Author Topic: Why Don't You Mod?....  (Read 21815 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #70 on: 03 September 2007, 10:11 »
....I agree with T_T (yet again! But we don't always agree :smiley:).

This is getting to be a habit!  :grin:

T_T, I've got to ask you: What does "SWMBO" stand for? I can't work it out but expect it's very obvious! :smiley:

She Who Must Be Obeyed - wife, girlfriend, daughter ( :shocked: ), etc
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #71 on: 03 September 2007, 10:27 »
so who do you recommend?
i have heard some bad stuff about superchips and have noticed from your posts TT that your not their No1 fan LOL
some folks advise their bluefin corrupts if a dealer flashes the ECU while in on a service.

You are spot on - I would NEVER recommend Superchips.  OK, some people may be happy with their Bluefin, there are proven cases where Superchips remaps blow turbos.  To use a simple, and loosely related analogy <sp??> - if you regularly blast up and down the motorways at 100mph, pass a copper, but don't get caught and knicked - that then doesn't make 100mph a legal speed.  In the same way that a number of people may be happy with their Supersh!ts stuff - it doesn't make it the best remap for the GTI (or any VAG for that matter).

Regarding the "dealer" issue, two things, firstly, any remap from any supplier will be overwritten by the dealer during routine maintentance or warranty work, if an updated factory map has been made available (the better VAG tuners are aware of this, and will arrange for your remap to be re-instated after any dealer over-writes).  Secondly, there is a "flash count" stored on the ECU, which the stealer will check, particularly for any warranty work.  If the cars own flash count doesn't match the factory details, then bye-bye warranty.  Bluefin are hugely affected by this issue.  :smug:

Regarding recommendations - well I'm not going to recommend anyone specifically, but I would strongly advise that you only use one of the long established dedicated VAG tuners, who include Revo, MTM, and Oettinger.


The reason i mentioned TUV was that as a standard for Germany i expect it to be high, could be wrong? 

The TuV is simply a German "quality" standard, similar to the "CE" mark, or the obsolete British Standard Kitemark.  The TuV is regarded as an extremely stringent standard, however, just because a product has a TuV (or any other standards) approval, it doesn't actually mean that the product in question is better than a non-approved product.  Take ring spanners - you can get TuV ring spanners from Lidl, but are they better than non-TuV approved SnapOn ring spanners??
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #72 on: 03 September 2007, 10:34 »
New on here and don't have a Golf GTi, but do have a MK2 Leon Cupra. I was also planning to have a GIAC map done by Star Performance in Fife. However this has worried me somewhat. I may well hold off tuning until a few more of these have been done.

I guess it would be worth asking Star if the GIAC maps are TUV approved Keith and to see if the stratified mode is enabled on the maps they provide.

GIAC maps are definately NOT EU based maps, and as such, do NOT have stratified mode enabled.  If you want to strip down your FSI engine every 10k miles, rebore, new pistons and rings, and rebuild (OK, slightly extreme, but still possible) - then go for GIAC - however, my personal advice is DON'T GIAC!

As quoted in another post, even if GIAC were TuV approved (which I very, very strongly doubt), it still would not make the remap any better.

One thing I do know about remaps are that as time goes on, better code is developed, hence the reason my AUQ 1.8T with an exhaust managed over 240bhp and earlier remapped 1.8T's with the same mods managed only 220 or 230 odd.

Differences in ambient temperatures, more miles on the clock mean a "looser" engine which develops more power, and so on . . . that really isn't conclusive of anything.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #73 on: 03 September 2007, 10:38 »
you would think GIAC would realise this and alter it for the European market.

Why the fcuk should they?  Afterall, most yanks cant even spot their own country on a map, so getting them to understand that Europe even exists will be a major hurdle.  :smug:

Don't forget, it was nigh-on soley down to the yanks sheer arrogance and muppetery which caused the 1.8 20VT sludge issues, and gave VAG such a bad name!  :angry:  :angry:

a lot of the MKII Cupra guys seem to be leaning to Revo at the moment.my car will not arrive till Nov so looking to wait till Jan/Feb 2008 so hopefully there will be more info buy then. 

They are learning well, then!  :smiley:  :smiley:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #74 on: 03 September 2007, 10:55 »
TT - Think your services may be required on cupra.net!

www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137823

I haven't got time to slave away on another forum!

However, can you ask them to edit the original post, and give me credit for the comments, and also post the full URL (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=62109.0).

Regarding post #3 on SCN, the 1.8 20VT can better handle overfuelling because it is NOT FSI, ie, on the 1.8 the fuel is injected conventionally into the inlet manifold, and mixed with the air BEFORE entering the combustion chamber, whereas FSI engines inject neat petrol directly into the combustion chamber.  Any overfuelling of any direct injection petrol engine (FSI, or the Mitsubishi GDI) will dramatically wash the oil from the cylinder bores.

Moving onto post #4, a UK code may have been sent to the US - but which code, from which engine, from which model year, from which manufacturer software revision ?????  Then there is the issue that US fuel is very different from ours.  And finally, how the fcuk can they properly rolling road test their so called "UK" maps on a US spec car, with US fuels.  I rest my case, your honour!

Staying with post 4 (and 5), US fuel is VERY different to UK and EU fuels (which is why they have very different ECU maps to start with - doh).  It has fcuk all to do with the different ways of measuring octane ratings, but has everything to do with the fact they do NOT use low sulphur fuels, let alone the "ultra low sulphur" fuels which are required buy the FSI.  Changing oil more frequently on a modified car is always wise, but it will NOT prevent the effects of over-fuelling, and oil dilution, which is also regualrly reported in the US on FSI engines.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo


Offline RedRobin

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #75 on: 03 September 2007, 11:01 »
T_T, I've got to ask you: What does "SWMBO" stand for? I can't work it out but expect it's very obvious! :smiley:

She Who Must Be Obeyed - wife, girlfriend, daughter ( :shocked: ), etc

....In my case, being divorced my SWMBO is my 16yo daughter who lives with me.

I must add SWMBO to my vocabulary along with Donkey Power :grin:
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Offline RedRobin

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #76 on: 03 September 2007, 12:16 »
Changing oil more frequently on a modified car is always wise, but it will NOT prevent the effects of over-fuelling, and oil dilution, which is also regualrly reported in the US on FSI engines.

....I'm assuming that a Revo (Stage1) ECU remap takes the dangers of over-fuelling into account as Revo are strongly reputed to know what they are doing.

So far on my modded GTI (39k miles and Revo'd at 23k miles) has only been having it's oil+filter changed on 'longlife' service intervals, so your comment attracts my attention. What would you recommend please, T_T ? All my 'hardware' performance mods were done one by one over time but long before the remap. I say "all" but should exclude the Neuspeed Discharge&Charge pipes and Forge DV. 
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Offline joesgti

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #77 on: 03 September 2007, 14:40 »
i personally dont see the problem with modding, i dont like it loud but like it to look good and go fast, I just had my gti remapped by celtictuning.co.uk, they stated that they put 65hp ontop of its hp, so should be running at 265hp just from a remap. i also has new susspension fitted and audi A5 nuvolarai alloys, all i want now is colour coded bumpers (ed30) and miltex catback exhaust, im worried that this will make it lous tough, what do you think?



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Offline joesgti

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #78 on: 03 September 2007, 15:06 »


GTI MK5
Not the only GTI...........but the best! ; )

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Why Don't You Mod?....
« Reply #79 on: 03 September 2007, 15:24 »
Changing oil more frequently on a modified car is always wise, but it will NOT prevent the effects of over-fuelling, and oil dilution, which is also regualrly reported in the US on FSI engines.

....I'm assuming that a Revo (Stage1) ECU remap takes the dangers of over-fuelling into account as Revo are strongly reputed to know what they are doing.

I think you may be confused by the simplistic term of "overfuelling".  There is nothing wrong with provding excess fuel at certain limited times when the engine needs it (during cold starts), or when it can use the excess fuel (during high load and hard acceleration).

The specific issues with the FSI and US maps relates to overfuelling when it can NOT be used.  The stratified mode (which is disabled in US/Cdn cars) operates during light engine loads and part throttle.  At this stage of operation, the engine is designed to operate on a very lean fuel mixture.  This creates exceedingly high operating temperatures in the combustion chamber (this is why Ultra Low Sulphur petrol is required), but because this is still within the design specification, the ignition timing, and more importantly, the fuel injection timing are modified by the ECU to cope with this specific scenario.  However, on the yankee maps, because the stratifed mode is disabled, a "conventional" amount of fuel is injected (but the standard yankee ECU is designed to cope).  However, this is not ideal, because fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber, and any critical excesses of fuel will wash the oil film off the cylinder bore.  Now compound this issue with a US remap, which will obviously by supplying more fuel than standard (to cope with the supposed increase in power from the remap) and it goes beyond the critical over supply of fuel = recipee for dramatic engine wear.

So, to answer your question, I don't think you need to worry about a Revo map providing excess fuel during periods when the engine can use it.

So far on my modded GTI (39k miles and Revo'd at 23k miles) has only been having it's oil+filter changed on 'longlife' service intervals, so your comment attracts my attention. What would you recommend please, T_T ? All my 'hardware' performance mods were done one by one over time but long before the remap. I say "all" but should exclude the Neuspeed Discharge&Charge pipes and Forge DV. 

OK, I have stated this elsewhere, but allow me to refresh.

Firstly, the LongLife serving regime should be separated from the LongLife oils.

LongLife servicing regime

The actual LongLife serving regime really should not be used on any high performance, high revving petrol engine.  Although the LongLife regime was introduced across virtually all VAG cars in 2001, with virtually no restrictions on useage, as time has progressed, and presumably VAG have gained "real-world" data, then the LongLife "requirements" have changed quite noticeably.  From 2006, the detailed requirements for LongLife were notably "downgraded".

This is the actual list of requirements for LongLife regime:
  • Mileage: more than 30 miles per day
  • Type of Journey: Motorway and main road driving.  Mainly longer distance journeys.  Constant speeds.
  • Conditions: Normal engine loading - eg, with little or no towing, with little or no hill climbs.  Normal vehicle loading.
  • Driving style:  Moderate acceleration, moderate braking, engine revs mainly below 3000rpm

You need to be able to comply with all those requirements.  If you cant, then you should not even consider LongLife.

LongLife oils

LongLife oils are a specific high grade fully synthetic.  They undergo all the "standard" oil tests, but also have to undergo more rigourous tests.  The two crucial areas are the "duration" tests, and HTHS tests.  The duration tests demand that the oil can last over twice as long as the ACEA requirements for conventional drain high performance engine oils.  The HTHS is more intersting, and relevent to turbos.  HTHS stands for High Temperature High Shear, and basically places an additional, extremely rigorous test at 150deg C, whereas conventional ACEA tests only go up to 100deg C.

So it can be deduced that LongLife oils are of considerably higher quality than even the best conventional fully synthetic oils.


My recommendation for "modified" cars

Now, to the point of modifications, particularly engine based mods.  My advice is simple.  Do NOT use the LongLife servicing regime, and only use the conventional fixed interval "Time and Distance" servicing regimes.  However, please DO continue to use the higher quality LongLife oil, and not the lesser quality Time and Distance oils.

Still awake at the back . . . .  :smiley:
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo