speeding - continued

[Joester]

I have a four year old daughter, who is absolutely crazy.
She has, on occasion, ran out into the road, even despite the fact her mum and I know she is prone to do this and hold her hand and keep an eye on her.

If you were to knock her down in a 30 zone, and you were doing 29, then it would obviously be her fault.
But she's four,
But I would still like to think that anyone who did this would feel guilty.
After all, you could have been doing 5mph.  
It IS a fact that the slower a car is moving, the less likely it is to kill you - thats just physics.

The people who want cameras and other traffic calming aren't all idiots or buzy-bodies, mostly just concerned parents and suchlike.
The more camaras there are, the more you will be aware of, and respect, the speedlimits.
I don't like them anymore than anybody else, but can any of us say we don't watch our speed in general more in the last few years ?
The cameras themselves may not be saving lives, but if they can help promote a culture of awareness - of just how devastating a fast moving car can be, then that definitely will.

I'm not going to repeat the old 'if you don't speed, you won't get caught' thing.
But it's really not that hard to stick to the speedlimit.
And I'm definitely not saying I don't slip over every now and then, and I'm not saying I wouldn't be well miffed if I got caught on camera (again), but it's still a fair cop.
There is still fun to be had without going fast, in a great looking, handling and sounding car like the Golf.
Are we really in a position to moan so much about cameras ?

[Overseer]

thing is..  i don't know about everywhere else, but i know of 4 fixed cameras within 10 miles of here.. 2 are on dual carriageways inaccessible by foot, and the other 2 are on single carriageways on country roads. nowhere near civilisation.

i'm all for cameras near schools, in town etc etc.. but they aren't been put in those places.

doesn't add up.

[tinman]

I have a four year old daughter, who is absolutely crazy.
She has, on occasion, ran out into the road, even despite the fact her mum and I know she is prone to do this and hold her hand and keep an eye on her.

If you were to knock her down in a 30 zone, and you were doing 29, then it would obviously be her fault.
But she's four,
But I would still like to think that anyone who did this would feel guilty.
After all, you could have been doing 5mph.  
It IS a fact that the slower a car is moving, the less likely it is to kill you - thats just physics.

but the problem is - being hit by a car isn't the thing that kills you.

smashing your head on the concrete surface is the bit that kills you. whether you are hit at 30-20 or even 10, thats not the problem. its smashing your skull on the deck that kills you.

the problem with 20 speed limits and speed humps, and the whole issue of "speed kills" is that we have convinced alot of drivers that that is what happens.

this logic must therefore follow through, speed kills, going slowly doesn't kill. wrong. going slow increases the chance that you will avoid the fatality in the first place. but it doesn't make you less lightly to kill.

I once heard the statistic about the likelyhood of being killed at certain speeds, and someone showed quite effectively that the statistics had been changed to create a point of view. If i could remember the exact wording i would repeat it.

Anyway, back to the logic. If speed kills, going slow doesn't. But what happens when we go slow. Remember, going slow doesn't kill, so we start to get distracted, we look at the scenery, all of a sudden our attention isn't on the road anymore.

Hey, were going so slow what could possibly happen?

The next time you or anyone else slows down for a speed bump, go through in your mind exactly what you are doing.

When I drive, just like many others here. I'm not interested in exactly what is in front of me, i'm interested in the things much further down the road, i'm interested in things i may not be able to see at this moment, i'm interested in finding the bits that might catch me out too late. I am constantly looking under cars to see if i can see kids behind them before i pass.

I am constantly looking for information that allows me to drive my vehincle safely along the carriage way.

But what happens when i see a speed hump, i start to brake, i concentrate on the speed hump now, i concentrate on getting my car over without to much damage.

All of a sudden, i'm not looking at parked cars, i'm not looking at pavements, or the dog on a lead, or the small child. I have been distracted my a man made obstacle.

Just for the notes, with all the speed humps and 20mph zones we now run over 200 children a year against the 100 we used to run over when we drove like mad men.

[tinman]

The people who want cameras and other traffic calming aren't all idiots or buzy-bodies, mostly just concerned parents and suchlike.
The more camaras there are, the more you will be aware of, and respect, the speedlimits.
I don't like them anymore than anybody else, but can any of us say we don't watch our speed in general more in the last few years ?
The cameras themselves may not be saving lives, but if they can help promote a culture of awareness - of just how devastating a fast moving car can be, then that definitely will.

i totally disagree. if you want to create a culture of awareness, then driver education is the answer, not flashing revenue earning criminalising tincans on posts.

the only thing i've learnt so far from cameras is how to spot them from a distance, and pulling up for them. virtually every one is a nuisance. thats why other countries around the world started pullng them up and got back to good old Policemen. (Canada was the latest)

I'm not going to repeat the old 'if you don't speed, you won't get caught' thing.
But it's really not that hard to stick to the speedlimit.

But the speedlimits have been reduced. We are now going nowhere as fast. No one minds speed limits if they are justifiable. The 85 percentile graph at www.adb.org.uk shows how speed limits should be set. A proven methodology that has comprehensively been binned as it does not give the polictial goals currently required by Government.

And I'm definitely not saying I don't slip over every now and then, and I'm not saying I wouldn't be well miffed if I got caught on camera (again), but it's still a fair cop.
There is still fun to be had without going fast, in a great looking, handling and sounding car like the Golf.
Are we really in a position to moan so much about cameras ?

Going fast? You must be breaking the speed limit.


The use and defence of cameras is quite insidious. They aren't there for any good reason other to raise cash, and yet people defend them. Their isn't one drop of evidence that suggest the camera policy has made the roads any safer today than 7 years ago. In fact, theres no difference.

What is most distgusting is that the 20 most dangerous roads in the UK - still do not have cameras on them. Just by getting sensible speed limits on those roads would save over 100 deaths every single year!

If we make rules just for the fun of it, how long before David Blindgitt has us all tatooed in the name of the War on Terrorism. 1984, here we come.

Tin

[Joester]

If you want to believe that the speed you hit someone at will have no bearing on how likely to kill them you are...
The momentum of the car is transfered to the pedestrian, the momentum of the pedestrian is then a factor in how hard they strike the ground (or whatever), or indeed how likely they are to be inverted in the firstplace.
Would it matter to you how fast the car that hit you was going ?, 20mph or 50 mph?, I know which I'd prefer.

The problem is that no-one really thinks they are going to run someone over, and that people feel that speedbumps and cameras somehow take away their civil liberties, or else patronise their competence as a driver.  People are very good at believing these things are there to their detriment rather than their benefit just because they don't like them
There will be a piece of data or a statisitc to grab hold of no matter what your viewpoint.

The real reason the death toll on the roads refuses to diminish is because the culture of speed continues, not because people are concentrating on tackling speedbumps or too worried about watching their speedo.

I'm not defending the cameras.
But how are we to be convinced to slow down ? Driver Education is would be a farse, we are told that smoking is bad for us, yet millions continue to smoke...
It's like I said before, no-one really thinks it will happen to them.
Put fags up to ?20 a packet, a lot more people would stop smoking then because of any educational campaign.
Put a GATSO on every street, and we will be far too worried about our wallets to ever consider speeding.
That is how you create a culture of awareness these days, because everyones too ignorant to be taught any other way.
And yes, the Government continues to rake it in.

[golfvr6]

Yes thats all well and good if the cameras were placed in the right places, as to reduce accidents, BUT THEY CLEARLY AREN'T, that is the argument.
We can't be expected to all drive at 20mph everywhere just incase someone might jump out infront of us, it just doesn't work.
I am in favour of cameras near schools for example, as no decent person would speed there, but do you ever see any cameras by schools? I haven't yet.
They are well placed to make money, ie. a road that used to be 40 or 50mph which has been dropped to 30 totally unnessarily, or where a 50 limit turns into a 30.
Speed does kill, but its not the main cause of deaths on the road.
Unfortunately some people have got carried away with the speed argument. I believe there would be fewer accidents if people could actually drive in the first place.
Why doesn't the government do anything about tailgating??
It has become an epidemic, most people do it, it is far more dangerous than creeping over a 30 mph limit.
The answer is they don't care, it doesn't make cash.

[modulater]

Anyone who has been up the A3 from Esher into London will know exactly that speed cameras are there to earn money.

Theres about 8 on the one stretch of road.

Ones on a bend, which in itself is illegal position as the guidelines say they should be positioned on a 400m (at least) straight road.

another is behind a sign.

Cash,cash, cash.

[turbo]

the thing is how does a camera prevent you from speeding ie thousands are being caught out by them and no one is getting killed because of people speeding through a camera! like i say if people are getting caught cameras arnt working they are not slowing people down!

a camera cant stop you from speeding and killing some one it cant phsyicly stop you! it just sends a ticket out thats if there a camera in it!

my niece ran out into the road when she was little i saw her do it and my sister grabbed her and gave her a good smack.........and rightly so! as far as i know she never did it again!

she didnt have any sense but she soon learned!
and so should all kids!
they teach kids not to play on railways so why not on the roads. stop look and listen and. the green cross code went out the window years ago!

....you dont see the speedlimit on the trains coming down! so why should the roads not be the same!

we've turn into a driver always gets the blame nation!
fact is people dont learn........and they never will!

like golfvr6 says its all about money!! and it wont change!

if i ever have kids i will tell them cars are killers it wont matter what speed there doing if he's doing 20mph or 60mph you dont play with them treat them with respect......wait till its clear or until a car flashes you to cross!
cars and trains are the same they both move fast and should be not be played with.

.....unless your driving!

[turbo]

Why doesn't the government do anything about tailgating??
It has become an epidemic, most people do it, it is far more dangerous than creeping over a 30 mph limit.

your right my mate went down the m6 and it was raining he said people were tailgating and doing 100mph!

i wouldnt blink if there were millions of cameras on the m6 if they were only turned on in wet weather conditions like in germany!

[Golfer]

Modulater...

The A3 is a wicked road tho...if you know where dem pesky cameras are!  Just watch out for the hidden cop cars too.   I live in Walton  - always drive back down the A3 to 'remove the cobwebs' from the engine   when returning from Kingston area.