Golf R and Gti PP back to back test drive

[Mr Savage]

Just making an observation which you didn't refute, so I can't be far off. Didn't take you long to get banned on baby bmw after getting a lot of members backs up.
GTI and R are both great in their own way. As mentioned, I changed my order from an R...

Wrong. Never had a baby BMW and not familiar with that forum. Anyway, take a chill pill and enjoy your 2W FWD 7GTI.

AM1W if I were you then I wouldn't come here and rub people up the wrong way.

I wasn't going to say anything but since you're in debate with other forum members then I'll not hold back either.

Firstly it's really annoying that you write 7 infront of GTI and R everytime. We are in the Mk7 section of the forum in a thread talking about the Mk7 GTI and R. We know you're refering to the "7" GTI and r.

Secondly, commenting that the OP should post his review on the R forum to see their reaction is dumb. Obviously the people on the R forum are going to be biased towards the R, it might be something to do with the fact they all drive one...

Thirdly, I think the review is a good and fair one. I would agree that the R is not "miles ahead" of the GTI. It is quicker yes, hugely? No. I'm not going to open another can of worms on this anyway. If we wanted to drive an R we would buy one, if we want to drive a GTI we buy that. Both are great cars and neither are "miles ahead" of the other in any way, shape or form.

[am1w]

Monsieur Savage:

(1) I will drop the Heavenly 7.
(2) I will always maintain that the R is the better car for my purpose.
(3) There was no intention to rub anyone the wrong way. In fact, I felt I was very restrained. There is more sensitivity here than expected. Just shows the extreme love and protection people show for their particular grown-up perambulators.
(4) I agree that the R, the GTI & (let's not forget) the GTD are good cars.
(5) I felt it would be very educational and interesting for the OP to post his excellent comparative review on the R Forum and fly the flag for the GTI.

[kenny.c]

Hi all

have been away from the forum for a bit but back in the fold for a possible GTi again soon.   With all the chatter and road tests about the R being amazing I set up a 2 hour test drive of an R this weekend to see what I thought.

Having got used to Quattro in my TT I do certainly appreciate 4wd and with the impression of the GTi (220) I test drove before I thought it must be irresistable.

Having driven a manual R and a 230 ps GTi DSG back to back on Saturday in wet weather, on the same roads I thought it was an ideal test of usability, so here are my thoughts, given I havent driven a Mk7 Golf for nearly a year now so it was a pretty unbiased comparison -

Looks

Definitely prefer the Gti, no question.  I prefer the wheels, dont like the R body kit, prefer the colours on the GTi, especially Carbon Grey which I test drove and was what I ordered before.  I dont think the R offers anything visually that the GTi doesn't unless you start ticking expensive options.  I am not really that into the 19 inch wheels on the R to be honest but think they look better than the 18s


Performance

Yes no question the R is quicker in traffic light grand prix or on most back roads especially in the wet.  It was amazingly rapid on wet B roads.  However, I had real problems trying to unstick the Gti PP on the same roads with my foot to the floor, and bear in mind it was wet.  I dont think there is a huge torque difference and given I am sure the R is a touch heavier due to the 4wd, above 30mph on boost, I really didn't feel there was much in it, not enough to bother me thats for sure.  I would say a good driver in a 230 Gti with DSG would be hard pushed to not keep up with an R - at least in the "real world", maybe less on a track.  At the end of the day you can gear a car to make a quick 0-60 quite easily but torque and weight govern in gear acceleration and the PP Gti feels very rapid.

One point regarding DSG,  I am a purist and love manual gearboxes.  I actually didnt like the manual in the R, because with all that power it was quite jerky on full throttle change.  Personally I would go for DSG if I was buying an R, and manual in a GTi.  That said the DSG is brilliant and I would definitely consider it in a GTi, especially given my gf has a habit of not changing up from 3rd .. 

As for the noise, that actually annoyed me in the R because I knew it was fake/boring/flat.  If you can't make an engine with charisma then dont try and fake it.  My 5 Cyl Fiat Coupe blows it (and any 4 cylinder) away for engine sound.  I think you can turn that gimic off I read, which I would definitely do.  Its a sad fact of downsizing I guess that 4 cyl turbo is the norm, 5 and 6 cyl cars are few and far between now but sound so much better.

Handling

The R is amazingly rapid in wet conditions.  I was flat out on some greasy B roads and it really is awesome in those conditions I think any supercar would struggle to keep up.  That said my TT TDI Q would be quicker than an M 135i in the same wet conditions because the 4WD just gives you confidence, no getting away from that.  The R rides a bit harder I think - guessing it sits 10mm lower and maybe stiffer settings ?  It felt like it anyway to me.  Without 4WD though I thought the Gti PP was also amazing, given it was wet, I really hardly got any wheelspin at full foot to the floor acceleration and it inspired nearly as much confidence.  The DSG also probably made up for a bitof the acceleration shortfall v the manual R.


Value

On paper there is only maybe £3k or so between them at base spec, but I think the difference is you need some must have options on the R that arent essential on the GTi - 19 inch alloys (£900 ?) , as I dont think the 18s look great (compared to GTi std alloys).  I think the R cloth seats look really low rent in a £30k car so that would mean heated leather - (£2k ?).  DSG for me would be essential so thats another £x.  No sat nav on a £35k car ?  Not likely so thats at least another £750 for basic Nav.  Whereas on the GTi I would be very very happy with std alloys and cloth seats and a manual gearbox there is a hefty difference in price.  I am pretty confident I can get a really good deal on a GTi right now - at least £1000 discount more than an R so I am sure the net price in my "ideally" specced car is going to be something like £5k difference minimum. 

I know a lot of people will say yea its only £5k difference but I like to run a summer / weekend toy and have my Fiat Coupe Turbo for that and you can buy and maintain such a car for 5 years for £5k and I would absolutely have a GTi PP and keep my Fiat rather than just have the R from a cost point of view.

Fuel costs.. horses for courses I guess the R averaged 26 when I had it.  I guess the GTi would be 5-6 MPG better but hey ho.


Interior

Not a lot in it really apart from blue v red and as said, I dont like the R cloth seats so I would have to spec leather.  VAG annoy me in this respect, they do it with Audi too and price the base 3 dr manual car just at the right price and they know fine well that there are certain must have options.  I dont think it is coincidence they clearly put their imagination away when styling the standard cloth R seats because most people speccing a new 30k car will want leather etc etc.  They could easily have made really nice Alcantara & half leather or cloth std seats like on the Mk2 TT,  that everyone loved and would spec, but they have clearly done this to keep base price low and get you in the showroom..

You also have to compare to non Golf's.  At the end of the day you can go not too crazy and spec a Golf R up to well over £35k.  Personally I just keep telling myself its too much "for a Golf" no matter how good / effective it is

Image

Tricky one, dont want to offend anyone here..  I think the GTi is more subtle and in the right colours nicely flies under the radar.  I think the 4 exhausts on the R shout a bit too loud and I had white van man up my backside in the R when I was driving it..  No question the R is getting great test reviews and the reason i went to drive one was that I was sold on it after reading all of these reviews.  The R is no doubt getting a great image with all the car mag reviews, but its just personal taste but I prefer the GTi looks and image.


Overall

First of all, anyone who has an R or is waiting for one, I am sure you will love it and I can totally get it why anyone would order and R.  Amazing all weather pace, 4wd, VW build etc etc. it ticks loads of boxes.  I think though that the GTi delivers a huge % of that, in a better looking package.  I think on the used market, the GTi may well have a wider following due to the more iconic image of the GTI badge.  If you only want to run one car then the R is very compelling, but then pretty much every argument you have for the R is equally valid for the GTi, just with 70 BHP less and no 4wd and a small amount but not masses more torque.  Is that enough ?  Not for me.  Now if the R had a Turbo V6 or 5 Cyl and 4wd, you are then making the car quite different, like with the Mk5 GTi v R32.  Its pretty sad to say but when I got back in my 15 year old Fiat Coupe and drove off the noise brought much more of a smile to may face than either of the 4 cyl cars.  Blame the emissions police for that I guess..

Something, and I cant really put my finger on it, left me a bit cold with the R, a bit like it was conceived and driven by the marketing men more than anything else..  It kind of reminded me why I ordered a PP GTi instead of an M135i - that car was just as quick as an R on the right day, but I just felt I couldnt use all the performance that much of the time, always worrying about police traps etc etc.  The amount of time I would really use the difference felt so minimal, when you throw in the extra cost and the fact I genuinely preferred the looks of the GTi, the fact it rides just a bit more comfy, it would be my choice. 

I might have a tinge of jealousy if one time in my life I just happened to be next to an R at the traffic lights, but I leave you with this thought... I think it just comes down to price, preference of looks and if you want a really good all rounder or something a touch more hardcore.  Personally I could see me "respecting" the R but loving the GTi.... and if I had 30k only to spend, I would absolutely every day of the year buy a 1 year old GTi PP and an E46 BMW M3 (or something similar with more than 4 cylinders) than just have an R. 

I think both the GTi and R are awesome all round, practical performance cars though.  Before I drove them both, I thought the GTis biggest problem in the car market was the R, given the reviews and hard stats, but having driven them, I came away kind of thinking the R's biggest problem is the GTi.. because it is such a good all rounder.. looks better and costs less.

Hope that didnt offend anyone !

Bet you regret posting this now....LOL.....I thought it was a great write up...thanks for your effort.

[ajmoir36]

I also thought it was a good write up as I find myself contemplating the change to a GTI PP or mk7 R, my head says the mk6 R will be good enough mind.

[Poached]

MK6 R was looking like an over priced option relative to the 7R.

It is still based on the MK5 whereas the MK7 gives you a new platform whichever vehicle you choose.

[monkeyhanger]

MK6 R was looking like an over priced option relative to the 7R.

It is still based on the MK5 whereas the MK7 gives you a new platform whichever vehicle you choose.

The 7R is far better equipped, more safety kit for lower insurance premiums and MQB handles far better than the old platform. If you can stretch to it the 7 is looking a far better proposition.

[ajmoir36]

I really want a mk7 R but the cost basically 30k is really putting me off have been looking at the Broadspeeds Orange cars e.t.c.

How I see it at the moment:
My car if I am lucky nearly 5 year old (apr 15) 78k on the clock 10k trade?

All used:
mk6 R low mileage 12 plate - 18-22K
mk7 PP GTI - 23-27k
mk7 R - 29-33k

Not sure I want to spend 20k to change.

I have to admit a good deal on a used (nearly new) GTI PP interests me if I could do it for 12k or something.

[am1w]

ajmoir36:

If you can stretch to a used/new 7R it would be worth it IMO. Have you also considered a Mk7 GTD?
You could also check with Carcow as they seem to source the best deals for VAG cars.

Two things to consider: the 7R has a smaller boot and has a bit of a thirst.

Best of luck in your quest. Whichever Mk7 performance Golf you end up with, you will be delighted.

[monkeyhanger]

ajmoir36: If you're looking to trade for a MK7, i'd ask myself why - the performance increases, the better ride/handling or the standard kit?

If you trade in a MK6 GTD for a MK7 GTD, the MK7 won't feel much faster (if at all), the refinement does take the edge of the perception of performance even though it will drive nicer. Going petrol to GTI/R is going to feel more different, different way of driving (although not as different as previous petrol variants are, considering the huge jump in torque on the GTI/R to almost GTD levels.

Your car is now old enough to be affordable to a great many people, but its also old enough for the VW dealerships not to be too interested in having it on their used forecourt - it may well be farmed out to auction. With all that in mind, you might get a very poor p/x price and you'd probably get more for it privately, and it shouldn't be as hard to sell privately as say an 18 month old MK7 GTI/GTD.

Before you do anything else you need to find out what the going rate for your current car is when sold privately and traded in (you might get less than £10k offered in p/x). If you sell privately you're in a far better position to chase broker sized discounts on a new one, or maybe you can scour the net for some good early MK7s - a fair few GTIs and GTDs are getting chopped in for Rs right now.

[ajmoir36]

The reason I am considering the change is I am being made redundant and my 56 mile commute changes to a 12 mile comes and its the first time I dont need a diesel anymore.