Author Topic: VW to buy Lotus ?  (Read 3232 times)

Offline Len

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #10 on: 31 January 2007, 12:34 »
Was at Castle Combe last year and saw 2 Elises in the car park that both had Audi engines in.
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Offline mk2mark

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #11 on: 31 January 2007, 13:49 »
I understand your point campbell, and it's 2 valid ways of tackling the same problem, however I stand by what I said, more power only makes you faster on the straights, a lighter car makes you faster everywhere. With an elise to say a little weight here or there won't make any difference is fine until you end up with something the weight of a boxter or whatever - and then where does that put lotus? Do you think they can compete on those grounds - do you think they'd want to?

As for the engine itself, sure it's been used in a lot of cars we're talking about vw here :laugh: It's not that it's not a good engine, it's just not suited at all to an elise, and IMO it hardly has the most inspiring engine note - no offence to any 1.8t's on here :smiley:

Offline campbell

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #12 on: 31 January 2007, 17:52 »
With an elise to say a little weight here or there won't make any difference is fine until you end up with something the weight of a boxter or whatever - and then where does that put lotus? Do you think they can compete on those grounds - do you think they'd want to?

As for the engine itself, sure it's been used in a lot of cars we're talking about vw here :laugh: It's not that it's not a good engine, it's just not suited at all to an elise, and IMO it hardly has the most inspiring engine note - no offence to any 1.8t's on here :smiley:

Mark,

LOL!  Great answer.  If you watch the "Making of the Elise" video, you'll see the classic Lotus debate of how extra weight spawns yet more extra weight, so I am fully with you on your point about ending up with a Boxster Bloater.  However, isolated aftermarket upgrades like engine changes are different, IMHO, and in many cases the people doing it are already fast around corners but DO need a bit more on the straights!  I must must must put you in touch with one of our legendary members, David "Tut" Duncan, who wrote the book on trying to outdrag Scoobies on the long uphill pit straight at Knockhill, in his original 118bhp Elise!  He now has a Honda JDM conversion and never looked back...

Now, if VAG were to influence future Elise development by suggesting a new powerplant weighing considerably more than the current Toyota unit, that could well be a sad day.  However I have to say that EU Legislators will probably have more negative impact on future vehicle weight than the manufacturers.

And as for engine note, you'd be amazed what you can do with the short travel Elise exhaust systems!

Campbell

Offline mk2mark

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #13 on: 01 February 2007, 13:06 »
I'm not saying an elise couldn't do with more power, just the way that power is delivered. I'd far sooner go for a honda type r - very light and revvy which is what you want in a car like that IMO. Keeping the engine normally aspirated keeps the torque similar to what the car is used to so you don't need to go beefing up the chassis etc.

Also on the straights a lighter car doesn't just give you a better power to weight ratio (which best case scenario is all more power offers) - with a lighter car you're effectively making straights longer since you can brake later and get on the power faster - so you're on the power for. For instance on track a 140bhp/450kg car like mine will make bits of something with twice the power and weight (a portly 280bhp elise? :laugh:) even though both cars would have the same power to weight ratio.

Offline campbell

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #14 on: 01 February 2007, 13:45 »
Agreed Mark.

Of course always the small matter of the power hungry who simply want more grunt on road, at which point the nuances of track bias fade away in favour of general practicality etc.  Eg, I for one prefer a torquey car to a revvy one, so a light pressure turbo solution might suit me.

Indeed, after driving our 150 tdi pd Anni Golf for 4 years, I find it hard to rev any car beyond about 3k rpm these days, out of sheer sympathy!!

Fortunately, my S1 Elise remains broadly as standard other than improved throttle body, filter panel and exhaust, brakes and suspension.  So its K series is torquey enough for most of my needs...though I am in fact about to put a very mildly uprated cylinder head onto it just to freshen up the experience...I've had it over 7 years, after all :-)


cheers

Campbell

Offline mk2mark

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Re: VW to buy Lotus ?
« Reply #15 on: 01 February 2007, 14:49 »
at which point the nuances of track bias fade away in favour of general practicality etc.  Eg, I for one prefer a torquey car to a revvy one, so a light pressure turbo solution might suit me.

You won't be wanting an elise then :grin: Anyway I think we've both made our points, I do agree with everything you've said, we just have different tastes :smiley: