Mk VI

[R32UK]

Im not in denial about it happening.. However if you were to say it increases performance/economy/cost of manufacture or something along those lines then I would agree. But all your telling me is that they are changing it so its easier to work on. Surely if its going to have "fitted for life timing chain" then why would they need to make this part of the engine easier to access??

OK, look at it another way.  On the current Mk5 GTI engine, the timing belt is a real ba$tard to change, because the position of the non-removable top engine mount.  Now, someone down the line of said GTI ownership WILL have to pay for the belt to be changed.  Maybe not the first owner, maybe not a fleet owner - someone, somewhere down the line will.  Now, easy jobs can be done quicky, attracting cheap labour costs - whereas difficult jobs invariably take longer, hence greater labour costs.  Now, those "potential", or future costs will have a "reverse" effect, by filtering upwards (for want of a better phrase) and denting trade-in or 2nd hand values.  People will naturally make price adjustments if they know about an upcomming high maintenance item.  It is this same issue which plagues V6 Vectra prices!

Now, to combat the timing belt maintenance costs issue, VW decide to get rid of.  Fine, but they need another way of driving the cams - gears??  Maybe, but a bit overkill on a straight four - chains??  Yup, they work fine on the latest V8 and V10, and the Japs have been using chains for years on their high revving bikes (my CBR6 red lines at 14,000 rpm, and still sounds sweet).  As an added bonus of using chains, they are both physically smaller (which pleases car designers, who are always thankful of having more space to play with), and are (generally) maintenance free, which keeps users happy.

As for a timing belt benifiting the fleet market.. From what I know about the fleet market, not many of them are around for long enough to warrant an new timing belt.

Fairy-nuff.  Many fleets get rid of just before any "biggie" services are due, but this still has a knock-on effect at denting residuals.

And you still have to keep private buyers happy! 

I am not saying I know much on the subject.. in fact quite the opposite. But I know my fair share about business, if I was the CEO of VW and my head engine development team told me the reason to introduce a new engine was because the current one is slightly difficult to work on certain areas...  then Im sure you know where I would tell you to go! Give me any of the reasons above... and I will listen, but not to make a mechanic or tech's life a little easier.

OK, yup.  In it's most simplistic way, it would seem daft to develop a "new" engine.  But in reality, it is probably the same block but a different head.  Secondly, the VW Group, like most automotive companies, are a company which likes to showcase its new technologies - look at the Veyron, or R8, or Bentley Continental GT, or the Lambo Revention.  And finally, VW want to "please" their "customers" - VW wont want owners b!tching away because of nightmare maintenance issues - and cam-belt changes have been a general bug-bear for some time now.

In addition to which I would they would be cutting off another of the reoccuring revenue streams of their many dealerships. Just my view on things as head of VW

Erm, that is called "evolution". 

Just because you no longer need a wheelwright to "tune" the spokes on your wire wheels - hasn't made car companies and stealerships go out of business.  Same goes for changing contact breaker points, condensors and HT leads, or cleaning float chambers on carbs, or oiling SU dashpots.

At the end of the day, stealerships will ALWAYS find new ways of making money.  To take VW as a specific example, they "champion" this "LongLife" servcing regime, on the promise that your car won't need servicing for 2 years or 20k miles, yet every time you go into the stealerships, they are either pushing "specials" such as "winter service", "holiday service", "air con service", etc, etc.  And no matter how good we'd like to think our beloved, high quality german engineered cars are, they always do well with warranty work.  Owners still need spares, be they for routine maintenance, a bottle of top-up oil, some mudflaps, headlamp beam benders, a new mobile fone cradle, etc.  And finally, accidents still do happen.  Accident damage repairs are an absolute huge area in the motor trade, and even if the main stealer doesn't actually get the physical repair job (instead going to an insurance "select repairer" type), the main stealer will still get to supply all the body panels, broken headlamps, radiator grilles, etc - because UK auto insurance states that only genuine OEM parts are used, even if it is repaired in say the Nationwide body centre.

HTH, 

Cheers TT i knew there was a much more complex answer in there somewhere! Its a shame the general concensus is that VW should stick with the current 2.0 lump... It seems to do the job fine.. but then again when have the boffs at VW listened to the owners! (you dont have to answer that)

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Any idea how much they a new cam belt costs on the GTI ?  A little OT I know but got me wondering...

Dunno, the kits at trade price are very reasonable, but the retail price, and the labour will be a bit of stinger.

I think you should volenteer, and be the first forum member to ask! 

[illyun]

The design has grown on me and the standard (non-GTI) version looks far better than the Mk5.  Also the list of equipment is very good - anyone notice that amazing camera popping out of the rear hatch VW badge?  Thats will probably be a popular mod for the Mk5 guys (I'm sure I have seen it done already though).  Only thing is that I don't think the GTI will make a splash like the Mk5 did because:

1.  The Mk5 GTI is an awesome car whereas when the Mk5 GTI came on the scene it was compared to the Mk3 and Mk4's - enough said.
2.  211hp - if true - doesn't sound much better than 197hp and so not as good as an Ed30
3.  The GTI-R will overshadow it - again if it is really coming out

Although the GTI will feature ACC, us Mk5 boys can match that in handling terms by fitting aftermarket suspension.  It might well be worth waiting for the GTI-R and that should be an awesome car - 350hp modded 4-wheel GTI anyone     

As nice as the GTI-R sounds however, I'll be keeping my Ed30, re-mapping it, adding exhaust and other bits and pieces and hopefully putting in a deposit for a real performace beast, the GT-R, within the next few weeks.

[RedRobin]

Although the GTI will feature ACC, us Mk5 boys can match that in handling terms by fitting aftermarket suspension.

....My thoughts exactly when I first read the info. ACC sounds too much like a compromise - When on earth would I ever want to set it to anything other than Sports!? And then, is that Sports setting good enough?

As for DCC (Distance Control) - Yuk!!

[Caz]

had press release emailed to me last thursday..
looks sweet from front, although a bit too like the scirocco..
not sure on the back end though, those rear lights look a bit odd... 

[RedRobin]

....I don't like those rear lights at all either - They look like a mistake! A strange overlap.

But let's not forget that we are looking at the bog standard basic Golf Mk6 and the basic Mk5 is no beauty either (imo).

[illyun]

I forgot..

4.  The Mk6 in standard guise looks a lot better than the Mk5, so the Mk6 GTI probably won't stand out as much compared to the standard Mk6.  I reckon the Mk5 in standard form looks as  as the Mk5 GTI looks    - the front grill, slightly more beaky front and clear headlights make all the difference.  I remember when the Mk5 GTI first came out - it had an aura about it that not many cars on the road had.  On the rare occasioins when one was seen on the road, a lot of people would just stop and stare at it - including me - almost as if a Ferrari or some other exotic supercar was driving past them.  I even remember staying at the Celtic Manor in Wales once and stopped at the reception when an Aston Martin DB9 parked up behind me.  When I came out, guess which car was surrounded by the porters and bell-boys?  No, it wasn't the Aston Martin.  I really don't think the Mk6 will pull this off like the Mk5 did, coming in after 12 years of disappointing GTIs with a truely modern equivalent of the Mk1/2 that captured their magic.  This doesn't apply to the TSI models which look ok.

[RedRobin]

....^Agreed

The MK5 GT is obviously a good car but somehow doesn't have that road presence which the GTI has - It's a lot to do with body styling (and a pretty face).

[Snoopy]

2.  211hp - if true - doesn't sound much better than 197hp and so not as good as an Ed30
3.  The GTI-R will overshadow it - again if it is really coming out

2: The 211PS fits in with VW reducing there CO2 figures for the mk6 golf over the mk5's. If its a version of the engine i think it is it will put out less than 154g/km so reduces the GTIs tax band and gives people an option of a decent power output with lower tax and co2 output or a full fat 270PS 4WD GTI-R (201g/km).
Makes good sence to me for them to do both rather than limit themselfs with the current Ed30 engine or using the older GTI engine that are ~190g/km and maybe putting some new buyers off in the future years due to the rising cost/scales of road tax price the goverments only going to keep upping them in the coming years not just here but also other places.
3: The R32 does not currently over shaddow the GTI. Granted we are talking about an S3 in Golf cloths but again some would say it does not overshadow the GTI either. It all depends on your priority's. Power is not everything.

[R32UK]

I am affraid the way the weather has been over the last 2yrs.. I would not purchase a Golf unless it came with 4wd and atleast 230bhp!

Even now as I speak its absolutely pi$$ing it down!! Not happy with this country right now

Cr4pSh1tPi$$Cr4pSh1tPi$$Cr4pSh1tPi$$Cr4pSh1tPi$$Cr4pSh1tPi$$Cr4pSh1tPi$$!!

Sorry.. outburst over