Author Topic: Which brakes?  (Read 4367 times)

Offline Lagerlout

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Which brakes?
« on: 18 September 2007, 13:28 »
So what is the best brake upgrade floating around for the GTI at the moment?

Brembo has a 330mm 4 pot and a 355mm 4 pot, and I've also heard of a 6 pot AP racing kit with 330mm.

The 355mm Brembo is pricey at £3k (but £1500 pre import duties in the USA), and "only" a 4 pot. From mates running 911's 6 pot is really where it's at (preferred to 8 pots).

Anyone got a set or an opinion? I'd lean towards the Brembo's and importing them from the US but interested to hear from people who have BTDT. Also, what is available in the form of rears? I realise this isn't necessary, but cosmetically I'd like a matching rear kit even if it is OEM sized.

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #1 on: 18 September 2007, 13:35 »
....AP Racing's Big Brake Kit. You don't need 6-pot on a Mk5 GTI unless you do a lot of track work. You don't need aftermarket rear brakes either - Around 85% of braking is on the front on our cars.

My understanding is that AP is an independent part of Brembo. AP make brakes/calipers/clutches for the Bugatti Veyron and the main F1 teams - They know what they are doing. Also NASCAR.
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Offline Lagerlout

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #2 on: 18 September 2007, 13:41 »
Aha, where did you get yours from RR? Price?

Offline RedRobin

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #3 on: 18 September 2007, 14:12 »
Aha, where did you get yours from RR? Price?

....Directly from them because I did some (minor) work with them. Front set with pads, SS braided lines, fluid etc, retail at about £1,700 I think. Detail should be on their web site. They've got a reasonable network of approved suppliers and fitters.
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Offline Hurdy

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #4 on: 18 September 2007, 15:21 »
Couldn't you get Porsche or RS4 ceramic brakes to fit with some work (Under 19' alloys) :undecided:

Expensive, but veeerrry tasty and would last a lot, lot longer than steel ones.
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Offline Lagerlout

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #5 on: 18 September 2007, 15:33 »
You could, but Porsche ceramics are not exactly bulletproof, especially if you get in a gravel trap at some point! Most guys switch back to steels after their multi thousand pound discs start to die, most go to an Alcon/Brembo floating disc arrangement. Admittedly the new ones are better, but you're looking at 5k for a set even on a new 997. The thing is, the std Carrera brakes are so good anyway (stopping power wise) the unsprung weight advantage on a road car is a bit marginal. If you want the ultimate spec 911 then sure, and with no brake dust not to mention they look seriously cool..

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #6 on: 18 September 2007, 16:52 »
So what is the best brake upgrade floating around for the GTI at the moment?

My preferred option would be the Mk5 R32 anchors (which are the same as Audi S4) - larger diameter front and rear discs, the rears internally vented, and all OEM parts which won't affect the warranty.

Anyone got a set or an opinion? I'd lean towards the Brembo's

if aftermarket float your boat, I would recommend Brembo over AP, although both are very good.

and importing them from the US

Why import?  There are a few UK Brembo agents.

Also, what is available in the form of rears? I realise this isn't necessary, but cosmetically I'd like a matching rear kit even if it is OEM sized.

If you must have rears too, then the easiest way is the R32 set up.

We discussed this at length, with the pros and cons, in this thread: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=62109.0
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #7 on: 18 September 2007, 17:08 »
You don't need 6-pot on a Mk5 GTI unless you do a lot of track work.

Not necessarily true.  6-pot calipers enable a larger pad to be used, and also help apply a more even pressure over the entire pad.  And don't forget, some mods are done on "looks" alone.  :wink:

You don't need aftermarket rear brakes either

But matching front and rears do look better!

- Around 85% of braking is on the front on our cars.

That is not true.  The EBD component of the ABS/ESP electronically varies the front to rear bias, and the rears, even under normal braking, do much more work.  When the ESP activates, then 100% of the braking efficiency is applied to just one rear wheel only.  Indeed, so much force can be applied to the rears, they can overheat and actually temporarilly disable the ESP - and this is clearly highlighted in the owners manual.


My understanding is that AP is an independent part of Brembo.

Again, we have discussed this before.  AP are not, in any way related to or owned by Brembo, and nor have they ever been!  The two are entirely separate companies, and have rival product ranges to boot!

AP make brakes/calipers/clutches for the Bugatti Veyron and the main F1 teams

They certainly do NOT make brakes for the Veyron.  The Veyron, just like all high performance braking applications within the VAG stable (including the Bentley ceramics, Lamborghini, Audi RS cars, and the VW Touareg) all use Brembos.  The more "standard" VAG cars use ATE calipers, and the pads are either Pagid or Ferodo.

As for F1 cars, AP do supply a couple of the "smaller" teams, but the vast majority, including the front running four teams all use Brembo.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #8 on: 18 September 2007, 17:09 »
Couldn't you get Porsche or RS4 ceramic brakes to fit with some work (Under 19' alloys) :undecided:

Expensive, but veeerrry tasty and would last a lot, lot longer than steel ones.

Oi - stop giving the Pikey theiving ba$tards ideas to strip my car!  :shocked:

 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Which brakes?
« Reply #9 on: 18 September 2007, 17:25 »
You could, but Porsche ceramics are not exactly bulletproof,

I think the problems with PCCBs came from a couple of related issues.  Firstly, the original spec disc material was not thorougly developed, particularly in terms of their "on-road" durability.  The later generation discs are much better.  Secondly, miss-use was a major problem, with many owners failing to take heed of the specific warnings related to ceramic brakes.

especially if you get in a gravel trap at some point!

Well, that isn't exactly the fault of the ceramic discs!  :rolleyes:

Most guys switch back to steels after their multi thousand pound discs start to die,

That seems to be a major backwards step, as modern ceramics have been proven to be considerably better performing than iron or steel discs.

Secondly, ceramics offer a huge advantage in reduction of unsprung weight - and anyone who's anything knows that reduction in unsprung weight has a factor of 4 improvement when compared to sprung masses!  :nerd:

Admittedly the new ones are better,

Yup, they certainly are!

but you're looking at 5k for a set even on a new 997.

Aye, and a similar figure for ceramics on my RS4!  :shocked:

The thing is, the std Carrera brakes are so good anyway (stopping power wise)

Maybe, but then a Carrera is not as heavy as a normal family car, particuarly with the likes of RS4s, RS6, S8, Q7, Touareg, Bentleys, etc - which also use ceramics.  The fact that Porsches are notably lighter than - say - performance saloons, is the very reason why Porsche have their own tyre standards.

the unsprung weight advantage on a road car is a bit marginal.

That is very wrong.  Reduction in unsrung masses can give very noticeable advantages.

If you want the ultimate spec 911 then sure, and with no brake dust not to mention they look seriously cool..

True, but then even a "poverty spec" 911 would look cool!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo