Author Topic: EPC fault  (Read 13664 times)

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #40 on: 21 July 2019, 19:18 »
Public service information update:

The Golf is approx 155cm from base of radio to middle (of the middle) of back seat and the Ibiza (and therefore I’ll assume Polo will be near identical) is 150 dead.
The Golf is approx 150cm from near the middle of the door cards across ways and the Ibiza 145cm in more or less the same place with the proviso that the Golf’s door cards are politically hollowed out more to give slightly more elbow room, yet in other places the door cards are fairly evenly matched in cabin width.
All done very hastily as it’s throwing it down.
So 5cm x 5cm. 
I don’t feel so short changed for my extra £10k now. 

Cabin fit and finish is admittedly loads better in the Golf as you’d rightfully expect. I’ve yet to sample an MQB Polo. Actual interior trim panel construction doesn’t feel massively different though, just the outer faces are much plusher and a bit more solid feeling unless you really press them.

The practical differences are tiny. With my drivers seat adjusted to preference in the Golf R (before we got tid of it) and in our 1st Polo GTI+, The gap between the front of the back bench and the back of the drivers seat was measured:11mm in the Golf's favour. I seem to be sat slightly more upright in the Polo, by preference.

The boot is slightly smaller and the interior width is narrower between the front seats - you can see this easily on the Polo GTI+ because the armrest on the Polo is about 30mm narrower than the Golf's, and the lower console (where the cup holders are) is correspondingly narrower too.

With experience in messing with the interior trim to fit dashcams in both cars, they are equally well screwed together with tight, flush fitting of trim  pieces. No creaks on our Polos - but on the Golf...those damn sun visors used to rattle like hell.

The only place that you can really tell more money has been spent on the Golf's interior is in the doors cards - notably the pull handle feels less soft to the touch (a simple single puece hard plastic lump, less angular to look at), there is no rubberised top edge to the door cards to match the dash top, and there's no flock lining in the doors bins. The dash area and infotainment/virtual cockpit are fantastic. The "never touch" electronic handbrake was initially a miss, but you soon get into the habit of applying at the end if each journey. If I do decide to change rear discs and pads myself if it's a long term keeper, manual handbrake will make things easier.

If VW had spent an extra £5 a piece on the door cards to add another £100 to the retail price, it would match the Golf GTI for feel. The doors being marginally shorter, with less span) feel less hollow than the Golf's (they've felt thin since VW adopted the thinner gauge steel that's supposed to be as still as the old, thicker stuff). No rusty brake disc hubs on the Polo.

The Ibiza feels a good bit cheaper inside than the Polo GTI+ - it was a contender for our A1 replacement- looking for a 1.5TSI Evo FR at the time. Seat were having bother getting most engines last May/June because of the WLTP preparations and bother VAG were having with the 1.5 unit. It seemed inconceivable to me that in 2018, Seat were still putting wind-up windows in the back doors for all but one luxury trim level of Ibiza - made you feel like you were buying a Dacia, not a Seat Ibiza.

It's amazing the difference to perception of quality in a car a few slightly more tactile pieces of trim can make between the VAG marques when the underlying mechanicals are the same. A few more chrome trimmed switches here and a bit more rubberised plastic on the door cards and lower trim there can make all the difference between a "cheapo" Skoda and a "luxurious" Audi.

With the new Polo/Ibiza/A1 being so big now, the new Golf/A3/Leon are going to have to grow a lot to restore the interior space differential and justify every penny of the price difference.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline kmpowell

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #41 on: 22 July 2019, 11:37 »
The EPC fault came back yesterday evening when I took the car out for its first long run since picking it up. I pulled out to overtake, the engine suddenly felt sluggish and ‘ping’ the warning came on and the engine went into limp mode.

It goes back in on Tuesday to be looked at for a 3rd time, but I’m worried there’s something intrinsically wrong somewhere.

I cannot afford to have an unreliable car due to the types of journeys I do so if it happens again I’ll be rejecting the car back to VW permanently.

The irony in all this is I sold my Range Rover Sport to get the Golf, primarily because it had fallen outside of the 3year warranty I hit from new and I was worried about reliability and big bills.

As you can probably imagine, I’m not at all happy. :angry:

Seems pretty clear that the second dealer has not identified the cause of the problem. Either that or they replaced faulty sensors with faulty sensors.
There’s no reason why the problem shouldn’t be curable.
If you get no success this time, i’d take it back to the supplying dealer and say that you’ll reject the car if not rectified, if only to get them to try a little harder.
Sorry to hear about your experience- hope it’s sorted quickly.

I'd be looking to reject if you are even thinking about keeping this car beyond warranty. It's starting to sound like it's a bit of a lemon, or the issue is so complex, VW dealerships seem incapable of the knowledge to fix.

You've given 2 dealerships the opportunity to fix, have encountered other issues and dealership inflicted damage. You should be able to get a replacement fairly sharpish.
I don't think it's a full on lemon as such, because I've done 5k trouble free miles in it, but I do agree and worry that there is something intrinsically wrong that might never be resolved and/or is very complex.

I'll be giving them one more chance, then rejecting if I'm not happy with the outcome, but part of me thinks I might just reject now. I'll be giving VW a call later today to start the proces, discuss options, and record my concerns.

 :sad:
SOLD March 2021
2019 GTI Performance, 5DR, DSG - Isaac Blue, Leather, Pan Roof, 19" Brescias, DCC, Dynaudio, Rear Camera, Keyless, Electric Memory Driver Seat.

Offline Yusee

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #42 on: 22 July 2019, 13:16 »
The EPC fault came back yesterday evening when I took the car out for its first long run since picking it up. I pulled out to overtake, the engine suddenly felt sluggish and ‘ping’ the warning came on and the engine went into limp mode.

It goes back in on Tuesday to be looked at for a 3rd time, but I’m worried there’s something intrinsically wrong somewhere.

I cannot afford to have an unreliable car due to the types of journeys I do so if it happens again I’ll be rejecting the car back to VW permanently.

The irony in all this is I sold my Range Rover Sport to get the Golf, primarily because it had fallen outside of the 3year warranty I hit from new and I was worried about reliability and big bills.

As you can probably imagine, I’m not at all happy. :angry:

Seems pretty clear that the second dealer has not identified the cause of the problem. Either that or they replaced faulty sensors with faulty sensors.
There’s no reason why the problem shouldn’t be curable.
If you get no success this time, i’d take it back to the supplying dealer and say that you’ll reject the car if not rectified, if only to get them to try a little harder.
Sorry to hear about your experience- hope it’s sorted quickly.

I'd be looking to reject if you are even thinking about keeping this car beyond warranty. It's starting to sound like it's a bit of a lemon, or the issue is so complex, VW dealerships seem incapable of the knowledge to fix.

You've given 2 dealerships the opportunity to fix, have encountered other issues and dealership inflicted damage. You should be able to get a replacement fairly sharpish.
I don't think it's a full on lemon as such, because I've done 5k trouble free miles in it, but I do agree and worry that there is something intrinsically wrong that might never be resolved and/or is very complex.

I'll be giving them one more chance, then rejecting if I'm not happy with the outcome, but part of me thinks I might just reject now. I'll be giving VW a call later today to start the proces, discuss options, and record my concerns.

 :sad:

The problem will be identified and resolved if there is incentive for them to do so. I think you're right to go hard at them now- if they face the prospect of having to keep a £25-30k car with a significant fault, I'm sure they'll find a way to sort out the fault, no matter how complex it is!
I think you'll struggle to reject it- I think you would have to show that the problem was present when the car was bought-which won't be easy- and you'd definitely have a fight on your hands as they'd stand to lose thousands.
2018 Golf GTI Performance  5dr manual, Isaac blue
1988 Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9, 2022 Triumph Street Triple R, 2016 Seat Alhambra.

Offline watchdog

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #43 on: 22 July 2019, 15:37 »
Will be interesting to see VW response should you go down the route of rejecting the car as my car (3000 miles) is back in for the second time re an oil leak and I am becoming a little anxious wondering whether this is a long term problem which leaves me wondering whether I should start making a fuss about rejecting the car.

Offline kmpowell

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #44 on: 23 July 2019, 10:56 »
Will be interesting to see VW response should you go down the route of rejecting the car as my car (3000 miles) is back in for the second time re an oil leak and I am becoming a little anxious wondering whether this is a long term problem which leaves me wondering whether I should start making a fuss about rejecting the car.
I had a very interesting chat with the lead technician when I dropped the car off this morning. He was keen to get as much detail from me as possible as to when the fault was happening, so had asked to see me when I dropped the car off, even asking to go out on a road test with me there & then to see how/when it faulted as I was driving.

On the drive he told me that now the car is back for a 3rd time they are allowed to have "free rein" on diagnosing issues. On all 1srt and 2nd inspections, they have set test plans for every problem which they have to follow in order to satisfy warranty conditions, so they are just following a book rather than being technicians. This means if they get part way through a test-plan and they get the 'all clear' from the systems, they stop, regardless if they think there might be a further fault. That's the instructions from VW to all dealers, not their choosing. He said they would now keep the car for longer and use their rolling road etc to diagnose, trouble shoot to find the root cause.

With that in mind you might want to ask if they are following set plans or actually diagnosing it themselves.

I told them about me possibly rejecting the car, so they are clear the issue needs to be fixed and I think that if it doesn't get fixed this time then there's no hope.

I'm still in two minds about all this, but they have one last chance, fingers crossed as I really do love the car.

p.s. Courtesy car this time is another Polo, but Black, not beige.
« Last Edit: 23 July 2019, 11:01 by kmpowell »
SOLD March 2021
2019 GTI Performance, 5DR, DSG - Isaac Blue, Leather, Pan Roof, 19" Brescias, DCC, Dynaudio, Rear Camera, Keyless, Electric Memory Driver Seat.

Offline Phuture

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #45 on: 23 July 2019, 14:37 »
Ah mate what a pain!

I've got to take mine in next week to look into the knocking from the rear. It not really acceptable when you buy a new car then are having to take additional time off work and petrol costs to go back and have them keep looking at it.

I've got 600 miles on the car and if they dont solve this knocking issue (sounds bloody embarrassing driving along) then I'm gonna kick up a big fuss. I'll give them the chance to rectify the issue, but then that's it.

I'd be fuming if I was you mate, it's not what u expect from 30k worth of machinery...

Offline kmpowell

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #46 on: 25 July 2019, 17:00 »
Car is back, and after a thorough test drive by myself (over an hour and a half!), touch wood everything seems to be ok, for now...  :whistle:

As per my previous post, the have set 'test plans' governed by VAG Germany, because the car is in warranty, so they are unable to steer outside of that, but on it's second visit back to the dealer the plan is open-end up.

The fault that was fixed was actually two parts, but they only found it had two parts once they did the extra diagnostics outside of the original test plan. So as well as the oil pressure sensor an oil pressure switch had also failed, which was triggered once the sensor had failed again. The sensor was replaced originally, for which the test plan from VAG said to then stop if no other faults were found. They continued the fault finding and this time however they found the switch had failed.

"Hang on a minute, didn't the VAG Assist man diagnose it as a faulty switch first time around?!?" I hear you cry...

Well, to make things more complicated, the original diagnostic screen I posted (back on page 1) showing the VW assist man had diagnosed F447 switch, is right but the fault is actually combined, it's the switch AND the sensor, however they only replace the switch if the sensor further fails in the plan. Both the switch and the señor have the same F447 number, but are supplied at different stages of the test plan. I asked to see evidence of this and he showed my the job sheet, so I know it wasn't a cop-out.

All in all I sort of understand their thinking, however it's a bit of a clusterf**k to say the least, and leaves people in limbo because any faults that come from something originally failing won't be found without a further trip to the dealer. All because they need to ensure all cars inside warranty are given equal attention. :huh:

Anyway, I have the car back now, and fingers crossed there's no more problems with it. Now to get on the phone to the supplying dealer to find out where the f*** my replacement wheels & tyres are... the joy! :rolleyes:
SOLD March 2021
2019 GTI Performance, 5DR, DSG - Isaac Blue, Leather, Pan Roof, 19" Brescias, DCC, Dynaudio, Rear Camera, Keyless, Electric Memory Driver Seat.

Offline Watts

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #47 on: 25 July 2019, 17:30 »
Glad you appear to have it sorted, now you can get on with enjoying the drive :smiley:
2019 Oryx White 5dr TCR.

Was - 2015 Tornado Red 3dr GTI PP, manual, Santiagos, Audi short shifter.

Offline kmpowell

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #48 on: 30 July 2019, 10:04 »
Glad you appear to have it sorted, now you can get on with enjoying the drive :smiley:
500 miles since picking it up and I think it’s safe to say it’s fixed. Great to have it back and be able to drive/push the car with confidence.  :cool:
SOLD March 2021
2019 GTI Performance, 5DR, DSG - Isaac Blue, Leather, Pan Roof, 19" Brescias, DCC, Dynaudio, Rear Camera, Keyless, Electric Memory Driver Seat.

Offline Exonian

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Re: EPC fault
« Reply #49 on: 30 July 2019, 14:10 »
Glad you appear to have it sorted, now you can get on with enjoying the drive :smiley:
500 miles since picking it up and I think it’s safe to say it’s fixed. Great to have it back and be able to drive/push the car with confidence.  :cool:


Fingers crossed!  :smiley:
‘25 8.5R, ‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten