Author Topic: VW to buy Lotus ?  (Read 3231 times)

Offline Cass

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VW to buy Lotus ?
« on: 29 January 2007, 22:50 »
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Offline monkeyalan

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #1 on: 30 January 2007, 12:10 »
This can only be a good thing for all concerned.  :cool:

Offline Len

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #2 on: 30 January 2007, 12:58 »
The koreans wont be happy!
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Offline Organisys

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #3 on: 30 January 2007, 13:29 »
Interesting. Would be good if some of the Lotus chassis enginnering talent makes it too new VWs

... it's turned into a fashion show for poofters.

Offline monkeyalan

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #4 on: 30 January 2007, 14:12 »
tuned golf GT engined elise anyone? W12 esprite replacment?  :laugh:

Offline mk2mark

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #5 on: 30 January 2007, 14:19 »
The koreans wont be happy!
Why? They're being bought too, it's not like they're not used to it either GM has owned them up till now. I'm sure Vw know what they're at and some of their concepts have been along a similar vein to lightweight lotus' - my only concern is that all the great ideas Mike Kimberley has been bringing on board will be held up. I would love to see a lotus polo though :smiley:

Offline campbell

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #6 on: 31 January 2007, 10:14 »
tuned golf GT engined elise anyone? W12 esprite replacment?  :laugh:

Not sure how many on here are aware, but a credible VAG engine conversion is already underway for the Elise.  Chap called Bernard Scouse, trading as Auto Teknix, has installed an Audi engine, think it's the 1.8T base with bigger turbo etc.  Offers a "basic" 250bhp version, with an alternative 300bhp - this in a car weighing about the same as a Mk1 Golf Gti - truly inspired!!!

http://www.auto-teknix.co.uk/audi-conv.htm

Quite a neat install, and increasingly catching the eye of us Elise owners who want something a bit more flexible than the now common Honda Type R engine conversion (in itself, a great solution well matched to Elise dynamics but no simple forced induction upgrades available IIRC...hence the Audi/VW/Seat/Skoda 1.8T unit starting to look attractive).  This has increased in profile in light of the demise of Rover and the K series (fitted to the bulk of Elises but withdrawn in the last 6 months with arrival of new base Elise S with 140bhp Toyota engine)

Over on the Scottish Elises forum, we like to refer to it as the "Skoda conversion" :-)

So perhaps it will eventually come direct from VW with a warranty [when h£ll freezes over!]

I am personally pretty comfortable with the VW stake in Proton / Lotus, not least because we own a VW and a Lotus :-)  But VW strike me as a steady, well managed outfit who are increasingly looking to hone a sporting brand, so hopefully Lotus fits in nicely.  I imagine the Elise has a strong future, not so sure about Esprit with the R8 on the starting blocks but we'll see...

For info, here is our Lotus community take on the same story ;-)  :

http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5662

Campbell

Offline mk2mark

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #7 on: 31 January 2007, 10:56 »
Personally I don't like the sound of using the 1.8t engine at all. They say a 40kg increase isn't much but I beg to differ, it's almost the weight of the complete engine & gearbox in the car in my sig! The weight's added to the wrong place too, up high near the back of the car which more or less equates to snappier oversteer. Couple that with a turbo and lag, which again won't suit the car IMO - there's no need for all that torque in a car as light as an elise.

Offline campbell

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #8 on: 31 January 2007, 12:09 »
Interesting observations, and all valid points.  The VAG 1.8T is proving more popular due to wider prevalence of available units, and better future availability of parts.  Honda VTECs have begun to change to new architectures, I think, so parts for earlier ex-write-off engines will become harder to source.  Yet there are soooo many VAG 1.8T units going around, and still being fitted in new cars today.

However on the weight thing, do also think of the following contexts...

I guess the lightest driver weighs around 60kg.  I am probably around 70, and still pretty average.  I know many Elise owners who weigh a good deal more than me, so let's say they get as far as 90-100kg.  At which point you have already created an extra 30kg weight purely in the driver ;-)  The Elise will have been designed for this variation from the outset, as are all cars.

Next up, consider the use of the boot (yes, it does have one!).  Fully packed you could easily have 20kg in there.  And yes most of us will travel with empty or near-empty boot, many of the guys I know take their Elises on European trips with plenty tools and backups in the boot so a few kg will always be sloshing around  Again, the car has this tolerance designed in.

Finally, variation in fuel tank load will also range from practically 0kg to maybe 25kg (think petrol is lighter than water so the 37 litre tank will only ever weigh maybe 25-30 when full).  Again, this has to be built into the design parameters of the original car.

My understanding is that the Honda conversion amounts to approx 30-40kg increase in engine/gearbox weight also, and the general consensus is there is no material affect on the handling of the car.  And naturally, power to weight improves markedly despite the extra mass.  One key point to note is, the Honda tuners have all come round to the importance of a minor change to the rear spring rates, which I think they take up by a few pounds to prevent the car "bogging down" when moving away from standstill.  Feedback from a couple of guys I know who've applied this is very positive, and they say it dials out any weight effects they ever noticed.

And whilst the weight increases are indeed behind the central axis of the car, they are still within the axles - it's mid-engined after all.

I see you have a neat wee Se7en in your signature...so I realise you do know your stuff when it comes to lightweight cars, but bear in mind the Se7en is TRULY lightweight and 40kg there is a huge proportion!  Practical feedback says 40kg in the Elise world is not a crisis...and since the earliest S1 weighed 720kg and the latest nearly 750kg (if you fit the hardtop etc), this just becomes lost in the noise.

Campbell

PS - I don't have a converted Elise, and mine is a "mid-life" S1 with no significant mods, so I have no axe to grind...just enjoying watching the engine conversion debate in case my K series blows up one day and I need/fancy something a bit different ;-)

Offline S11EPS

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #9 on: 31 January 2007, 12:29 »
One of the first pistonheads runs i went on was frequented by a guy running a tuned (read approx 300bhp) 1.8t VAG lump in a carbon-bodied exige, and it was easily the quickest car of the day, truly stunning.

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