing for me
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I was wondering where I could go after having an R - now I know :laugh: Great news :evil:
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If the article is correct and it's not limited production that's even better news. Could mean discounts are possible :smiley:
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If the article is correct and it's not limited production that's even better news. Could mean discounts are possible :smiley:
And its coming out just when you'll be ready to change cars Craig! You have to get one!!
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According to the estimated price, would some of you really drop >£40k on one? Just think what else you can get for that kind of cash...
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If the article is correct and it's not limited production that's even better news. Could mean discounts are possible :smiley:
And its coming out just when you'll be ready to change cars Craig! You have to get one!!
Perfect time to change and a nice 40th present to myself :grin: :grin:
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According to the estimated price, would some of you really drop >£40k on one? Just think what else you can get for that kind of cash...
What else can you get for £40k that will have 400bhp, awd and not forgetting the huge standard spec you get with the car?
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It's a lot more money than the standard R, some will see it as little more than a remap, probably better seats and a lot of bodykit (which doesn't seem to be in line with the usual conservative VW styling) for £10k more. Not sure it'll have universal appeal to the typical VW fan. Looks like it's taken some of it's styling cues from hot Hondas.
I'm sure it'll be a fantastic drive, but it looks like VW gave an R up to Halfords for a makeover IMO.
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It's a lot more money than the standard R, some will see it as little more than a remap, probably better seats and a lot of bodykit (which doesn't seem to be in line with the usual conservative VW styling) for £10k more. Not sure it'll have universal appeal to the typical VW fan. Looks like it's taken some of it's styling cues from hot Hondas.
I'm sure it'll be a fantastic drive, but it looks like VW gave an R up to Halfords for a makeover IMO.
I'm not so sure MH. Anyone who has either a GTI or an R as their main car owns it for one reason and that's performance. The vast majority of these owners will be drooling at the prospect of a super hot hatch. Of course it's all very much dependent upon price point. The starting price for an R was a bit of a shock, perhaps it will be the same for this one :smiley:
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According to the estimated price, would some of you really drop >£40k on one? Just think what else you can get for that kind of cash...
What else can you get for £40k that will have 400bhp, awd and not forgetting the huge standard spec you get with the car?
You could easily be sitting in a 911 Turbo for that sort of money (and that would easily fulfil your requirements)... granted not a new one... I know where my money would go
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It's a lot more money than the standard R, some will see it as little more than a remap, probably better seats and a lot of bodykit (which doesn't seem to be in line with the usual conservative VW styling) for £10k more. Not sure it'll have universal appeal to the typical VW fan. Looks like it's taken some of it's styling cues from hot Hondas.
I'm sure it'll be a fantastic drive, but it looks like VW gave an R up to Halfords for a makeover IMO.
I'm not so sure MH. Anyone who has either a GTI or an R as their main car owns it for one reason and that's performance. The vast majority of these owners will be drooling at the prospect of a super hot hatch. Of course it's all very much dependent upon price point. The starting price for an R was a bit of a shock, perhaps it will be the same for this one :smiley:
Performance is just one aspect. That's where these cars (GTI and R) excel. It's that balance of performance, practicality and understated styling that appeals to many, not performance alone.
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According to the estimated price, would some of you really drop >£40k on one? Just think what else you can get for that kind of cash...
What else can you get for £40k that will have 400bhp, awd and not forgetting the huge standard spec you get with the car?
I hear what you are saying, but it's still a Golf that costs north of £40k. For a couple of thousand more I could pick up a 2013 Jag F Type (which I am just a little bit in love with at the moment), a 911 or an M3 etc. Heck, I could even bag a Masarati Granturismo for £35k. £40k opens up a lot of (IMO better) options, that's all I'm saying :)
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As said by others, you can get a pretty recent £60-70k (when new) proper sports car for same money as R400 will be new. It's a lot of money to carry the VW badge, rather like the Phaeton. For most wanting 400+ps, practicality will be at the back of their mind. At least standard Rs are less likely to be pinched when the R400 comes along. I'd rather see looking like a "wolf in sheep's clothing".
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Price point and standard spec will be the deciding factor for most of us. But I know if i could afford it I will be considering an R400, or at least looking in to the possibilities a lot more when the order books open.
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I can imagine people buying these and doing the exact opposite to the 1.2TSI "R" - taking all the external R styling off and replacing with standard R stuff. The external looks of the R400 have to be toned down when these go into production, it just looks very unVW in it's embellishment.
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I was quite excited when this was first announced, but I think it's wearing off.
It's powerful, but that will probably come with trade offs in other areas once the real car is available to look at, in the same way that the normal R loses boot space and fuel efficiency compared to the GTI. More importantly though, it looks terrible. The yellow looks really tacky and the front is ugly, as I imagine the insurance will be!
If you bought a normal R, tricked it up with all the options you want and tuned it up (for lower overall spend) how much power advantage would the R400 have left?
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I can imagine people buying these and doing the exact opposite to the 1.2TSI "R" - taking all the external R styling off and replacing with standard R stuff. The external looks of the R400 have to be toned down when these go into production, it just looks very unVW in it's embellishment.
I wonder though if that isn't the final look as the link to "car" states:
"Don’t worry: there is no Max Power bodykit lined up for this uber-Golf.
CAR understands that it’ll continue the understated, classy look of the GTI and R, but with a new spoiler and aero pack with splitters and extra addenda"
As the car shown certainly isn't understated.
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GTI has 2 pipes, R has 4.....Who's thinking the back end of the R400 will be looking like a church organ? :grin:
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I reckon the 2 exhausts on this video on the R400 are much more classy than the 4 on the R
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuztaVjpWug
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Yes the R400 will feature a central double exhaust taking inspiration from the R32 which looks the best in my opinion.
The R400 is celebrating Golf and it's years of being king. The car is taking various design inspirations from previous cars and making it into one car. In my opinion it looks brilliant, they don't need to tone anything down as this car is a celebration of VW's engineering feat so of course they want to shout about it for once. I think someone paying £40,000 with a car sub 4 seconds 0-60 wouldn't mind showing off in the styling department. Let's face it, it could be a lot more over the top if it wanted to be.
VW will be doing hardware changes to the R400 over the R, they never just do software tweaks. The benefit of the R400 is that you have an absolute monster of a car that would make short work of even a stage 1 R, while still being fully covered under warranty.
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According to the estimated price, would some of you really drop >£40k on one? Just think what else you can get for that kind of cash...
What else can you get for £40k that will have 400bhp, awd and not forgetting the huge standard spec you get with the car?
I hear what you are saying, but it's still a Golf that costs north of £40k. For a couple of thousand more I could pick up a 2013 Jag F Type (which I am just a little bit in love with at the moment), a 911 or an M3 etc. Heck, I could even bag a Masarati Granturismo for £35k. £40k opens up a lot of (IMO better) options, that's all I'm saying :)
I have to disagree with you there. Your forgetting what this is, a Golf, which gives you practicality and reasonable running costs still.
Sure you can have a 911, Maserati ect but this car would funnily enough be faster than all of those mentioned above while whipping them all in a 2L 4 Cylinder engine that just achieved 30MPG while taking your Grandma out to do her shopping (and fit it all in the boot).
You can buy a used Nissan GTR for the same price of an R, why didn't people do that? Because they want to beable to afford to run them! Invalid argument in my opinion and you can't even begin to compare cars with 4-5litres of engine capacity with a 2 litre Golf. You buy them for two completely different reasons.
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I agree with you Mr Savage.
I absolutely love everything about my GTI PP. The Golf R didn't do much for me with it's styling, but the Golf R400 ticks all the boxes for me. My personal opinion is the styling of the Golf R400 is closer to what the Golf R should have been styling wise.
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I like a car that stands out from the crowd and grabs your attention. One that is stylish but yet aggressive at the same time. I don't buy into this wolf in sheeps clothing thing. The R400 looks the dogs bollocks to me :evil: :evil:
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I second that, Me too :wink:
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I think the R400 will get toned down, with all the carbon I do not see it as a daily driver car, hopefully only 3 door dsg just to nicely limit market appeal
Mrs W has woken up to these now and receptive, would have to be a limited run for me
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I think the R400 will get toned down, with all the carbon I do not see it as a daily driver car, hopefully only 3 door dsg just to nicely limit market appeal
Mrs W has woken up to these now and receptive, would have to be a limited run for me
Why would they make it 3 door only? 5 door is the entire reason Golfs are popular for their practicality. It's coming with a DSG box but last I heard the engineers are still trying to design a new one that can cope easily with the power.
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Because with the current billy bolt on styling it will look sh!t on the five door and they would need to re engineer the doors if they keep the flares
Not going to get in a 3 or 5 door debate as have covered both bases given the wife's R on order is a more door
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Because with the current billy bolt on styling it will look sh!t on the five door and they would need to re engineer the doors if they keep the flares
Not going to get in a 3 or 5 door debate as have covered both bases given the wife's R on order is a more door
The article already states that the styling will be changing and that it's not the final design. VW will always keep the Golf available in both 3 or 5 door variant. That's one of it's main selling points.
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VW should grow a pair on this one and strip out a load of weight and make it like a club sport, for me rear strut brace and harnesses and no back seats appeals on a 3 door, if they are smart they could sell you R400 and rent you a more door R for 50p a month so all bases are covered
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A report 6 hours ago online says that the Golf R400 will be undergoing significant changes to the design with improved spoilers and splitters for increased downforce.
Apparently the car will also be renamed to the Golf R420 because they've squeezed an extra 20BHP out of it, taking it up to 309KW....the stated 0-62 time of 3.9 seconds was on the previous concept of 400BHP and 294KW so expect another couple of mili-seconds shaven off that time to 3.7 secs.
That put's it just behind the Pagani Zonda in terms of acceleration :evil:
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That put's it just behind the Pagani Zonda in terms of acceleration :evil:
Take my money, please! :laugh:
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I'm firmly in the camp that this should be a special model with special looks.
If you're going to produce a model that is three times as expensive as a base model car and has three times the power then at least make it look a bit special.
Yes, it should be a halo model proper with three doors and flared arches and f**k off big wheels and spoiler bits (by VW's conservative standards at least) and not just yet another model in an ever increasing sporty line up.
The sporty models are just getting more and more diluted in the Golf range with each new incarnation of 'more poweeeeeeerrrr' model, and although it's nice to have the choice it's all getting a bit much.
When I was 18 or 19 and bought my first GTI with 110bhp this was the stuff dreams were made of; a 420bhp Golf with 4wd, nearly four times the power and all wheel drive to boot, so yes, make this a slightly lairy uber desirable special hatch, built in very limited numbers with a very focussed brief. I'm not so sure on the stripped out theme unless they do it in two variants, a lighter stripped out Rallye and a loaded Lux version maybe?
Oh, and if they're leasing them for 50p a month then maybe I'll sign up this time instead of thinking "nah, I'm not signing up for two fixed years as there's bound to be something more appealing popping up within that time in todays mass produced throw away market" :wink:
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But what a pity, all that power in a semi-premium Golf shopping trolley.
And in the case of Audi, all that power stuck inside the RS3 with frumpy bread van looks.
Both are incongruous products especially in a country with a 70 mph speed limit and rubbish roads.
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VW are just doing what VW have always done.
They won't risk 35 years of bulding their image.
Audi is doing what modern from mid 90s Audi has always done.
If they let SEAT loose with that engine and release there control on SEAT alittle you may get yours stripped out more focused car.
VW isn't Renault.
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Asker, you're alive and well!?!! :kiss:
And with a 'son of Wolfgang' on order? You've got over your hate of the mk7 styling?
Personally I don't think the UK market was a consideration on the R400/420 brief, VW are just having a pop back at BMW and Merc for muscling in on their lucrative hot hatch domination, whilst promoting the MQB platform.
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Asker, you're alive and well!?!! :kiss:
And with a 'son of Wolfgang' on order? You've got over your hate of the mk7 styling?
Andy, I am alive, well and retired. Fabulous. Work turned out to be a 4 letter swear word.
Yes, I have overcome the Mk7 GTI front styling as there is no red lipstick in the headlamps of the 7R.
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That's because the 7R has absolutely no frontal styling! :laugh:
Good to see you're back in action and glad retirement is suiting you well. :smiley:
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That's because the 7R has absolutely no frontal styling! :laugh:
Good to see you're back in action and glad retirement is suiting you well. :smiley:
Let's say semi-retired from the full-time nightmare day job. I am still selling my body (when needs must) in the Private Sector.
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I'd imagine that was more rewarding in more ways than one rather than flogging yourself to death in the public sector. Sad but true.
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I'd imagine that was more rewarding in more ways than one rather than flogging yourself to death in the public sector. Sad but true.
The pubic sector is buggered, shafted and in its death throws.
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This car is going to be amazing in every single possible way. Everyone saying your'll never use all that power on UK roads are deluded. Probably not on your commute during rush hour but that's like saying why build any cars over 200BHP?
The R420 will be an engineering milestone and if it's priced at 40,000 without the 50p a month leasing deals the R was diminished by then I can see it being exactly what the R should have been. A flagship model that actually is relatively rare.
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Jeez, after a speech like that you've got me sold on one Savage!
Only one slight issue - I'd need a 50p lease deal!!!
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Jeez, after a speech like that you've got me sold on one Savage!
Only one slight issue - I'd need a 50p lease deal!!!
You're so easily swayed :grin:
Not sold me, needs to try a bit harder :tongue:
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I'd imagine that was more rewarding in more ways than one rather than flogging yourself to death in the public sector. Sad but true.
The pubic sector is buggered, shafted and in its death throws.
All because of this Tory government!
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I'd imagine that was more rewarding in more ways than one rather than flogging yourself to death in the public sector. Sad but true.
The pubic sector is buggered, shafted and in its death throws.
All because of this Tory government!
True.
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The pubic sector is buggered, shafted and in its death throws.
^^
I work in the public sector. Having to take more and more work home at weekends/evenings, as there's about 2 of us left do do the work of 900!
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Jeez, after a speech like that you've got me sold on one Savage!
Only one slight issue - I'd need a 50p lease deal!!!
You're so easily swayed :grin:
Not sold me, needs to try a bit harder :tongue:
I must be an advertising exec's dream!
Or I'm just a tart!
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:whistle:
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The pubic sector is buggered, shafted and in its death throws.
All because of this Tory government!
True.
Yes the good ol days under labours 13 years, when we were all highly paid and departments weren't sold off at all. Its those nasty Tories that in 4 years have been soo bad... :whistle:
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I think I want a R400 even more now
http://youtu.be/tgEENdIpdpQ
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Sounds very appealing but I'm still not convinced about the "lemon yellow" accents.
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With the new RS3 details now released i wonder if VW will actually have the balls to release a hatch with more power than its in house cousin.
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Sounds very appealing but I'm still not convinced about the "lemon yellow" accents.
It says in one article that the final production car will also be aesthetically more conservative in comparison to the concept car.
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Very off topic, but here are the details of the Audi RS3 Sportback, 362 bhp, 0-60 in 4.3 secs. Strange it is not as powerful or as fast as the Golf R400.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/rs3/89760/362bhp-and-174mph-its-the-new-audi-rs3-sportback?_mout=1&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter
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Probably leaves room for an RS Plus version in a year or so, as there has been with the TTRS and RS6 in the past
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Probably leaves room for an RS Plus version in a year or so, as there has been with the TTRS and RS6 in the past
Re-mapping a 7R or adding a DTUK box will make it faster. Cheap solution for erstwhile owners. However, bang goes the VW Warranty. Nightmare if the turbo goes bang! Anyway, too risky for me.