Use of long life oil in the GTI - THE opposite viewpoint !

[Teutonic_Tamer]

There never was a question about the wisdom of changing oil at 10,000 miles.
I think everyone accepts that.

OK, but I personally don't think you made that point very clear in your OP

There never was a question about the spec of the long life 3 oil being the "best".

Hmm - I'm not so sure.  The fundamental point of your first post was that engines were failing, and the absolute cause was the LongLife oil.  So to me, I take that kind of fundamental viewpoint from you as severly questioning the quality of the LongLife oils.  I certainly didn't see any previous posts from you defending in any way the LongLife oils! 

All I reported was that 2 VAG specialists who actually dismantle and rebuild engines,
and therefore see with mark 1 eyeball their condition,
have said that some of those that have used long life oil have been dirty and clogged,
those that haven't used it have been OK.

Now there could of course be lots of other reasons for each of these occurrences,
and we can all think of several,
and I don't believe that the cause-effect is in any way proven.

As I previously stated, I don't disagree that there has been previous issues with oil sludging.  However, I do strongly dispute the very simplistic view which you seem to be relaying - in that two companies who strip down engines and find them "dirty" inside can then categorically and absolutely blame it firmly on LongLife oils.

This opens a massive can of worms.

Firstly, what make of LL oil was used, and what spec of LL oil was used.  Secondly, were the requirements of the VW/Audi servicing schedules carried out to the letter, and were those cars on the LL regime actually used in full compliance with the LL regime requirements (ie, never going above 3,000rpm, doing more than 30miles in a single journey, not driving in a "sporty manner", etc).

Finally, the most crucial issue - do these two companies have more expertise than say Volkswagen, Fuchs, Castrol, Pentosin, Kluber, Bechem or the ACEA - and the vast masses of R&D and historical data they can all rely on - together with testing under strict laboratory "controled" conditions.  I don't think so.

So, whilst these two "specialists" may have unearthed some undesirable traits, on what may be a miniscule quantity of VAG engines - then sure, some eyebrows should be raised, and even questions asked.  But they should NOT be deemed as the authoritative "end-all" point of view.  And as I have pointed out, some very serious questions need asking of these four VAG specialists, because it would seem that not even two of them can agree on the basic fundamentals of the specific concerns raised in this thread.

BUT, the first hand experiences of others who don't happen to frequent this site,
I thought, was at least worth knowing about.
It was my surprise at the initial comment from the first VAG specialist - see first post -
that prompted that post in the first place.

Sorry if all this challenges any deeply held beliefs.

No appology needed from anyone, and thanks for sharing.  But I hope you see that even these so-called VAG specialists can be wrong too!   

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Cass,
I'm not aware of this potential issue having been raised on any other forums.
I have found this to be the most informative forum, and I don't have time to spend on the others as well.

Like I said, it was my surprise at the comments from the VAG specialist
that prompted me to ask on here if anyone else had heard similar things.
Clearly not.

5 minutes phoning round though and another VAG specialist does say something similar.
And just because others haven't come across problems, doesn't mean they don't exist.
It's the sort of thing that probably won't be obvious until something goes bang.

And that is a very valid point.  And let's not forget that VW/Audi stealers will be the very last in the queue to volunteer this kind of information (if it actually is a widespread issue).  However, as Cass rightly points out, the early TFSI engines are now out of warranty and are highly likely to be serviced and maintained outside the main dealer network.  So, if there was any issues with LongLife oils, then I'm absolutely certain that it would be more widely known about.

And another point of view, it is not just all the VW Group cars which use LongLife oils and servicing regimes - General Motors Europe (Vauxhall, Opel, Saab, Chevrolet), Daimler AG (formerly Daimler-Chrysler - Mercedes Benz and Smart), BMW AG (BMW, Mini, Rolls Royce) - to mention a few - all use LongLife oils and LongLife servicing regimes.  And do they have any "issues"?  Nope. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

i have just had mine serviced and like the OP was warned about longlife so did not opt for the longlife stuff this time - instead they have apparently put in mobil 1 10/40 ? Is this right? if so whats the exact stuff I need to keep spare (just in case) ?

That is NOT a good oil for the GTI.  It is actually shyte for any direct injection petrol engine.

I would recommend getting it changed for a correct spec oil from a European oil manufacturer.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Personally I recon that a lot of the problems that are attributed to the use of longlife oil. Are more due to the fact that people go onto the LL service regime but dont use the vehicle in the manner that its supposed to be used for when on the LL regime.

You are exactly correct.  Way too many people are advised to go on the LL servicing schedules, when their driving styles or vehicle useages categorically do NOT support the LL regime.

However, there is another more crucial point which no-one has yet stated . . . . and it would seem to be a very common issue here in Blighty.  Answers on a postcard to Teutonic_Towers, . . . .    

Me - I do a lot of short stop start journeys, so its on the time and distance deal. But if I blasted up and down motorways all day, then it would deffo be LL.

But do you also use the LL oils too?

thus if folks listened to what VW have spent a bucket of cash in R&D and followed the correct servicing recommendations there would be a lot less "percieved faults"

Exactly.  I would stick my neck on the block and state that 99.9% of all these associated engine faults, so readily blamed on LongLife servicing or LongLife oils - are actually categorically the fault of NOT complying with the strict requirements of the LongLife regime.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

i have just had my 3rd service at 28k  and the vw dealer said y has your car got long life oil in it as its on a 10k service not the 20k service so you have been ripped off on your last service  so they think as i got the oil cheap  so if u are on 10k service make sure they dont put longlife oil in as there is no point and you are being ripped off

Sorry, but that is complete bollox.  And that just proves that the VW stealers can not, and do not comply with the official Volkswagen specific recommendations. 

Yes, you can use the older spec 502.00 T&D oils, but those oils are clearly inferior to any of the LongLife oil standards.  Furthermore, ONLY the LongLife 3 oil standard has been specifically developed to cope with the additional problems which the direct injection system generates. 

So for them to state you have been "ripped off" if you use LL oils on T&D services is fundamentally incorrect, and more importantly, blatantly against VWUK and VWAG official advice. 

[Teutonic_Tamer]

every car i've owned in the last 10 years or so i have dropped the oil  and used Mobil 1 10/40, i shall do the same with the GTI in a few weeks, it's done 14k now and is on the LL service plan, i have no doubt like every other car i've done it with the GTI will run better with Mobil 1 and give an slight mpg increase too.

So every car you've owned has had a turbo, and FSI cylinder-direct fuel injection? 

I'll state again, Mobil 1 10w40 is NOT a good oil for the GTI, or indeed any modern car.  Furthermore, it does NOT comply with ANY of the current VW oil specification standards.  Finally, despite what Mobil may try and claim on the bottle, Mobil 1 10w40 is NOT a fully synthetic oil.  Mobil 1, just like the vast majority of american "fully synthetic" oils are infact just a semi-synthetic - in that they use "Group 3 basestocks" which are also known as "synthesised hydrocarbon fluids" (or SHFs for short) - which in basic laymans terms - is just a refined and modified mineral oil.  In the European Union, it is illegal for Group 3 basestocks to be classed as "synthetic" in any way.  The only way that Mobil 1 10w40 could even be described as "semi-synthetic" is simply because it also contains very small quantities of "Group 4 basestocks" known as PolyAlphaOelefins (PAOs) - which can be classed as synthetic.

For the "best" oils, particularly in a turbo engine, then you need to look for an oil forumlated from the absolute pinnacle of basestocks, namely "Group 5 basestocks", also known as "Esters" (and Ester derivatives and analogues, such as Diesters and Triesters).  Group 5 basestocks are not widely available in the North American continent, which is why US/Canadian originated "synthetics" only use Gp3 SHFs (not a real synthetic) or Gp4 PAOs.  However, most (and I'll say that with a caveat) European oil manufacturers, the quality ones at least, generally use Gp5 Esters as their basestocks.  I know for definate that Castrol (and the BP Visco - because Castrol is owned by BP), Fuchs and Motul all routinely use Esters as basestocks.  TotalFinaElf, Pentosin and Agip are all unable to give definative advices on their basestocks.  So perhaps you can see why I actively discourage the use of any "american" oil, and positively recommend either Castrol, Fuchs or Motul. 

[TagnuT]

every car i've owned in the last 10 years or so i have dropped the oil  and used Mobil 1 10/40, i shall do the same with the GTI in a few weeks, it's done 14k now and is on the LL service plan, i have no doubt like every other car i've done it with the GTI will run better with Mobil 1 and give an slight mpg increase too.

So every car you've owned has had a turbo, and FSI cylinder-direct fuel injection? 

I'll state again, Mobil 1 10w40 is NOT a good oil for the GTI, or indeed any modern car.  Furthermore, it does NOT comply with ANY of the current VW oil specification standards.  Finally, despite what Mobil may try and claim on the bottle, Mobil 1 10w40 is NOT a fully synthetic oil.  Mobil 1, just like the vast majority of american "fully synthetic" oils are infact just a semi-synthetic - in that they use "Group 3 basestocks" which are also known as "synthesised hydrocarbon fluids" (or SHFs for short) - which in basic laymans terms - is just a refined and modified mineral oil.  In the European Union, it is illegal for Group 3 basestocks to be classed as "synthetic" in any way.  The only way that Mobil 1 10w40 could even be described as "semi-synthetic" is simply because it also contains very small quantities of "Group 4 basestocks" known as PolyAlphaOelefins (PAOs) - which can be classed as synthetic.

For the "best" oils, particularly in a turbo engine, then you need to look for an oil forumlated from the absolute pinnacle of basestocks, namely "Group 5 basestocks", also known as "Esters" (and Ester derivatives and analogues, such as Diesters and Triesters).  Group 5 basestocks are not widely available in the North American continent, which is why US/Canadian originated "synthetics" only use Gp3 SHFs (not a real synthetic) or Gp4 PAOs.  However, most (and I'll say that with a caveat) European oil manufacturers, the quality ones at least, generally use Gp5 Esters as their basestocks.  I know for definate that Castrol (and the BP Visco - because Castrol is owned by BP), Fuchs and Motul all routinely use Esters as basestocks.  TotalFinaElf, Pentosin and Agip are all unable to give definative advices on their basestocks.  So perhaps you can see why I actively discourage the use of any "american" oil, and positively recommend either Castrol, Fuchs or Motul. 

WoW   

[Saint Steve]

i got fed up after 3 lines!!  .

 i think he's saying, your advice given is total rubbish. 

 Hope the above advice helps all if you need to know 

 Happy days.

[BobbyT]

i always change the oil it what ever car i have every 5k, thats just me, i always use fully synth 0/30 or 0/40. I think the longest you should leave your oil is 10k if you what to look after the turbo. 

[BobbyT]

i also think the problem with sludging on the old 1.8 20v t was also down to the small sump, for some reason this helped to create the 'sludging'