Author Topic: Trackers  (Read 13666 times)

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #20 on: 15 March 2007, 17:22 »
I'm a little confused by how the system works. I note this line on their website: "If a TRACKER Horizon equipped vehicle is illegally moved, a movement sensor hidden in the vehicle sends a signal to TRACKER HQ." The question is, how does the system know that movement is illegal?

Well - why don't you phone Tracker directly, and ask them to divulge commercially sensitive security information details, oh, and while you are on the dog, don't forget to tell them that you will then publish that sensitive info on a public web forum!  :shocked:

:lipsrsealed:

Take it from me - it WORKS!

Say my keys are pinched - how does the tracker know the different between me starting it with the key and driving off, or some thieving git doing to same?

In that particular instance, the Tracker unit will work in exactly the same way as the original Retrieve unit - just phone up Tracker, and tell them your car has been stolen, complete with the keys, and they will switch on the "homing" part of it.
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #21 on: 15 March 2007, 17:41 »
Hmmm, I've deleted your sensative data in my quote, perhaps you or the MODERATORS could do the same!

I can do but not really sure why...

Well, I just thought it might be a good idea to delete the info pertinent to the actual methods used for tracking.  Just common sense really!

I'm sure peeps would have found them with Google anyhow!

:)

Uh - where did that come from???

OK, granted, the info may be out there somewhere - but lets not make it easy for 'em!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

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Offline kidad

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #22 on: 15 March 2007, 17:59 »
Well - why don't you phone Tracker directly, and ask them to divulge commercially sensitive security information details, oh, and while you are on the dog, don't forget to tell them that you will then publish that sensitive info on a public web forum!  :shocked:

:lipsrsealed:

Take it from me - it WORKS!

What a thoroughly ridiculous rant.

I’d assumed it was something that anyone with a Tracker would be aware of, therefore in no way “commercially sensitive”. I’m not asking for a detailed schematic breakdown of the system, but a driver’s experience of using it.

The HorizonÂ’s section on the website notes that the unit contacts Tracker HQ if illegal movement is detected, and then Tracker HQ contact the vehicle owner. From this I took that the driver doesnÂ’t have to tell them if the car is stolen, it is the other way around.

What I wondered was does the driver somehow deactivate the unit when he gets in the car by identifying himself as the legal owner? Otherwise, how does the car know what movement is illegal? If you have to call them, then the car doesnÂ’t detect illegal movement at all, and it doesnÂ’t make any sense that they later call you to check something youÂ’ve already told them about.

None of this is commercial sensitive in any way, and it wonÂ’t compromise anyoneÂ’s safety. Anyone who owns a system will know the solution, so it is within the public domain. If explaining how a driver interacts with the unit compromises the system, then itÂ’s a total waste of time and not worth a penny.

Offline kidad

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #23 on: 15 March 2007, 18:13 »
Well, I just thought it might be a good idea to delete the info pertinent to the actual methods used for tracking.  Just common sense really!

The actual mechanism of a system's design isn't what makes it secure. For example, if I gave you my bank card, you'd know perfectly well how it was to be used. You'd know that you take it to an ATM and then use a PIN code to withdraw cash. The problem is the PIN. It is the PIN code that is the security, not the mechanism of use.

People have trackers and they are being used. The mechanism will naturally become known as they become more popular, which the business behind them presumably wants to happen. There has to be another level of security to it, otherwise Mr. Criminal gains the knowledge to overcoming any tracker by buying one.

TeddyKGB

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #24 on: 15 March 2007, 22:29 »
Wouldn't mind knowing myself?? Probly just some kind of "fob" you have on your person when you use the car - I dunno?

Offline kidad

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #25 on: 16 March 2007, 00:00 »
Probly just some kind of "fob" you have on your person when you use the car - I dunno?

That's what I'm assuming. On Tracker's website they note a "Driver Validation Tag" that is used with the TRACKER Response system so it knows if the legal owner is driving. However, it isn't noted in the other system's descriptions. It would seem logical that they use it too from what they claim to do; just wondering if anyone knew.

farina

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #26 on: 16 March 2007, 08:59 »
Got this from a search on a car security installer's website:

"This is the system that monitors the vehicle that it is fitted to 24hours a day, hence the name Tracker Monitor. This system works on a mercury switch that is activated when the ignition is turned off. If the vehicle is started without the ignition key, or is moved, whether it has been broken into or not, the Tracker control centre will inform both the owner of the vehicle and the Police that the car has been moved without the ignition key being used and the process of recovery can then start. As this is monitored 24Hrs a day it doesn't matter when or where the vehicle is stolen from (UK Only), Tracker will let you know as soon as the vehicle is moved."

I believe that Monitor will activate if the vehicle is moved without the ignition on.  I.e. towed or lifted.  I think it's more applicable to motorbikes, jet skis etc that can be towed and lifted more easily.  For a theft with keys then you have to inform tracker (works like the basic one).  I don't think the tag is used on Monitor.  I wouldn't mind a definitive answer though as this is still all speculation.

Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #27 on: 16 March 2007, 13:09 »
Well - why don't you phone Tracker directly, and ask them to divulge commercially sensitive security information details, oh, and while you are on the dog, don't forget to tell them that you will then publish that sensitive info on a public web forum!  :shocked:

:lipsrsealed:

Take it from me - it WORKS!

What a thoroughly ridiculous rant.

Why - - - - just because I have a little common sense, and don't want to post detail of a security system, you try to ridicule me !!!  :huh:  :undecided:

I’d assumed it was something that anyone with a Tracker would be aware of, therefore in no way “commercially sensitive”. I’m not asking for a detailed schematic breakdown of the system, but a driver’s experience of using it.

Then your assumption is very wrong!  A Tracker unit is a "fit and forget" item.  It requires absolutely no intervention from the driver at all.  Furthermore, the owner/driver is prohibited from actually knowing where the unit is located within the car.

So - to answer your specific query re: "driverÂ’s experience of using it" - there is NO drivers experience!

The HorizonÂ’s section on the website notes that the unit contacts Tracker HQ if illegal movement is detected, and then Tracker HQ contact the vehicle owner. From this I took that the driver doesnÂ’t have to tell them if the car is stolen, it is the other way around.

What is written on the Tracker web site is perfectly clear and accurate.  What don't you understand?  ALL current Trackers automatically detect and notify for unathorised movement, without ANY owner/driver intervention.

What I wondered was does the driver somehow deactivate the unit when he gets in the car by identifying himself as the legal owner?

There is no "deactivation" of the Tracker unit.  It automatically knows when the car is being used legitimately, and when it is not - and responds accordingly.

Otherwise, how does the car know what movement is illegal?

It just knows - that is why Tracker are so good, and where their so-called competators products blatantly fall down!

If you have to call them, then the car doesnÂ’t detect illegal movement at all, and it doesnÂ’t make any sense that they later call you to check something youÂ’ve already told them about.

Where did that come from?

The only instances where you need to call Tracker first are as follows:
a/  you own the original (now discontinued) Retrieve unit (which never did claim to detect illegal movement),
b/  your car keys have been stolen,
c/  you wish to request a "lock-down".

Any other unathorised movement, on all the current Tracker models, and they call you first.

None of this is commercial sensitive in any way, and it wonÂ’t compromise anyoneÂ’s safety. Anyone who owns a system will know the solution, so it is within the public domain. If explaining how a driver interacts with the unit compromises the system, then itÂ’s a total waste of time and not worth a penny.

OK, I say again, phone Tracker directly, and demand they give you detailed info on their Tracker units, so that you can post the info on a public web site.  Their polite answer will be something like "commercially sensative", or "security sensative", or similar phrases.  When you end the said fone conversation, then phrases begining and ending with the letter "F" may be targeted to you!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #28 on: 16 March 2007, 13:34 »
Well, I just thought it might be a good idea to delete the info pertinent to the actual methods used for tracking.  Just common sense really!

The actual mechanism of a system's design isn't what makes it secure.

What a load of hairy gonads.  OK, if your logic was correct, then why do Golf Mk5 have deadlocks on the doors?  Why don't you email VW R&D in Wolfsburg, and tell them to bin the deadlocks, and instead use a wire tie from a freezer bag to hold the doors secure!  :rolleyes:

For example, if I gave you my bank card, you'd know perfectly well how it was to be used. You'd know that you take it to an ATM and then use a PIN code to withdraw cash. The problem is the PIN. It is the PIN code that is the security, not the mechanism of use.

Oh do dream on.  PIN, or NO PIN, if I had your bank card, I most definately would be able to obtain goods, services and cash!  :rolleyes:

People have trackers and they are being used.

But the owners/drivers do NOT "use" them - they are fit and forget, and require no intervention.

The mechanism will naturally become known as they become more popular, which the business behind them presumably wants to happen. There has to be another level of security to it, otherwise Mr. Criminal gains the knowledge to overcoming any tracker by buying one.

Again, gonads.  Tracker are highly regarded, and Thatcham regulated products.  There has never been any evidence of any "reverse engineering" of any of their products, and indeed, their products are continously being developed!
« Last Edit: 16 March 2007, 14:23 by Teutonic_Tamer »
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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I feel like a homo


Offline Teutonic_Tamer

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Re: Trackers
« Reply #29 on: 16 March 2007, 14:31 »
Probly just some kind of "fob" you have on your person when you use the car - I dunno?

That's what I'm assuming. On Tracker's website they note a "Driver Validation Tag" that is used with the TRACKER Response system so it knows if the legal owner is driving.

The "Driver Validation Tag" is ONLY used on the Response and Echo systems.  You keep the tag in your wallet/purse/sock/shirt pocket/boxers - but NOT with the actual car keys!

However, it isn't noted in the other system's descriptions. It would seem logical that they use it too from what they claim to do; just wondering if anyone knew.

Free lunches anyone???  :rolleyes:  :smug:

You have to pay extra for the ID tag technology.  It is not used on the Monitor or Horizon!
Sean - Independent Automotive Engineering Technician (ret'd)
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'06/7 Golf Mk5 GTI 5dr (BWA) DSG, colour coded,

I feel like a homo