GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: ydkSinisteR on 03 March 2005, 01:20
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I put an K&N induction kit on my MK2 gti and i say to any1 out there who wants a fast gti to get 1, i can now reach 70mph in 2nd gear its just absoulty crazy its so fast now i can leave cars so much easier. I also put in the best Denso sparks and Denso HT leads they are insaine to they always start fast and they add bhp. But every1 get a K&N induction kit they really are the mutha f**k*r!!!!! :evil:
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:wink: hi mate, sounds good. Is yours a 16v or 8v. Can you post a link to the part you fitted. Cheers :cool:
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your car should reach more than 50mph in 2nd without a k&n, 8v or 16v :boggle:
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My mk2 1.8gl can do 55 in 2nd, and that is totally stock!
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:wink: the car can easily do that speed now but Im looking for a Filter and am at step one. Any feedback from prev users is appreciated. cheers :cool:
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you should hit 60mph, on the dot, as soon as u hit the limiter in sec, :evil:
i had a k&n on my 8vmrk2 they do sound good :cool:
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I put an K&N induction kit on my MK2 gti and i say to any1 out there who wants a fast gti to get 1, i can now reach 50mph in 2nd gear its just absoulty crazy its so fast now i can leave cars so much easier. I also put in the best Denso sparks and Denso HT leads they are insaine to they always start fast and they add bhp. But every1 get a K&N induction kit they really are the mutha f**k*r!!!!! :evil:
(?????) ? :huh:
I can get well over 60mph out of my very standard gti in 2nd gear ?
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Hi yeh sorry i never ment to put down 50mph its 70mph in 2nd typing error. yeh it can reach 70mph in 2nd i just dont have to change gear at all now its mad, mine is an 8v for the person who asked.
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one dying gearbox!!! and the engine's trying to book a holiday :grin:
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LOL, na its just called Performance parts, coz my engine has totally been changed, ive changed everything its all new and all new parts i got most of them from extrem motorsport in harlow, i even put on a breather on my engine that goes on the end of a Skyline R34's turbo kit lol. But as for dying gearbox na man that can take it ive had the gear ratio highered so they can go loner than usual!! Also changed it to 4 wheel proper breaking Brembo 40 grove disks in front and back thats serious breaking power!!
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if you keep revving your engine like that, your gonna have 8 small holes in the bonnet where the vavles have been launched into space mate! :grin:
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I went to harlow motorsport last weekend, its all alloys in the shop now, :sad:
But i went there a few years back and they had loads of stuff.
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Lol valves into space i like that! But yeh in Harlow they got alot of alloys but they get everything on order like my K&N they got the catalouge and my Denso sparks and HT leads, they can get more or less anything its just all on order! There sayin next if i wanna make it faster i should bore out the pistons or get mad new cam stuff has anyone done that to there car?
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and now for my next trick
2nd gear in mk2 8v gti's is only geared to 59.8mph so dont believe your speedo!
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ok ok y not? so ur telling me with enough enhancements that its not possible? you seriously dont know much bout cars to say that, my mate has a toyota Supra RZ his 3rd gear standard use to go to about 95mph before he had to change he put a HKS filter in it now his 3rd goes to 110mph so explain that if its impossible, do u even know what K&N's and things like that do? They give more torque and strength in the lower gears and that has been proven by many tests and magazines, so next time look ur facts up mate :smiley:
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at the end of the day your only as fast as your gear box,
enginie mods just get you there faster :smiley:
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induction kits rarely work unless amazingly heat shielded in a way that they cant suck in any of the hot engine air that they are vulnerable to. i think its more likely it 'felt' faster. i've tried various induction kits on my 8 valve and i've always gone back to a panel filter.
i also have a friend who owns a tuning company and he specialises in g60 tuning. every time he gets a car in with an induction kit he swaps it back to the standard air box, when the owner is after more power.
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1st of all gtijoe ur golf looks nice i have to say! yeh i had a few things done at once they put the kit on and the same time a full engine exhaust system so i could tell the difference straight away it feels alot faster more go go at the lights and when im off not only can i hear the exhaust i can hear the K&N it ratels nice but i think all over all the enhancements have improved my ride!
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Not totally true.
Induction kits work well if they are in the right place, like at the front left in the wing.
This is where mk2/3 gti's have the box so they will not really be affected by hot air, as when the car is in foward motion it will get plenty of cold air.
Saying that, a drilled airbox and a performance panel filter get the same result, just cheaper ?:laugh:
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thanks ydk, was only trying to be constructive, as vr6 says a decent panel filter in a modified airbox will do just the same job. its probably working nicely now because its frickin cold at the moment but it may suffer in summer. i'd like to make a pipe to have the filter down behind the bumper so you get all the cold air and no heat!
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I can't speak for an 8v, but on a vr6 it makes a huge difference.
I had an induction kit on the vr, it was great apart from there was a horrible whistling noise between 2000 and 3000 rpm.
I put a standard air box back in with a standard filter, and the engine was so flat, no power until over 4000 rpm.
I drilled the box wing side, and removed the trumpet, put a k&n panel in, and bloody hell what a difference.
The pick up is amazing, just to emphasise the point, with a k&n on it, the traction control cuts in 1st gear, if i really hammer it (i've got sh!t cheap front tyres), this didn't happen at all with a standard airbox.
I'd like to see the so called internet 'experts' that reckon filters just make a noise explain that one.
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Lol valves into space i like that! But yeh in Harlow they got alot of alloys but they get everything on order like my K&N they got the catalouge and my Denso sparks and HT leads, they can get more or less anything its just all on order! There sayin next if i wanna make it faster i should bore out the pistons or get mad new cam stuff has anyone done that to there car?
seroiusly DONT bore the pistons your compression will suffer badly it you put holes in them? ?:laugh:? :laugh:? :laugh:
read a book about engine mods where htey used a dyno to measure the differnce and the consensus was that a filtre only add 1-2 bhp over simply putting a new clean filtre in
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i'm not saying they dont work AT ALL, just in my experience of 8 valves they dont! on my car i've gone back to air box, k&n panel filter, removed trumpet/baffle etc drilled wing side and with a cold air feed coming in from the bottom routed to the front bumper.
which internet expert said they just make a noise?
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my motorbike does about 90 mph in first gear. but the engine wouldnt last long if you do it all the time as higher revs=more bore wear etc as the engine is moving round more per mile
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read a book about engine mods where htey used a dyno to measure the differnce and the consensus was that a filtre only add 1-2 bhp over simply putting a new clean filtre in
Yeah its usually a percentage actually, about 5% ish.
Also filters will make most difference low to mid range revs, rather than top end.
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which internet expert said they just make a noise?
On here, and on most popular forums.
People that don't understand basic physics :laugh:
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end of the day the induction kit is making the car more responsive due to the increased airflow over the std airbox. same idea as drilling the std box will also increase the airflow
it wont make the car any faster top end, it will just make it get there quicker!
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which internet expert said they just make a noise?
On here, and on most popular forums.
People that don't understand basic physics :laugh:
oh i know what you mean, there is always someone who knows better!!
but while were talking physics cold air is denser than hot air so the more cold air the better, as for the same volume of both the cold air will contain more oxygen. by thier design induction kits allow engine heat to get sucked in with the cold air so can produce detrimental effects.
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That is correct to point. But only if the airbox is behind the engine.
On mk2/3 gti/vr6 the induction kit sits right under the wing.
So basically when the car is in foward motion, it will only suck in cold air.
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This is exactly the same principle as the cooling system.
The radiator is at the front so is cooled be the in rush of cold air when the car is in foward motion.
It doesn't get heated up by engine heat :laugh:
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the warm air thing is only a factor when the car is at a stand still. even at the slowest speeds aka 20mph there is still enough cold air being forced into the engine bay to extract the warm air
you know what its like when you stick your hand out the window at 70mph, well think about the much cold air then is being forced into the engine bay then. you wont be sucking any hot air!
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well all i know is everytime i tried an induction kit i lost power. i put it down to the heat thing as that is the most common fault of induction kits.
but i guess we are all in agreement that cold air good, hot air bad!
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ok ok y not? so ur telling me with enough enhancements that its not possible? you seriously dont know much bout cars to say that, my mate has a toyota Supra RZ his 3rd gear standard use to go to about 95mph before he had to change he put a HKS filter in it now his 3rd goes to 110mph so explain that if its impossible, do u even know what K&N's and things like that do? They give more torque and strength in the lower gears and that has been proven by many tests and magazines, so next time look ur facts up mate :smiley:
If thats aimed at gambit, i wouldn't under estimate his knowledge of cars! anyway, you car wont go faster in a certain gear than what it is geared to do. so adding an air filter isnt really going to change the ratio of the gears!!!! its just gonna force more air into the engine = more power, not top end speed out of a gears ratio, duh!!
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well all i know is everytime i tried an induction kit i lost power. i put it down to the heat thing as that is the most common fault of induction kits.
How can you actually lose power?
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well all i know is everytime i tried an induction kit i lost power. i put it down to the heat thing as that is the most common fault of induction kits.
How can you actually lose power?
compared to panel filter in airbox, my car just felt sluggish and picked up badly
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obviously i didn't rolling road it before and after so can't prove an actual loss but i also trust my tuning friend from his decades of experience. if hes got a panel filter in his f**king quick 16vg60, then thats good enough for my 8v!
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I think that an induction kit and a drilled box/sports filter do the same thing.
Just cheaper to do the panel filter option :laugh:
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yeah i know what your saying, but i think the induction kit definately needs somekind of heat shield to get the best from it on an 8valve.
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Should be the same on 8v/16v/vr6 in theory :undecided:
As the airbox is in the same place :laugh:
I suppose it also depends if you don't mind destroying your airbox.
I used a 25mm spade to drill my airbox :laugh:
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I drilled 28 holes in my airbox.... :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :undecided:
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Like i said b4 which no 1 seems to have read is {I had the gear ratio of all the gears extended so they can go longer!!} So i was told by K&N that what the induction kit will do is GIVE more TORQUE in lower gears eg:2nd so now my car can hit 70mph b4 i have to change to 3rd when b4 i use to change at 65mph, so to me it shows that i have added the K&N it does the job as K&N said!
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Oh yeh and jus to add the K&N has a real sexy noise to it, its like a nice rattling noise and that adds to the overall effect of getting a kit on it. But can someone explain abit more why they drilled holes into the top of the induction kit, what bennefits will that do for the car if i drill it and if i leave it thanx.
I also have a website with my car and my m8s celica www.ydk.org.uk (http://www.ydk.org.uk)
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Like i said b4 which no 1 seems to have read is {I had the gear ratio of all the gears extended so they can go longer!!} So i was told by K&N that what the induction kit will do is GIVE more TORQUE in lower gears eg:2nd so now my car can hit 70mph b4 i have to change to 3rd when b4 i use to change at 65mph, so to me it shows that i have added the K&N it does the job as K&N said!
if you extended the gear ratio's you've inturn decreased your acceleration.......sensible
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Why would you want to drill an induction kit? ?:laugh:
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Well my acceleration is the same to me it dont seem any different and the ppl that did it are Professionals i think they know what there doing otherwise they wouldnt do it. And also i swear someone said they drilled 28 holes in their induction kit, thats why i asked that.
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do you mean the airbox
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just get an intercooler, or route the air intake through the air-con :wink:
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and the ppl that did it are Professionals i think they know what there doing otherwise they wouldnt do it.
Not necessarily
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just get an intercooler, or route the air intake through the air-con? :wink:
Why would you want to do that on a naturally aspirated engine?
It won't achieve anything ?:laugh:
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Just to add to the gearing argument ?:laugh:
It is possible to get a faster top speed in each gear, it isn't completely governed by the gearbox.
For example if you turbo charged an 8v gti you would probably put a few mph on the lower (shorter) gears, on the higher (longer) gears there would be a more noticeable difference, ie. top speed.
The only way to increase speed in gear is for either to change the gears or tune the engine to produce a lot more torque top end. As the gear is only a multiplier of the torque the engine produces.
Just to add also an air filter won't really do enough to increase top speed in gear ?:laugh:
So in general, a huge increase in torque will increase top speed in each gear, more the higher the gear. As mentioned earlier, rather than being that noticeable the car will reach the top speed much quicker.
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:shocked: there was a ram air induction kit on my mk2 8 valve when i bought it and it makes a hell of a difference, its actually quite a bit quicker than my jetta 16v, would definitely recommend one and they aint that expensive from what ive seen :laugh:
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Just to add to the gearing argument ?:laugh:
It is possible to get a faster top speed in each gear, it isn't completely governed by the gearbox.
For example if you turbo charged an 8v gti you would probably put a few mph on the lower (shorter) gears, on the higher (longer) gears there would be a more noticeable difference, ie. top speed.
The only way to increase speed in gear is for either to change the gears or tune the engine to produce a lot more torque top end. As the gear is only a multiplier of the torque the engine produces.
Just to add also an air filter won't really do enough to increase top speed in gear ?:laugh:
So in general, a huge increase in torque will increase top speed in each gear, more the higher the gear. As mentioned earlier, rather than being that noticeable the car will reach the top speed much quicker.
would only increase top speed as 5th gear is generally a bit tall for most engines (they are more often overdive gears), in any gear upto 3rd all cars can be burried into the red line with or without tuning (revlimited cars aside), if you want to go faster in each gear without changing gear or diff ratios (wheels too) you can only do this by adressing the reasons why you have a red line.
maximum revs are governed by factors such as
mechanical stress of components ie how fast they can be spun before they disintegrate (a 1" square area of clutch basket on a motorcycle which is alloy has an effective weight of ?around a ton @ 1400 rpm due to centrifugal force).
the strength of the con rod to hold the piston (very high rpm but another reason for short skirt and alloy pistons).
the length of stroke of the engine (the longer the stroke the faster the piston has to move hence the greater the stress), (this also governs power to torque to a degree depending on tuning, generally a short stroke=high power but lower torque, and vice versa)
keeping pistons and valves seperate, so....
the strength of valve springs and valve bounce.
the duration of valve opening.
the valve timing (hence vernier cam gear)
(ducati use a system to overcome this called desmodue which basically consists of a lever both opening and closing the valve)
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Thats what i was saying sort of ?:laugh:
Even if you heavily tuned an engine the difference to the top speed in lower gears would be virtually unnoticeable.
Maximum revs have nothing to do with it.
The gear ratios are just that, a multiplier of the torque the engine produces.
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Thats what i was saying sort of ?:laugh:
Even if you heavily tuned an engine the difference to the top speed in lower gears would be virtually unnoticeable.
Maximum revs have nothing to do with it.
The gear ratios are just that, a multiplier of the torque the engine produces.
top speed in lower gear would definatly be unnoticeable, max revs would increase the speed you could get in each gear as you can spin the engine faster, and as the speed to the wheels is a function of rpm, through the same gears higher rpm will give an increase in top speed of lower gears, increasing power would only give you a faster top end if your 5th gear is overdriven i.e. you cannot obtain redline in top.
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Very technical and interesting but still not 100% correct.
Answer one question.
How come you can increase the top speed of a car by tuning it?
note.. this is with still using a standard gearbox.
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Also by increasing the speed of engine ie. redline, the top speed in lower gears would only increase marginally.
Infact by just increasing the top level rpm, the effect would be quite minimal.
Unless you are talking about the Honda Civic Type R, which is a very high revving engine.
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Also by increasing the speed of engine ie. redline, the top speed in lower gears would only increase marginally.
Infact by just increasing the top level rpm, the effect would be quite minimal.
Unless you are talking about the Honda Civic Type R, which is a very high revving engine.
i totally agree, just saying if you wanted to increase rpm with a standard box/diif it would be the only way.
my bike has a redline at 14000 igagine if it went at that :laugh:
some drag bikes have armour on the top/on the rider cause if their engine brake up the parts are like missiles :shocked:
the civic type r looks like fun it would be like driving a toy :cool:
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Thanks 888v :wink: - is it ST??? :rolleyes:
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yeh and thats what i was trying to get at b4 coz i had the car moded (put full exhaust on, K&N, Denso sparks etc and higher gear ratio) i was now able to reach 70mph in 2nd, like my m8s Supra RZ he put the HKS turbo onit and his 3rd goes 120mph i asked him yesterday its not 110mph, But thats y i was sayin K&N induction kit makes the world of difference coz it did 4 me. P.S has anyone like me put in the Iridium Denso sparks? if so tell me what differences u felt in the cold weather.
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Very technical and interesting but still not 100% correct.
Answer one question.
How come you can increase the top speed of a car by tuning it?
note.. this is with still using a standard gearbox.
if the 5th gear is tall, a lot of cars have 5th as an overdriven gear and as such cannot reach top speed in 5th as the power of the engine is insufficient.
if the car is capable of reaching top speed in 5th i.e. a true 5th gear not overdriven then no, you coudlnt
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yeh and thats what i was trying to get at b4 coz i had the car moded (put full exhaust on, K&N, Denso sparks etc and higher gear ratio) i was now able to reach 70mph in 2nd, like my m8s Supra RZ he put the HKS turbo onit and his 3rd goes 120mph i asked him yesterday its not 110mph, But thats y i was sayin K&N induction kit makes the world of difference coz it did 4 me. P.S has anyone like me put in the Iridium Denso sparks? if so tell me what differences u felt in the cold weather.
sorry but i find it hard to beleive on the basis of a standard box getting 60 and your modded one getting 70 you would not not loose acceleration by just changing the plugs and filtre, the max increase in bhp would only be around 6 and that would not be enough.
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Have to agree with Carrie. To make sustancial gains in power and torque creating top ends and accelaration you would have to pay alot of money to to just that. Yes a filter helps, but what about cams exhaust systems, gas flowed heads etc etc. These help increase in power but a extra 5BHP won't change a car dramatically.
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I gotta say, respect to carries knowledge of random car info that i've never shown before!!
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Well i dont agree with Carrie shes a Trick, when did i once say i had a standard gearbox? Dont assume it makes a fool of me and YOU!!!
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Well i dont agree with Carrie shes a Trick, when did i once say i had a standard gearbox? Dont assume it makes a fool of me and YOU!!!
yeh and thats what i was trying to get at b4 coz i had the car moded (put full exhaust on, K&N, Denso sparks etc and higher gear ratio) i was now able to reach 70mph in 2nd, like my m8s Supra RZ he put the HKS turbo onit and his 3rd goes 120mph i asked him yesterday its not 110mph, But thats y i was sayin K&N induction kit makes the world of difference coz it did 4 me. P.S has anyone like me put in the Iridium Denso sparks? if so tell me what differences u felt in the cold weather.
sorry but i find it hard to beleive on the basis of a standard box getting 60 and your modded one getting 70 you would not not loose acceleration by just changing the plugs and filtre, the max increase in bhp would only be around 6 and that would not be enough.
erm no offence but try reading this again? :wink:
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I am a little lost now. :undecided:
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^ changed it martz, not that used to using the quote thing
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Like i said b4 which no 1 seems to have read is {I had the gear ratio of all the gears extended so they can go longer!!} So i was told by K&N that what the induction kit will do is GIVE more TORQUE in lower gears eg:2nd so now my car can hit 70mph b4 i have to change to 3rd when b4 i use to change at 65mph, so to me it shows that i have added the K&N it does the job as K&N said!
induction kits are crap. plain and simple.
they get bolted onto cars with wild joy and the owners sit there convincing themselves "it must be faster". yeah right. louder maybe, faster? probably not. if you do happen to feel the extra 2bhp, its probably 2bhp you could gained by taking that raggidy old sh!t airfilter that came with the car out and putting a new one in in the first place.
lets face it - if you find your 8v a little pedestrain - which everyone apart from 8v owners do - then report it stolen, smash it into a lamppost and buy yourself something faster. like a milk float. and really live on the edge.
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I drilled 28 holes in my airbox.... :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :undecided:
so its not really an airbox is it? its more like a sieve. you should tell VW about your marvellous invention. bet they never thought about drilling holes in airboxes to get more power.
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Also by increasing the speed of engine ie. redline, the top speed in lower gears would only increase marginally.
Infact by just increasing the top level rpm, the effect would be quite minimal.
Unless you are talking about the Honda Civic Type R, which is a very high revving engine.
dont forget drag. not just a case of making the top gear taller, doesn't the drag also increase exponentially?
hence 200bhp = 150, 300 = 160, 400=170 and so forth. (not exact figures of course)
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would only increase top speed as 5th gear is generally a bit tall for most engines (they are more often overdive gears), in any gear upto 3rd all cars can be burried into the red line with or without tuning (revlimited cars aside), if you want to go faster in each gear without changing gear or diff ratios (wheels too) you can only do this by adressing the reasons why you have a red line.
maximum revs are governed by factors such as
mechanical stress of components ie how fast they can be spun before they disintegrate (a 1" square area of clutch basket on a motorcycle which is alloy has an effective weight of ?around a ton @ 1400 rpm due to centrifugal force).
the strength of the con rod to hold the piston (very high rpm but another reason for short skirt and alloy pistons).
the length of stroke of the engine (the longer the stroke the faster the piston has to move hence the greater the stress), (this also governs power to torque to a degree depending on tuning, generally a short stroke=high power but lower torque, and vice versa)
keeping pistons and valves seperate, so....
the strength of valve springs and valve bounce.
the duration of valve opening.
the valve timing (hence vernier cam gear)
(ducati use a system to overcome this called desmodue which basically consists of a lever both opening and closing the valve)
[/size]
you tell em shorty
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Well i dont agree with Carrie shes a Trick
no, shes quite mechanically gifted actually. you were out of your depth with her the moment you started typing...
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^^ i am in full flow today ?:grin:
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they still havent realised that when they replace an item on a car that effects performance and sticks on a new "performance" part, the increase they seen is probably very similar to that if they had just put a new part on.
and considering golfs are getting very old, its not suprising "my new K&N makes the car go faster".
anyway, who in their right mind spends money on their car and doesn't get a performance increase? its a p-e-n-i-s thing i think.
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my motorbike does about 90 mph in first gear. but the engine wouldnt last long if you do it all the time as higher revs=more bore wear etc as the engine is moving round more per mile
90mph in first gear ????? then you woke up.. unless you got a 500cc scooter, constant mesh gearbox.
i used to be a biker sorry about going off subject, but i find that hard to believe sorry
unless you got a hyabussa with one gear? :undecided:
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ok you win i looked it up.
On the other hand, the Kawasaki-comparatively high revving and with a narrower powerband-has a closer-spaced gearbox with a taller first gear (85 mph)
was a whole 5 mph out could change the rear sprocket i suppose.
and the hayabussa can only get 80 in first
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thats ok carrie, your forgiven.. ha ha ha ha and hello
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ragged my bmw today to get an idea of top speeds in second i got about 65 bouncing it off the rev limiter, and thats was with 2.8 straight 6 (forgot to add 5sp manual). it seems 2nd gear average is around the 60 mark, would be intersted to see what others get in second as i am curious now.
oh and hi peewee? :smiley:
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Whoooaaaa, tinman was on a mission to put the subject straight!!!!
Hungover, or pissed off by any chance???
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So to all the people out there who say putting on a performance part doesn't make a differnence, well i think it does because i have to use an extreme example now, if i put a Ferrari F40 engine in my golf GTI i think that counts as a performance part and YES i would notice the F-ing difference- so just coz the K&N induction kit aint on the same levels as an F40 engine y would it not make the car faster? Can anyone answer that? And dont put stupid answers down jus coz i said an F40 engine thank you :evil:
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Tinman, ok an 8v won't benefit that much from an induction kit.
But just to put you straight on one thing, you like many other people go on about overall power gains.
This is not what performance filters and exhausts are about.
The overall gains are never going to be that big, its the difference in the lower and mid range performance of the engine.
It simply becomes much more driveable, as the engine will be much more responsive, and will have more low/mid range torque available.
Thats what these kits are really about.
Also to anyone else, the idea that car manufacturers don't know about improving air intakes to improve power is obviously bollox, they restrict the air intake to keep noise levels to an exceptable level.
Its not exactly rocket science now is it? :laugh:
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Some interesting points and opinions here, so a question, is there any point in me putting on a panel filter and a powerflow exhaust to give a bit more oomph or not ? :undecided:
.....and no comments about not bothering on a hairdressers car either ! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Yeah deffo :wink:
Just don't expect miracles, it will do pretty much as i described :laugh:
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Cheers 6, I'm not expecting a million squillion more bhp but if it's pointless then I wasn't going to bother. :smiley:
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Thats ok, any time ?:kiss:
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So to all the people out there who say putting on a performance part doesn't make a differnence, well i think it does because i have to use an extreme example now, if i put a Ferrari F40 engine in my golf GTI i think that counts as a performance part and YES i would notice the F-ing difference- so just coz the K&N induction kit aint on the same levels as an F40 engine y would it not make the car faster? Can anyone answer that? And dont put stupid answers down jus coz i said an F40 engine thank you :evil:
The F40 engine is a 2.9 V8 unit with twin turbos giving 478bhp.
Here is the clue and its actually in the bit above that you wrote. Its not a "part", its an "engine". An engine is something that contains many many "parts". A Ferrari engine contains many many "performace" "parts".
Would it an F40 engine make your car faster, well, yeah, duh. But its not a performance part - its an whole F*CKING ENGINE. But then - so would a jet engine. Is a jet engine a "part" or am I getting a little "extreme"?
The one thing i will agree with you on though is that a K&N is not a Ferrari engine. Well spotted.
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Whoooaaaa, tinman was on a mission to put the subject straight!!!!
Hungover, or pissed off by any chance???
no, just the foresight to leave a miserable icy country for a few weeks for warmer tropics and i'm a bit behind on the forums.
did i mention that the weather today in Florida was 24 degrees C?
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so just coz the K&N induction kit aint on the same levels as an F40 engine y would it not make the car faster? Can anyone answer that?
1. cause the car was shagged in the first place...
2. everyone who puts these things on is desperate to convince themselves "its faster".
"no its faster i tell you, you see although i have no imperical data to back me up, i know its faster cause it said on the side of the box 'it'll make your car go faster' and the guy in the shop who took my money said 'it'll make your car go faster' and despite having no proof to back me up - my car really really is faster".
pulease...
now, lets get back to me drilling my airbox - cause that'll make my car go faster.....
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I can't speak for an 8v.
But Tinman, you really do talk rubbish.
Read my earlier post about using stock air box, induction kits, and drilled air boxes.
On a vr6 it does make a difference, its not just because 'i think' its better.
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I can't speak for an 8v.
But Tinman, you really do talk rubbish.
Read my earlier post about using stock air box, induction kits, and drilled air boxes.
On a vr6 it does make a difference, its not just because 'i think' its better.
my main issue regarding these upgrades is that the owners take off an old manky part - and stick on a new part and then claim a performance increase becuase of the "performance" part, when in actual fact, putting on a new VAG part would of got very similar results.
there are books that even show this with evidence to back it up. the one in mind used a Mk2 16v as the mule. the end conclusion that all these performance parts did virtually nothing for the car.
my other issue is that people put on these performance parts and offer no evidence to show better performance, apart from "it made my car go faster".
i have also seen cars that have had no K&N, and then the results with K&N - and the difference was negligable. And this was one two cars about 2 years old. the only thing the K&N did was make the engine louder and increased fuel consumption.
I've seen cars where people managed to put K&Ns on and damaged other components on their engine.
so I'm sorry, espeicially when it comes to K&N - there is a lot of mickey mouse physics going on, and depserate people trying to justify their "performance" part.
at the end of the day, it seems fairly clear, if you want a faster car, go buy one. or do what Dizzie did and stick stuffing great big engine in. but dont go to DesperateDubs or whatever they are called.
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Fact no.1 - Stock air intakes are restrictive.
Fact no.2 - Paper air filters are about as restrictive as you can get.
Its not mickey mouse physics at all. Open up say a 16v air box for example on a mk2. It is very restrictive to air flow.
Fact no.3 - Paper air filter do not flow as well as k&n filters(cotton fibre i believe)
Fact no.4 - Better air flow means better engine responsive.
Try drilling the wing side of the airbox on a 16v and remove the trumpet, then add a k&n panel filter.
It makes a considerable improvement to the driveability of the car, in general much better throttle reponse and improved mid range torque. It should be noted however that top end performance was not really noticeably improved.
I should know, i have owned 2 16v's.
I don't dispute that doing these mods will have a huge impact, they won't, that is obvious.
However its very basic physics, people that try to claim its false, well need to go back to school really :laugh:
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Just for you Tinman, i'm going to re-post what i put earlier in this thread. Make a comment on it if you wish :wink:
I can't speak for an 8v, but on a vr6 it makes a huge difference.
I had an induction kit on the vr, it was great apart from there was a horrible whistling noise between 2000 and 3000 rpm.
I put a standard air box back in with a standard filter, and the engine was so flat, no power until over 4000 rpm.
I drilled the box wing side, and removed the trumpet, put a k&n panel in, and bloody hell what a difference.
The pick up is amazing, just to emphasise the point, with a k&n on it, the traction control cuts in 1st gear, if i really hammer it (i've got sh!t cheap front tyres), this didn't happen at all with a standard airbox.
I'd like to see the so called internet 'experts' that reckon filters just make a noise explain that one.
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ur rite there 6, :wink:
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Fact no.1 - Stock air intakes are restrictive.
Fact no.2 - Paper air filters are about as restrictive as you can get.
Its not mickey mouse physics at all. Open up say a 16v air box for example on a mk2. It is very restrictive to air flow.
Fact no.3 - Paper air filter do not flow as well as k&n filters(cotton fibre i believe)
Fact no.4 - Better air flow means better engine responsive.
Try drilling the wing side of the airbox on a 16v and remove the trumpet, then add a k&n panel filter.
It makes a considerable improvement to the driveability of the car, in general much better throttle reponse and improved mid range torque. It should be noted however that top end performance was not really noticeably improved.
I should know, i have owned 2 16v's.
I don't dispute that doing these mods will have a huge impact, they won't, that is obvious.
However its very basic physics, people that try to claim its false, well need to go back to school really? :laugh:
damn those VAG Engine designers, they obviously know nothing about engine design....right, wheres my black&decker, i'm gonna drill an airbox...
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do you know what regulations, or restrictions etc are tinman? sorry silly question as you being the all knowing :angry:
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as the start of this thread states, k&n induction kit makes the world of difference!!!!. does it? oviously on some cars it does, on some cars not that much, down to your own taste me thinks, f**k physics, if you`ve got a car with standard suspension, and sh!t tyres with a k&n induction kit on is it going to go round a track quicker than the same car with coilovers and good tyres me thinks not, as i said before PERSONAL PREFERANCE. you`ve just got to think why you want one
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Fact no.1 - Stock air intakes are restrictive.
Fact no.2 - Paper air filters are about as restrictive as you can get.
Its not mickey mouse physics at all. Open up say a 16v air box for example on a mk2. It is very restrictive to air flow.
Fact no.3 - Paper air filter do not flow as well as k&n filters(cotton fibre i believe)
Fact no.4 - Better air flow means better engine responsive.
Try drilling the wing side of the airbox on a 16v and remove the trumpet, then add a k&n panel filter.
It makes a considerable improvement to the driveability of the car, in general much better throttle reponse and improved mid range torque. It should be noted however that top end performance was not really noticeably improved.
I should know, i have owned 2 16v's.
I don't dispute that doing these mods will have a huge impact, they won't, that is obvious.
However its very basic physics, people that try to claim its false, well need to go back to school really? :laugh:
damn those VAG Engine designers, they obviously know nothing about engine design....right, wheres my black&decker, i'm gonna drill an airbox...
Oh dear, you really don't understand do you?
Lets make it simple just for you Tinman, yet again.
VAG designers know everything about engine design, the air intake is DELIBERATELY restrictive to KEEP NOISE LEVEL DOWN.
I hope that puts it in simple enough terms for you.
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its really simple.
if you want speed - dont buy an 8v. save your money and do a Dizzie or buy something fast in the first place.
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its really simple.
if you want speed - dont buy an 8v. save your money and do a Dizzie or buy something fast in the first place.
Typical 16v owner :laugh:
I've got to agree with you there :laugh:
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oh dear oh dear oh dear :angry:
as the start of this thread states, k&n induction kit makes the world of difference!!!!. does it? oviously on some cars it does, on some cars not that much, down to your own taste me thinks, f**k physics, if you`ve got a car with standard suspension, and sh!t tyres with a k&n induction kit on is it going to go round a track quicker than the same car with coilovers and good tyres me thinks not, as i said before PERSONAL PREFERANCE. you`ve just got to think why you want one
i will say this only once PERSONAL PREFERANCE, if you`ve got a shagged engine with a k&n on and a sweet engine without which one`s going to run better me thinks the sweet engine
PERSONAL PREFERANCE :laugh:
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oh dear oh dear oh dear :angry:as the start of this thread states, k&n induction kit makes the world of difference!!!!. does it? oviously on some cars it does, on some cars not that much, down to your own taste me thinks, f**k physics, if you`ve got a car with standard suspension, and sh!t tyres with a k&n induction kit on is it going to go round a track quicker than the same car with coilovers and good tyres me thinks not, as i said before PERSONAL PREFERANCE. you`ve just got to think why you want one
i will say this only once PERSONAL PREFERANCE, if you`ve got a shagged engine with a k&n on and a sweet engine without which one`s going to run better me thinks the sweet engine
PERSONAL PREFERANCE :laugh:
not sure what you are "oh dear oh dear"ing about. i agree with you. alot of people on this forum think that an engine with 150k on it though is still sweet.
get it rebuilt properly - then you'll know what sweet is.
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ok, so lets put this simply on what i have read
The air filters that are put on a car by a manufacturer are restrictive due to regulations set by governments/EU, so this will impede the flow of air to the engine, hence marginally lower peformance acheived.
So either drilling the air box and removing the throat as '6 said, or putting a performance filter on, will increase the air flow to the engine, and if im not mistaken, this will improve the performance of the engine, but will not have a dramatic effect to it, or the top end speed of gears.
This to me seems a bit obvious because more airflow = more oxygen = better burn of the fuel!!!!
:smiley:
And '6 this is the most calm argument i have ever seen you partake in!!!
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You cant beat a few turbo stickers in the back window if you ask me :evil:
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Yeah im sure you get an extra 5 BHP for every sticker you put on your car so why the fook arn't i pushing 150bhp as well in my 8v... :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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dont forget the toyo/yoko stickers on your door. that improves grip no end...
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and the blitz 1's!!!!!!!! :grin: :grin:
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Mix, I am calm now these days :laugh:
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you on the love drugs then 6 :evil:
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Mix, I am calm now these days :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Nah its all the training, it calms me down ?:grin:
Saying that, i've been ill last few days so haven't been able to do anything, so getting a bit stressed ?:laugh:
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lack of sex 6, thats what it is
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Yeah, give us a kiss :kiss:
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looks likes free has pulled :grin:
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the oh dear bit is that you lot are were still on about a k&n induction kit
oh dear oh dear oh dear :angry:as the start of this thread states, k&n induction kit makes the world of difference!!!!. does it? oviously on some cars it does, on some cars not that much, down to your own taste me thinks, f**k physics, if you`ve got a car with standard suspension, and sh!t tyres with a k&n induction kit on is it going to go round a track quicker than the same car with coilovers and good tyres me thinks not, as i said before PERSONAL PREFERANCE. you`ve just got to think why you want one
i will say this only once PERSONAL PREFERANCE, if you`ve got a shagged engine with a k&n on and a sweet engine without which one`s going to run better me thinks the sweet engine
PERSONAL PREFERANCE :laugh:
not sure what you are "oh dear oh dear"ing about. i agree with you. alot of people on this forum think that an engine with 150k on it though is still sweet.
get it rebuilt properly - then you'll know what sweet is.
i was trying to put everyones points in one bag at the end of the day (i`ll say it one more time for everyone personal preferance) its all down to"you" what mods you do to your car, whether its any good or what other people think it doesn`t matter as long as your happy. yes ask for peoples opinion but at the end of the day its for yourself
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ooooooooooo corrin i never new you cared :kiss:
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Yep, do what ya like.
Just giving people the true facts, no bullsh!t ?:laugh:
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ooooooooooo corrin i never new you cared :kiss:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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lmao :grin: :grin: :laugh: :laugh: :wink:
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to add to the induction debate, i fitted a big 10cm dia. cold air feed going into my standard box instead of drilling holes (done the drilling holes on a spare box first), smoothed the inside like the mk4 boys do and i reckon its better than a drilled box :tongue: better responce etc :laugh:
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lol, this topic was to wicked! What was the final verdict then, is a K&N recommended to put on or not?
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in panel filter form yes, in induction kit form, maybe not.....on an 8 valve.... in my opinion stick to a panel filter
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Thanks 888v? ?:wink: - is it ST???? :rolleyes:
tried to find out but dunno if it is or not??? cant tell, i dint buy it, see:undecided:
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Golf+ this month has some top articles in it and one of them said that the best way to get more performance out of a car (not including putting different engines in, although there is an article on that too :tongue:) is all about getting it to breathe more efficiently. If anyone hasn't got it this month I advise you do, it was quite good timing for this thread really. :grin: