Ok, here goes...

[monkeyhanger]

I was getting about 460 miles a tank in the GTD in the Winter, and i'm getting about 340 miles to a tank in the R (although the R's tank is 9% bigger). Not bad at all, although my commute has gone from 12 miles each way to 20 miles each way, if I was only doing 12 miles in the R, which helps the mpg.

After 7 brand new VW TDIs in a row, I had made my mind up that I needed an R to escape the horrendous tramping (a change of tyres probably would've sorted it). The difference in performance is huge when you really wring the R's neck (even against a GTD with DTUK box on), but a bi-turbo MK8 GTD+/GTDR with 250ps and a tuning box to get it up to 310ps might tempt me back to the black pump in future.

Right now though, I could really see myself sticking with this R 3 or 4 years (having a 5 year warranty helps with the reassurance, mine has dipped into the warranty pot a few times already).

Although the R could be faster with a box, I wouldn't dare add it. Too many people have pushed a GTI or R too far and cooked a clutch or Turbo very prematurely, not a single person here (to my knowledge) has seen a modified GTD fail in the same way. VW's TDI tech does always seem to be generously over-engineered, but the TSIs don't seem to have much more to give without considerable risk.

I love my R, it is the best car i've owned, especially with a tyre change. I was initially underwhelmed with my GTD - hugely linear power delivery and refinement seemed to make it feel so much slower than it actually was, it took the DTUK box to liven it up a bit. You might only get to use that extra 116ps for 5% of your commute, but when you do it always puts a smile on your face.

[Darlo]

I've owned a mk7 GTI with a DTUK box and now own an S3 with DTUK box installed.... My Mrs owns a gtd that I use every now and again. It's ok but not a patch on either the gti or s3 (similar to R). She only gets 420 miles to a tank. I get 350 in s3 and got 370/380 in the gti.

If the gtd was a lot better on fuel I would totally understand the appeal of it but it's just not good enough in my opinion. She used to have the 170bhp a3 and that was a lot better on fuel, maybe as much as 10mpg.  Although I would be intrigued to have a go in a mapped gtd. All the remaps I have had done over the years have always seen an improvement in economy as well as the obvious performance increase.

[monkeyhanger]

I've owned a mk7 GTI with a DTUK box and now own an S3 with DTUK box installed.... My Mrs owns a gtd that I use every now and again. It's ok but not a patch on either the gti or s3 (similar to R). She only gets 420 miles to a tank. I get 350 in s3 and got 370/380 in the gti.

If the gtd was a lot better on fuel I would totally understand the appeal of it but it's just not good enough in my opinion. She used to have the 170bhp a3 and that was a lot better on fuel, maybe as much as 10mpg.  Although I would be intrigued to have a go in a mapped gtd. All the remaps I have had done over the years have always seen an improvement in economy as well as the obvious performance increase.

I found no difference at all with actual mpg with a DTUK box on, or a TDITuning box on, indicated mpg did go up appreciably, a product of the box making the car use more fuel than it thinks it is using. I'm sure that's where pretty much all the increased mpg claims come from. They don't have to consider the effects of their work on emissions, but combustion of fuel is basic chemistry:-

More fuel and air in = more CO2, N2 and water out (ideally). Add increased temperatures and pressures that diesel engines operate at and some of that N2 and O2 in the air becomes NOx in appreciable quantities. Up the temperature, make the engine run lean (an excess of air to that needed to burn the fuel) and you get a more efficient burn with fewer particulates, but you get more NOx too. It's a balancing act for the engine manufacturers between particulates and NOx for emission standards compliance.

The Box developers and remappers have no such considerations to make. My DTUK box halved my DPF regens, almost certainly a product of running the car leaner than VW had set it up, making fewer particulates (and making the car a little more efficient, we're talking a few % here at most, countered by the fact that when you put your foot down you will be using more, so overall my economy stayed the same for more  performance - not a bad thing!). But if the particulates are down, the NOx is probably through the roof.

The car manufacturers are getting around hotter/leaner burns to up economy and power by having the "Clearblue" tanks on their cars now - Audi are doing it on the 190ps variants of the GTD engine. A tiny bit of Urea injected into the exhaust reduces the NOx of a lean burn back to N2, CO2 and water.

I don't think it will be long before we see DPFs on higher compression petrol engines running on RON97-99. Petrol engines are becoming more like diesel engines to raise the economy - running at higher temperatures and pressures, as far as they can push the fuel without pinking. The state my R's pipes get in is proof that petrol engines kick out particulates too (smaller, less visible in the air, but more dispersible and dangerous as a result). With no control measures to capture the soot, i'd expect that the exhaust output of an R is a fair bit dirtier than a GTD in terms of CO2 and particulates, but still a fair bit lower on the NOx.

GTD or GTI/R from an environmental point of view depends on whether you think that CO2, Particulates or NOx is the biggest threat to health. The mpg differences between the 3 aren't as big as you'd expect, and the lowest fuel prices for 6 years helps swallowing that difference. I'm spending amount on fuel on my R as I was on the GTD 2 years ago.

[Exonian]

Well, where do I start?

Or if you have the space buy a tank and fill it. I have nearly 4000 litres of diesel at the back of my garage.

That reply doesn't give the impression that you may possibly not be quite your average Joe at all.
A 4000 litre tank would be bigger than my entire garden.
A postage stamp is nearly bigger than my garden come to think of it. I'm not big on gardening by the way.

Knowing, a couple of days ago, that this thread would be forthcoming very soon, lol, I was trying to guess what the title would be and it was something along the lines of....."Ok, here.......

I think you should get yourself in a GTD, I can't see this particular itch lessening any time soon. 

It's not really an itch, but I do have some weird thoughts in the middle of the night when there's not much to do in my little padded cell.

Good post!

I have recently jumped out of the R (although still own it for another few weeks) into a Jag XE for the same reasons. Got a DTUK box on it and it's a great mile muncher, similar to a GTD. On a Sunday morning I miss my mapped R, but the rest of the week, it's a better all rounder for Norfolk roads

Thanks!

BTW, Andrew @ DTUK used your testimonial and pic on Instagram today!

Is this why you never posted it on the R forum Andy? 

I think you're along the right lines Steve!

You need your head checked pal

That's what I love about the Scots! 
(you're not wrong btw)

I was getting about 460 miles a tank in the GTD in the Winter, and i'm getting about 340 miles to a tank in the R (although the R's tank is 9% bigger). Not bad at all, although my commute has gone from 12 miles each way to 20 miles each way, if I was only doing 12 miles in the R, which helps the mpg.

After 7 brand new VW TDIs in a row, I had made my mind up that I needed an R to escape the horrendous tramping (a change of tyres probably would've sorted it). The difference in performance is huge when you really wring the R's neck (even against a GTD with DTUK box on), but a bi-turbo MK8 GTD+/GTDR with 250ps and a tuning box to get it up to 310ps might tempt me back to the black pump in future.

Right now though, I could really see myself sticking with this R 3 or 4 years (having a 5 year warranty helps with the reassurance, mine has dipped into the warranty pot a few times already).

Although the R could be faster with a box, I wouldn't dare add it. Too many people have pushed a GTI or R too far and cooked a clutch or Turbo very prematurely, not a single person here (to my knowledge) has seen a modified GTD fail in the same way. VW's TDI tech does always seem to be generously over-engineered, but the TSIs don't seem to have much more to give without considerable risk.

I love my R, it is the best car i've owned, especially with a tyre change. I was initially underwhelmed with my GTD - hugely linear power delivery and refinement seemed to make it feel so much slower than it actually was, it took the DTUK box to liven it up a bit. You might only get to use that extra 116ps for 5% of your commute, but when you do it always puts a smile on your face.

I get to use the extra 116PS about 0.00% of my commute.
Probably about 1% of my entire annual driving.
I'm getting old, I can't be arsed to rev the engine hard anymore - I like zippy and fun without doing the big speeds.
The trouble with tuning boxes on the R is that the peak figures on the graphs look to be quite high in the range where as with a Diesel the power and torque is slap bang where you're going to use it.
The downside of a tuned Diesel is that it feels really powerful at first, like you're driving a big torquey V8 then all of a sudden you run out of revs!!! Is there a happy medium? Maybe I need a V8 in my life.

I respect my R but I don't love it. I love driving it though! It just feels like an extraordinary powerful but very normal Golf - which in itself is a massive testament to the engineering that tames the power (and indeed the power itself).
Maybe I just need a different hobby instead of playing around with cars? Knitting?

Most likely I'll end up keeping the R a few years and mapping it nearer the end of the warranty, possibly adding some retrofits along the way as a bit of a project.

[monkeyhanger]

I get to use the extra 116PS about 0.00% of my commute.
Probably about 1% of my entire annual driving.
I'm getting old, I can't be arsed to rev the engine hard anymore - I like zippy and fun without doing the big speeds.
The trouble with tuning boxes on the R is that the peak figures on the graphs look to be quite high in the range where as with a Diesel the power and torque is slap bang where you're going to use it.
The downside of a tuned Diesel is that it feels really powerful at first, like you're driving a big torquey V8 then all of a sudden you run out of revs!!! Is there a happy medium? Maybe I need a V8 in my life.

Maybe I just need a different hobby instead of playing around with cars? Knitting?

I know exactly what you mean about diesel power delivery - for a few weeks after I got the R,  it felt alien to wring it's neck to get the most out of it, rather than just being able to put your foot down in the gear you're already in to get that burst you need to get from 60-80 reasonably quickly, or just dropping from 6th to 4th to get from 50 to 80mph very quickly. I usually get 3 or 4 opportunities on my commute to fly off a roundabout or sliproad from 20 to 80, and I enjoy every single one of them. I do change gear far more often in the R than Iever did in the GTD.

Other hobbies? I'm a big Lego fan, which can be pricey in it's own right, but the huge sets that give a sense of achievement and look impressive as a display piece are usually worth more than you paid for them a year or 2 after they retired, when used (they're worth silly money unopened). Right now i'm halfway through one of these:-



Just over 4600 pieces. I usually go for Star Wars UCS sets like this 5195 piece, 3' x 2' beast:-

[Cossieian]

When I first got my GTD it struggled to get over 400 miles per tank, but as I put more miles on it it started to get slightly better up to about 450 per tank on a good run.

I'm actually quite surprised how good my R is on fuel, my average tank range is about 320-330, but last week we had a few long journeys and I think i got 370 miles

In saying that if you fancy changing then just do it mate, life's to short

[Exonian]

I know exactly what you mean about diesel power delivery - for a few weeks after I got the R,  it felt alien to wring it's neck to get the most out of it, rather than just being able to put your foot down in the gear you're already in to get that burst you need to get from 60-80 reasonably quickly, or just dropping from 6th to 4th to get from 50 to 80mph very quickly. I usually get 3 or 4 opportunities on my commute to fly off a roundabout or sliproad from 20 to 80, and I enjoy every single one of them. I do change gear far more often in the R than Iever did in the GTD.

Other hobbies? I'm a big Lego fan, which can be pricey in it's own right, but the huge sets that give a sense of achievement and look impressive as a display piece are usually worth more than you paid for them a year or 2 after they retired, when used (they're worth silly money unopened). Right now i'm halfway through one of these:-

I remember you saying about your Lego collection before - a good investment and worth more than gold (as you well know).

Before I moved house my wife spent literally weeks (she doesn't have a proper job so has lots of time on her hands) sat on the floor sifting through the kids old Lego sets as we had a whole load of first edition Harry Potter sets. We used to buy them when Boots did 3for2 promotions before Xmas then sell the surplus sets.
Obviously at the time we had absolutely no idea the Harry Potter sets were first edition, they were just kids toys we bought as Xmas gifts; but they sold for very strong money on eBay once SWMBO had finished her marathon session of sifting through boxes and boxes of sets, getting all the parts and assembling them for photos and checking they were 100% complete. Mind you if you put the hours in as labour rates she's was probably only on about 10p an hour! The boys did ok out of it though, they put the money into premium bonds.
We sold dozens of sets and the ones we didn't sell because they were incomplete we put into a massive job lot that sold for over £100. As it included a lot of the original boxes I think the box I ended up posting it all in was about 4ft high and a couple foot across. The people that bought our house saw it when they came to view as it was awaiting the courier to collect it, they asked what it was and were absolutely gutted when we told them it was full of Lego as they had a five or six year old son.
I kept a load of Star Wars figures as little keepsakes.

[Exonian]

When I first got my GTD it struggled to get over 400 miles per tank, but as I put more miles on it it started to get slightly better up to about 450 per tank on a good run.

I'm actually quite surprised how good my R is on fuel, my average tank range is about 320-330, but last week we had a few long journeys and I think i got 370 miles

In saying that if you fancy changing then just do it mate, life's to short

My R is doing mostly town work but when I do take it out on the open road it's so hilly where I live it still won't get 30mpg on a trip this time of year. I'm going to take it on a few longer journeys this coming week to see how it fares. Not that the fuel mileage is very important to me as I cover a low mileage.

I think I just need a few challenges with the R to get it how I want it, maybe a nav retrofit and another set of wheels. Not that I need a nav, it's just the challenge of cracking the fitment and getting it for less than the factory charge. And not that I need more wheels as I already have three sets... 
And more mid-range torque - that's what I really need.

[barrym381]

I get to use the extra 116PS about 0.00% of my commute.
Probably about 1% of my entire annual driving.
I'm getting old, I can't be arsed to rev the engine hard anymore - I like zippy and fun without doing the big speeds.
The trouble with tuning boxes on the R is that the peak figures on the graphs look to be quite high in the range where as with a Diesel the power and torque is slap bang where you're going to use it.
The downside of a tuned Diesel is that it feels really powerful at first, like you're driving a big torquey V8 then all of a sudden you run out of revs!!! Is there a happy medium? Maybe I need a V8 in my life.

Maybe I just need a different hobby instead of playing around with cars? Knitting?

I know exactly what you mean about diesel power delivery - for a few weeks after I got the R,  it felt alien to wring it's neck to get the most out of it, rather than just being able to put your foot down in the gear you're already in to get that burst you need to get from 60-80 reasonably quickly, or just dropping from 6th to 4th to get from 50 to 80mph very quickly. I usually get 3 or 4 opportunities on my commute to fly off a roundabout or sliproad from 20 to 80, and I enjoy every single one of them. I do change gear far more often in the R than Iever did in the GTD.

Other hobbies? I'm a big Lego fan, which can be pricey in it's own right, but the huge sets that give a sense of achievement and look impressive as a display piece are usually worth more than you paid for them a year or 2 after they retired, when used (they're worth silly money unopened). Right now i'm halfway through one of these:-



Just over 4600 pieces. I usually go for Star Wars UCS sets like this 5195 piece, 3' x 2' beast:-

I have an old lego set with a couple of metal vw bettles in it hadn't seen it for years and forgot they done a few metal cars to go with the sets years ago 

[Mk7-GTD]

Well, where do I start?

Or if you have the space buy a tank and fill it. I have nearly 4000 litres of diesel at the back of my garage.

That reply doesn't give the impression that you may possibly not be quite your average Joe at all.
A 4000 litre tank would be bigger than my entire garden.
A postage stamp is nearly bigger than my garden come to think of it. I'm not big on gardening by the way

It's an 8,000 litre thank actually but it is just under half full. You would be surprised how small the thank is compared to what you would think it would be.

I got the tank, full of diesel(not red in case anyone was thinking) in exchange for floor and wall tiles that cost me nothing because I got them almost free from my brother who is a tile importer.

It is all boxed in so you would never know it was even there.