Author Topic: Buying speakers advise needed please  (Read 10299 times)

Offline Heyho

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #30 on: 03 March 2007, 07:12 »
@Tom:   Wether you believe me or not, if you hit the first key on a piano, the note you produce WILL have a frquency of 27.5 hz - end of.

@Len:    I agree with you that if you were choosing the ideal location for a hifi, the interior of a vehicle would not be high on the list!  However, regarding the stereo, provided your left ear receives it's information from the left speakers/s, and your right ear from the right, you are listening to a stereo reproduction, regardless of path lengths, even if the stage is not ideal.

A compromise it will always be, but there are routes which can be taken to achieve a pretty good result when compared with just chucking a couple of 6x9s in the shelf.

Offline wilson

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #31 on: 03 March 2007, 11:40 »
if you want to change them or need to (as i did!) its hard due to the irregular size, and now im stuck with a useless MDF shelf with square holes in it!

Very good point !! 

Offline tommk3cab

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #32 on: 03 March 2007, 12:30 »
@Tom:   Wether you believe me or not, if you hit the first key on a piano, the note you produce WILL have a frquency of 27.5 hz - end of.



cant be! more like 60 maybe slightly higher, it may resinate at that frequency but there is no way that is the frequency you would hear. it couldnt be done, a frequency of that depth would need a very sizeable driver, for you to be able to even feel it, thats why small speakers or tweeters cannot produce bass to this level, its sub bass, movement (although i know too well all sound is movement, but its a matter of perception)

i assume you are aware of tuning forks, use any bit of metal or better still an elastic band in the same way, knock it really hard and hold it tight so it resinates, stick it real close to your ear and you will hear a buzzing, but it needs to be very close to your ear.
« Last Edit: 03 March 2007, 12:39 by tommk3cab »

Offline Heyho

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #33 on: 03 March 2007, 18:50 »
Ok, my understanding always was that the audible range for human hearing, not perception, but hearing, is approximately from 20hz - 20,000hz.  I've double checked this, and can't find any information to the contrary.

What do you mean it may resonate at that frequency?  It has to resonate at that frequency to produce a note of that pitch.  It doesn't matter if it's a piano wire, bass guitar string, a sub or a tuning fork, resonating at say 30hz, will produce the same note.  Sound waves in their simplest form are compressions and rarefactions in the air, caused by something resonating at a given frequency.

Audio waves of a frequency below that of human hearing are called infrasound, not sub bass.  When you say that only a sizeable driver could produce that sort of frequency, I think what you mean is "reproduce" that frequency.  A piano has no speakers, but does produce such notes, as does a bass guitar (30hz), and the lowest note produced by a musical instrument is the hornpipe(organ), which drops to 16hz!  The reason for this is that a sub is 12 or maybe 15 inches across, is being asked to produce a note which was originally played by a string or pipe several feet long.  The longer and/or thicker a string is, the lower the frquency it will produce when struck. 

Offline tommk3cab

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #34 on: 04 March 2007, 15:16 »
produce, reproduce yeah. as for the things resinating yeah they should produce the note they resinate at but for you to hear the note something ( i dont know what, maybe the box, or whatever the string, ect . is in) must change for what you are saying to be true, which it must be but i dont get how, you must be stating the resinant frquency and for that frequency to be heared SOMETHING? must change. i didnt say it was called sub bass I was explaining the reason why they are called subs, sub sonic, below sound, super sonic, above sound. it may not be the only term for it but it the reason subs are named (maybe they should be called infrasound speakers or something!) . I totally see your point, why make it if you cant hear it, maybe i have never heared a piano or organ that can produce it, and maybe it does make a movement feeling for people but it cannot make a sound humans can hear, dogs and cats are very different  but it is impossible to actually hear it because, im pretty sure its the bones (or maybe your ear drum or a receptor in your brain) that pick up the audio waves in your ear cannot resinate at that low a frequency, i dont know the exact range but i know its not that low. a perfect example is if you have some subs or no someone who has, make a 30hz tone with audacity or similar program 'listen' to the tone, doesnt matter really how loud, then stick your fingers in your ears, the percieved 'volume' doesnt change. you also cannot get 'earpiercing' bass, very low sub bass (30 hz down) is more similar to an earthquake. sub bass cannot really damage your hearing (unless its distorted) it will affect your heart and breathing first. I cant explain why instruments do as you say but i am sure you are right otherwise you wouldnt say, as am i about this, after a certain frequency it changes from bass ( or mid bass) to proper earthshaking bass (sub bass) where, if you could hear it at a level where normal bass or any other sound would blow your eardrums, sub bass wont, the amps in my car = about 300 w for the normal spks but over 1000w for the subs, and the subs really need more power to balance it (admittadly it takes more power to produce but), the decibel ratings for the normal speakers would be well below the subs, but the normal speakers 'sound' much louder. with 1000w of tweeter or normal speaker power that close to you im pretty sure your ears may never work again.
« Last Edit: 04 March 2007, 15:32 by tommk3cab »

Offline Heyho

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #35 on: 04 March 2007, 20:47 »
I can't help thinking that we've veered of topic more than a little, but what the heck!

To put it simply, my understanding of what is or isn't sub bass is as follows:

20hz or lower = Infrasound - sound waves not audible to humans.  (but elephants find it useful aparrently)

20hz to 90hz(ish) = Audible sub bass, which can also be felt at higher volumes.

90hz - 20,000hz, = The rest of the audible range - which obviously can be broken down in even more categories.

20,000hz + = Ultrasound (popular with cats, dogs, bats and dolphins etc.)

Subsonic = An aircraft travelling below the speed of sound (770mph) or a filter on an amplifier for cutting out frequencies below audible, to prevent damaging subs under certain conditions.

Supersonic = An aircraft travelling above the speed of sound.


Offline wilson

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #36 on: 04 March 2007, 22:20 »
with 1000w of tweeter or normal speaker power that close to you im pretty sure your ears may never work again.

Has anyone seen, Its All Gone Pete Tong ?   Love that film!

Offline Len

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #37 on: 05 March 2007, 09:22 »
^^^^^ Yeah great film! Also Harry on the Boat, but the book is far better!

Well I checked with my daughter and I was a bit out! We humans can only hear down to 50 Hz. ( I said 60 Hz)
Now neither of us are musical so cant say yey or nay about a piano key but if its 27Hz then you cant really hear it!
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Offline Heyho

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #38 on: 05 March 2007, 18:40 »

Well I checked with my daughter and I was a bit out! We humans can only hear down to 50 Hz. ( I said 60 Hz)
Now neither of us are musical so cant say yey or nay about a piano key but if its 27Hz then you cant really hear it!

We'll just have to agree to disagree!!

It was my recollection from my schooldays, as 20 - 20,000 seemed to have stuck in my memory.  I've checked exhaustively, in *real* books, and on the web, and I can't find any info to contradict it.  These are the first couple of google hits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_%28sense%29

http://www.bathspastringquartet.co.uk/string-quartet-weddings.html

And the piano scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

That is all. :nerd:
« Last Edit: 05 March 2007, 18:43 by Heyho »

Offline tommk3cab

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Re: Buying speakers advise needed please
« Reply #39 on: 05 March 2007, 21:50 »
what happens in the pete tong film? (obviously not a whole film description! just in relation to ears popping?)