Golf R and Gti PP back to back test drive

[drisser]

Hi all

have been away from the forum for a bit but back in the fold for a possible GTi again soon.   With all the chatter and road tests about the R being amazing I set up a 2 hour test drive of an R this weekend to see what I thought.

Having got used to Quattro in my TT I do certainly appreciate 4wd and with the impression of the GTi (220) I test drove before I thought it must be irresistable.

Having driven a manual R and a 230 ps GTi DSG back to back on Saturday in wet weather, on the same roads I thought it was an ideal test of usability, so here are my thoughts, given I havent driven a Mk7 Golf for nearly a year now so it was a pretty unbiased comparison -

Looks

Definitely prefer the Gti, no question.  I prefer the wheels, dont like the R body kit, prefer the colours on the GTi, especially Carbon Grey which I test drove and was what I ordered before.  I dont think the R offers anything visually that the GTi doesn't unless you start ticking expensive options.  I am not really that into the 19 inch wheels on the R to be honest but think they look better than the 18s


Performance

Yes no question the R is quicker in traffic light grand prix or on most back roads especially in the wet.  It was amazingly rapid on wet B roads.  However, I had real problems trying to unstick the Gti PP on the same roads with my foot to the floor, and bear in mind it was wet.  I dont think there is a huge torque difference and given I am sure the R is a touch heavier due to the 4wd, above 30mph on boost, I really didn't feel there was much in it, not enough to bother me thats for sure.  I would say a good driver in a 230 Gti with DSG would be hard pushed to not keep up with an R - at least in the "real world", maybe less on a track.  At the end of the day you can gear a car to make a quick 0-60 quite easily but torque and weight govern in gear acceleration and the PP Gti feels very rapid.

One point regarding DSG,  I am a purist and love manual gearboxes.  I actually didnt like the manual in the R, because with all that power it was quite jerky on full throttle change.  Personally I would go for DSG if I was buying an R, and manual in a GTi.  That said the DSG is brilliant and I would definitely consider it in a GTi, especially given my gf has a habit of not changing up from 3rd .. 

As for the noise, that actually annoyed me in the R because I knew it was fake/boring/flat.  If you can't make an engine with charisma then dont try and fake it.  My 5 Cyl Fiat Coupe blows it (and any 4 cylinder) away for engine sound.  I think you can turn that gimic off I read, which I would definitely do.  Its a sad fact of downsizing I guess that 4 cyl turbo is the norm, 5 and 6 cyl cars are few and far between now but sound so much better.

Handling

The R is amazingly rapid in wet conditions.  I was flat out on some greasy B roads and it really is awesome in those conditions I think any supercar would struggle to keep up.  That said my TT TDI Q would be quicker than an M 135i in the same wet conditions because the 4WD just gives you confidence, no getting away from that.  The R rides a bit harder I think - guessing it sits 10mm lower and maybe stiffer settings ?  It felt like it anyway to me.  Without 4WD though I thought the Gti PP was also amazing, given it was wet, I really hardly got any wheelspin at full foot to the floor acceleration and it inspired nearly as much confidence.  The DSG also probably made up for a bitof the acceleration shortfall v the manual R.


Value

On paper there is only maybe £3k or so between them at base spec, but I think the difference is you need some must have options on the R that arent essential on the GTi - 19 inch alloys (£900 ?) , as I dont think the 18s look great (compared to GTi std alloys).  I think the R cloth seats look really low rent in a £30k car so that would mean heated leather - (£2k ?).  DSG for me would be essential so thats another £x.  No sat nav on a £35k car ?  Not likely so thats at least another £750 for basic Nav.  Whereas on the GTi I would be very very happy with std alloys and cloth seats and a manual gearbox there is a hefty difference in price.  I am pretty confident I can get a really good deal on a GTi right now - at least £1000 discount more than an R so I am sure the net price in my "ideally" specced car is going to be something like £5k difference minimum. 

I know a lot of people will say yea its only £5k difference but I like to run a summer / weekend toy and have my Fiat Coupe Turbo for that and you can buy and maintain such a car for 5 years for £5k and I would absolutely have a GTi PP and keep my Fiat rather than just have the R from a cost point of view.

Fuel costs.. horses for courses I guess the R averaged 26 when I had it.  I guess the GTi would be 5-6 MPG better but hey ho.


Interior

Not a lot in it really apart from blue v red and as said, I dont like the R cloth seats so I would have to spec leather.  VAG annoy me in this respect, they do it with Audi too and price the base 3 dr manual car just at the right price and they know fine well that there are certain must have options.  I dont think it is coincidence they clearly put their imagination away when styling the standard cloth R seats because most people speccing a new 30k car will want leather etc etc.  They could easily have made really nice Alcantara & half leather or cloth std seats like on the Mk2 TT,  that everyone loved and would spec, but they have clearly done this to keep base price low and get you in the showroom..

You also have to compare to non Golf's.  At the end of the day you can go not too crazy and spec a Golf R up to well over £35k.  Personally I just keep telling myself its too much "for a Golf" no matter how good / effective it is

Image

Tricky one, dont want to offend anyone here..  I think the GTi is more subtle and in the right colours nicely flies under the radar.  I think the 4 exhausts on the R shout a bit too loud and I had white van man up my backside in the R when I was driving it..  No question the R is getting great test reviews and the reason i went to drive one was that I was sold on it after reading all of these reviews.  The R is no doubt getting a great image with all the car mag reviews, but its just personal taste but I prefer the GTi looks and image.


Overall

First of all, anyone who has an R or is waiting for one, I am sure you will love it and I can totally get it why anyone would order and R.  Amazing all weather pace, 4wd, VW build etc etc. it ticks loads of boxes.  I think though that the GTi delivers a huge % of that, in a better looking package.  I think on the used market, the GTi may well have a wider following due to the more iconic image of the GTI badge.  If you only want to run one car then the R is very compelling, but then pretty much every argument you have for the R is equally valid for the GTi, just with 70 BHP less and no 4wd and a small amount but not masses more torque.  Is that enough ?  Not for me.  Now if the R had a Turbo V6 or 5 Cyl and 4wd, you are then making the car quite different, like with the Mk5 GTi v R32.  Its pretty sad to say but when I got back in my 15 year old Fiat Coupe and drove off the noise brought much more of a smile to may face than either of the 4 cyl cars.  Blame the emissions police for that I guess..

Something, and I cant really put my finger on it, left me a bit cold with the R, a bit like it was conceived and driven by the marketing men more than anything else..  It kind of reminded me why I ordered a PP GTi instead of an M135i - that car was just as quick as an R on the right day, but I just felt I couldnt use all the performance that much of the time, always worrying about police traps etc etc.  The amount of time I would really use the difference felt so minimal, when you throw in the extra cost and the fact I genuinely preferred the looks of the GTi, the fact it rides just a bit more comfy, it would be my choice. 

I might have a tinge of jealousy if one time in my life I just happened to be next to an R at the traffic lights, but I leave you with this thought... I think it just comes down to price, preference of looks and if you want a really good all rounder or something a touch more hardcore.  Personally I could see me "respecting" the R but loving the GTi.... and if I had 30k only to spend, I would absolutely every day of the year buy a 1 year old GTi PP and an E46 BMW M3 (or something similar with more than 4 cylinders) than just have an R. 

I think both the GTi and R are awesome all round, practical performance cars though.  Before I drove them both, I thought the GTis biggest problem in the car market was the R, given the reviews and hard stats, but having driven them, I came away kind of thinking the R's biggest problem is the GTi.. because it is such a good all rounder.. looks better and costs less.

Hope that didnt offend anyone ! 

[am1w]

Enjoyable reading a nearly total eulogy of the 7GTI PP. I am sure it will make many a 7GTI owner feel vindicated with their purchase especially in the face of the 7R's universally accepted daunting superiority.

I felt there was no comparison when I drove the two back to back and I chose the one that has remained head and shoulders above all the competition and it is not the 7GTI PP. Strange you were not dazzled by the 7R magic.

[monkeyhanger]

I think that as a whole the MK7 feels a bit sterile. It is much faster than it feels, maybe it is too polished for me, but i've been VW fan for a very long time, jump from MK6 to MK7 has seen by far the biggest refinement jump between the MKs.

I had far more fun with my 170TDI Scirocco than I have with my MK7 GTD. I have chased the R because it's genuinely rapid, I might get a better sense of performance despite the polished edges.

I have to disagree about the need to spec an R up highly vs a GTI. Is £27k really the threshold beyond which expensive options like 19" wheels, Satnav and leather become essential? The R has everything I want as standard (as did the GTD), An R is still a Golf, I don't need it to feel like a £45k car. To some the GTD and GTI Tartan do not appeal, some get leather purely to not have the Tartan, just as some may not like the R seats. The seats in all 3 performance Golfs let down the interior IMO, the MK6 set had nicer looking seats.

[gjf]

I agree with many of the points in the original post except for the performance! Having driven a number of different R's and GTI's recently the acceleration in the R is miles ahead of the GTI.

[drisser]

but only if you are hammering both flat out to the max.. Then for sure you feel the difference, And it's not that often you get the chance to max them out unfortunately..

That was really my main point you can't deny the R is quicker in any road in any condition, but too often the traffic, the police,or something else means you can't wring out 100% of the performance..

I have to say though, at one point I had to scoot past 3 cars and in the wet its an awesome overtaking tool, absolutely amazing. 

But for £10k, so is a mk 5 golf R32 that sounds a lot better ? So is a new S3 that has a better GFV than the R now.  But don't get me wrong i am not slagging the R off, it's a great car

[Booth11]

Modern cars have a detachment which belies the true performance of the car, and to an extent this is true of both these cars but perhaps marginally more evident in the R than the GTI PP.  If you look beyond this the differences become apparent.

Everyone justifies their own choice accordingly so as interesting as reviews like this are, they have limited value.  I recall when the mk7 R first came out, a fair few on here vehemently justifying (ultimately to themselves) their choice of the GTI/GTD, only to ditch it at the altar and make off with the R temptress

[wigit]

have to admit having been in rural Kent the last couple of days loved the 4wd of the R as so sure footed

[am1w]

I have compared the 7R to the A45 AMG, BMW135i, S3 Sportback and 7GTI PP. The 7R was without doubt the best drivers car followed very, very closely by the M135i, then came the S3 Sportback, then the A45 AMG and last was the 7GTI PP. All cars had Auto/DSG gearboxes.

The A45 AMG was mentally fast but a blunt instrument; plus the dashboard looked horrid. I could not believe how one dimensional the S3 felt compared to the 7R. However, the Audi interior was truly stunning but it looked like a bread van or a truncated hearse. The 7GTI PP was a real slow coach in comparison, not exciting enough and therefore came last in my rankings.

[RobS23GTI]

I think there is a lot of "its the great new thing" syndrome, with the R, ala M135i last year. Great mag reviews, universal aclaim and cheap lease deals. It will wear off though when the civic or something else comes out as is the way of the world.
I have been guilty of buying the latest thing, twice last year with the M135i and the Fiesta ST, but i got bored with them quicker than the length of time I've had the GTI. Also had an R on order pre-GTI and glad i changed, although it is an amazing car.

As MH alludes to, the R is a great financial proposition and it is better value than the GTI hands down.

Am1w - your posting style seems very similar to someone who got themselves banned from the baby bmw forum for being a bit of a pillock. Maybe its just coincidence!

[Booth11]

have to admit having been in rural Kent the last couple of days loved the 4wd of the R as so sure footed

Good to hear that