Author Topic: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.  (Read 11656 times)

Offline clubsport

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Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« on: 04 December 2016, 19:31 »
Today turned out to be quite a special and memorable day for me.

Many thanks to ViperGTS for showing me round and allowing me to drive his new car.

I currently own a GTi PP which I find to be a good road car with the potential to have some fun,  at the time of purchase I also considered a 997 GTS but the Golf won, mainly for it’s practicality.

I am old and experienced enough to make my own view on cars, having owned quite a few real Porsche Clubsport variants when manufacturers were allowed to do it properly!  :smiley:

I was cautious not to be over influenced by any preconceived judgement of the popular motoring journalists.
Having been fortunate enough to have participated in a few car magazine group tests, some involving world class racing drivers, I have a reasonable idea of the process and what makes a car stand out among it’s peers.
A few weekend visits to the ring have also proven that you don’t just turn up with a car out of the box and not find some area of the drive or dynamics that disappoints.
Apologies for the tedious prologue, I just wanted to point out I am not some wide eyed fanboy, looking at the shiny Golf! (It was shiny!  :laugh:)

Initial impressions, for those unfamiliar with the Golf, at first glance it may look a little disappointing, maybe even bland, however the detail is there.
Apart from the larger wheels, brakes (ali bells) and exhaust pipes, the lack of parking sensors or front corner lights, show VW have paid attention to the Clubsport ethos.

Lighter battery.



For those with a keen eye, there does appear to be some negative camber on both front and rear axles, this looks far more pronounced on the rear compared to the regular GTi set up.

Front camber



Rear camber



Looking under the bonnet, it could be stock GTi, apart from the slightly smaller battery fitted and the repositioning of the smaller windscreen fluid reservoir. After all every litre of water weighs an extra Kilogramme. (@4degrees C).



In the cabin, the sports buckets are as comfortable and supportive as any other German manufacturer would supply, the alcantara steering wheel is more tactile than the regular GTi offering, although felt to be the same size. The rear view mirror is not the anti dazzle type you find in the GTi, just a flat mirror without a casing, that must save 200g? :huh:



The Clubsport-S. steering wheel does not have adaptive cruise buttons, but does have the front assist, which you can deactivate.
Looking through the set up, on either race or individual settings, there was no evidence of the mythical “Nurburgring” setting.  More on this when I discuss driving the car.

Behind the wheel, at slow speeds the control weights are regular GTi, driving slowly apart from a little more noise from the exhaust and the odd stone flicking up under the arch which is amplified by no rear seats, no doubt due to lack of trim or sound deadening.

We drove over typical undulating twisty Kentish B roads, with only 70 odd miles on the clock the car obviously felt tight and had instant pick up without any rattles whatsoever.
Importantly the ride even in race was fine, communicative and so direct. So often on cars that have been modified from standard you find something has not been totally resolved such as the negative tendency to tramline.

As I mentioned earlier having driven the ring a few times, it is unlike a conventional race circuit in that you really need some compliance in the suspension to stay on line.
The lack of Nurburgring mode now doesn’t surprise me as such, the “race” setting felt perfectly compliant, I now wonder if this race mode was “ring” mode on this model?
The Nordschleife is a public toll road after all, we found race was spot on for the B roads we drove on.

After having been privileged to drive Viper’s car, I have to say I get it and was suitably impressed.

When I jumped back into my own GTi PP, I retraced the route we had driven as a comparison.
My own car, which I know well and is run in was great along those roads, there are a couple of tight second gear turns  where I could feel the benefit of the VAQ diff playing it’s part.

So, to summarise the Clubsport-S.
It is perfectly tractable and provides so much feedback, exactly what a Clubsport variant of a regular model should offer.
I feel VW have put quite a lot of effort into this car, more than is immediately apparent, the important point being, even on a short drive the car let’s you know it’s potential. I can’t stress that enough.

From my brief drive, this car may not be for every GTi owner (apart from the 2 seats).
You get the impression the capabilities of this car are way beyond the regular GTi, it will come into it’s own where the GTi ordinaire has become ragged. You really need the space and scope of a track to exploit that.
It really does feel as if they have developed the car to work with the driver, compared to some ring specials like the Ruf CTR which just wants to kill you and you need race driver talent to keep on the road, the Clubsport-S feels like it will be on your side.

Once again many thanks to ViperGTS, great to catch up and for letting me drive his sublime Clubsport-S.
Sadly I missed out on an allocation of a Clubsport-S, but will definitely look out for the opportunity to own one at a sensible price in the future.
Having owned and driven some of the best Porsche lightweights as well as some of their newer "GT" specials, I can honestly say I would take the keys to this Golf variant over a GT4.  :smiley:

Offline volkswizard

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #1 on: 04 December 2016, 19:42 »
(is that a Morgan Aero 8 with rear exit exhausts?)
Clubsport, in the absence of my own CSS for at least a week or so, your driving experience based review has been very welcome and I'm glad you found the hype justified.  Thank you and thanks to Viper for making it happen  :cool:

I am pretty sure anything Nurburgring branding anything requires a fee to be paid to the trade mark holder so that might explain the absence of anything official on the car - I presume Vauxhall/Opel paid plenty for the privilege of branding their Astra VXR 'Nurburgring' but then they sponsor the England football team..
« Last Edit: 04 December 2016, 19:53 by volkswizard »

Offline TurboTrev

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #2 on: 04 December 2016, 20:19 »
Great review that I'm sure will reassure those S owners that are still waiting for theirs to arrive. :cool:

Jackie Treehorn

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #3 on: 04 December 2016, 21:08 »
thanks for the review, lovely car Viper

It does look like a shed load of rear camber  :shocked:

Offline GT4

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #4 on: 04 December 2016, 21:28 »
Great review and much appreciated until you got to the point that you would rather have a front engined, front wheel drive turbo charged car than a Mid engine, rear wheel drive, naturally aspirated GT Porsche haha - I guess I must count myself lucky to have both LOL 😂

Back to CS-S ... how is the driving position and what does the car sound like ... on all the videos it sounds terrible and fake and synthesised ...???

Offline vipergts

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #5 on: 04 December 2016, 21:47 »
Turn the synth off and you can hear it from the exhaust. I've still only driven it from the garage to home 5 miles on Friday.

Offline clubsport

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #6 on: 04 December 2016, 22:06 »
GT4, I don't go on about it much, particularly as this is a Golf forum but I also own a full homologation Porsche RS-CS, the last race car Porsche could make to be road legal, produced in less numbers than CS-S are coming to the UK.
I sort of have the Porsche thing covered? :)
It usually has quite an effect on anyone who has driven it!

The Golf is resolved, where as I found the GT4 frustrating with that long gearing, where the Golf was fine in 3rd or 4th gear I would have been stuck in 2nd in the Cayman. Lets not mention rev matching, I prefer to heal and toe, if that's ok with you Porsche? :)

Sure, the Golf is a Fwd hot hatch, but for those of us who have driven hot hatches over the years, the Current Golf is a fantastic evolution. The CS-S then takes it beyond a hot hatch road car.

If you are even considering an A45, a CS-S on the road may not be for you.

Consider this, the CS-S appears to offer rewards over and above a regular GTi the harder you drive it, maybe beyond limits available on the road? Question mark as I didn't try.
A 4WD Turbo rocket hatch is more likely to take over some of the feeling of engagement with driver aids the harder you drive it. To me that is the difference, by some margin.
You may get more speed, but less feedback and interaction the harder you push.

There is certain fakery to the noise in race, it is not unpleasant, but you can turn that down in individual, then you hear more of the exhaust due to the lack of rear seats.
It is not all about statistics and internet bravado. The point with the CS-S is that you have to be prepared to drive them. I only had a taste and want more!. I have driven various 4wd Turbo cars and the speedo is way higher than the feeling, not my thing.

I was thinking about it and although it mostly uses existing parts from the VW parts bin, they appear to have spent some time in the set up of the car, considering they had a production run of 400 cars I can't see this as much of a money maker for VW? It's also curious that 150/400 production run is coming to the UK, yet it is so low key in the dealer network.

Offline Exonian

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #7 on: 04 December 2016, 22:59 »
Excellent and very thorough write up clubsport.
It's good to hear a Golf GTI owner's thoughts on the car and with your background you can offer some really good insights.

GTI owners (or at least certain circles of them) have long been bemoaning the lack of a lighter weight more focussed drivers car and thankfully VW have done a great job now they've finally got round to doing it.
Hats off to VW and maybe a ClubSport version will become a semi regular production model now that this one has been so well received.
Unlike the shelved or semi-shelved R400/420 which was just a show off model, the CSS at least has a purpose and is useable straight out of the box even if it was just a marketing exercise. I doubt VW made any money on the project.
‘25 8.5R, ‘23 8R, ‘20 8CS, ‘19 135iX, ‘19 TCR, ‘17 Ed40, ‘17 GTD, ‘15 7R, ‘13 GTI PP, ‘11 GTI, ‘09 GTI, ‘98 Ibiza Cupra, ‘05 GTI, ‘06 Polo GTI, ‘04 GT TDI, ‘05 Fabia vRS, ‘02 GTI T, ‘03 Ibiza TDI 130, ‘01 Leon 180, ‘89 mk2 16v, ‘99 Ibiza TDI, ‘96 VR6, ‘98 Ibiza TDI, ‘92 VR6, ‘88 mk2 8v, ‘92 Polo G40, ‘91 mk2 8v, ‘89 mk2 8v, 205 GTI 1.9, ‘83 mk1 GTI, ‘80 Scirocco GTI, plus some others I’ve forgotten 

Offline GT4

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #8 on: 04 December 2016, 23:06 »
Thanks Clubsport ... you obviously know your stuff - do you think the CS-S would be a good daily or am I just buying another GT4 so to speak ... which is why I was thinking AMG or maybe RS3 ???!

I like the limited run scenario but wonder if it's worth the hype and I should just go down a different route!

Offline volkswizard

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Re: Driving impressions of the Clubsport-S.
« Reply #9 on: 05 December 2016, 08:40 »
GT4, I don't go on about it much, particularly as this is a Golf forum but I also own a full homologation Porsche RS-CS, the last race car Porsche could make to be road legal, produced in less numbers than CS-S are coming to the UK.
I sort of have the Porsche thing covered? :)
It usually has quite an effect on anyone who has driven it!

The Golf is resolved, where as I found the GT4 frustrating with that long gearing, where the Golf was fine in 3rd or 4th gear I would have been stuck in 2nd in the Cayman. Lets not mention rev matching, I prefer to heal and toe, if that's ok with you Porsche? :)

Sure, the Golf is a Fwd hot hatch, but for those of us who have driven hot hatches over the years, the Current Golf is a fantastic evolution. The CS-S then takes it beyond a hot hatch road car.

If you are even considering an A45, a CS-S on the road may not be for you.

Consider this, the CS-S appears to offer rewards over and above a regular GTi the harder you drive it, maybe beyond limits available on the road? Question mark as I didn't try.
A 4WD Turbo rocket hatch is more likely to take over some of the feeling of engagement with driver aids the harder you drive it. To me that is the difference, by some margin.
You may get more speed, but less feedback and interaction the harder you push.

There is certain fakery to the noise in race, it is not unpleasant, but you can turn that down in individual, then you hear more of the exhaust due to the lack of rear seats.
It is not all about statistics and internet bravado. The point with the CS-S is that you have to be prepared to drive them. I only had a taste and want more!. I have driven various 4wd Turbo cars and the speedo is way higher than the feeling, not my thing.

I was thinking about it and although it mostly uses existing parts from the VW parts bin, they appear to have spent some time in the set up of the car, considering they had a production run of 400 cars I can't see this as much of a money maker for VW? It's also curious that 150/400 production run is coming to the UK, yet it is so low key in the dealer network.

Maybe some of the dealer crew here can explain the low key nature of the car? My suspicions are that here in the UK dealer network it's all about bottom line, they are franchises on small margins and aren't seen as there to get excited about folly like the CSS which if they were lucky enough to get an allocation will barely dent the sales targets of that month.

Thanks for reminding me about the Cayman GT4 gearing, biggest disappointment of driving a 981 for me, so much so I sold mine straight away after years of lusting for one, all for chasing emissions targets.  It's so bad someone has developed a lowered final drive kit.  I don't get why they didn't deal with this on the GT4 considering its remit.