2.016v or VR6 need opinions...

[tshirt2k]

Who said use emerald? You can use many others. Take your pick.

If you took note of what has been said.

An ABF correctly calibrated with standalone management can produce good results without cams, ITB's etc. This has been tested and proven. Not Internet hype or rumours.

If you added any other mods, like headwork, cams etc, you would then have the ability to optimise the mapping to suit.

If they wont sell it, there are others that you can use. But you have to know what you are doing with them to get results.

[Ess_Three]

An ABF correctly calibrated with standalone management can produce good results without cams, ITB's etc. This has been tested and proven. Not Internet hype or rumours.

If you added any other mods, like headwork, cams etc, you would then have the ability to optimise the mapping to suit.

In my experience, standalone management won't give you any more than a properly optimised Digifant 3.2 ECU will - certainly on a relatively mildly tuned engine - it just makes it a whole lot easier to map!
There aren't too many people who can/will custom map Digifant 3.2 nowadays.

It's once you go beyond the standard ABF set-up that standalone becomes invaluable.

[Ess_Three]

Emerald direct you to a guy in Gloucestershire that will only sell you the ECU with a set of ITB's.

Odd...they were happy to sell me a base ECU kit, direct from Emerald, and without ITBs.

[WOLF R]

Pretty much anything not original equipment.

Emerald, DTA, Megasquirt, AEM, Omex  etc.

Well I have had extensive correspondence with Emerald and DTA and neither of them recommend use of there ECU's without extensive modifications.

Why are they "not recommended" and what level of modifications would then justify the use of these systems.
Else I struggle to understand what point you are attempting to portray.
Bare in mind I have calibrated all of the above (and the rest) and do not see a concern with them, except a difference in price, when new.

Ported head, high lift cams, ITB's and Tube exhaust manifold.
I was saying that from what I had been told by those ECU people that unless you did the above mods they would not recommend the use of their ECU's.
Now if you can tell me they are giving me duff information about their own products.......

I speak to the good people at Emerald regualry on their products, and they have never given me "duff" infomation be it Leoni, Karl or Dave. And it does not matter if it is a VAG product or a Jap.
It could come down to cost. On a std car with high levels of vacuum on idle the cost of a new ECU ~£550-600 plus map sensor, loom integration, plus mapping/dyno time, to deliver the improved drive feel may not be justifiable.
Or if the vehicle has a requirement for a  3 way catalyst (which needs lambda control to regulate between 14.1-15.0 AFR), this could be another cause for your response.

In terms of the system and delivering a calibration from a MD3K, K3 or K6 running a OE ABF motor, not a problem with map compensation. It can also be done on alpha_n mode but the some load sites would not follow the actual manifold filling for a given air density.
It has been done before, in fact in the base tables there is a VW16v base cal that was created on a vehicle that belonged to one of my friends.
If the powertrain is std and the ECU can work in some speed density arrangement, I can deliver the same calibration philosophy on an emerald system as I would on a DTA S or EXP series, OMEX 600 and Megasquirt V3x
If the engine was modified where there was little manifold vacuum, as in the case of big cams and throttles, then yes the default alpha-N algorithm can be used, making the ECU hardware cheaper (no map sensor is required).

I have also used Emerald products on STD R32 NASP motors with no issuses, including intake VVT control, once again with map compensation, so semi speed density.
The point is they can work very well on "pretty much OEM powertrains" 

[WOLF R]

An ABF correctly calibrated with standalone management can produce good results without cams, ITB's etc. This has been tested and proven. Not Internet hype or rumours.

If you added any other mods, like headwork, cams etc, you would then have the ability to optimise the mapping to suit.

In my experience, standalone management won't give you any more than a properly optimised Digifant 3.2 ECU will - certainly on a relatively mildly tuned engine - it just makes it a whole lot easier to map!
There aren't too many people who can/will custom map Digifant 3.2 nowadays.

It's once you go beyond the standard ABF set-up that standalone becomes invaluable.

I agree Glen.

At the time, I had not worked out how the Digifant 3.X binary actually worked, so as I was reasonalbly skilled in Electronics, the megasquirt was the fastest route to delivering a custom calibration to see what the engine could do as a base.
However now as I have been playing with the OE controller and I already establish a character from the base engine from all the various experiements, it is quite easy for me to tweak the digifant to deliver the same.
I still like my standalone as you can switch from plenum to throttles quite quickly. In fact my throttles systems are now very portable with a SEM. Just bolt on the hardwareand a quick cal change and off you go...but that is enough for now 

[tshirt2k]

An ABF correctly calibrated with standalone management can produce good results without cams, ITB's etc. This has been tested and proven. Not Internet hype or rumours.

If you added any other mods, like headwork, cams etc, you would then have the ability to optimise the mapping to suit.

There aren't too many people who can/will custom map Digifant 3.2 nowadays.

It's once you go beyond the standard ABF set-up that standalone becomes invaluable.

This was my point. Plus the diy enthusiast won't have the equipment or the chance to get involved themselves using digifant and each mod would then have to be paid for to be mapped again.

It can be done cheaper by building a Megasquirt ECU but takes a type of person who is willing to put the work in to find out how it works and tweak (and tweak)until you're close, then tweak some more.

Else buy a ready made one from companies mentioned previously

[Len]

I was looking at Emerald because they have 3 or 5 (cant be assed to find the email) different maps which you could switch within the car. One of which was supposedly an MOT map, but when I pressed them on this they wouldnt guarantee that it would pass emissions on that map.

tshirt - you are making claims I just wanted you to come and say exactly how it can be done, not some wishy washy statement which is of no help to anyone.
Please tell me which "standalone", what other mods have to be done and which Rolling Road the produced those figures.

[tshirt2k]

I was looking at Emerald because they have 3 or 5 (cant be assed to find the email) different maps which you could switch within the car. One of which was supposedly an MOT map, but when I pressed them on this they wouldnt guarantee that it would pass emissions on that map.

tshirt - you are making claims I just wanted you to come and say exactly how it can be done, not some wishy washy statement which is of no help to anyone.
Please tell me which "standalone", what other mods have to be done and which Rolling Road the produced those figures.

It's not a claim, it's a fact. Many on CGTI have used Megasquirt, but as said you can use many other brands to achieve the same result.

You don't necessarily need an MOT map, as i have passed an MOT with the same map. It just has to be tuned to give correct emissions, regarding CO% and HC etc around the idle & fast idle parts of the map. I am using a catalytic Converter too.

If you can't do the research here are some links. Dyno was a Dyno Dynamics (heartbreaker)

link 1

link 2

link 3 Same car as in link 2 but with more mapping

I have chosen 2 cars that have a standard engine running a plenum, to show what is possible.

[Len]

Awful lot to digest there!

Any chance you could PM Boneybradley with the definitive info so he can update his TUNING thread up in the info section?

[Len]

Just looked at the Megasquirt website!

Hmmmmm using a laptop while you drive?
Thats a very good idea!