Hyundai "Golf GTI beater"

[scanesare]

Quite some snobbery and hate for the Hyundai regarding allegedly cheaper materials and build quality (??). That could be ok for a regular i30 vs Golf comparison (even if still nowhere as big as it is implied in some comments), however when it comes to performance models like GTI vs i30N I like how everyone seems to miss the obvious elephant in the room:

We can brag on the GTI being the car that established the class, and its mature entry-level premium feel, but driving wise it is the least powerful and focused hot-hatch in the market currently. Take every other top fwd hot-hatch and it's clear the GTI has been left behind in both power and suspension: Peugeuot 308 GTI, Hyundai i30N, Leon Cupra, Civic Type R, (and almost certainly the new Megane RS) they are all sharper and more engaging weapons. Even in its most focused form, the Clubsport, (and I say this as an owner) is still not able to come out on top. Despite the countless variants, VW has managed to miss making one to compete for the top hot-hatch place. If you follow Sutcliff's review for EVO you realize how much effort has been spent on the dynamics of the i30N and that is not something you can easily overlook when you're buying with driving engagement in mind (as should be in the case of hot-hatches imo).

I am not implying I would take an i30N or Civic Type R over a GTI over looks because I wouldn't but if that's all the GTI stands out for any more then it's clear VW have forgotten their roots and have become too soft with this car.

[fredgroves]

I don't think many I see out and about with a GTI or even myself with a GTD bought the thing for lap times around the Ring or coming first at a track day or something.

Its not so much about the sportiness or even the badge for me, its about the package vs price.

Outside of VAG group (and ignoring the differences within it) I couldn't find something offering the sum total of what a Golf means to me - and again, I'm not a die hard Golfer either.

I'd not touch a Civic, a BMW 1 Series, a Merc A class and certainly not any kind of performance French car (been there, done that in the past, never again).

If I wanted to loon around a track, I'd buy something totally different to a 30k hot hatch.

[Jim_mk7.5]

I don't think many I see out and about with a GTI or even myself with a GTD bought the thing for lap times around the Ring or coming first at a track day or something.

Its not so much about the sportiness or even the badge for me, its about the package vs price.

Outside of VAG group (and ignoring the differences within it) I couldn't find something offering the sum total of what a Golf means to me - and again, I'm not a die hard Golfer either.

I'd not touch a Civic, a BMW 1 Series, a Merc A class and certainly not any kind of performance French car (been there, done that in the past, never again).

If I wanted to loon around a track, I'd buy something totally different to a 30k hot hatch.

Agreed, think the performance Golfs offer a lot for the money and whilst they might not be the fastest, or the sharpest or most track focussed, they are still massively capable and still the benchmark for a good all round hot hatch. Other manufacturers are obviously keen to make a car better than the Golf as they know that's still what they all compared to.

[scanesare]

It's not about track work though, that's totally the other end. None of those cars is able to withstand heavy track use in stock form anyway. But you don't need a track to appreciate handling, chassis and feedback neither you need to do crazy speeds. All you need is some wrong camber and a few nice bends. The Golf had that in the past but in recent years VW has chosen to focus more on cabin feel than road feel. Ok they've never been the most hardcore cars out there but being bettered in this area by practically every other competitor is worrying.

I agree that performance Golf offer quite a car for the money overall but it is clear that the dynamics priority and chassis honing has been set worryingly low for a car with the GTI badge on that's all I'm saying. On the R it's more forgiveable as the AWD and extra power offers some alternatives of fun.

The i30N does not target the "occassional straight-line flooring" squad which most GTI drivers sound to be belonging to anyway so it might not even be a direct competitor even though in theory it should. If someone can have a read at EVO's latest supertest in the mag between Civic Type R, Focus RS and Leon Cupra 300 you'll realize how far ahead the game has gone in this segment. So far in fact that the previously so much praised Cupra falls so short against the newcomer from Honda (and i30N seprately reviewed sounds to be close) that you can only imagine how much behind the GTI would be in the current hot-hatch war. VW have got the styling just right imo with the MK7, time to spend some time on the chassis for the MK8 otherwise I'm afraid the GTI will start to appear in group tests against a3 quattro, focus ST, a250 and the rest warm hatches.

[fredgroves]

There's an interesting piece here:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/honda-civic-type-r-vs-focus-rs-vs-golf-r-vs-leon-cupra

What I get from this piece is that the Civic isn't for everyone (I'd never want one), the Focus RS is just a bit primitive and that the Leon is edgy because the lack of 4wd makes it a bit bonkers.

Then there is the Golf R, which in that test they say would be better if their car had DCC. Not sure I agree with that, having had two Golfs back to back with and without.

Now the difference between a GTI and any of these? I think the R grabs attention for most just by the power figure. Its certainly not by any chasis changes. 4WD, yes, when you edge 300bhp its probably a good idea but back it off to 242bhp with the PP and its probably not an issue.

So, R vs GTI aside, the one thing that struck me in that article was this:

Both the Golf and Leon have been updated in the last few months. They have more power, better software, sharper LED light signatures, enhanced safety systems and bigger infotainment screens. And, yes, I’m afraid to say that all that stuff matters. You might not care that the Leon now has wireless phone charging or Pedestrian Protection, but lots of people shelling out £30k on a new car do. In this sector, the hot hatch has grown up. And yes, I am alluding to the fact that image matters.

followed by this:

get sniffy about hot hatches and you’re missing the point. Get sniffy and you end up with the Golf R. That’s the Tate Modern of hot hatches: there’s an edginess there somewhere, but it’s all rather culturally sophisticated.

[scanesare]

There's an interesting piece here:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/honda-civic-type-r-vs-focus-rs-vs-golf-r-vs-leon-cupra

You got me wondering with the quotes for a moment but I just read the test and the most "driver's car", the Civic, walks it (as it does in the EVO supertest) with the R finishing second from the end. I'm not sure if it actually proved your point or mine  - the guy is clearly excited about the Civic in every way - it even has a bigger boot than any other Golf if you can believe that. Its only problem is the samurai looks and if it weren't for those i think VW would be having a much bigger problem.

By the way we're still talking about the GTI which you surely must have noticed doesn't feature anywhere in this test or any other top hot-hatch test lately, and for good reason it seems. As a car overall it's fine but as a driving machine it's  not up there with the best of its class any more. If all it has to brag about is latest infotainment and safety systems then it's serious.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure nobody would say a GTI is a bad car, but it's too lukewarm to be taken seriously in a hot-hatch challenge which I am sure several people are fine with but not me. I'd like to be able to pick a range-topping MK8 over its competitors for the driving feel and chassis and not because of the big screen or softer plastics, otherwise why not look at the other Germans as well?

[fredgroves]

I think the GTI doesn't feature simply because they've chosen the most powerful in the lineup to test... as I said, I don't think there is much to choose from between the R and the GTI-PP other than the headline power figure, which then requires 4WD and the cost difference that goes with it. I don't think that magical handling aspect plays into that choice much.

When its available, I'll probably have a go with the Hyundai, which I won't with the Civic or the Focus... probably because I know what the other two mean already.

I don't want a Leon at all, I can't afford a similar spec BMW or Audi or Merc.

On the other hand, I think I'm ready next time for a DSG, which Hyundai don't have.

Its 2.5 years away for me anyway, which almost certainly means Mk8 time.

We shall see

[kalimon]

I don't think many I see out and about with a GTI or even myself with a GTD bought the thing for lap times around the Ring or coming first at a track day or something.

Its not so much about the sportiness or even the badge for me, its about the package vs price.

Outside of VAG group (and ignoring the differences within it) I couldn't find something offering the sum total of what a Golf means to me - and again, I'm not a die hard Golfer either.

I'd not touch a Civic, a BMW 1 Series, a Merc A class and certainly not any kind of performance French car (been there, done that in the past, never again).

If I wanted to loon around a track, I'd buy something totally different to a 30k hot hatch.

Well put, and I couldn't agree more

[scanesare]

I don't think many I see out and about with a GTI or even myself with a GTD bought the thing for lap times around the Ring or coming first at a track day or something.

Its not so much about the sportiness or even the badge for me, its about the package vs price.

Outside of VAG group (and ignoring the differences within it) I couldn't find something offering the sum total of what a Golf means to me - and again, I'm not a die hard Golfer either.

I'd not touch a Civic, a BMW 1 Series, a Merc A class and certainly not any kind of performance French car (been there, done that in the past, never again).

If I wanted to loon around a track, I'd buy something totally different to a 30k hot hatch.

Well put, and I couldn't agree more

See my reply above regarding what sort of performance I meant, nothing to do with the track, it's pretty much road!

On the other hand I bet most of you/us must have thought or even said that "well you see it's not as sportive as a GTI" when someone brought up a Skoda Octavia vRS as an alternative even though it's as capable as well-built and hugely more practical than a GTI Fox and the Grapes anyone? 

[Sootchucker]

For me, the thing that has always impressed me about performance Golf's is that they just do the job without shouting about it. If you want to be noticed and look like you've just crashed into Halfords, then surely the Civics or Focus RS are the cars you - wings, fins and all.

However if you want an understated fast hatch that ticks all the boxes (performance, handling, comfort, practicality, looks and equipment), then in my opinion the Golf is still the one to beat. Sure there are more powerful hatches, hatches with wheel arch bulges, scoops and spoilers, bigger boots, cheaper prices, but really.... one that does it all so well as the Golf ?

It's interesting that whenever a magazine or on-line article is comparing small to medium family hatches, the Golf always seems to be the one that it's bench marked against.

I'm sure it will be a cracking car, very fast, competitively priced, good warranty, but I'd have to see it in the flesh, as whilst VW build quality isn't perfect, compared to a lot of it's peers, it's still pretty good, and if the build quality isn't a significant step up from my neighbors I3 cooking model, then that in itself could be enough to kill it before it get's going.